83 réponses à ce sujet

[Blips]

Oronduil wrote...
Where the hell are you living where new books only cost a dollar???

Same place where Movie Tickets are $12 ?

[Forsakerr]

i chose not to kill the mage guy and told him to stop crazy experiments , i would have thought that later on i could go inside the keep and do some kind of stuff in there but the door is closed and cant open it again ? will i be able to enter the keep again or i ll be stuck outside with the merchants for ever anyone knows?

[hannahb]

Srikandi715 wrote...

Really, to get a good sense of dollar value of DLC, you should be comparing the cost to similar games. Heck, compare it to the SAME game.

As I've said in another thread, $7 is more than 10% of the cost of the normal edition of DA:O. So, does it give you gameplay equivalent to 10% of the game? From all the reports I've read, no. Therefore, it's not worth it.

Let's take another comparison. Torchlight just came out, a smallish but fun ARPG, for $20. $7 is a little more than a third of the cost of Torchlight. Does this DLC provide a third the gameplay of Torchlight? Not by a LONG shot, even if you only play the single-player main dungeon in TL and ignore the infinite dungeon and all the optional side dungeons Took me about three days to complete Torchlight's main quest; didn't keep track of how many hours per day, but it was a lot

So, in the realm of computer gaming as entertainment, is it good value for money? I don't think so. Which is why I got so annoyed when I discovered that whether I decided I wanted to get it or not, my base game is infected by the connected NPC and questlog entry

Actually, this person has it dead on.  Anyone paying more than 50$ for eveything Bioware has ready as of this date and time is just sending a message to the corporate world that for a pitful bit of work they can reap tons of profit.  Consequently the quality of games will down as the price continues to rise through the roof.  It could not be more illogical to say ,"Hey I'll give you more of my money if you give me less of your effort."  What idiot would say that?  It's just ridiculous. It goes totally against the grain of the producer/consumer releationship.  When you go to buy a new CD player do you buy the one that costs the most money but provides the least features?  I call bull****.  Anyone arguing against this had to be a corporate plant that are you all really are fools.

[Deran2]

hannahb wrote...

Srikandi715 wrote...

Really, to get a good sense of dollar value of DLC, you should be comparing the cost to similar games. Heck, compare it to the SAME game.

As I've said in another thread, $7 is more than 10% of the cost of the normal edition of DA:O. So, does it give you gameplay equivalent to 10% of the game? From all the reports I've read, no. Therefore, it's not worth it.

Let's take another comparison. Torchlight just came out, a smallish but fun ARPG, for $20. $7 is a little more than a third of the cost of Torchlight. Does this DLC provide a third the gameplay of Torchlight? Not by a LONG shot, even if you only play the single-player main dungeon in TL and ignore the infinite dungeon and all the optional side dungeons Took me about three days to complete Torchlight's main quest; didn't keep track of how many hours per day, but it was a lot

So, in the realm of computer gaming as entertainment, is it good value for money? I don't think so. Which is why I got so annoyed when I discovered that whether I decided I wanted to get it or not, my base game is infected by the connected NPC and questlog entry

Actually, this person has it dead on.  Anyone paying more than 50$ for eveything Bioware has ready as of this date and time is just sending a message to the corporate world that for a pitful bit of work they can reap tons of profit.  Consequently the quality of games will down as the price continues to rise through the roof.  It could not be more illogical to say ,"Hey I'll give you more of my money if you give me less of your effort."  What idiot would say that?  It's just ridiculous. It goes totally against the grain of the producer/consumer releationship.  When you go to buy a new CD player do you buy the one that costs the most money but provides the least features?  I call bull****.  Anyone arguing against this had to be a corporate plant that are you all really are fools.

Pitful bit of work? Wow, talk about insulting every single person who worked on the DLC.

[hannahb]

Deran2 wrote...

hannahb wrote...

Srikandi715 wrote...

Really, to get a good sense of dollar value of DLC, you should be comparing the cost to similar games. Heck, compare it to the SAME game.

