19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

No justification REALLY?

 

I seem to remember a time when a screen was a perfectly useful device without the ability to use touch as an imput device. Yet someone reivented the "wheel" and now we have tablets and smart phones all with reivented "wheels." Seems perfect justification for companies to ALWAYS try an innovate to me. Sometimes your inovations work sometimes they don't.

 

I still remember people QQing how unnecessary touch screens where when the iphone first came out. Then people got use to the new innovation and its now a standard. But I guess in your version of the perfect world there are no innovations anymore.

That's a fair enough argument - however - and I might be the odd one out here - I found DA2 to suffer from the same problems as DAI in regards to tactical combat (in that it doesn't really exist as it did in DAO).

 

So while I'm all for innovation, innovation doesn't always lead to success and sometimes leads to steps backwards. In this case, they didn't innovate beyond the steps backwards from DA2 and instead added poor controls and accessibility.

 

I'm all for innovation, and reinventing the wheel...

 

...but we've taken two steps back with the previous two Dragon Age games now. Maybe it's time to go back to the original and innovate from their, rather than the failed innovation of the second.

[Gothfather]

That's a fair enough argument - however - and I might be the odd one out here - I found DA2 to suffer from the same problems as DAI in regards to tactical combat (in that it doesn't really exist as it did in DAO).

 

So while I'm all for innovation, innovation doesn't always lead to success and sometimes leads to steps backwards. In this case, they didn't innovate beyond the steps backwards from DA2 and instead added poor controls and accessibility.

 

I'm all for innovation, and reinventing the wheel...

 

...but we've taken two steps back with the previous two Dragon Age games now. Maybe it's time to go back to the original and innovate from their, rather than the failed innovation of the second.

 

In Specific terms what can't you do in DA:I in terms of tactical combat that you you could do in DA:O?

 

Are you saying the enemies do not require tactics to defeat?

 

Are you saying you can't do X?

 

Is this a complaint that the controls are clunky?

 

Specifically where does DA:I fail?

 

I think DA2 failed the mark in multiple ways and but I can't say that DA:I is yet another step backwards from DA2. Seems to me that they addressed multiple areas that failed in DA2 and improved on them.

[Vash654]

If I was a troll i wouldn't have more like than i have made posts.

 

I have no problem with people saying I want X because I like X.

 

I have a problem with people claiming they were lied to, that EA/Bioware has engaged in business malpractise with DA:I or the mutliple claims that this design feature is a direct result of this being a console port when many of these very features were FIRST used in PC only games and hense they were never designed originally because of console support so you really can't claim they are here because of a bad console port.

 

I directed my first post today to SOME PC gamers who made some false claims. I did not make a claim that all post were without merit. I clearly stated that there are issues but I also clearly stated that some of the CLAIMS are at best ignorance or at worse outright lies designed to present a stronger case than one really has.

 

You as a PC gamer have NOT been lied to. Any expectations you had that were not met, you are responsible for if you were not lied to. Consumers making assumptions based on what they are told are also their responsibility and NOT Bioware's. You should not assume anything when buying a product. EA has a GENEROUS return policy so any customer that bought this product and didn't like it COULD have return the product for 100% of their money back. This protects any consumer that bought the product thinking it was x but actually got y. 

 

If you don't like X then go ahead and say I don't like X but don't expect other people to stay silent if you claim of why you don't like X is filled with falsehoods.

 

I get why some gamers don't like some things, I don't get why some gamers are claiming they were lied to or that everything bad about DA:I Pc is because its a bad console port especially when they actually gives specifics it turns out they are simply wrong. Like search, like you can't use the mouse to move the tac cam, that the 8 ability limitation is a console issue. 

 

So go ahead say you want X, shout loud that y sucks and I will say nothing. Claim you were lied to or that anything you don't like is because of a console with no supporting evidence then yeah I am going to speak out.

Ok : ) you avoided what i said and went off on some tangent about pc gamers claiming they were lied to, which why do you even care? lol. 

 

but i still see you are still forcing your experiences on other people. So just because it works for you it definitely should work for other people : P

[BammBamm]

Ok : ) you avoided what i said and went off on some tangent about pc gamers claiming they were lied to, which why do you even care? lol. 

 

but i still see you are still forcing your experiences on other people. So just because it works for you it definitely should work for other people : P

 

isnt this the case when people complaining about a broken console port because it works not for them too?

[Vash654]

isnt this the case when people complaining about a broken console port because it works not for them too?

That's the case for everything i would say

[abearzi]

WASD in the tac cam is 100% OPTIONAL if you don't want to ever use wasd for the tack cam then don't you have two mouse contrl options available.

 

1) press the middle mouse button

 

2) Press LMB+RMB together

 

and like magic you can move the tac cam around with just the mouse.

