119 réponses à ce sujet

[DemGeth]

Gabe is going to rule the world I'm telling you.  

[Munktor]

Well a majority of AAA developers still feel the need to make a PC version, so apparently not all of those are moba/mmo sales. And both moba/mmo can be AAA btw.

 

If that's the route this analysis goes, then we should both just assume all games will be made with smartphones in mind soon, because mobile gaming is soon about to gross more revenue than console and PC independently.

 

The point isn't that nobody wants to make games on the PC.  The point isn't that games don't sell on the PC.

 

The point is that the console market offers a wider variety of consumer and less spec intensive optimization.

 

End of the day, devs can work less for more upside on the console, and with console in mind.

[DemGeth]

If that's the route this analysis goes, then we should both just assume all games will be made with smartphones in mind soon, because mobile gaming is soon about to gross more revenue than console and PC independently.

 

The point isn't that nobody wants to make games on the PC.  The point isn't that games don't sell on the PC.

 

The point is that the console market offers a wider variety of consumer and less spec intensive optimization.

 

End of the day, devs can work less for more upside on the console, and with console in mind.

No that's just dead wrong and honestly mate you need to give it up.  

[Munktor]

No that's just dead wrong and honestly mate you need to give it up.  

 

It isn't less spec intensive optimization for a set standard stock of hardware of a console versus the myriad of possible customizations on PC?  Ummm, may I remind you of recent nvidia driver debacle?

 

It wasn't like this in the days of Starcraft, Counter-Strike, Everquest, the first Neverwinter and Baldur's Gate.  For those of you who were around for those days of the Golden Age of PC gaming...i'm sure you remember how inane it would be to even assume titles like that could exist on the console or be worth playing.

 

Anywho, enjoy.  I'm glad I opted for PS4 on this title and not my PC.

[KevTheGamer]

Greetings Devs.

 

Thank you for making this game happen.

 

I play DA:O extensively on PC. 5 playthroughs with differently specced chars. Fantastic game.

After reading the reviews and reception of DA:2, I chose to buy it used and play it on console. 1 full playthrough. While the critics got a lot of points right, I think the game was better than the reception it got. While it was very different from Origins especially from a combat perspective the key thing was that I still had fun. However I do think it is true that DA:2 benefited and took advantage too much from all the "good will" created by DA:O.  I think that a lot of the player pase felt a bit mislead prior to release and the rest. as we know, is history.

 

I bring this up because it is pertinent to what I am about to say. When DA:I was announced I had a choice to make. That choice was: which platform do I want to play this game in.  The choice wasnt easy, well, because consoles are much competitive now compared to PC performance wise, even though they still fall behind the high'ish end systems. I had also play DA on both platforms and while I enjoyed Origins considerably more, I still had fun playing DA:2 on console.

 

Then Bioware makes this announcement which was important to me. http://www.videogame...nquisition.html

 

The posted link said that DA:I lead platform was going to be the PC.  This is what I needed to make my choice. So I chose to buy and play this game based on the plaftform that it was going be the "lead" one. 

 

Then after release, I, and probably lots of us that also bought the game based on the lead platform, evidently got something very very very wrong.

 

While PC was the lead platform for development (whatever that means) it evidently wasnt the lead platform for the control scheme part of the development process.  Everyone that has a PC and has resorted to buying or connecting a gamepad to play this game understands this. The game just plays better with a console control scheme (gamepad).

 

While I am having fun the game, and like it very much, I honestly have to say from the bottom of the most sencere feedback you can get from a fan, is that playing with mouse and keyboard as it was released IS dimishing the experience for me. Only slightly, but is.

 

Next time, I would suggest the devs, that when they announced that PC is the lead platform at some point before release they should also have clarified that the control scheme was going to be optimized for gamepad usage.  I think this would have prevented a lot of players feeling misguided or mislead by the announcement in the link. It would also would have prevented a lot of the feedback you are having regarding this topic. 

 

So either a clarification before release I think  was in order or simply release the game (slight delay if needed) with a fully customizable kb + m experience as a any normal player would conclude and expect after reading that "PC is the lead platform for DA:I". It is just not up to par and sadly it is sligthly dimishing my experience as a gamer.

 

Thanks again for this game. It is great. And looks beautiful. Grats on metascore.

 

xvader

 

PS.

I know you are getting a lot of feedback on this issue and more importantly have acknowledge it. Pretty please make the fixes happen fast!

I have been playing this game with mouse and keyboard just fine. For me personally its a non issue. I hear a lot of people complaining about the control scheme but its laid out very similar to Dragon Age 2 which again imo was perfectly fine on PC.  

[Dubstob]

 

 

Anywho, enjoy.  I'm glad I opted for PS4 on this title and not my PC.

