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glitches, gamebreaking bugs, and optimization fixes should continue throughout the entire process, across multiple patches, and will likely continue for much longer than it will take to tweak things like Tac Cam, UI and campaign bugs.
Not saying they shouldn't\won't, just that optimization fixes usually take priority over gameplay changes. Am I wrong?
By the way, does the game have a persistent gore like DAO? Because my party is always clean and shiny.
Not saying they shouldn't\won't, just that optimization fixes usually take priority over gameplay changes. Am I wrong?
I don't think you are wrong and they should come first. I dont crash but if there are people who have the required hardware and cant play even on the lowest settings. That's a huge problem.
By the way, does the game have a persistent gore like DAO? Because my party is always clean and shiny.
It does but I think it's glitchy. Don't quote me on that.
If you don't mind doing workarounds and figuring out unconventional ways to get the results you want during gameplay, then by all means, get out of here and go enjoy the game.
If you don't mind false advertising and supporting a business model where consumers get lied to, then, by all means, quelch your thoughts and don't ruin it for the rest of the world.
Meanwhile, we will still be here trying to get our voices heard in regards on how they need to deliver what they promised regarding PC gameplay. But, seriously, please stop defending business malpractices.
So this entire post is if you disagree with me shut up and go away?
What business malpractices? Name one false advertisement?
In every claimed case I have read on this thread its either 100% wrong ie blaming a feature originally to appear on a PC only game as a crappy console port. Or its people ASSUMING that the PC contols would mean origins controls and they never promised that.
The tac cam works if you rebind the keys. Is it perfect? No but you CAN click to walk you can auto attack you can't auto pick up loot but boo hoo thats hardly a business malpractice.
Almost the entirety of the thread is I don't like X feature. Well not liking a feature does not equal thye lied to you or malpractice. Not liking a feature does not equal you can't play this game effectively on PC. It equates to my subjective wants and desires were not catered to. All I can say is boo hoo. Blizzard has yet to caterto my wants and desires in the MMO market but I don't go QQing about it I simply don't buy WoW.
I thought Brent left of his volition, because he did not like the direction EA wanted to take DA2 in?
no but it was a highly accepted mod and I think should be implemented as part of a new game plus system but thats off topic
I never used that mod. Wasn't a big deal to me to collect the piles.
However I can absolutely see how some people would want it, so there should be a toggle or an added keybind.
Frankly I have no idea what the issue is with some PC gamers. While I find the tactical camera has limitations its functionality is very good. Its major limitation for me is that it doesn't scroll out far enough to provide a proper view of the battle from a top down perspective. I can get all the functionality from the tactics camera and the current level of tactics & behaviours provides me with the tools to shape the battle. I am required to MANAGE my party now vs letting the AI do all the heavy lifting. I don't think that is a bad thing.
I have found that on nightmare I am required to use the tactical cam to win boss fights. This means I got over my initial awkwardness of the controls, I rebound the tactical camera controls so wasd moves the camera forward/back and left/right vs moving the camera forward/back and turning the camera left or right. That went a LOOOOONG way in getting comfortable with the tac cam. Using the mouse to turn in tac cam and the keys to move the camera gave me a unified control system for each input device. The default controls divide the turning the camera on the vertical & horizontal planes to 1/2on the keyboard and 1/2 on the mouse. Its no wonder its so awkward for most pc users. If the only way to turn the camera is via the mouse then it takes only a couple of combats to get use to the tac cam controls.
I found being forced to adjust to the tac cam because I was playing on the highest difficulty and changing the key binds for the tac cam resulted in me adapting to the game at hand. I now find it enjoyable and functional. I am jumping from party member to party member in battles. I feel full agency over my party and I found that in the tac cam mode they handle themselves very well.
I think people didn't get the game they wanted so need to lash out and they blame it on consoles, really much of the QQ is based on design choices Bioware has taken from PC only games. The search mechanic has NOTHING to do with consoles, it was taken from the witcher 2 a PC only game. Now you can argue that you don't like it that it is an immersive breaking feature and do so fairly but it is simply ignorant to blame this on consoles. Second much maligned feature blamed on consoles is the limited active powers you can use. Again this was a feature first developed on a pc only game, GUILD WARS. Now you can argue that you don't like it, that it limits your choices in combat or that there in no need for this in a single player game, but it is ignorant to blame it on consoles.