 

Its either you don't actually understand the nature of the complaint, or you're Bioware apologist. Doing either of those is less functional than the standard of screen-edging movement. The reason it is standard is because it is better. Shift should be a modifier (which it is for the tac-cam alone, bizarrely) which allows for access to more key-binds, not to access what should be the standard method of camera movement. The same applies to holding the mouse buttons. There is literally no need for that when every game which incorporates a free-roaming bird's eye view does that without having to waste two bindable keys.

 

This is of course tied into the generally shitty access to larger toolbars, LMB being unconfigurable, non-recognition of gaming mice, etc. The tac-cam movement is merely a symptom of the larger cancer of bad UI design for the PC platform. It is one of the most egregious problems, and so gets a lot of attention. 

 

 

In Specific terms what can't you do in DA:I in terms of tactical combat that you you could do in DA:O?

 

Are you saying the enemies do not require tactics to defeat?

 

Are you saying you can't do X?

 

Is this a complaint that the controls are clunky?

 

Specifically where does DA:I fail?

 

I think DA2 failed the mark in multiple ways and but I can't say that DA:I is yet another step backwards from DA2. Seems to me that they addressed multiple areas that failed in DA2 and improved on them.

 

Since you are being willfully obtuse and belligerent here, I will attempt to write down to your level.

• Party members do not hold position beyond a very very limited range, as they could in DAO
• Party members cannot be set to defensive, aggressive, or passive, a they could in DAO
• Party members leash when the player character moves a trivial distance away, unlike in DAO
• Tactics cannot be assigned, as they do not exist, which they did in both DAO and DA2
• Most fights require scant tactical planning on even the hardest difficulties, with the exception of a few bosses, which was not the case in DAO
• Party and Enemy AI is abysmally bad, dragons in particular.
• DAI fails at UI accessability
• DA2's "wave combat" has morphed into endless and often instant respawns until a zone is fully cleared, unlike either DAO or DA2
• DAI's melee combat is a disaster on a KB+M
• DAI fails at attribute allocation, as it no longer exists at all, unlike either DAO or DA2
• FPS caps in cutscenes are badly done, and until a patch actually fixes these (not simply promises of a possible patch which may or may not actually address this) if is bad.

I could probably come up with more, but hopefully you begin to get the point.

[MadWild]

guys you are derailing the topic, which is what Godfather wants.

[BammBamm]

guys you are derailing the topic, which is what Godfather wants.

 

c'mon, constructive feedback is dead in this topic since page 20

[Tajoumaru]

c'mon, constructive feedback is dead in this topic since page 20

 

Here’s some constructive feedback in the form of a major request: Please, please remove the save-at-anytime feature, and instead give us designated save points only (preferably far apart) so that the "consolification" of the Dragon Age experience is complete.

 

In all seriousness, coming directly from a replay of DA:O to DA:I has been a massive debacle in terms of controls and overall immersion (in that I cannot become immersed because the controls and other critical aspects are so incredibly off). DA:I just isn't a party-friendly game, especially on PC sans proper controls and available mappings; it's more like some awkward hybrid between DA:O and Skyrim (or even The Witcher). Maybe DA:I shoulda been a full-fledged first-person action-RPG with only one follower at a time in tow--at least that way the hack ‘n’ slash control scheme would work better and make more sense, and there would be a major title in that genre to fill the void until TES VI is released.

 

Not PC-related, but I have to ask--what's up with some of the visuals? The shiny, plasticky hair and prop-beards? The overly androgynous women? The incredibly narrow and fragile-looking male elves with squished shoulders? The astounding difficulty of creating an attractive (or even feminine) female character? Some visuals are great, but the poorly-implemented and peculiar ones seriously detract from the lovely and rich ones.

 

Full, detailed post about PC-specific issues coming later. Thanks to BioWare for reading!

[halfnhalf]

Okay Bioware hasn't responded in a while. Can some of you ask them over on Twitter for an update, I don't have a twitter account.

[Han Master]

Here a statement to all the trolls, PC > consoles.

[Icinix]

In Specific terms what can't you do in DA:I in terms of tactical combat that you you could do in DA:O?

 

Are you saying the enemies do not require tactics to defeat?

 

Are you saying you can't do X?

 

Is this a complaint that the controls are clunky?

 

Specifically where does DA:I fail?

 

I think DA2 failed the mark in multiple ways and but I can't say that DA:I is yet another step backwards from DA2. Seems to me that they addressed multiple areas that failed in DA2 and improved on them.

 

Most of the time enemies don't require tactics to defeat. It helps on higher difficulty, but it's not required. Now I'm fine with that, I really am, but the tactical side of things has been reduced to a point where it seems to exist simply for the sake of existing because it did once upon a time.