 

Well if you have a controller, the game is way better on PC objectively speaking.

 

The issue is we shouldn't really have to use controller, especially when a 5 year old game (DAO) did it just fine.

 

Not going to address the rest of your points in the industry, because you aren't really providing proof, while I did with the 2014 hardware/software sales reports.   

[AlanC9]

For me the difference are minor.......and it could be just a matter of personal preference.   With few exceptions(precision games) I always find moving characters easier with sticks on a controller.    Triggers seem more logical for "shooting" , etc.

 

For DA:I  for me the biggest difference is with regards to the tac cam..........I just find it much easier/quicker to do what I want with it on a controller........hold trigger to advance time, etc just play out smoother. 

 

Menu, interacting with map, etc Ide rather use a mouse but in DA:I its one or the other. 

 

The stupid loot sonar is just as annoying on controller than keyboard..

 

Auto-attack is not something I care about, miss or wish I had.

 

And last but not least........I suffer way less hand "fatigue" which for a game like this where I lose track of time is rather significant.

 

OK, thanks. So you were never a fan of WASD in the first place, right?

[DemGeth]

Why.  Plug in controller play on 4k or multiple screens or 1440p.  Personally I've a cable snaked to the TV under the floor, long hdmi cables are really cheap  So I've the choice of big screen or computer monitor.  

[Sylvius the Mad]

The game just plays better with a console control scheme (gamepad).

Nothing plays better on a controller. A customisable control scheme will always be superior, because it allows different players to play differently.

Disabled and can't use your left hand? There's a KBM layout for that. Have Parkinson's disease? There's a KBM layout for that. Have tiny thumbs? There's a KBM layout for that.

I'll play console games when they let me plug in the input device of my choice. And it won't be a gamepad.

[Maria Caliban]

The Frostbite engine natively supports gamepads but not keyboard and mouse. The people designing and testing the UI could immediately start doing so for the gamepad, but had to wait for BioWare's own programmers to develop and test the keyboard and mouse controls.

Remember that this is a different engine. The code they've been using for the last 15 years for their Dragon Age/NWN/BG games doesn't work and no one has probably needed to create the hardware interface from the ground up for some time.

That's why it's different from previous games and far less polished than the controller interface.

[bmwcrazy]

The Frostbite engine natively supports gamepads but not keyboard and mouse. The people designing and testing the UI could immediately start doing so for the gamepad, but had to wait for BioWare's own programmers to develop and test the keyboard and mouse controls.

Remember that this is a different engine. The code they've been using for the last 15 years for their Dragon Age/NWN/BG games doesn't work and no one has probably needed to create the hardware interface from the ground up for some time.

That's why it's different from previous games and far less polished than the controller interface.

Are you serious about Frostbite 3 not supporting keyboard + mouse?

Remember Frostbite 3 was made for Battlefield 4, where keyboard + mouse worked perfectly and dominated everything.

What we have here is a series of minor control and gameplay problems that can be easily fixed.

[glosoli]

The Frostbite engine natively supports gamepads but not keyboard and mouse. The people designing and testing the UI could immediately start doing so for the gamepad, but had to wait for BioWare's own programmers to develop and test the keyboard and mouse controls.

Remember that this is a different engine. The code they've been using for the last 15 years for their Dragon Age/NWN/BG games doesn't work and no one has probably needed to create the hardware interface from the ground up for some time.

That's why it's different from previous games and far less polished than the controller interface.

 

I hope it's not the dev's excuse for not implementing something that important. They had enough time to develop DAI and they knew for what platforms they will publish it. Perhaps "well, people... better use controller" was not a good marketing step on pre-order stage.

[devSin]

That's why it's different from previous games and far less polished than the controller interface.

I'd wager it's also because they only started working on it after they had already mostly finalized the controller interface.

 

It definitely feels like something that came out of the oven way too soon.

[bmwcrazy]

In my mind, I can just imagine an office full of beta testers playing the game with controllers and not one using a keyboard and a mouse.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The Frostbite engine natively supports gamepads but not keyboard and mouse. The people designing and testing the UI could immediately start doing so for the gamepad, but had to wait for BioWare's own programmers to develop and test the keyboard and mouse controls.

Remember that this is a different engine. The code they've been using for the last 15 years for their Dragon Age/NWN/BG games doesn't work and no one has probably needed to create the hardware interface from the ground up for some time.

That's why it's different from previous games and far less polished than the controller interface.

It's an engine used primarily for shooters. KBM is the ideal shooter input.

Since they had to design it from the ground up, that suggests they could have done it however they wanted. This is what they wanted?

[Brogan]

The Frostbite engine natively supports gamepads but not keyboard and mouse.

