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Let's throw some tomatoes, shall we? General feedback and suggestions


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#176
zMataxa

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Flawed conclusion.

 

Inventing the wheel was an advancement, because wheels didn't exist previously. Inventing the electric bulb was an advancement, because it far outshone (... eh) candles or oil lamps.

 

"Inventing" dysfunctional control schemes is not an advancement, because perfectly functional control schemes existed before, and because they are, eo ipso, no better than what we had previously.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. / Never touch a running system (unless you have good reason to, obviously).

 

Since when does invention automatically mean you automatically get the next best thing? 

It's always been a trial and error process with many dead ends or hurdles along the way.

It's a process of natural selection.  Some adapt, some don't or won't. 

 

PS.  I really do feel bad for those who lost the TacCam of old.

I like to see niche gamestyles preserved.

I'm sure it will all work out in the end.

What's life without a few soap operas?

It's all part of a good Love relationship :P


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#177
Terodil

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I get the feeling that we're saying the same thing with different words. I guess my point is, the current PC control scheme should NOT have survived any kind of natural selection process at Bioware Labs, if there even was one to begin with...

 

I hope so too. I'm still playing atm but I'm really looking forward to playing without RSI.


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#178
zMataxa

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I hope so too. I'm still playing atm but I'm really looking forward to playing without RSI.

...and with better hair :)


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#179
JCosmic

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I get the feeling that we're saying the same thing with different words. I guess my point is, the current PC control scheme should NOT have survived any kind of natural selection process at Bioware Labs, if there even was one to begin with...

 

I hope so too. I'm still playing atm but I'm really looking forward to playing without RSI.

 

Oh, there was.  It got passed through QA because they knew ahead of time it was going to be polished with a patch.  Generally, a video game isn't fully fleshed out until around the third patch cycle.  Many features have varying priority.  Often times, features with a lesser priority are rolled into a patch cycle to meet publishing deadlines.  Often, this is decided before release. 

 

The decision to roll features to the patch cycle ...well, that's generally when the wheels come off the wagon.  Some things can be really tough calls, some things no-brainers.  You only have so much time and so many resources you can dedicate to certain things.  If they think it will take X amount of time and that X is beyond the publishing date, it gets rolled. 

 

I've seen it where it was decided that some little nonsensical thing go into a patch cycle, and then upon release, people went nuclear about it and it was bumped in priority to the top.  I've seen it where some, what I considered to be rather large, features get rolled over and not a peep.  Sometimes they get it right.  Sometimes they don't.  The PC Control thing was a bad call. 

 

Here is a big clue.  Historically, smaller patches include hot fixes for burning issues.  Large patches are for content and features/improvements that were on the list but didn't make the cut.  If the first patch is a big one, chances are, our coveted Classic PC RPG controls are in it.

 

Sometimes a decision is made to fix burning issues first, like graphics issues, crashing and general stability fixes and then once the game is stable, roll in features and content.  We shall see.


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#180
Eagleheart

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There is no auto-attack in Inquisition? ...
You're kidding right? Please tell me you're kidding ...

 

Why would there not be an auto-attack? Why remove a feature that worked so well in RPG's such as Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, Dragon Age Origins, Dragon Age II, KOTOR, etc.? I mean Inquisition is an RPG with tactical combat that can be paused, thus not focusing entirely on button-mashing, soooooo you're kidding, yeah, it must be a joke :P

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As far as i recall there is no Auto Attack in Golden Dragon Age Origins and that's the way i want it to be Dragon Age  series. Cried big man tears when i saw it being in silly "puke" hack'n slash Game Called Dragon Age 2. I dislike Dragon Age Inquisition not having ability to que multiple task's like In golden Dragon Age Origins & camera control is freaky for a Pc Gamer. Please Bioware bring back at least some of the Golden Dragon Age Origins controls to Dragon Age Inquisition.

 

Friendly regards: 34y old huge Dragon Age fan.

 

EDIT: Ah no nvm now i remember that in Golden Dragon Age Origins there is auto attack as did do basic attack with Mage before ordered a set of special attacks for her,but never used basic attack with my main char which was Elf Rogue. But pls no crappy Dragon Age 2 Hack'n Slash attack system to Dragon Age Inquisition.
 


