119 réponses à ce sujet

[xvader]

Greetings Devs.

 

Thank you for making this game happen.

 

I play DA:O extensively on PC. 5 playthroughs with differently specced chars. Fantastic game.

After reading the reviews and reception of DA:2, I chose to buy it used and play it on console. 1 full playthrough. While the critics got a lot of points right, I think the game was better than the reception it got. While it was very different from Origins especially from a combat perspective the key thing was that I still had fun. However I do think it is true that DA:2 benefited and took advantage too much from all the "good will" created by DA:O.  I think that a lot of the player pase felt a bit mislead prior to release and the rest. as we know, is history.

 

I bring this up because it is pertinent to what I am about to say. When DA:I was announced I had a choice to make. That choice was: which platform do I want to play this game in.  The choice wasnt easy, well, because consoles are much competitive now compared to PC performance wise, even though they still fall behind the high'ish end systems. I had also play DA on both platforms and while I enjoyed Origins considerably more, I still had fun playing DA:2 on console.

 

Then Bioware makes this announcement which was important to me. http://www.videogame...nquisition.html

 

The posted link said that DA:I lead platform was going to be the PC.  This is what I needed to make my choice. So I chose to buy and play this game based on the plaftform that it was going be the "lead" one. 

 

Then after release, I, and probably lots of us that also bought the game based on the lead platform, evidently got something very very very wrong.

 

While PC was the lead platform for development (whatever that means) it evidently wasnt the lead platform for the control scheme part of the development process.  Everyone that has a PC and has resorted to buying or connecting a gamepad to play this game understands this. The game just plays better with a console control scheme (gamepad).

 

While I am having fun the game, and like it very much, I honestly have to say from the bottom of the most sencere feedback you can get from a fan, is that playing with mouse and keyboard as it was released IS dimishing the experience for me. Only slightly, but is.

 

Next time, I would suggest the devs, that when they announced that PC is the lead platform at some point before release they should also have clarified that the control scheme was going to be optimized for gamepad usage.  I think this would have prevented a lot of players feeling misguided or mislead by the announcement in the link. It would also would have prevented a lot of the feedback you are having regarding this topic. 

 

So either a clarification before release I think  was in order or simply release the game (slight delay if needed) with a fully customizable kb + m experience as a any normal player would conclude and expect after reading that "PC is the lead platform for DA:I". It is just not up to par and sadly it is sligthly dimishing my experience as a gamer.

 

Thanks again for this game. It is great. And looks beautiful. Grats on metascore.

 

xvader

 

PS.

I know you are getting a lot of feedback on this issue and more importantly have acknowledge it. Pretty please make the fixes happen fast!

[Linkenski]

I just flat out don't buy Bioware's statement that DA:I was developed with PC as lead-platform when we have tons of cinematic moments that can't go above 30fps without hax and the control scheme is made for console. There's also no run-walk toggle on PC I've heard.

 

Clearly they didn't design it with M&K in mind at the very least.

 

Just saying, Bioware. You have millions of fans, and those are millions of fans who are bound to detect your bullshit whenever you spewl it, at least sooner or later. Every good developer knows how to sell their games with excessive marketing campaigns and E3 demos and whatnot, but not every developer makes untrue statments that might as well not have been said to fool their audiences.

 

Has Bioware not learned ANYTHING from their ME3 and DA2 fiascos? Is it just EA riding them like crazy?

[Twinklesz]

The video also reveals that the combat of the game was “specifically” designed for PC, and you will notice that the camera and navigation options are very PC friendly.

 

I had hoped they changed there marketing tactics after Mass effect 3 to be honest, theres embellishing and then theres flat out lying. Its not like they didn't have time to focus on both consoles and PC, 4 years development time right? 

[Mykel54]

Lead them or Fall.

[xvader]

I was just very confused when I started to play this game with the kb + m. It wasn't really like Origins (my expectation), wasnt really like Skyrim, more like the Witcher 2, but not as good or as friendly or as customizable as the Witcher 2 (admitedly iirc TW:2 was patched to allow for even more kb + m customization).

