Aller au contenu

Photo

PC Community Concerns


19127 réponses à ce sujet

#4001
Bethgael

Bethgael
  • Members
  • 959 messages

In what ways is WASD not responsive enough?  The inertia of starting moving?  I'm not sure why would hold LMB+RMB alleviate this when at first glance it seems like it wouldn't be much different than holding LMB+RMB = holding W.

 

Just curious if the issue is something else and that LMB+RMB wouldn't innately fix that if that other issue wasn't addressed.

 

Hi Allan, I'm late back to this, so if I may:

 

I've played, now, on easy, a mage with the controls as they are (although see up the thread as to how I've rebound my keys).

I note your question to Brogan re: what is required. You mention you're a WASD player, and, essentially, I am as well--and yet I still found the controls clunky. I have, however, noticed I'm "getting used" to the controls (perhaps as you have) and this would make it easy to forget how good the DA:O controls are in comparison. If  may suggest? Go and play DA:O for an hour or so. Remind yourself. I am finding that I am forgetting to use my mouse in WoW, now that I've played DA:I for a while. (Not Good: I prefer mouse movement for some raids and PvP Arenas so that I can use my hotkeys and keyboard for attack macros, as does my son. Other players I know prefer wasd movement in arena and point-click abilities. They don't have oceanic lag--I do. But, see, that's the point: choice. Always good. My way is not your way, and all that, kum-ba-yah).

 

Even as a WASD player, I like the option of using the 2 mouse keys. Gives my left hand a rest. Allows me to use my hotkeys 1 - 5, tab (which is the select key in WoW, too) with my lefthand, while moving with my right. Means that if I need to move sideways, attack and hotkey, I don't need three hands. It's also easier on smaller laptop keyboards--smaller board = cramping wrist if you use left exclusively for almost everything listed. For most games that I play with the option, I (rather effortlessly, if I do say so myself) switch between both styles of play without thinking too much about it, depending on what I want to do at that time. DA:I doesn't allow this. It's forcing square pegs into round holes, as a result.

But here's why left-right button movement can feel more responsive: Hold mouse buttons, move in direction of cursor, camera orients itself. All automated. With wasd, you're also using the mouse to orient the camera while using 2 or 3 buttons to direct your party. You can strafe using left-right button movement and autoattack and not even need to touch the keyboard. Can't do that with WASD alone. Again, try it in DA:O. It's easier to "see" that way.

Essentially, however, here's my suggestions:

 

1. It's been said, ad nauseum, but mouse support must improve. (Buttons/remapping). It's not just "point and click", it's also "move to cursor" with l-r button movement that is missing, here (something people have been confusing--perhaps that's clearer?) The ability to run using 2 mouse buttons, click to autoloot (click, walk up to item, loot NOT walk to item, hope you're in the right place, click as it is now--along with the long animation that accompanies each "looting", it makes the simplest of tasks in an RPG--picking stuff up after a fight or opening chests--tedious) with the left button as default, left click to talk to NPCs, right click to see the header of an enemy (rather than attacking out of tactical) and left click to autoattack should be the minimum standard. That is how DA:O and DA2 worked; that is how most RPGs have their setup. And then allow players to remap their keyboard AND mouse in any way they damned well please, as the last 2 games did, and as most RPGs do. Added note: the fact that, in tactical, you use right-click-see, and left-click attack when it is the opposite out of tactical... *insert Mal raised eyebrow WTF here*

ETA: I almost forgot: being able to, say, barrier your party by selecting the ability and then the avatar of the party member/s you want. Please bring that back. Again, on smaller screens, you can't always see your party on the ground when they're, say, behind a dragon (and by "wee screen", I am talking 16 inch lappy, here, I'm not using a notebook!). Simple functionalities, previously taken for granted in this franchise. So missing them. /sigh

 

2. By "click to move" I think people mean similar, again, to DA:O. For example, I miss, very very much, the ability to select my entire party and left click to run all of them to a specific point in front, behind... wherever. With those little gold arrowy things so you know exactly where everyone ends up. In one click. Essentially, the function is (sort of) now covered by the "disengage" button (tell party to stop attacking and follow) but this is less precise. You can move people, one by one, in tactical, but....geez. That's been covered by others so I won't belabour the point--just add my voice to the whhhyyyyyyy mob. :D

 

3. This has been addressed, as well, but to reiterate: lack of mouse support greatly reduces the ability for anyone with any sort of hand/limb disability to play. You guys have done such a good job at promoting inclusivity in DA:I (I am not one who you will see complaining about all the choices for females for once, or whining about Dorian, who is effing fantastic, or Krem, for example). So the lack of disability support in KB&M seems like an oversight--probably an unintentional one, as I am aware this is being worked on.