It is logically inconsistent to blame design features that first appeared on PC only games and attribute these features to being in DA:I because of consoles. It doesn't make sense. Its almost a meaningless mantra of SOME PC gamers to blame any design feature they don't like on consoles.
I do know that the controls going from one form of combat to the next to NOT flow so players wanting a seamless transition from one form to the next are going to have a problem. I use click to walk in combat all the time, it simply something I accept not being able to do in "action" mode and since I don't want to play in "action" mode its not a problem for me. I think the major issues SOME PC users are having is they want action combat to behave like tac combat without having to go into tactical combat mode. This said I do use "action" mode combat for scrubs as its easier with a long range heavy party. But if too many of them reach my party and are in melee range I switch to tac camera and I have full agency over my companions. I really don't think it is a step backwards for game play to limit what options can be scripted for the AI by the player. DA:O was dumbed down combat because the tactics could do all the work. When combat is such that you don't have to do much at all but let your scripts make all the combat decisions then combat is DUMBED down. When you LIMIT what you can do with scripts so it FORCES the player to make tactical decision vs letting a script do it you have not by definition dumbed down combat, You have forced combat to be more of an intellectual endeavour because YOU must determine when to react to X threat with y ability. This means you have to regulate your companions abilities and behaviours so you can make these choices when needed.
Case in point I run a tank, ranged rogue (Pc), and two barrier mages, party. One barrier mage I keep his mana reserve at 50% and remove barrier from the rotation of spells. The second barrier mage I keep their reserve at 30% and put barrier as a priority. This allows me to ALMOST always have barrier ready and waiting to slap on my tank and keeps one mage always putting up a barrier when its ready protecting the group. This combo gives means I don't have to micromanage barrier but allows me to put up a timely barrier when my tank gets into trouble or any other party member for that matter. Now I am still working out what behaviours are best for what role but the game is new. I have been able to adapt to the system in DA:I and I enjoy that party combat is now no longer a "Set up my tactics perfectly, start combat, go get a coffee, come back and pick up my loot," affair anymore. I think its a huge step forward in game play when the player is actually REQUIRED to make combat decisions.
I know that some players are having technical problems, my game was crashing a lot the first week I played the game and the reason was I had a non-recommended setting level video card. I bought an AMD R9 290 using the beta drivers and I have had 1 crash since. This game is NOT low end computer friendly at all, this is similar to a "benchmark" game used to test the power of a system. It does need some more optimization but I believe most of the technical issues are from people trying to run the game with older systems.
The above said; I still think there need to be tweaks and things are nt perfect but it is hardly the doom and gloom SOME PC gamers at painting.
half of the issues you talk about (tactics, search, ability slots) are really not the central issues of this thread and i don't think those design choices can be blamed by console, so not sure why you are bringing those up. There are other threads complaining more on those issues and its probably a mix of console and pc users complaining.
I have only read through a little bit of this thread but I feel the central issues here are:
1. Many pc users have had a lot of stability problems and unable to play the game
2. The tactical cam is badly designed for kyb+ms. That's great that you were able to get used to this badly designed feature but others can not. When you have a controller you move around that cursor on the ground, which makes sense with a controller. But when you switch to keyboard and mouse that cursor is still there and you have to move it with WASD. Why? it does not make sense, you should just be able to pan around the battlefield with your mouse and get rid of the second cursor. This is a great example to show that the tactical cam was developed for controllers. And of course more zoom, but this applies to pc and console.
3. third person view should have auto attack and click to move. And saying you can just use tactical cam is not a good argument. What if someone prefers playing in third person view, or since the tac cam is so horrible most don't want to use tac cam. If you are able to do these things in tactical cam there is no reason they can't also allow you to do it in third person. Playing a melee class in third person with kyb+ms and no auto attack is difficult. I tried a melee class with a controller and it actually is a lot easier without auto attack and makes sense, so another way to show that this game was designed with controllers in mind.