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#181
Tehrm

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I haven't read any of the other posts before this page, so take these as my initial gripes with controls and such:

 

* Not having access to spell/ability lists during battle is a gamebreaking error in judgment.  If my mage has a combination of electric/fire spells and I go into battle with an enemy with resistances to those, then I have no means to prevent my mage from being a lame duck during the battle.  I can't equip a more appropriate staff because the inventory is locked out, and I can't change their abilities because "some options are limited" (paraphrasing.  This includes being able to map abilities to the 8 button slots.) in the character record's abilities menu.  This would be fine if I could (like in DA:O and DA2) access their abilities through the radial menu, but as that is not an option, this character becomes useless for the battle.  Even then this would be fine if there was some sort of AI for mages that prevented them from using elemental spells that would be ineffective in battle.  

 

* Ultimately it's frustrating that I can't set characters to perform certain roles.  I want to be able to tell a mage to act in a support role (oh god there's no healing spell.  Why is there no healing spell?  Healing is not the same thing as barrier D: ) in some circumstances, and a 'debilitator' role in other circumstances.  I want to be able to flip a general setting so that a rogue can focus on bombs and poisons one moment, and focus on archery the next.  Some of that role-casting is addressed by what a character has equipped and what abilities are unlocked for them, I know; but it's especially bad in the case of mages.  I can't tell a mage to prioritize casting barrier over burning their mana in offensive spells, and I can't tell them to avoid running face first into a dragon when I want them to perform support.

 

* Gambits / tactics: I appreciate the efforts to simplify this feature, as these went untouched for many players in DA:O and DA2 due to their level of complication.  I feel that DA:I is too much of a leap in the other direction though.  I can only set each character to attack a target based on... other characters' target choices?  (or to defend a character, who needs to be specifically targeted... for some reason)  I need my rogues to be able to focus mages and just generally disrupt people other than the enemy my PC is focusing.  I need my warriors to be able to focus the enemy's tanks and aggro their rogues, removed from who my PC is focusing.  So much of target choice should be handled based on who your enemies are, not the targets of the rest of party.

 

* Specializations?  My first game I wanted to build an arcane warrior / battlemage... but I'm not even sure, 20-30 hours in, if there are any specializations, let alone specializations that match the ones on the DA:I website.  None of the characters that become members of the inquisition brought specializations with them, there are no visual cues to inform me of the existence of such in the abilities menu, no reference to specializations so far in my game (at level 10ish now), and nothing in the 4 default mage ability trees really lends itself to battlemage...ness.  I'm left with the impression that I'll just have to make do with what I have, which essentially means "be something other than a battlemage".

 

* Prologue was severely lacking (I may revise my opinion on this point if there is a 'flashback' section of the game later on that I haven't gotten to yet).  Part of what made DA:O and DA2 so enjoyable was that they spent a good chunk of time establishing why your character should give a crap about the Grey Wardens / Kirkwall. DA:O had 2-5 hour dedicated prologues for each of the character types, and you could argue that all of Act 1 in DA2 was a prologue for Hawke.  In Origins, Duncan helped you through one of the hardest times of your life, and your character likely owed him their life.  The Grey Wardens were needed in order to save the world, and now with Duncan (the man who went out of his way to save your life and believed in your character enough to make you a Warden) gone, it fell to you and Alistair to pick up the pieces of your broken order and put Ferelden back together.  In DA2, Kirkwall desperately needed someone who was willing to be the keystone of the city; someone able to negotiate between the Viscount, Arishok, and Chantry; between the mages and templars; Hawke took that burden upon themself because noone else would or could.  It's important to note though that Hawke probably wouldn't have done any of that if it wasn't for the importance the world-building had placed on Hawke's relationships with their party members - especially in regards to Aveline and Varric.  All of that character building took place over the course of upwards of 30-40ish hours of gameplay in the prologue/Act 1.  Contrast all of that with the prologue for Inquisition (Spoilers for the first few hours of Inquisition follow):

 

 

Cass ©:"We need you to help us because you're the only person who can close the seals."

Player Character (PC): "Ok.  What's my motivation?"

C: "...You survived the explosion.  And you can close the seals."

PC: "But that's not a motivation.  Why does my survival mean I need to devote myself to saving the world?"

C: "Because you have the mark that can seal the rifts.  Also I'll just kill you if you don't."