 

4. Tactical camera, especially on laptop screens, with no real zoom up: try it. Especially when those rifts are way up there (like the level 12 one in the Hinterlands and, oh, the one with the first boss. Really. Try it. On a wee screen. You'll understand why I want to hit someone, badly, and not in-game. ;-)

 

5. UI comments:

a) mages and only 8 spells. [pouty]I hate you guys[/pouty]. I understand you want us to think about choices, blah blah, but it seems to be a bit... I dunno... bloody mindedness for the sake of bloody mindedness. Remember the UI bar you could click and drag across the entire screen in DA:O? It'd take me until Awakening to fill that--even using slots for pots and one to get to herbalism/traps etc--even on a mage. I'm also okay with DA2's bar (which is more console friendly, too, of course). EIGHT spells. Including for specialisations. Whimper.

 

b ) No. Just that. Only 8 slots.

 

Another note re: UI: it has been mentioned, by you guys, that you wanted a more "Skyrim" feel to the game. One of the very first things that was "fixed" by users for Skyrim was the effing awful UI. One you've emulated. Not really what you guys meant? :-D

 

SIDE NOTE: re: crashes. The engine is... um... imperfect, especially for lots of cutscenes, in a game with lots of cutscenes (and the memory leakage is appalling). I'm using the FPS fix so mine will play above 30, which mostly fixed it (although Varric's cutscene, disappointingly, after a certain event which requires you to make a certain choice in which I chose his friend [don't judge me! Alistair was the Warden! Why ohgodsmakerandraste, WHY!!!?], ran at about 2fps even with the fix). A simple line of code added to the startup to overcome the frostbite engine that is so simple it stumps me that this line was not simply added to the game. However, it is also worth noting that every single time I have had an actual "crash to desktop" event, the Origin client has been involved. It spikes to a 100k+ kb useage. Now, that is not a lot, it seems, in the scheme of things--but Steam only uses 40k kb when it spikes and Battlenet is similar. Steam usually runs at about 27k, bnet at 36k--and my entire Windows OS? 36k. Origin runs over 60k even when it is not spiking. Testing, these crashes have occurred whether the Origin client is online or offline and whether my computer is connected to the internet or not (so sending data back and forth is not a factor). I am not saying the Origin client is the problem, but it does seem to be involved. Something to send back to The Powers That Be Patching.

Hope that helps,

Beth. :)


  • Tajoumaru, AndreyBlaze, Brogan et 3 autres aiment ceci

#4002
Payload

Payload
  • Members
  • 16 messages

Bought the game during launch and to my surprise, I realized it was not what I expected.Therefore, I've put it away until there is more word from Bioware on this matter. I thought I read someplace that they planned to add the mechanics from Origins and the art style from DA2 but can't seem to find anything in this game related to Origins. I noticed that AutoAttack, Toggle Walk, Click to move are all gone except when you go into TacCam, which is horrendous. I can't seem to get used to the TacCam no matter how hard I try. As a rsult, I simply hate using it.
 
I tried playing with my brothers Xbox 360 controller but simply dislike it because my thumb starts to ache when trying to walk with my character for some time. I am so used to my arms resting on my computer table and playing with a controller feels very awkward, especially playing with an rpg game which has numerous keys and shortcuts.
 
They are really trying hard to cater this game to the console gamers but I know for a fact, this game is screaming PC inside.
 
Please Bioware, for the Makers sake, fix all these problems related to the PC so that I can enjoy this game.

 

I know I am repeating what has been stated a million time however, since this is my first post I want Bioware to know how serious this is for all their PC fans!

 

Toggle-Walk

Click-To-Move

Auto-Attack

Origins Style Tac-Cam

 

 

Click Below

Dragon Age: Inquisition - Made for PC Gamers by PC Gamers


  • Jamesgirl, Lostspace et Alistaur aiment ceci

#4003
Jenrais

Jenrais
  • Members
  • 192 messages

I put the game away for now too. The banter bug is just ruining my experience.



#4004
Enseiryuu

Enseiryuu
  • Members
  • 3 messages

Fix the targeting system who tested the melee character did a really bad job. Any boss/mob that sits on top of even a slight elevation makes it really hard to fight. Also why is it there are some area in a map that a boss/mob can teleport to and make it almost near impossible to fight as a melee character.

 

EXAMPLE boss in the fade he likes to teleport around and if he ends up in the corner near the roots I just make my dw rogue sit in the corner and hope he comes out. . . . .

 

If a mob moves even 3 inches to the left your skill misses ...why? I don't know how frustrating it is as a rogue to sneak and twin fang to have the target start to move a little and you miss completely . . . . 



#4005
Selzisv

Selzisv
  • Members
  • 10 messages

Bought the game during launch and to my surprise, I realized it was not what I expected.Therefore, I've put it away until there is more word from Bioware on this matter. I thought I read someplace that they planned to add the mechanics from Origins and the art style from DA2 but can't seem to find anything in this game related to Origins. I noticed that AutoAttack, Toggle Walk, Click to move are all gone except when you go into TacCam, which is horrendous. I can't seem to get used to the TacCam no matter how hard I try. As a rsult, I simply hate using it.
 
I tried playing with my brothers Xbox 360 controller but simply dislike it because my thumb starts to ache when trying to walk with my character for some time. I am so used to my arms resting on my computer table and playing with a controller feels very awkward, especially playing with an rpg game which has numerous keys and shortcuts.
 