 

In any case, this game fell short, compared to the "other RPG's" out there considering that I based my buying decision on the "lead platform".

 

It's like saying that the lead platform was going to be console and then having the console players find out after release that the move keys are not the left+right thumbs but the arrow keys.  That there is no auto attack, that you can only attack using the triggers and that out of the 4 frontal buttons (square, circle, x, triangle) you can only customize the triangle. Oh yea, and that the tactical camera works much better and smoother with kb + m.

 

How many mouse buttons are even allowed to customize? My mouse has 10 buttons total. I think 8 are going to waste which is a shame.

[xvader]

Twinklesz - yea, good points.

[Gaylonn]

*sigh*

 

Am I the only one that has realized over the past few years of game design that "control" schemes for just about every genre of game have been migrating to "controller" style?  The amount of $$ that publishers make from console sales (especially now when they are still publishing for current and last gen) far exceed what they get from PC sales so it stands to reason the direction they take.

 

PC being lead system means just that it was the system the the  game and all its components was designed/developed/coded on....most likely their development tools and such were on a PC.   I have played more games on my PC using a controller in he past few years than ever....(I also have less hand fatigue Shadows of Mordor, DA:I.   Diablo 3 for me had the odd distinction that I believe the console version is better.  Controller is no longer a "console world only" input device.

 

I have played DA:I on both my PC with just about everything on MAX/Ultra and on my XBOX One.  Visually speaking the PC is a clear winner....control wise its a matter of what works best given the style of the game and that to me that is controller regardless of it being PC or not.   The style of control is simply a sign of the times not an indicator that its was designed for consoles. 

[Gaylonn]

 

How many mouse buttons are even allowed to customize? My mouse has 10 buttons total. I think 8 are going to waste which is a shame.

 

I was able to bind whatever I wanted using my mouse's software.  In game map what key I want to do what....then in the mouse software have whatever mouse button to issue that key.   i.e Button 7 to issue 'V', etc.

[xvader]

Gaylonn - I think you are right, even if they won't admit to it. However, it doesn't defeat the main point. I dont think there is an "excuse" for releasing the game with the prohibitive limited kb + m customization options this was was released with. It also doesnt defeat the point that a clarification prior to release was in order. The contrary is "setting themselves up" for negative feedback as it currently is happening regarding PC controls. I don't anyone wanted this.  Also means that a lot of players were mislead into thinking that developing using PC as lead platform also meant having a kb + m experience compatible with that development goal. 

 

Thankfully, you were prepared and wasn't surprised by it. I wasn't. :-(

[Munktor]

I'm actually amazed that people still don't realize that nearly all developers (barring those that are PC exclusive development companies) make games with console in mind first.

 

The sheer # of console sales vs pc sales is indicative of the market trend, as well the direction the market will continue to go.

 

PC master race will continue to die...sad, as I began as a PC gamer 15 years ago...but now, it's clear to me which hardware games are optimized for, and honestly it shows with every new release.

 

#sadbuttrue

[xvader]

I have a logitech, but didnt install the software due to very limited HD space atm! I could try that, thanks, but this should have been doable in-game without depending on mouse manufacturers software.

[Gaylonn]

I have a logitech, but didnt install the software due to very limited HD space atm! I could try that, thanks, but this should have been doable in-game without depending on mouse manufacturers software.

 

Not familiar with Logitech. I have a Razor and the HD footprint for the software is tiny tiny.

[Harlot]

I'm actually amazed that people still don't realize that nearly all developers (barring those that are PC exclusive development companies) make games with console in mind first.

 

The sheer # of console sales vs pc sales is indicative of the market trend, as well the direction the market will continue to go.

 

PC master race will continue to die...sad, as I began as a PC gamer 15 years ago...but now, it's clear to me which hardware games are optimized for, and honestly it shows with every new release.

 

#sadbuttrue

Over 75 million Steam users say otherwise. But yeah. Console is an easier platform to develop for. And DA Inquisition's launch certainly doesn't seem like these past 4 years were spent with providing best possible PC experience in mind. Not really surprising but still sad, especially given the vid made by BioWare devs about being "PC gamers at heart".