PC: "Ok, you're not getting this.  I don't care about any of you.  I'm 90% sure you guys were going to call an Exalted March a couple hours ago and everyone I have ever known would have been dead in a month.  By the way, my history is completely un-noteworthy.  There was noone of import in my previous life that I really want to go out of my way to save/avenge, nothing bad has ever really happened to me until my hand started glowing, and I have nothing that links me to the blight or the events at Kirkwall that might give me some kind of context in this already well-established world.  My life to this point has been so boring that it didn't even warrant a few hours of playable prologue."

C: "Fine.  I won't ask you any questions that may establish why anyone should care about you.  Oh by the way we're making you the commander of the Inquisition because everyone should care about you.  Because reasons.  ...Also, the hand thing."

 

* The Iron Bull has a triangle for a face.  I can't unsee it.  Awesome character so far though.


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#182
Guest_Hander Wayne_*

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I need my rogues to be able to focus mages and just generally disrupt people other than the enemy my PC is focusing.

Can't you control your party members manually?



#183
Ansa

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Can't you control your party members manually?

 

Uh, yeah, 1 action at a time?  Have fun with that, I'm out


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#184
Emileejay

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I haven't read anything and haven't finished the game yet, but by jove, this map is killing me.

 

Should I be at the top of the mountain or inside the cave? Also, why is there no map marker for my assassin specialization quest? Is this a bug or are they really trying to kill me softly?

 

It wouldn't be a problem but the journal just says "go to x, y, and z regions inside Crestwood", and the map has absolutely no indication of where those specific areas are, so I just wander around. I've only found one of the assassin bosses. I know where another area is, but there's a massive ass dragon in the way so I may not be able to even get to that particular item for another two or three levels. -.-

 

Seriously, I've gotten lost in this game badly multiple times already. Wasting an hour just trying to find a specific location. In the Fade, it was even a small area and I somehow still couldn't figure out where I was going for 30 minutes because I was just told to go "up" so I thought I had to climb some stairs and thus missed the door. SIGH. Maybe I'm just an incompetent boob but I hate these maps.

 

I also hate mountains. They are a personal affront to me in every RPG I've ever played, and I refuse to walk around them so I waste time by trying to climb them only to slide down to the bottom when I've almost reached the top. That's my own issue though. Ugh.

 

Just maps man. Fix yer labels.

 

Oh, also... did anyone else have Judith in Crestwood bug out on them? I tried talking to her, suddenly entered combat with no enemies anywhere nearby. Then I try talking to her again and all her dialogue options disappear, and I can't pick up her quest. SIIIIGH.


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#185
Guest_Hander Wayne_*

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Uh, yeah, 1 action at a time?  Have fun with that, I'm out

Why, you give orders to your companions and they just do what they've been told to after releasing Pause.


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#186
Kurupt13

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I had VERY LOW expectations with this game to be honest... and I was right to... EA has spread over bioware like the dirty cockroaches they are and are attempting to ruin yet another bioware series...  Here it is an apparently high rewarded game, but have those guys actually played the game?!!?!  Not that im saying this game is terrible, just the finer details are always forgotten when you deal with EA they always seem to have, a that's good enough attitude.


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#187
Brogan

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I've been lucky (or unlucky depending on how you look at it) to be "behind the curtains" on a particular pioneering MMO some years ago, before they were bought by SOE.  So I have a slight familiarity with the backroom, so to speak. 

 

I'm fairly certain they knew about several of these issues beforehand, specifically the handicapable PC controls, and had already planned to patch it after release.  This was how it got through QA.  This is the way it's done, generally.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they had already started working on the bug priority list, patch schedule and the first patch before release once the game went to publishing.  People think that it's all release parties and bar hopping on the night of a release.  It isn't.

 

What they should have done was just be more transparent.  They should have said "Yeah, we know.  We had a publishing deadline.  Hang in there and bear with us.  It's coming."  Because they didn't, it gives the appearance that they simply forgot or axed it without consideration, QA had their head in the sand and they gave a big middle finger to PC gamers, most especially after their marketing folks made a big deal about it being primarily developed for the PC platform a few months ago.  Big no-no.  Historically, people are more forgiving the more transparent you are.