They are really trying hard to cater this game to the console gamers but I know for a fact, this game is screaming PC inside.
 
Please Bioware, for the Makers sake, fix all these problems related to the PC so that I can enjoy this game.

 

I know I am repeating what has been stated a million time however, since this is my first post I want Bioware to know how serious this is for all their PC fans!

 

Toggle-Walk

Click-To-Move

Auto-Attack

Origins Style Tac-Cam

 

 

Click Below

Dragon Age: Inquisition - Made for PC Gamers by PC Gamers

 

 

WHAAAT!? Guys, this is too much. I swear I am not a hater, I'm loving the game, but that video reminds me of something. I was pleased to see that PC gamers would be having a nice tactical mode and well, we all now how that ended.

 

Now please, please watch the video inside this quote, and and go to 0:15. You will see how they manipulate DA:I's tactical camera WITH MOUSE POINTER, NOT WITH THE STUPID CIRCLE EMULATING A CONTROLLER. Seriously, what the hell.

 

This kind of advertisement is dishonest :(

 

"You'll be super super pleased with it" YEAH, RIGHT. It doesn't seem that way, does it?



#4006
Danoniero

Danoniero
  • Members
  • 123 messages

That movie just show lies lies lies and lies....



#4007
Gothfather

Gothfather
  • Members
  • 1 418 messages

half of the issues you talk about (tactics, search, ability slots) are really not the central issues of this thread and i don't think those design choices can be blamed by console, so not sure why you are bringing those up.  There are other threads complaining more on those issues and its probably a mix of console and pc users complaining.

 

I have only read through a little bit of this thread but I feel the central issues here are:

 

1.  Many pc users have had a lot of stability problems and unable to play the game

 

2.  The tactical cam is badly designed for kyb+ms.  That's great that you were able to get used to this badly designed feature but others can not.  When you have a controller you move around that cursor on the ground, which makes sense with a controller.  But when you switch to keyboard and mouse that cursor is still there and you have to move it with WASD.  Why?  it does not make sense, you should just be able to pan around the battlefield with your mouse and get rid of the second cursor.  This is a great example to show that the tactical cam was developed for controllers.  And of course more zoom, but this applies to pc and console.

 

3.  third person view should have auto attack and click to move.  And saying you can just use tactical cam is not a good argument.  What if someone prefers playing in third person view, or since the tac cam is so horrible most don't want to use tac cam.   If you are able to do these things in tactical cam there is no reason they can't also allow you to do it in third person.  Playing a melee class in third person with kyb+ms and no auto attack is difficult.  I tried a melee class with a controller and it actually is a lot easier without auto attack and makes sense, so another way to show that this game was designed with controllers in mind.

 

4.  UI definitely seems very console oriented

 

5.  For anyone with a hand disability they are either unable to play this game or are having a very hard time.  Movement for character and tac cam forces use of both hands and a lot of repetitive movement with certain things like search.  Fixing issues 2 and 3 would go a long way to helping some play.  Other issues were not being able to move with rmb+lmb and being able to bind keys to the mouse.  This doesn't just apply to gamers with disabilities, others also miss these controls / are having a hard time without them.

 

anything i missed?

 

worst of all i felt mislead, from their advertising for pc gamers, and also all the reviews for this game fail to mention any of these issues.  Yes i could have returned it but i missed the 24 hour window, and i am hopeful bioware will fix at least some of these issues.

 

Most of this thread is filled with claims and very few speifics and I notice that when many of the specifics are refruted people claim those are just outliers and you  can't count them. No they are not its just shows how much of this thread is based on emotion vs actual facts. So yes it was important to show just how much of the QQ over consles made the game bad is BS.

 

1. I did address those issues in my post which is simply DA:I is not a standard PC release title it closer akin to a "benchmark" release title. Aka if you are hoping to have a good experience with less than recommended level system requirements then this isn't the game for you. You can tell this  game was a high end game because of just high those recommended settings are. I had to upgrade my video card because I had stability issues, it was the only thing below reccomended levels. When I did so ALL my stability issues went away. Which is not to say everyone's issues are the same but I suspect a vast portion of the technical issues are people ASSUMING that they didn't really need to have a recommented system to enjoy the game. ANd who's fault is that?

 

2.I got it to work because I used the tools they gave me aka keybinds to make it more comfortale. This BS "I'm glad you got it to work for you" argument, is just a ruse to ignore the issues that the Tac cam works and while it has limitations its not a failure of PC design. they have cursor controls and they have camera center controls. They told us they wanted the Tac cam to be PC friendly but they ALSO told us they wanted consoles to have access to the feature they never had. How did PC gamers not clue in to this important fact? The tac cam is designed not for consol first with a PC after thought but designed to be used but BOTH systems equally. EXACTLY how Bioware told us they were approaching the system. This isn't a surprise. This was fully disclosed. The default control setting for the tac cam in PC suck but so do the default movement settings to every bloody PC game i have bought. WASD movement sucks as I don't want to turn with a keyboard I want to turn with the mouse. But I don't blame anyone I simply Change the settings.