4. UI definitely seems very console oriented
5. For anyone with a hand disability they are either unable to play this game or are having a very hard time. Movement for character and tac cam forces use of both hands and a lot of repetitive movement with certain things like search. Fixing issues 2 and 3 would go a long way to helping some play. Other issues were not being able to move with rmb+lmb and being able to bind keys to the mouse. This doesn't just apply to gamers with disabilities, others also miss these controls / are having a hard time without them.
anything i missed?
worst of all i felt mislead, from their advertising for pc gamers, and also all the reviews for this game fail to mention any of these issues. Yes i could have returned it but i missed the 24 hour window, and i am hopeful bioware will fix at least some of these issues.
The tac cam works if you rebind the keys. Is it perfect? No but you CAN click to walk you can auto attack you can't auto pick up loot but boo hoo thats hardly a business malpractice.
I couldn't agree more, It works. Just a few bugs
Not saying they shouldn't\won't, just that optimization fixes usually take priority over gameplay changes. Am I wrong?
No, you are correct.
Nothing wrong with WASD to move. Lots of WoW players do that. But they have Razer mice! Huge difference. I would use WASD if we had better key binding
...
By the maker, WoW is an ACTION RPG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't buy DA:I to play an ACTION GAME.
Also the controls in WoW are way BETTER than in DA:I, you can even CLICK TO MOVE or LOOT.
Andraste please save us...
But usually, you don't have to wait for sony's and microsoft's approval to release a patch on PC. Now we have to wait because for some reason that escapes logic, bioware decided to patch all 5 platforms at the same time... Who's the idiot who thought of that?
It's December and Bioware stopped even responding....
So I wish you all well, I'm going to avoid bioware titles from here on out. Not going to strain myself over it.
half of the issues you talk about (tactics, search, ability slots) are really not the central issues of this thread and i don't think those design choices can be blamed by console, so not sure why you are bringing those up. There are other threads complaining more on those issues and its probably a mix of console and pc users complaining.
I have only read through a little bit of this thread but I feel the central issues here are:
1. Many pc users have had a lot of stability problems and unable to play the game
2. The tactical cam is badly designed for kyb+ms. That's great that you were able to get used to this badly designed feature but others can not. When you have a controller you move around that cursor on the ground, which makes sense with a controller. But when you switch to keyboard and mouse that cursor is still there and you have to move it with WASD. Why? it does not make sense, you should just be able to pan around the battlefield with your mouse and get rid of the second cursor. This is a great example to show that the tactical cam was developed for controllers. And of course more zoom, but this applies to pc and console.
3. third person view should have auto attack and click to move. And saying you can just use tactical cam is not a good argument. What if someone prefers playing in third person view, or since the tac cam is so horrible most don't want to use tac cam. If you are able to do these things in tactical cam there is no reason they can't also allow you to do it in third person. Playing a melee class in third person with kyb+ms and no auto attack is difficult. I tried a melee class with a controller and it actually is a lot easier without auto attack and makes sense, so another way to show that this game was designed with controllers in mind.
4. UI definitely seems very console oriented
5. For anyone with a hand disability they are either unable to play this game or are having a very hard time. Movement for character and tac cam forces use of both hands and a lot of repetitive movement with certain things like search. Fixing issues 2 and 3 would go a long way to helping some play. Other issues were not being able to move with rmb+lmb and being able to bind keys to the mouse. This doesn't just apply to gamers with disabilities, others also miss these controls / are having a hard time without them.
anything i missed?
worst of all i felt mislead, from their advertising for pc gamers, and also all the reviews for this game fail to mention any of these issues. Yes i could have returned it but i missed the 24 hour window, and i am hopeful bioware will fix at least some of these issues.
I agree with you and godfather. The game is not broken and is very much playable and enjoyable. I must say again tho, if minor tweaks were brought to the tactical camera and the known bugs fixed then half the people complaining about its not like origins would not be able to complain. For tactical camera plays just like origins in my opinion which is why I feel it should be on the top of the list with people not being able to play at all.
I do agree tactical camera patch isn't the main fix but it will make people happy enough for them to focus on the other issues with 3rd person camera and k/b&m interface. Half the people here just want it to play like origins but haven't tried tactical camera because they aren't like me or godfather and cant put the clunkiness and bugs aside which is understandable.