[xvader]

Munktor,  you are on Gaylonn track which I actually agree with. Sadly, but I do. However, this is not what happened to me based on what the developer said.

 

That is why I said in the original post, that evidently (and supporting your position) me and a lot others got it all wrong.  Maybe that's Bioware way of saying: "you should have known better even after I said that PC was lead platform!!"  But that would be me making assumptions.

 

I however decided to choose my platform based with the most "normal and logical" assumption I could make. And that was that a game which has the PC as lead platform would have the full feature of controls that the PC gamer can come to expect from a game that is designed with PC as lead platform.  I was wrong. My fault. But I as consumer I still felt mislead.

 

In any scenario, however, the kb + m release functionality is questionable under any circumstance and is detracting from my experience while I try to adjust to this otherwise great game.

[joejccva71]

With all due respect to the OP, PC is not the master race in the gaming industry anymore, consoles are.  It's something that you can fight about, create "dear devs" posts, and bicker as much you like but money talks. 

 

Console gaming industry > PC gaming industry as far as the money goes and it's not even close.  You'd be quite surprised just how much money cashflow the console gaming industry does over the PC.  It's staggering.

 

You either need to get on board with this gameplan or miss out on alot of quality games. 

 

I've gotten onboard and now own my PC rig for MMO games and console for almost EVERYTHING else.  Shooters, RPG's, Action games, Sports games, you name it.

 

I was like you and many others a few years ago and I was the biggest PC gaming snob there was and then I finally realized and saw the light.

 

It's just the way it is. 

[Twinklesz]

I'm actually amazed that people still don't realize that nearly all developers (barring those that are PC exclusive development companies) make games with console in mind first.

 

The sheer # of console sales vs pc sales is indicative of the market trend, as well the direction the market will continue to go.

 

PC master race will continue to die...sad, as I began as a PC gamer 15 years ago...but now, it's clear to me which hardware games are optimized for, and honestly it shows with every new release.

 

#sadbuttrue

 

No one is denying consoles sell more games, for the mass market it requires no effort on the end user that is to be expected. The argument however is that Bioware made it a point to stress that the PC version would not be an afterthought, that the controls and mechanics were designed to be PC friendly AS WELL AS consoles - judging from the experience and feedback this was a lie, it seems pretty obvious it was designed purely for a controller. You cant expect your audience to play two preceding games one way, then have no option but to play the 3rd in the opposite, especially after reassuring them you wouldn't have to. (This is to those who say play with controller)

[Akka le Vil]

They simply LIED.

 

It's disgusting, but they get away with it each time (it's not like they didn't already do it, each time it's lots of angry cries, but each times people still buy their products while shouting "it's the last time !"), and the army of fanboys is here to defend them even in these cases, so well...

[xvader]

Hey joe. I didn't say or even assume that "PC is or should be the master race in gaming". Heck, I even agree with the others, and now you, that it is probably not. But please don't derail the thread.

 

This thread is not about console vs PC.

 

For the record, I, like you, also own console and PC. And even played DA:2 on console.

 

This thread is about my feedback about feeling misled by Bioware and that, secondly,that I feel that the kb + m controls and customizations options are subpar when compared to the industry comparable games. I just feel that, regarding the PC controls, Bioware un-characteristically performed subpar by the industry standards.

 

Thankfully, I believe, they are, as we speak, working to improve the kb + m functionality.

[AlanC9]

How does a controller make it better, anyway? I can see not missing better menus, etc., if the clumsiness of the controller means you couldn't use them anyway, but what are the positive advantages of the controller? (Besides not needing a desk, if that's your thing.)

[Spankatola]

With all due respect to the OP, PC is not the master race in the gaming industry anymore, consoles are.  It's something that you can fight about, create "dear devs" posts, and bicker as much you like but money talks. 

 

Console gaming industry > PC gaming industry as far as the money goes and it's not even close.  You'd be quite surprised just how much money cashflow the console gaming industry does over the PC.  It's staggering.

 

You either need to get on board with this gameplan or miss out on alot of quality games. 

 

I've gotten onboard and now own my PC rig for MMO games and console for almost EVERYTHING else.  Shooters, RPG's, Action games, Sports games, you name it.