 

3. Why should it be this way? VERY few games use click to walk. It is NOT an industry standard while wasd to move is. I can see the argument that I prefer this i want this, but its just BS to claim it SHOULD be this way and that if not this way as some kind of failure of PC development. This game is based off a SHOOTER engine I can't think of a single shooter that has click to walk. (Granted i don't like shooters so I don't know any but I still can't think of any.) I think combat should be different from tac mode and 3rd person mode as it gives people options on how to play and merging the controls of both means you no longer have two different ways to play the game. So this idea that if its possible in tac cam mode it should be possible in 3P mode isn't defensible. Sure you can argue I prefer to click to move but thats not a failure in design for PC thats simply a preference not being met.

 

4. The UI is functional and any sort of expected computer controls like drag and drop are there so... HOW IS THIS A SIGN OF A FAILURE TO PC GAMERS? Not liking the UI is almost universal in all games. I see constant UI mods for PC only games in the MMO community so I find this is not limited to consol ports but frankly people like different things from a UI. Its just an easy target to blame it on consols. When in reality all games get UI complaints from gamers simply because every one wants something different in a UI.

 

5. When did Bioware promise you could play DA:I one handed? It was disclosed early that DA:I was being developed with a FPS engine, what FPS games can you play with one hand? Origin has a generous return policy if you ASSUMED you could play with one hand but cant you had the option to return the game for a FULL refund. Thats a very fair refund policy. This is such a BS issue. Keyboard and Mouse IMPLY two hands as they are two seperate imput devices designed to be used in tandom. It should be the EXPECTATION that you require two hands to use both these imput devices at the same time which is the default assumption developers make AND NOT AN UNREASONABLE ASSUMPTION. The fact that in past games it was possible to play with one hand a DA title in no way obligates Bioware to make DA:I one hand friendly. Bioware NOT manking DA:I one hand friendly has ZERO relivance to this idea that Bioware decieved or lied or EA is engaging in business malpractise. Bioware is not responsible for peoples ASSUMPTIONS. They were promised a Keyboard and Mouse inferface and they got one. They never promised said interface would be one handed friendly.

 

You missing the 24 hour window is you OWN fault, the 24 hours only starts AFTER you play the game for the first time or if you don't play the game you have a week after you download it, or a week after launch for people to predownload it. So if you missd the window after 24 hours you played the game and KNEW the situation you failing to act to get a refund is hardly EA/Bioware's fault.

 

I don't think this game without need for improvement. The tac cam needs a high top down view, the ability to rebind mouse keys is also a fix needed, Optimization of performance is again all things that need work. But in no way to these issues equate to Bioware failing PC users or lying. This thread is just so the I want DA:O2 crowd can blame all the parts of the game they don't like on consoles when MOST things not all are actually design choices that had nothing to do with consoles. Its a meaningless mantra Pc gamers use all the time do like a feature? Blame it on the consoles!. I even saw PC gamers doing the same thing for the witcher 2 and that game is PC only. The reason why they do it is because its a mantra now and has almost zero conection to reality.



#4008
Razael

Razael
  • Members
  • 74 messages

I wish the scan wasnt in the game.. It ruins so much! Running around pressing v and standing still to see if you even can find the damn thing, and the sound drives me crazy.. Make it like DA:O for crying out loud, it worked perfectly!

 

Dragon Age: Submarine


  • Lady Mutare, Rencor2k, brzoz et 3 autres aiment ceci

#4009
Rencor2k

Rencor2k
  • Members
  • 374 messages

Dragon Age: Submarine

I just hid my comment because it was in the wrong thread. But this made me giggle.



#4010
Aleph One

Aleph One
  • Members
  • 40 messages

Another reason for allowing players to use the mouse for moving (holding LMB+RMB) their character:

 

Using one hand to move and use abilities at the same time can be awkward. If you're able to move your character around with the mouse, it frees up your other hand to use abilities. This is something I miss greatly from the previous games. I was able to keep my fingers rested on number keys 2-5 and effectively press whatever I needed without having to contort my fingers/hand to keep my character moving.


  • Lady Mutare aime ceci

#4011
Gothfather

Gothfather
  • Members
  • 1 418 messages

Yea, and I'm sure you'll be just as baffled when the patches come out and EA/Bioware ends up making some simple changes/compromises that make everybody happy.

 

Again, congrats to you on figuring out a suitable way to remap your keys.  Maybe we can all head over to your place this weekend and you can show us how you like to arrange your sock drawer.

 

 

I'd be happy to tell people my tac cam keybinds if anyone wants them oh wait you are not serious silly me...

 

I noticed you couldn't refute my actual points leanding my claims to your position being a strawman more credibility.



#4012
Razael

Razael
  • Members
  • 74 messages

 

I noticed you couldn't refute my actual points leanding my claims to your position being a strawman more credibility.