 

I'm just as irritated as the next guy or gal, but knowing what I know, I'm holding out for the first patch.   Oh, and as a post script, let me just say, I'm about fed up with developers trying to kill two gaming platform birds with one stone.  They should have taken a queue from Rockstar and released a separate PC version.  This seems to be quite the fad in an attempt to save money, but it's never really been that successful and normally ends up just pissing people off. 

 

I would have happily waited for a PC version.

 

Very good info and look behind the scenes.

 

Honestly, with all the speculation and conspiracy-birthing that is going on and will be going on until the next official announcement, I can't describe enough how insightful and important a viewpoint like yours is in this community.  I mean, sometime around midnight Tuesday, it was obvious that something was REALLY wrong here, and you started to see the same lists and groupings of issues cited by both veteran forum members as well as 1st posters.

 

I would hope you continue to monitor this and give your opinions on the slow progression of info that comes out regarding the patching process and how it relates to the realities of wtf is going on at Bioware studios.  For example, I was just skimming through Mike Laidlaw's twitter and noticed somebody asked him 'where is the Walk option on PC?  His reply was:

 

Mike Laidlaw @Mike_Laidlaw

@bdipauly Does not exist yet, but that may change at some point.

 

So my question is regarding the meaning of his statement, obviously taking into consideration this is a Bioware lead designer, on Twitter, with all the implications that that brings with.  Does it mean they never intended to include a walk feature?  Does it mean they did, but rolled it into the patch, as you described (quite well btw), and he just doesn't want to let the info out that I *did* exist, because it would put him and Bioware in a better light.  So receptive to their customers wishes!

 

Or does it mean that he simply doesn't know the details, and is just trying to give his best estimate.

 

I agree with you that with a title this massive, concessions must be made, important aspects must be sacrificed, and deadlines must be dealt with.  But for the love of God, Yes, why was the PC version not given to a separate production cycle, a separate developement process away from the all-encompassing multi-platform deadline method of release?  It would have been so, so much better.


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#188
Brogan

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Keep these threads bump, guys

 

They are deciding what to patch as we speak.


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#189
Brogan

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bumpin



#190
Grieving Natashina

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I'm finally playing the game (held off for my own reasons,) and I noticed a few bugs so far:

 

After the end of the prologue, Cassandra is holding her arm out to shake my hand...at my shoulder level.  When she lets go, it's still at my character's shoulder height.  I don't think they accounted for the height difference between a dwarf and everyone else.  It was minor, and kinda funny, but it's there. :P

 

When I'm pinging for loot, sometimes an object will highlight and then become unclickable when the highlight fades.  Or, I have to be a few feet away in order for the highlighted item to show up.  If I'm too close, the object won't highlight.  

 

I've got both of the above bugs at the same time twice no.  I couldn't get it to highlight the object when I was pinging for it while standing on top of it, and when the highlight vanished (because I had to jog over to it,) it was no longer clickable.  I had to stand just the right distance away to highlight, then quickly move to the item in order to be able to click it.  This has been happening with the bags and boxes around Haven.

 

An example of the distance I had to stand in order to get this highlight.  I had to get it highlighted in order to loot.  Highlight disappeared=can't loot.  This only happens with some of the bags and boxes around Haven, but most of the loot there is a lil buggy outside:

 

Spoiler


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#191
ratcatfish

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I would really love it if turning on gamepad controls didn't deactivate the keyboard and mouse.  I would still like to be able to quick save and use the mouse for certain things.  Come on Bioware this is pretty basic.


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#192
Cambios

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I would really love it if turning on gamepad controls didn't deactivate the keyboard and mouse.  I would still like to be able to quick save and use the mouse for certain things.  Come on Bioware this is pretty basic.

 

Everything obvious and smart about UI design was apparently thrown in the trash when this game was built.


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#193
Brogan

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^^ Yea, that is bad.  That, once again, screams deadline to me.

 

I would have gladly waited another month if I knew they were ignoring basics like this to hit the release on time.



#194
Cambios

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^^ Yea, that is bad.  That, once again, screams deadline to me.

 

I would have gladly waited another month if I knew they were ignoring basics like this to hit the release on time.

 

You might be right, but that still shocks me. How could this be a deadline issue? Only if they absolutely gave no f\/cks about the PC version of this game.

 

Controls are so basic. That's something you nail down early.

 

I mean for christ sakes, you can't even lock the camera behind you..... in a 3rd person perspective game.