 

I was like you and many others a few years ago and I was the biggest PC gaming snob there was and then I finally realized and saw the light.

 

It's just the way it is. 

 

Pretty ballsy calling the guy a PC snob. He's not saying it ought to have been more PC oriented because PC's better. He's saying it ought to have been more PC oriented because that's what the devs implied.

[joejccva71]

Hey joe. I didn't say or even assume that "PC is or should be the master race in gaming". Heck, I even agree with the others, and now you, that it is probably not. But please don't derail the thread.

 

This thread is not about console vs PC.

 

For the record, I, like you, also own console and PC. And even played DA:2 on console.

 

This thread is about my feedback about feeling misled by Bioware and that, secondly,that I feel that the kb + m controls and customizations options are subpar when compared to the industry comparable games. I just feel that, regarding the PC controls, Bioware un-characteristically performed subpar by the industry standards.

 

Thankfully, I believe, they are, as we speak, working to improve the kb + m functionality.

 

Derailing the thread was not my intention.  I apologize if it did.

 

But to your point, I think they tried to make the DA:I control system a mix of both DA:O and DA2 so much that it's too combobulated and just doesn't work.  But the thing is, there are many people that don't mind it.  So not sure there.

[AlanC9]

Pretty ballsy calling the guy a PC snob. He's not saying it ought to have been more PC oriented because PC's better. He's saying it ought to have been more PC oriented because that's what the devs implied.

Or that the devs shouldn't have implied it.

[Gaylonn]

How does a controller make it better, anyway? I can see not missing better menus, etc., if the clumsiness of the controller means you couldn't use them anyway, but what are the positive advantages of the controller? (Besides not needing a desk, if that's your thing.)

 

For me the difference are minor.......and it could be just a matter of personal preference.   With few exceptions(precision games) I always find moving characters easier with sticks on a controller.    Triggers seem more logical for "shooting" , etc.

 

For DA:I  for me the biggest difference is with regards to the tac cam..........I just find it much easier/quicker to do what I want with it on a controller........hold trigger to advance time, etc just play out smoother. 

 

Menu, interacting with map, etc Ide rather use a mouse but in DA:I its one or the other. 

 

The stupid loot sonar is just as annoying on controller than keyboard..

 

Auto-attack is not something I care about, miss or wish I had.

 

And last but not least........I suffer way less hand "fatigue" which for a game like this where I lose track of time is rather significant.

[Nithrakis Arcanius]

I just recently gave up on fighting with the PC controls, dug out my old PC XB360 controller, and my enjoyment of the game has increased substantially. The game plays way better with a controller, even when using tactical view (which I'm now using nearly 100% of the time in combat).

 

I'll check out the PC controls again if they fix a lot of the issues but, for now, I'm quite content to play with a controller.

[Dubstob]

 

 

Console gaming industry > PC gaming industry as far as the money goes and it's not even close.

 

You either need to get on board with this gameplan or miss out on alot of quality games. 

 

 

It's just the way it is. 

 

I'm sorry some of this isn't true:

 

-Its hard to believe, but PC actually has more software gaming sales than every console out there. Thats 1 system beating 6. 

http://www.forbes.co...-keep-fighting/Steam/GoG/etc. doesn't release sales so you were probably using boxed figures, which are wrong.  Same goes for advanced gaming hardware :  http://www.vg247.com...t-value-report/

 

-According to metacritic professional reviews (and other sites), PC actually has the most quality games every year.  On top of this, a majority of games on console do end up on PC (small # of exclusives on consoles these days other than Nintendo).  Furthermore, these games are almost always better on PC (according to digital foundry of Eurogamer)....as long as you use a controller for many of them.  Now that is the issue.

 

I Do completely agree with you that the games actual gameplay is more designed for controller/console these days.  And some devs don't care to fix this for kb/m (Cough Bioware).  In this aspect, yes, PC is behind.  Gladly there still are some devs who care and happen to produce some of the best games in the market (CDProject, Valve, Blizzard).  But if you use a controller, a majority of games out there are objectively superior on PC.  I just can't do 30 fps anymore.