 

I think I can speak for more than one person when I say that we are not here to waste time. Last refute I can think of is when you said trees are the reason why the cam will be inevitably blocked with the environment. Yes, I see how conifer trees can grow on every single environment this game has (?).

 

Over and out.


  • CarnieHeart aime ceci

#4013
Thaumatos

Thaumatos
  • Members
  • 2 messages
 

 

Frankly I have no idea what the issue is with some PC gamers. While I find the tactical camera has limitations its functionality is very good. Its major limitation for me is that it doesn't scroll out far enough to provide a proper view of the battle from a top down perspective. I can get all the functionality from the tactics camera and the current level of tactics & behaviours provides me with the tools to shape the battle. I am required to MANAGE my party now vs letting the AI do all the heavy lifting. I don't think that is a bad thing.

Honestly I think managing your party should be a requirement of only the highest level of difficulty.  I've played all classes and I can tell you, beyond the shadow of a doubt, 4 players could make easy work of this game on nightmare.  I don't manually control all of them on 'hard' and they manage to skate by most encounters.

 

The character AI is terrible.  This isn't necessarily something new to the DA saga though; they've always been rather bad.  AI has never done any 'heavy lifting' in the DA saga.  It's just that before you had healing spells or '% of hp' potions.  In DA:I, you're required to have your party play well and make up for the lack of heals with guard, barrier, stealth, and movement.  The AI seems to have an improper grasp of almost all of that.  Hell the barrier goes up about 5 seconds before you even engage combat.  What a waste.  A well-played tank will never need barrier...yet the AI tanks seem to take HP damage more often than gaining guard.  

 

In short, character AI choices need to have little more heft than just "follow me" or "use this skill more often".

 

I have found that on nightmare I am required to use the tactical cam to win boss fights. This means I got over my initial awkwardness of the controls, I rebound the tactical camera controls so wasd moves the camera forward/back and left/right vs moving the camera forward/back and turning the camera left or right. That went a LOOOOONG way in getting  comfortable with the tac cam. Using the mouse to turn in tac cam and the keys to move the camera  gave me a unified control system for each input device. The default controls divide the turning the camera on the vertical & horizontal planes to 1/2on the keyboard and 1/2 on the mouse. Its no wonder its so awkward for most pc users. If the only way to turn the camera is via the mouse then it takes only a couple of combats to get use to the tac cam controls.

 

I found being forced to adjust to the tac cam because I was playing on the highest difficulty and changing the key binds for the tac cam resulted in me adapting to the game at hand. I now find it enjoyable and functional. I am jumping from party member to party member in battles. I feel full agency over my party and I found that in the tac cam mode they handle themselves very well.  

Regardless of my previous point, you shouldn't have to adjust the tac cam to play better on PC if the game was built "for" a PC.  The mere fact that you had to re-bind your keys to W, A, S, D shows quite clearly that PC wasn't given a whole lot of thought.  They set up DA:I's default control scheme on M&KB to that of an MMO. The Q and E keys move left and right and the A, and D keys turn the camera.  The reason?  Console stick controls work the same way.

 

That's all fine and good on console with two sticks, but port those controls over and you need to re-bind everything to proper drive-cam controls.  They hadn't even done that.  Add, on top of things, an improper bind set to the tac cam and you've got one funky set of controls.

 

The good part about PC is that you can re-bind your keys to suit your needs.  I guess that was their fall-back as far as testing is concerned.  Make sure its functional and then let the player sort out it's goofy scheme.  Just a bad move by EA/Bioware.  As if they needed more reasons for people to complain.

 

 

I think people didn't get the game they wanted so need to lash out and they blame it on consoles, really much of the QQ is based on design choices Bioware has taken from PC only games. The search mechanic has NOTHING to do with consoles, it was taken from the witcher 2 a PC only game. Now you can argue that you don't like it that it is an immersive breaking feature and do so fairly but it is simply ignorant to blame this on consoles. Second much maligned feature blamed on consoles is the limited active powers you can use. Again this was a feature first developed on a pc only game, GUILD WARS. Now you can argue that you don't like it, that it limits your choices in combat or that there in no need for this in a single player game, but it is ignorant to blame it on consoles.

 

It is logically inconsistent to blame design features that first appeared on PC only games and attribute these features to being in DA:I because of consoles. It doesn't make sense. Its almost a meaningless mantra of SOME PC gamers to blame any design feature they don't like on consoles.

You keep saying "PC only game" as if EA/Bioware blatantly explained that users were going to buy a 'made for console' PC game.  They didn't.  The biggest issue here is that DA:I was said to have been made "by PC, for PC"...clearly they meant "it was made on a PC and can be played on PC".  The "by PC, for PC" ploy is designed to give people the idea that you'll be given a UI that utilizes the M&KB input method to its fullest.  The design of the UI was to support an ease-of-access to the controller.  Plain and simple.  If that's too hard for you to see, you shouldn't make comments on it.  