 

That's like......... default, basic behavior for any 3rd person perspective game.

 

Seriously. All they had to do was play WoW, or their own SWTOR. Anything.

 

Disappointed.



#195
Ansa

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Agreed, at least in DA2 you had sufficient controls and tactics

 

Yes, as much as it was simplified over the DA:O, it had normal controls and tactics.

After struggling with parachuting adds for a bit, eventually I gave up and just tried to enjoy the game, which eventually I did.



#196
JCosmic

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Very good info and look behind the scenes.

 

Honestly, with all the speculation and conspiracy-birthing that is going on and will be going on until the next official announcement, I can't describe enough how insightful and important a viewpoint like yours is in this community.  I mean, sometime around midnight Tuesday, it was obvious that something was REALLY wrong here, and you started to see the same lists and groupings of issues cited by both veteran forum members as well as 1st posters.

 

I would hope you continue to monitor this and give your opinions on the slow progression of info that comes out regarding the patching process and how it relates to the realities of wtf is going on at Bioware studios.  For example, I was just skimming through Mike Laidlaw's twitter and noticed somebody asked him 'where is the Walk option on PC?  His reply was:

 

Mike Laidlaw @Mike_Laidlaw

@bdipauly Does not exist yet, but that may change at some point.

 

So my question is regarding the meaning of his statement, obviously taking into consideration this is a Bioware lead designer, on Twitter, with all the implications that that brings with.  Does it mean they never intended to include a walk feature?  Does it mean they did, but rolled it into the patch, as you described (quite well btw), and he just doesn't want to let the info out that I *did* exist, because it would put him and Bioware in a better light.  So receptive to their customers wishes!

 

Or does it mean that he simply doesn't know the details, and is just trying to give his best estimate.

 

I agree with you that with a title this massive, concessions must be made, important aspects must be sacrificed, and deadlines must be dealt with.  But for the love of God, Yes, why was the PC version not given to a separate production cycle, a separate developement process away from the all-encompassing multi-platform deadline method of release?  It would have been so, so much better.

 

I'm a good ole fashioned player now, so I don't often take a stroll down that particular memory lane, but I have been known to do it on occasion.  Being a big fan of Bioware games, reading what I've been reading here (and elsewhere) and knowing what I know, I felt inclined to say a bit. 

 

I was more on the customer service side, particularly in-game but the guys "in the back" often spoke with us directly.  Such as "What?  Where?  Give me the coords," or "Yep, we're aware, it's on the discussion board," or "Yeah.  Fixed.  Will be rolled in next patch," or "Jesus Christ, that looks hideous.  We should really re-do that," or "Oh yeah, watch this ...oh!  Nope, they can't kill it like that," or "Man, we need to beef that thing up," or "I told them that was a bad idea!"   Often, they'd let us know what was axed/approved and why so we could spin it down to the masses.  I was in quite a few private group chats like that.  I garnered a tad bit of knowledge on how it's done.  Then again, that was quite a while ago and with a different company, so Bioware may be completely different, though the process hasn't changed much.

 

Regarding his comment about a walk toggle.  It was actually pretty revealing and somewhat surprising to me.  The fact that he even said it currently does not exist was encouraging, actually.  Chances are it was discussed, and was axed.  In the defense of this decision, they were developing a multi-platform Action RPG.  Someone probably thought walking was a wasted feature and not worth the time and money to add.  "That may change" implies it's on the board.  This is good.  Often, these guys, producers and lead designers, are shifty and vague on purpose.  Woe are you if you give the implication of a promise and it doesn't happen.  They will not respond or respond vaguely until they consult with the teams to confirm it can be done.   

 

Why was it developed multi-platform?  That's an easy one.  Money.


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#197
Brogan

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I'm a good ole fashioned player now, so I don't often take a stroll down that particular memory lane, but I have been known to do it on occasion.  Being a big fan of Bioware games, reading what I've been reading here (and elsewhere) and knowing what I know, I felt inclined to say a bit. 