Almost the entirety of the thread is I don't like X feature. Well not liking a feature does not equal thye lied to you or malpractice. Not liking a feature does not equal you can't play this game effectively on PC. It equates to my subjective wants and desires were not catered to. All I can say is boo hoo. Blizzard has yet to caterto my wants and desires in the MMO market but I don't go QQing about it I simply don't buy WoW.
So this entire post is if you disagree with me shut up and go away?
What business malpractices? Name one false advertisement?
In every claimed case I have read on this thread its either 100% wrong ie blaming a feature originally to appear on a PC only game as a crappy console port. Or its people ASSUMING that the PC contols would mean origins controls and they never promised that.
The tac cam works if you rebind the keys. Is it perfect? No but you CAN click to walk you can auto attack you can't auto pick up loot but boo hoo thats hardly a business malpractice.
Almost the entirety of the thread is I don't like X feature. Well not liking a feature does not equal thye lied to you or malpractice. Not liking a feature does not equal you can't play this game effectively on PC. It equates to my subjective wants and desires were not catered to. All I can say is boo hoo. Blizzard has yet to caterto my wants and desires in the MMO market but I don't go QQing about it I simply don't buy WoW.
many would agree the controls feel like they were developed for a controller and kyb+ms was an after thought. Same with UI. Which would have been fine if we would have known beforehand.
many would agree the controls feel like they were developed for console and pc was an after thought. Same with UI. Which would have been fine if we would have known beforehand.
Thanks for this, was having trouble finding the link. Also, the fact that they agreed with reviewers to not even mention the bad tac cam. Source? It's obvious, review pages I visited would always point out unpolished gameplay even when it's much less noticeable. These same websites decided not to mention all the bugs and issues surrounding the PC port.
Not saying they shouldn't\won't, just that optimization fixes usually take priority over gameplay changes. Am I wrong?
pretty sure its not the same team working on engine related things/crashes and control/ui/questbugs. so you could highly expect that there are things from both in the patch (but im pretty sure the more zoomable tactic cam is one of things not included fast (if at all) because to make this usable in the whole game is a lot of work)
I just got BSOD from mouclass.sys DLL. This is a MOUSE DRIVER.
many would agree the controls feel like they were developed for a controller and kyb+ms was an after thought. Same with UI. Which would have been fine if we would have known beforehand.
to be fair, you can exactly do with the given controls the things they show in the video. they show exactly the same ui that is ingame.
I agree with you and godfather. The game is not broken and is very much playable and enjoyable. I must say again tho, if minor tweaks were brought to the tactical camera and the known bugs fixed then half the people complaining about its not like origins would not be able to complain. For tactical camera plays just like origins in my opinion which is why I feel it should be on the top of the list with people not being able to play at all.
I do agree tactical camera patch isn't the main fix but it will make people happy enough for them to focus on the other issues with 3rd person camera and k/b&m interface. Half the people here just want it to play like origins but haven't tried tactical camera because they aren't like me or godfather and cant put the clunkiness and bugs aside which is understandable.
Auto-attacks, click to loot/move/attack, making the loot scanner into a toggle and making the tactical camera more like origins are 4 things that would have instantly got me to not complain at all.
to be fair, you can exactly do with the given controls the things they show in the video. they show exactly the same ui that is ingame.
Yes, but it's misleading, and intentionally so. Anyone have a link to that earlier video that showed a zoomed out tac cam?
So, it's Tuesday and there's still no patch. Does this mean we'll have to wait another week?
So, it's Tuesday and there's still no patch. Does this mean we'll have to wait another week?
Maybe another month we all anyone knows. They are certainly not very responsive nor do they communicate well with their customers. A bad example of how to run a gaming company.
I mean it only takes minutes to realize how they attempted to simply reproduce the console control scheme on mouse and keys. You just have to look at the key binds for both games. At the features left out of the pc version. At the shoehorned aspects that just don't work on pc.
In alot of ways, this whole thing was a blindside to the pc community. There were high expectations, and there was a level of quality already in place. The things we were told all summer held no clue of what was to come. Primarily because that is how EA wanted it marketed. And now it's obvious why they did so.