 

DA:I has the most basic UI of all the DA saga.  Its also functionally poor (on M&KB) trying to navigate through.  Details remain from previous items, skill trees can only be moved in certain areas, back/forth arrows go missing, I could write up an entire database of defects in HP ALM for these guys...but I'm not a tester.  I'm a consumer.  Most of these things are extremely simple, easy to spot, and should have been ironed out already.

 

Bottom line?  They didn't devote enough testing time to the PC UI.

 

Would it be nice to have more options?  Hell yes...but it'd also be nice for the game to not 'feel' so much like a console port.  Which it obviously is.

 

 

I do know that the controls going from one form of combat to the next to NOT flow so players wanting a seamless transition from one form to the next are going to have a problem. I use click to walk in combat all the time, it simply something I accept not being able to do in "action" mode and since I don't want to play in "action" mode its not a problem for me. I think the major issues SOME PC users are having is they want action combat to behave like tac combat without having to go into tactical combat mode. This said I do use "action" mode combat for scrubs as its easier with a long range heavy party. But if too many of them reach my party and are in melee range I switch to tac camera and I have full agency over my companions. I really don't think it is a step backwards for game play to limit what options can be scripted for the AI by the player. DA:O was dumbed down combat because the tactics could do all the work. When combat is such that you don't have to do much at all but let your scripts make all  the combat decisions then combat is DUMBED down. When you LIMIT what you can do with scripts so it FORCES the player to make tactical decision vs letting a script do it you have not by definition dumbed down combat, You have forced combat to be more of an intellectual endeavour because YOU must determine when to react to X threat with y ability. This means you have to regulate your companions abilities and behaviours so you can make these choices when needed. 

 

Case in point I run a tank, ranged rogue (Pc), and two barrier mages, party. One barrier mage I keep his mana reserve at 50% and remove barrier from the rotation of spells. The second barrier mage I keep  their reserve at 30% and put barrier as a priority. This allows me to ALMOST always have barrier ready and waiting to slap on my tank and keeps one mage always putting up a barrier when its ready protecting the group. This combo gives means I don't have to micromanage barrier but allows me to put up a timely barrier when my tank gets into trouble or any other party member for that matter. Now I am still working out what behaviours are best for what role but the game is new. I have been able to adapt to the system in DA:I and I enjoy that party combat is now no longer a "Set up my tactics perfectly, start combat, go get a coffee, come back and pick up my loot," affair anymore. I think its a huge step forward in game play when the player is actually REQUIRED to make combat decisions.

 

You run an archer archtype with two mages and a tank.  So...have you ever played the tank?  Do you know what the AI ranged classes do when you enter melee at the start of combat?  They walk right up next to you and cast/shoot.  When you tell them to 'hold position', they do so for about 10-20 seconds.  There's nothing tactical about having to pause every so often to tell your rangers and mages to keep out of melee range.  It's just dumb AI that makes them walk up to you as a player character.  And no, they're not set to "follow/defend controlled character".

 

As I've said before, a well-played tank doesn't need barrier.  Yet you run two barrier mages.  Why?  Because the AI is too dumb to use the guard mechanic properly.  On a knight enchanter mage, barrier can last the entire cooldown of the skill.  If your tank had even the slightest bit of intelligence, it'd be able to keep at least enough guard up for barrier to be re-cast without taking HP damage.  Yet I'm sure s/he dies a fair bit.

 

All in all, your gameplay style is tac cam.  Good for you.  For those of us who want to use tac cam as little as possible, we should be able to.  I shouldn't have to play Starcraft when I play DA:I.  I like the tac cam...but I don't like the tac cam as much as you like the tac cam.


  • CarnieHeart, Tajoumaru et Bethgael aiment ceci

#4014
MrWobinson

MrWobinson
  • Members
  • 2 messages

I get a crash with a Direct X error after about 10 mins play and have to go back and endlessly repeat the previous 5 mins. The error says "DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_HUNG"

 

Also I cant help myself pressing "Space" when in a tight spot in a fight. Previously this would have paused things but now I just jump which usually results in my untimely death.

 

 I have given up for now and play FarCry4 but check every couple of days for a patch but sadly it is never there. On that note how will we know when these issues are fixed. Is there a mailing list I could subscribe to that only says when the game is playable. I don't want to spend my life searching.



#4015
Razael

Razael
  • Members
  • 74 messages

I just hid my comment because it was in the wrong thread. But this made me giggle.

 

lol... but yea... this is what was breaking my immersion the few hours that I played. I didn't bother to test what the radius of the radar was so that I could spam it every  5? 10? seconds. Would be nice to know actually. Anyone know?



#4016
Tarzilman

Tarzilman
  • Members
  • 41 messages

Now please, please watch the video inside this quote, and and go to 0:15. You will see how they manipulate DA:I's tactical camera WITH MOUSE POINTER, NOT WITH THE STUPID CIRCLE EMULATING A CONTROLLER. Seriously, what the hell.

 

Didn't recognize it the first time, but damn, you're right.