 

As for the control side of things, there is a host of issues with tactical view, the first is it doesn't go anywhere near high enough and the second is that it's optimised for a controller. It just happens to have support for keyboard and mouse in the barest sense of the meaning.

 

There are other issues too, such as players not holding their position and the inability to cue multiple moves.

 

Of course, the rate of cool down and stamina regeneration coupled with the limited slots for abilities goes back to making the tactical side of things something that exists just so they could say it does.

 

The hold mouse button to attack coupled with the bizarre continual direction attack when holding the mouse button, rather than the direction you just pressed on WASD comes across as though it couldn't work out what it quite wanted to be during development.

 

Then there is the other issues such as the mouse cursor being such a similar colour to the majority of the grass means that during combat on high res displays I seem to lose my cursor a lot.

 

There are a lot of little things like that, that indicate there was not a lot of keyboard + mouse testing throughout development, and the 'tactical' side of things was merely included to try and convince people who loved the combat mechanics of DAO that they're thinking of them.

 

If you think it's great, awesome, good for you, but for myself and many others - the combat, controls and tactical side of things is another dropped ball by BioWare. Which is a shame, because if DAI had actually made an effort in these departments - it would have probably been a game for the ages.

[tpho99]

If you think it's great, awesome, good for you, but for myself and many others - the combat, controls and tactical side of things is another dropped ball by BioWare. Which is a shame, because if DAI had actually made an effort in these departments - it would have probably been a game for the ages.

 

Yesh. The content itself, all aspects of it, is a masterpiece. Well, as far as I've played anyway.

 

But, the gameplay, combat and controls, including camera, just takes a huge dump on the content. So, I've been waiting for like almost two weeks to continue my game - or start over on nightmare again if tactical combat, macros and positioning allows it as it did in both DAO and DA2.

 

I keep coming back here to "Show Bioware posts only" every other day now, but it's magically stuck at 41 posts. I think Allan was told to keep out of here tbh, or maybe he was even fired. Who knows. Bioware wont tell us, anyway.

 

The lack of communication from Bioware is an insult. We are not told what to expect, or when to expect it - not even a vague hint. Like 2014? Who knows. It's even worse for those that cant even start their game, or play it for more than a few minutes before it crashes.

[Toothless Spoon]

Have we received any further updates tot he Sli bugs and other various things already mentioned?

[MrnDvlDg161]

You know I happened upon a good deal for a video card upgrade, and supposedly, by AMD standards, I should be able to play this thing on Ultra... but it crashes just the same. 

 

Now I'm somehow unable to leave Skyhold for opened areas. 

 

You know, going on with the rest of the game is becomming a game of it self... sometimes it will let me pass, other times not so much ---- it will let me make new weapons, talk to people without a hitch in skyhold --- then poof ---  total complete shut down.

 

I feel like I'm trapped on the space station that HAL is operating and I'm constantly attempting to make him sing  Daisy Bell in order to bypass his firewall bull----- to get somewhere.

[MadWild]

Last reply was last week, you can find out by clicking on the "Show only Bioware posts" (top right hand corner - net to reply to this topic button), then flick through the till the last post.

[MrnDvlDg161]

I think my favorite 5 cents thrown at me by a fellow PC gamer so far was:

 

" Well.... ahem...  " I "... happen to have an  Alienware gaming rig...and I would like to say that I've had no problems what so ever, having played 50 hours thus far so I don't know what your problem is..."

 

Well gee..  WOW...   SO HELPFULL!!!  I so wanted to have someone go out of their way just to roll out their  1200$ + tech as if hearing it magically did something to make thing just that more better.  I guess I should feel blessed?

 

I wonder what will happen next   "  Ahem...hey pal... YOU MAY have issues, but I just installed a  50 Tetrabite, liquid nano AI into my own brain and I now can download and play games just by blinking my eyes and hooking up to my I-Everything...which just happens to be surgically implanted to my  ______ k.    So....yeah.... No problems here dude!"   < --- this is a version of what Bioware help consists of at the moment.

[aliastasia]

Most of the time enemies don't require tactics to defeat. It helps on higher difficulty, but it's not required. Now I'm fine with that, I really am, but the tactical side of things has been reduced to a point where it seems to exist simply for the sake of existing because it did once upon a time.

 

 

I can shoot a video of that to prove the point, if anyone wants, I found a prime example of this.