I'm very glad you managed to figure out a way to make use of the currently existing pc control scheme and enjoy your game. That's so fantastic for you.
But what about the people who played Origins and DA2, loved them, have been waiting for 3 years for DAI, but now can't play it because he happens to be a veteran who lost an arm, or she has severe arthritis that prevents prolonged usage of input devices? What about the father who can only play while holding an infant? What about the people who would rather miss out on something they've been dieing to play then be forced to only play one way?
They expected to have choices for how they play these games. And why shouldn't they, this is not a new developer, making the first game of a brand new franchise.
Yes REALLY.
This is the typical arguement of some PC gamers I was talking about. I played DA:O and DA2 (Two not so much as I felt it was a bad game but this is what a 16 - 18 month development cycle will give you). SO don't try to give your argument some kind of extra authority it doesn't have by claiming past experience with previous games. First it assumes that past experience is not shared with people you disagree with and assumes past experience somehow equates with justification of expectations. It doesn't. Time and time again you were told this game was built on a FPS engine and time and time again you were told this game has similar but not identical controls to DA:O. I did not follow this game extensively until september/oct and even with my casual contact with the development of DA:I I KNEW these things. So if SOME PC gamers did not that is on them not EA or Bioware because they did tell you.
I am WISE enough to know games change, controls change and the only way games improve is if they CHANGE things that are not broken. Sometimes the changes are good sometimes they are not but invovation is vital to the industries survival. This is how we inovate, we have touch screens now because someone took a NOT broken system and changed it on our phones. So YES THEY SHOULD CHANGE SYSTEMS THAT ARE NOT BROKEN.
I am sorry but Bioware NEVER promised you could play the game one handed. And its a stupid an argument as claiming there is no discriptive video so I can't play the game blind. yes its that stupid. Because your experiences from previous games mean nothing yes nothing. Bioware was VERY up front that this game was being made with a new engine and that engine was designed for a first person shooter. Name a shooter you can play one handed? They were also clear that there controls were similar to but not indetical to DA:O for the PC inerface.
They promised you could use mouse and keyboard controls and that the Ui would support it. And it does. The tac cam is 100% fully functional, its not perfect and the default bindings are sucky but that isn't anything new on computer games. i rebind almost all my controls in an MMO or the Witcher both PC only games so this idea that the default bindings are proof of a bad consol port is a strawman arguement at best at worst its delibertaly trying to misinform to strengthen your position. I think the only think you can't do in DA:I that you could in DA:O is click on loot and you auto run to pick it up. (Just an FYI you can click to move in tac cam)
Now if you expected to be able to play this game one handed and you can't thats tough luck, but you have or had the option to return the game. Origin has a liberal return policy. And anyone could have tried the game seen it can't be played with one hand and returned the game in said time window. So there can be ZERO claims to unfair business practises on that front.
I find it utterly baffling that somehow its EA/Bioware's fault for gamers having the expectation that a game designed on a SHOOTER engine could be played one handed and then to use this as a fraking justification to BLAME this bizzare expectation on the fact that you can't play the game one handed on the game was designed for consoles as well.
Not really sure why people are trolling in support of Bioware...They released a game that is broken from a very basic level. Yes its playable for people that dont mind altering their normal layout...ie controller or WSAD..I'm a good example. I've been playing games on PC since Duke Nukem 3d lol and I've never used WSAD i've always used the arrow keys for movement, enter for jump etc etc. Played CS and all the BF/COD games like this and that is the way I feel comfortable. When I move over to WSAD it feels completely awkward to me so I choose not to do it.
My point is that one of the great things about the PC is its ability to allow many many different ways to do the same task. That's how its been for damn near 99% of AAA games as well. The point with the AAA games is that the devs put in the time to give you the best experience and the best bang for your buck.
This game doesn't allow binding of the side mouse buttons, remapping of the LMB/RMB, doesn't allow you to zoom out when using a controller like you can with the scroll wheel on the mouse, doesn't allow you walk when using a KB/M. Yes some of these have work around....but this is a 60$ game why the f**l do I need a work around.
That's why I don't understand people like Gothfather sticking up for this. Just seems trollish and childish to ignore those facts.
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