#4017
Brogan

Brogan
  • Members
  • 2 190 messages

WHAAAT!? Guys, this is too much. I swear I am not a hater, I'm loving the game, but that video reminds me of something. I was pleased to see that PC gamers would be having a nice tactical mode and well, we all now how that ended.

 

Now please, please watch the video inside this quote, and and go to 0:15. You will see how they manipulate DA:I's tactical camera WITH MOUSE POINTER, NOT WITH THE STUPID CIRCLE EMULATING A CONTROLLER. Seriously, what the hell.

 

This kind of advertisement is dishonest :(

 

"You'll be super super pleased with it" YEAH, RIGHT. It doesn't seem that way, does it?

 

So that is not how it works, in game??



#4018
Vash654

Vash654
  • Members
  • 69 messages

I'd be happy to tell people my tac cam keybinds if anyone wants them oh wait you are not serious silly me...
 
I noticed you couldn't refute my actual points leanding my claims to your position being a strawman more credibility.



Lol you are very passionate about this aren't you. The question is why are you spending all this time typing up your lengthy posts when you could be enjoying the game that works great for you.

Bioware created this thread for us to share our concerns so that they can address them and possibly make it a better gaming experience for us. We (which seems to be pretty numerous) have done exactly that and you come in here ranting that our concerns that make this game less of an enjoyable experience are stupid? Lol just a troll trying to get a ruse out of some people.
  • CarnieHeart, TX-Toast, Bethgael et 2 autres aiment ceci

#4019
Brogan

Brogan
  • Members
  • 2 190 messages

Another reason for allowing players to use the mouse for moving (holding LMB+RMB) their character:

 

Using one hand to move and use abilities at the same time can be awkward. If you're able to move your character around with the mouse, it frees up your other hand to use abilities. This is something I miss greatly from the previous games. I was able to keep my fingers rested on number keys 2-5 and effectively press whatever I needed without having to contort my fingers/hand to keep my character moving.

 

Spoiler


  • Bethgael aime ceci

#4020
Brogan

Brogan
  • Members
  • 2 190 messages

I get a crash with a Direct X error after about 10 mins play and have to go back and endlessly repeat the previous 5 mins. The error says "DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_HUNG"

 

Also I cant help myself pressing "Space" when in a tight spot in a fight. Previously this would have paused things but now I just jump which usually results in my untimely death.

 

 I have given up for now and play FarCry4 but check every couple of days for a patch but sadly it is never there. On that note how will we know when these issues are fixed. Is there a mailing list I could subscribe to that only says when the game is playable. I don't want to spend my life searching.

 

You can remap pause to Space...

 

And if jump is needed often, I would map it to a thumb button on the mouse.



#4021
MrWobinson

MrWobinson
  • Members
  • 2 messages

You can remap pause to Space...

 

And if jump is needed often, I would map it to a thumb button on the mouse.

Thanks I will give it a go, That's assuming I can play long enough without a crash.



#4022
Bethgael

Bethgael
  • Members
  • 959 messages

You can remap pause to Space...

 

And if jump is needed often, I would map it to a thumb button on the mouse.

 

Yes. Despite being used to "space as jump" for WoW, I remapped it to C (near my thumb)--because it's not needed as much as pause--and space is always pause in DA games, dammit. Remapping to any mouse button is currently impossible.

And, Gothfather--just because it works for you? Doesn't mean it's okay for everyone else. Your way is not everyone's way. Arthritics can play DA:O using only an optimised mouse, for example. They can't do the same with DA:I. And Bio did say that DA:I would play like O & 2. It's the one thing I didn't even think would be different--and was the only thing I wasn't expecting would be screwy!

Also, I prefer action mode, and can play in "action" mode even in hard on DA:O and 2, with obviously more pausing as the difficulty increases. The tactics in those games was often, setting up your party's AI and tactics, like a fight meeting before the fight. Okay, Alistair, I'll go in hard, you protect Wynne from the Templars while Zev gets them from behind, okay?. Constant tactical as in DA:I breaks immersion, like "yelling" instructions as you go (really impractical in fights). I like to RP in my RPGs. Sorry if that offends. :)

[ETA: I have presumed "not troll" with my statement. It's great to come in and say, "hey this works for me using this", as I did further up the thread, and as others have-- "if you can stand to play ranged, here's a mouse map that helped me"; "here's a fix that might help crashing/fps problems while we wait for real solutions and you missed the refund cutoff", kind of thing. But there's a huge difference between : this worked for me, give it a try, and "it's fine for me so you're all stupid for complaining." You're doing the latter, intentional or not. Just a thought].


  • Tajoumaru et TobyJake aiment ceci

#4023
Gothfather

Gothfather
  • Members
  • 1 418 messages

Ha you even admitted the tac cam is flawed.  Also i don't consider it 100% functional when it gets stuck on the ground or when you cant see anything from it being blocked by terrain.  For a AAA game you shouldn't have to get over the awkward controls and deal with it, it should have been designed for kyb+pc in the first place, and hopefully they will address it in upcoming patches.