As I've said in another thread, $7 is more than 10% of the cost of the normal edition of DA:O. So, does it give you gameplay equivalent to 10% of the game? From all the reports I've read, no. Therefore, it's not worth it.

Let's take another comparison. Torchlight just came out, a smallish but fun ARPG, for $20. $7 is a little more than a third of the cost of Torchlight. Does this DLC provide a third the gameplay of Torchlight? Not by a LONG shot, even if you only play the single-player main dungeon in TL and ignore the infinite dungeon and all the optional side dungeons Took me about three days to complete Torchlight's main quest; didn't keep track of how many hours per day, but it was a lot

So, in the realm of computer gaming as entertainment, is it good value for money? I don't think so. Which is why I got so annoyed when I discovered that whether I decided I wanted to get it or not, my base game is infected by the connected NPC and questlog entry

Actually, this person has it dead on.  Anyone paying more than 50$ for eveything Bioware has ready as of this date and time is just sending a message to the corporate world that for a pitful bit of work they can reap tons of profit.  Consequently the quality of games will down as the price continues to rise through the roof.  It could not be more illogical to say ,"Hey I'll give you more of my money if you give me less of your effort."  What idiot would say that?  It's just ridiculous. It goes totally against the grain of the producer/consumer releationship.  When you go to buy a new CD player do you buy the one that costs the most money but provides the least features?  I call bull****.  Anyone arguing against this had to be a corporate plant that are you all really are fools.

Pitful bit of work? Wow, talk about insulting every single person who worked on the DLC.

Yes, I am. Because they are attempting to insult your intelligence by making you think it was far more effort than it actually was.  The hardest work was long done by the time the DLC was worked on they are just trying to ride us for more money.

Modifié par hannahb, 05 novembre 2009 - 06:09 .

[Deran2]

hannahb wrote...
Yes, I am.

Then it seems you have very little idea about game development.

[hannahb]

Deran2 wrote...

hannahb wrote...
Yes, I am.

Then it seems you have very little idea about game development.

Unfortunately, that is more true for you than I

[minusAngel]

I got the Journeys in game content to work on the ps3 no problem. Did all my download content about 11pm last night and had no problems what so ever. I haven't gotten to the wardens keep dlc yet, but I did get everything. All in time for my bday from the wife and kids. Dragon Age CE, plus any and all download content that gets released. Think the wife likes the time away from me

[Deran2]

hannahb wrote...
Unfortunately, that is more true for you than I

You're edit came after my post, but you're still wrong. I completely understand that nothing involved in development is easy or "pitiful". Whether or not the product of their work is worth the price they're suggesting is another story, but that doesn't trivialize the effort they put into it. The people making the content aren't the ones who decide the price, that is done by other people.

[Eoweth]

It included voice overs for Alistair, making me think that perhaps this really was part of the full game just released separately?



If it really was worked on by a completely separate group working outside the main development thread, how did it include custom voice work from the main game talent? I mean, if all the voice work for Alistair was done at one time, this was clearly a planned part of the game and releasing it as Day One DLC is a little shifty.



If the talent was brought in after the original voice recordings... well, Bioware has recently said that it simply wouldn't be cost effective to bring in voice actors for DLC due to minimum costs to pay the actors, so why did they do it for this? Especially since this was really just one line or so.



So.. yeah, I'm thinking all this Day One DLC stuff really was originally part of the game, taken out and nickel and dimed to us.



As Srikandi said, $7 for an hour is some bad value for our money. Why sell a 80 hour game for $60 when you can sell a 79 hour game for $60 and a 1 hour DLC for $7 more? Right EA?

[Deran2]

Eoweth wrote...

It included voice overs for Alistair, making me think that perhaps this really was part of the full game just released separately?

If it really was worked on by a completely separate group working outside the main development thread, how did it include custom voice work from the main game talent? I mean, if all the voice work for Alistair was done at one time, this was clearly a planned part of the game and releasing it as Day One DLC is a little shifty.

If the talent was brought in after the original voice recordings... well, Bioware has recently said that it simply wouldn't be cost effective to bring in voice actors for DLC due to minimum costs to pay the actors, so why did they do it for this? Especially since this was really just one line or so.