 

Spoiler

[Rico01]

Honestly I don't find it so hard or think it is a stretch to draw my own conclusion about this. Sure, PC might have been the LEAD platform but given different hardware setups and also catering for the console side some compromises must be made in order for the project to be even feasable, both time and money-wise. Like it or dislike it, but that's the reality. If you resent this (and this is not levelled at the OP but in general) my suggestion is that you go into the business yourself as a developer. I have a feeling many of those who goes into a tantrum about this or that and all that is wrong here and there would in that situation find that the economic realities and the development process (especially for a multi-platform game) have a nasty habit of punching you in the face. Hard. And all the while, kids write on fora and on twitter what an ass you are etc. I will laugh all the same.

[naughty99]

Clearly they didn't design it with M&K in mind at the very least.

Can you explain a bit what is different about controls compared to DA2, where mouse and keyboard worked perfectly for me.

I own a gamepad, and tried it once for a racing game, but simply cannot use it, makes my fingers cramp. Had to go back to my trusty mouse and Nostromo keypad. I plan to play Inquisition the same way I played DA2 and DAO, micromanaging every single action by every party member, in the pause menu the entire game.

[Brogan]

Can you explain a bit what is different about controls compared to DA2, where mouse and keyboard worked perfectly for me.

I own a gamepad, and tried it once for a racing game, but simply cannot use it, makes my fingers cramp. Had to go back to my trusty mouse and Nostromo keypad. I plan to play Inquisition the same way I played DA2 and DAO, micromanaging every single action by every party member, in the pause menu the entire game.

 

Whew, then you're gonna have to wait for a patch like the rest of us.

 

There are alot of play-by-play descriptions of people trying to do basic things in the game that *should be* relatively simple, but can't because of the wonky, console-leftover control scheme we got.  Bioware has to fix alooooot of things before it's even playable for most in here.

[Akka le Vil]

No, it's not - but it's indicative of the market trend none-the-less.

You talk about "indicative trend" while ignoring the single most defining one ? Hu ?

Maybe you should think this through a bit again...

 

It's interesting that games are still developed more so with consoles in mind even though PC gamers outnumber that of either console. This idea that every game needs to be made so that dude bros can sit on their couch and fist pump all day is absurd. The numbers are real Bioware, people still like to play real RPGs. Publishers really need to stop hiring used car salesmen and put someone in charge that understands this industry.

 

Simple "lowest common denominator" logic here (and I mean, strictly speaking, without bias nor loading the term) : a mouse + kb interface is just not feasible on console, while a controller interface is "just" subpar on PC.

Impossible (in practice, I know there is keyboards and mouse on consoles, it's just too rare to be relevant) vs unefficient, well, unefficient wins.

[Rylor Tormtor]

I have been playing this game with mouse and keyboard just fine. For me personally its a non issue. I hear a lot of people complaining about the control scheme but its laid out very similar to Dragon Age 2 which again imo was perfectly fine on PC.  

 

It is not just the control, it is the entire combat approach. I don't like action RPG's because I don't like/am not very good about running around the screen chasing things. The screwed up controls and the general combat issues mutually re-enforce each other and it is really frustrating. 

[Gaylonn]

OK, thanks. So you were never a fan of WASD in the first place, right?

 

Honestly it depends on the game.  

[DocSun]

Can you explain a bit what is different about controls compared to DA2, where mouse and keyboard worked perfectly for me.

I own a gamepad, and tried it once for a racing game, but simply cannot use it, makes my fingers cramp. Had to go back to my trusty mouse and Nostromo keypad. I plan to play Inquisition the same way I played DA2 and DAO, micromanaging every single action by every party member, in the pause menu the entire game.

 

There is no auto attack, there is no click once and move, there is no multi move option in tactical, the camera does not zoom out very far, at least compared to previous games, your mouse does not actually select things but a cursor you have to control using the (qwes) keys yes NOT wasd but qwes (you could rebind but really...) the cursor itself gets stuck on terrian and has a limited range from the character you have currently selected and it acts like a character (aka can not go up a stone hill) and thus you have to swing it around to the back side of slopes to target an enemy right above you (God help you if they are on a bridge) and that plus limited range often means moving a character out of your wanted location just to target an enemy better. Not to mention the cam does not just clear the ceiling away it gets stuck behind foliage and bridges making it hard to see.

 

If that alone does not turn you off of bad controls/bad tactical camera programing i dont know what will

[archav3n]

I find the need to use QWSE or Shift+Mouse to Edge of screen very bad for KB+M gamer. Also, the tac-cam INDOOR is ANNOYING. I suspect the game is designed to be played as a 3rd person game and only added the tac-cam late in game development.

 

The most annoying thing in th game is Tac-Cam indoor. I suspect they are not able to remove the ceiling/roof of dungeons/buildings. Could it be due to the Frostbite Engine?