 

That's pretty heartless btw, especially since anyone with a disability was able to play the past DA games.  And really it will only take a few changes to help them play, rebindings to mouse, click to move, rmb+lmb move, autoattack third person etc.  I hope for these gamers bioware is keeping them in mind for the patch.

 

I said its 100% functional I did not say it is 100% flawless that is an unsubtle difference. I do not claim the game is perfect of not in need of improvement. I simply refute the claims PC gamers were lied to. They were not. That EA engaged in business malpractise, they did not.

 

Sorry but every AAA game I have ever played has AWKWARD controls for movement. The default keybinds of WASD for PC are antiquated and awkward. But a simple bit of rebinding wasd and POOF they are now responsive and effective. So yeah AAA game do have awkward keybinds all the time.

 

The majority of the awkwardness in the tac cam is (from my experience) that the default keybinds are counter intuitive.

 

w = move camera forward

A = turn the camera right

s  = move the camera back

d = turn the camera left

 

mouse = turn the camera left, right, tilt the axis along the vertical axis from looking straight down to looking almost parallel to the grown.

 

This default setting for the tac cam puts 1/2 the camera orientation controls on the keyboard and 1/2 on the mouse. Yet by rebinding two keys a & d you get a much less awkward and more responsive tac cam. Thats hardly a"wrok around" thats a simple bloody rebinding of the keys.

 

AND if YOU MUST ONLY USE THE MOUSE IN THE TAC CAM THEN PRESS THE FRAKING SHIFT KEY OR THE MIDDLE MOUSE BUTTON AND MOVE THE MOUSE which moves the camera

 

WHAAAT!? Guys, this is too much. I swear I am not a hater, I'm loving the game, but that video reminds me of something. I was pleased to see that PC gamers would be having a nice tactical mode and well, we all now how that ended.

 

Now please, please watch the video inside this quote, and and go to 0:15. You will see how they manipulate DA:I's tactical camera WITH MOUSE POINTER, NOT WITH THE STUPID CIRCLE EMULATING A CONTROLLER. Seriously, what the hell.

 

This kind of advertisement is dishonest :(

 

"You'll be super super pleased with it" YEAH, RIGHT. It doesn't seem that way, does it?

 

 

PLEASE tell me all you people QQ over the tac Cam controls know that if you press the FRAKING shift key it allows you 100% full mouse panning of the camera center cursor? It CLEARLY stated this in the keybinds.

 

DID NONE of you actually bother to LOOK in the keybinds to see the tac cam controls?

 

maybe now you see why SOME of us think all these claims against ea/Bioware on false advertising are unjustified.



#4024
Selzisv

Selzisv
  • Members
  • 10 messages

So that is not how it works, in game??

 

I'm afraid not, buddy. You move a damn circle through an axis with WASD, and the other by moving your mouse. To sum up, you control the camera with keyboard + mouse but you do it by replicating a left and right stick from a controller.

 

It is... it is... I don't know what it is. But it isn't what they show in that video, that's for sure.


  • Bethgael aime ceci

#4025
Neoideo

Neoideo
  • Members
  • 107 messages

Everything has been said, but nevertheless i will post my opinion to support this thread.

 

What needs to be fixed now:

 

- Tactical gameplay:

        - camera angles / zoom,

        - autoattack,

        - queue commands,

        - more programming AI options as in DA:O.

        - when i click on a character, I want the UI to show me who is he attacking.

 

- Make decent menus:

        - Tooltips are needed for skills, items, and many other things.

        - A list to navigate items ?? are you kidding me?  one word: GRID

        - There should not be any scrolling for looking at stats or putting talent points. Maybe just for scrolling a grid of inventory it would be ok.

        - There is so much improvement to the menus to be done.

 

- We need attribute points back, one per level as with DAO. It feels too arcade. RPG is about shaping your character along the game.

- Put health regeneration when out of combat, I dont know who came up with this horrible idea.

 

5) Windowed mode and full screen mode options have their functionalities inverted. Please fix it.

 

 

 

 

What I do like:

 

1) Ragdoll physics when enemies die. I really like it!! even when it is a small detail it adds interaction with the scenario.

It would have been even better if the knock back abilities would send the enemies flying back using physics too, instead of a scripted animation. The devs could have used more physics, there was so much potential to innovate there.

 

2) The non-played quests of the Inquisition Table map, where you dispatch an Inquisitor ally. It think is a great idea and works very good. Adds meaning and scale to the inquisition role. Very good move.

 

3) The Warrior really feels as a warrior. The shield mode feels hard and full of resistance. I hope when I play the other classes I get their respective feelings.

 

4) Combat animations, like the sword blows feel very good, they feel heavy. Also the Mage skills feel so real, like the Frost Nova. This aspect is so much better than in DAO where combat used to have uniform speed animations.

 

5) World size, free roam, one of the best features.

 

6) I am really happy that enemies do not re-scale their level according to the players level. As it is, is perfect.

 

 

That is all, most of the problems can be fixed by just moving back to DAO in those aspects. We are all shouting for better UI and Tactical combat gameplay!!!


  • Tajoumaru et Bethgael aiment ceci