So.. yeah, I'm thinking all this Day One DLC stuff really was originally part of the game, taken out and nickel and dimed to us.

As Srikandi said, $7 for an hour is some bad value for our money. Why sell a 80 hour game for $60 when you can sell a 79 hour game for $60 and a 1 hour DLC for $7 more? Right EA?

Unless they brought some of the VAs back at a later point to rerecord lines or do lines for the Stone Prisoner stuff. Just speculating, of course, but hey you're doing the same so its all good.

[attackfighter]

Deran2 wrote...

hannahb wrote...
Unfortunately, that is more true for you than I

You're edit came after my post, but you're still wrong. I completely understand that nothing involved in development is easy or "pitiful". Whether or not the product of their work is worth the price they're suggesting is another story, but that doesn't trivialize the effort they put into it. The people making the content aren't the ones who decide the price, that is done by other people.

Your logic seems somewhat skewed. You can't just decide whether or not somethings pitiful and pass it off as an absolute fact. The best way of determining somethings worth would be to compare it with something else; in this case the dev's previous work.

Furthermore, your reasoning doesn't take the end result into account. I could spend 500 hours digging a 200 foot hole and 1000 hours digging a 20 foot hole; according to your values the 20 foot hole would be better, simply because I invested more time in it. If the devs invested as much time as you claim, then they're simply being inneficient and by allowing them to continue being inneficient you're doing more harm then good.

[Deran2]

attackfighter wrote...
Your logic seems somewhat skewed. You can't just decide whether or not somethings pitiful and pass it off as an absolute fact. The best way of determining somethings worth would be to compare it with something else; in this case the dev's previous work.

Furthermore, your reasoning doesn't take the end result into account. I could spend 500 hours digging a 200 foot hole and 1000 hours digging a 20 foot hole; according to your values the 20 foot hole would be better, simply because I invested more time in it. If the devs invested as much time as you claim, then they're simply being inneficient and by allowing them to continue being inneficient you're doing more harm then good.

I think you misunderstand my post. I'm saying nothing involved in development is easy or pitiful, as he put it. So call it such is an insult to everyone who worked on the content. I didn't mention the length of time they worked at all so I don't know where you got that from. The DLC team was told to make this and they did. If its not worth the price EA and Bioware are trying to charge of it then its not worth it, but to say the work they did was pitiful just based on that is ridiculous.

[Highlen]

I kinda agree 7 is kinda steep for any dlc but I really enjoyed the quest line and the choices and the 2 abilities that you get.

[uglor808]

Are you saying a movie ticket costs you $14? Where  do you live?


 

Oronduil wrote...

$7 for an hour of entertainment is steep? You pay double that for a movie ticket to see a 2 hour movie so I think it's about on par. Plus unlike a movie ticket, you get to keep re-experiencing the warden's keep when you play through the game again.

[attackfighter]

Deran2 wrote...


I think you misunderstand my post. I'm saying nothing involved in development is easy or pitiful, as he put it. So call it such is an insult to everyone who worked on the content. I didn't mention the length of time they worked at all so I don't know where you got that from. The DLC team was told to make this and they did. If its not worth the price EA and Bioware are trying to charge of it then its not worth it, but to say the work they did was pitiful just based on that is ridiculous.

Why isn't it pitiful? How are you justifying your opinion? Relative to the rest of the game, it's pitiful. Relative to it's cost, it's pitiful. Relative to just about anything, it's pitiful.

The problem with your post is that it's saying something isn't pitiful as long as it has an arbitrary amount of work (decided by you) put into it. You're presenting your opinion as fact, when all evidence seems to argue against what you're saying.

[Tresca Mizzrym]

im getting the same thing. After the talk an cinematic nothing happens only shales area is solid yellow an party camp is circled he still has the exclamation point above him. Im only lvl 7 is there a lvl requirement? Any helps appreciated thanks.



Sincerely

Tresca

[Trelow-LMG]

It's an hour of minimum wage work...

[robotnist]

i love how everyone has their own justifications for spending 7$ on something so short...

"movies cost..."