 

I was more on the customer service side, particularly in-game but the guys "in the back" often spoke with us directly.  Such as "What?  Where?  Give me the coords," or "Yep, we're aware, it's on the discussion board," or "Yeah.  Fixed.  Will be rolled in next patch," or "Jesus Christ, that looks hideous.  We should really re-do that," or "Oh yeah, watch this ...oh!  Nope, they can't kill it like that," or "Man, we need to beef that thing up," or "I told them that was a bad idea!"   Often, they'd let us know what was axed/approved and why so we could spin it down to the masses.  I was in quite a few private group chats like that.  I garnered a tad bit of knowledge on how it's done.  Then again, that was quite a while ago and with a different company, so Bioware may be completely different, though the process hasn't changed much.

 

Regarding his comment about a walk toggle.  It was actually pretty revealing and somewhat surprising to me.  The fact that he even said it currently does not exist was encouraging, actually.  Chances are it was discussed, and was axed.  In the defense of this decision, they were developing a multi-platform Action RPG.  Someone probably thought walking was a wasted feature and not worth the time and money to add.  "That may change" implies it's on the board.  This is good.  Often, these guys, producers and lead designers, are shifty and vague on purpose.  Woe are you if you give the implication of a promise and it doesn't happen.  They will not respond or respond vaguely until they consult with the teams to confirm it can be done.   

 

Why was it developed multi-platform?  That's an easy one.  Money.

 

Wow, great stuff.  It's hard to imagine that soup-kitchen like back and forth going on with such a massive, layered, and extremely complex system like Dragon Age, but when you think about it, those little details that programmers agonize over and fight for are usually the things that end up royally pissing off gamers (or causing waves of joy in some cases)

 

What I worry about now is, if they do indeed have a 'chunk' of fixes that were already finished and are waiting in the first patch, we'll get those, but what about the inevitable things that group of fixes missed?  How much turnover is there for the hard working programmers who now are faced with issues that might not have occurred to them and might take more than the budget they are allowed to fix?

 

I know patches traditionally do not come out every other day for such a huge game.  But I'm in a precarious position of waiting until I can at least play DAI somewhat with the mouse and spacebar only, and I really don't mind waiting till that's possible.  But it's getting kinda hard to go back to main menu after creating my 20th character in a row in the CC.


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#198
Grieving Natashina

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More Haven feedback:

 

Varric, when he bends his legs slightly, clips straight through the ground for a split second.  I tried to get a screenshot of it, but it happens too fast.  Also, he moves like he's floating on the ground instead of shifting his weight.

 

In the tavern, the lady bard is missing about half of the lyrics in the captions.  :(

 

General Feedback:

 

I'm not sure if it's the game or my video drivers (AMD Radeon R9 200X series Sapphire, and fully updated,) but in order to have graphic changes to be made, I have to do a full reboot of my computer.  Otherwise, it leaves it on the same settings, as evident by doing a benchmark test.  If I leave everything on high, including water and shadow effects and the AO, I have a lower frame rate.  I went back to my old standby: Turned off AO, have no MSAA, turned the water and shadow effects to medium.

 

The latest driver update to AMD helped a lot; increased my overall FPS from ~36fps (with lowered settings) to ~40fps with the slightly lowered settings.   I'll keep posting if I notice anything so far.



#199
Tehrm

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Can't you control your party members manually?

 

Yeah, but when the battle starts, your characters seem to target whomever is closest to them; or if the PC started the fight, whomever the PC is targeting.  That means that every fight, your characters are fighting the wrong people.  Every fight, you have to assign targets because they are always targeting the wrong person.  And then you need to pause the fight each time an enemy is killed so you can make sure the rest of your group re-targets correctly?  That means you're being forced to put the fight into tactical view (instead of it being a feature that provides the option of more strategic control), and you have to pause, let's say, 20 times every fight just to assign the correct targets.

 

Like, I actually prefer tactical control, but this seems like unintentional overkill.



#200
Brogan

Brogan
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Yeah, but when the battle starts, your characters seem to target whomever is closest to them; or if the PC started the fight, whomever the PC is targeting.  That means that every fight, your characters are fighting the wrong people.  Every fight, you have to assign targets because they are always targeting the wrong person.  And then you need to pause the fight each time an enemy is killed so you can make sure the rest of your group re-targets correctly?  That means you're being forced to put the fight into tactical view (instead of it being a feature that provides the option of more strategic control), and you have to pause, let's say, 20 times every fight just to assign the correct targets.

 

Like, I actually prefer tactical control, but this seems like unintentional overkill.

 

LOL

 

Yea, I'd rather sit at my desktop and play Solitaire than try to manage that.


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