"replay value"

etc...



heres the deal, compared to the value of the rest of the game. a 50$ PC game that is no less than 40 hours long and it has been said to last upwards of 100+ hours doing all side quests, 7 bucks for 1 hour (or less) and an empty box to throw your junk in is WAY too much, period.



it has nothing to do with my opinion of the game. i hope that bio supports DAO like FO3 and releases DLCs with 5-10 hours worth of goodies. but i wouldnt pay more than 10 bucks for 5 hours, so if theyre testing us to see how much we'll pay for one hour of content by selling wardens keep for 7$, were losing.

[Deran2]

attackfighter wrote...
Why isn't it pitiful? How are you justifying your opinion? Relative to the rest of the game, it's pitiful. Relative to it's cost, it's pitiful. Relative to just about anything, it's pitiful.

The problem with your post is that it's saying something isn't pitiful as long as it has an arbitrary amount of work (decided by you) put into it. You're presenting your opinion as fact, when all evidence seems to argue against what you're saying.

What evidence exactly? Cost isn't their decision. They had nothing to do with how much it cost. Its a small bit of content, you're never going to see additional content, be it DLC or expansions, that have a relative value compared to the actual game because that simply isn't possible. I don't feel like doing math at the moment, but using the price/hours logic to compare expanded content to original is doing no service to the extended content. Even if said content is in the form of a $30 expansion pack. Using a comparison ratio a $30 expansion pack to a 80+ hour $50 original game would have to have a lot more hours to its single play through then most expansions offer (there have been exceptions, of course). If you don't think its worth the money, fine, I have no problem with that. However, you not feeling that its worth the price other people decided to put on it doesn't discount from the work the developers put into it. I've rarely ever heard of teams from studios if Bioware's calibur not putting a lot of effort into whatever they make. Whether its small things like this or big expansions. If you feel the amount of content offered for the price is pitiful that's one thing, but to say the work that the developers did is pitiful is something else.

PS: Sorry for the typos, these damn forums are screwing with Chrome's spell checker.

[Trelow-LMG]

Hell, I've paid more for purely cosmetic items in games.



What is "WAY too much" for one person, can be completely reasonable to another.



Value. It's relative.

[Deran2]

etherhonky wrote...

i love how everyone has their own justifications for spending 7$ on something so short...
"movies cost..."
"replay value"
etc...

heres the deal, compared to the value of the rest of the game. a 50$ PC game that is no less than 40 hours long and it has been said to last upwards of 100+ hours doing all side quests, 7 bucks for 1 hour (or less) and an empty box to throw your junk in is WAY too much, period.

it has nothing to do with my opinion of the game. i hope that bio supports DAO like FO3 and releases DLCs with 5-10 hours worth of goodies. but i wouldnt pay more than 10 bucks for 5 hours, so if theyre testing us to see how much we'll pay for one hour of content by selling wardens keep for 7$, were losing.

5-10 hours from the FO3 DLC?  The only one I got more than a couple hours out of was Broken Steel. Operation Ancorage was very short. The Pitt was a couple hours long for me. Mothership Zeta was about an hour and a half. Got burned out on the game before I played through the other one (the name escapes me at the moment), but I don't expect it to last all that long.

[bbcourt]

From what people have been saying, it seems like I won't be considering Warden's Keep for a while. This has nothing to do with the price, however, when there is already so much to do with all the possible characters you can make and different routes you can take, it will be a long while before I need something fresh to add. And with only one more extra hour (not saying that I do not want that hour) I do not think its worth it right now.

[syclonix86]

Let's just be glad Bioware added the toolset for everyone. Once ppl start making mods, I'm sure this won't be such a big deal as user generated content can be amazing-better than paid DLCs-while remaining free.

[Deran2]

syclonix86 wrote...

Let's just be glad Bioware added the toolset for everyone. Once ppl start making mods, I'm sure this won't be such a big deal as user generated content can be amazing-better than paid DLCs-while remaining free.

Yeah, I always love seeing what the community can do for a game. I wonder if there is going to be a nice place for us to go look at and download mods like TESSource for Morrowind and Oblivion.