Spoiler

At Adamant, I have Blackwall, varric and Dorian in the party.
I play two-hander.
First of all, it's just less hassle to take control of the ranged fighters and let the DPS' and tank.builds do their thing.
Secondly, when you arrive at the second pride demon - and I discovered this by accident. and can repeat it ad nauseam - if you stop just before the woodpile with the shades and just point Dorian at the demon, you can just hold the button down, and whittle it away. The demon won't move, the Shades move a little, and that's prety much all I did for a minute or so whilst finishing reading an article on Salon on my other screen.
THAT's how immersive and tactical combat is, and the rest isn't much better.
Take away tactics the way they were, and it's just a tedious mash-fest, most of the time, which makes the new features liek armour- and weapon-smitjing useless. You just get overpowered items and mash your mousebutton. Yay...

Also - I have a programmable mouse, so I have alleviated some of the hassle with the current KBM implementation, but it sure as hell is a major gameplay issue detracting from the game, because once you do get into the story, the writing, art and music do make it a pretty decent game.

[TobyJake]

isnt this the case when people complaining about a broken console port because it works not for them too?

You still here? Haven't made your point yet!

[jnd0e]

Dragon Age: Submarine

[Razael]

 

Haha, do one from 1 player third person from behind, substitute the player for a submarine and hitting the sonar at the same time

[jnd0e]

Haha, do one from 1 player third person from behind, substitute the player for a submarine and hitting the sonar at the same time

As soon as patch comes out. Maybe

[In Exile]

the actual list of things they are working on and plan to deliver without making it another empty, marketing show would be a nice change

 

And that is why they won't comment. Because it's impossible to say what they will deliver, and people take "we hope to do [X]" to mean "we will do [X]" because the developers publicly said it. 

[Gothfather]

Most of the time enemies don't require tactics to defeat. It helps on higher difficulty, but it's not required. Now I'm fine with that, I really am, but the tactical side of things has been reduced to a point where it seems to exist simply for the sake of existing because it did once upon a time.

 

As for the control side of things, there is a host of issues with tactical view, the first is it doesn't go anywhere near high enough and the second is that it's optimised for a controller. It just happens to have support for keyboard and mouse in the barest sense of the meaning.

 

There are other issues too, such as players not holding their position and the inability to cue multiple moves.

 

Of course, the rate of cool down and stamina regeneration coupled with the limited slots for abilities goes back to making the tactical side of things something that exists just so they could say it does.

 

The hold mouse button to attack coupled with the bizarre continual direction attack when holding the mouse button, rather than the direction you just pressed on WASD comes across as though it couldn't work out what it quite wanted to be during development.

 

Then there is the other issues such as the mouse cursor being such a similar colour to the majority of the grass means that during combat on high res displays I seem to lose my cursor a lot.

 

There are a lot of little things like that, that indicate there was not a lot of keyboard + mouse testing throughout development, and the 'tactical' side of things was merely included to try and convince people who loved the combat mechanics of DAO that they're thinking of them.

 

If you think it's great, awesome, good for you, but for myself and many others - the combat, controls and tactical side of things is another dropped ball by BioWare. Which is a shame, because if DAI had actually made an effort in these departments - it would have probably been a game for the ages.

 

1) I would agree that on lower diffficulties scrub fights are meaningless tactically speaking. I would also say that SOME are meaningless on Nightmare as well, perhaps its better to say SOME battles require you to be tactical against scrubs but most don't. Bosses, on Nightmare at least, require you to be tactical (at least i can't action mode a high dragon and trying to action mode the Pride demon in the prologue as a mage was a nightmare.)  I like tactical combat which is why i went with the hardest difficulty.

 

2) Specifically what is wrong with the controls? Exactly how is requiring you to press shift or the middle mouse button or both LMB+RMB together to pan around the battlefield barest sense of the meaning? You are required to push ONE button extra vs edge scrolling? This hardly strikes mean as being supported in the barest sense of the meaning? You CAN but are NOT required to move around the field of battle with wasd keyboard commands. They gave PC users TWO methods of panning mouse or wasd. How is that barely being supported? The only thing people can say is its not boarder panning. Call me crazy but that one difference hardly  makes for the chicken little response on the Controls.

 

2b) Yes I agree there tac cam does not scroll out far enough I have stated this previously. I don't claim the system is perfect.

 

3) THe not holding position is an issue but it appears on the BUG side of things There is the H key that is the command for HOLD position. I don't really think you can claim a bug is a design flaw. Does it need to be fixed? yes but i mean by design you are supose to be able to hold position I expect to find bugs in a game this large.

 

4) So things that make the game tactical are just there so they could claim the game is tactical? That doesn't seem like a strong argument at all. If they require you to make tactical choices in combat that by definition is a tactical feature. And it seems very disengenuious you then claim there are only there so they can "claim" the game is tactical.

 

5) I found holding the mouse or R  down to attack was resulting in the issues you mentioned so I changed it to tapping the mouse button. Which isn't much different from having to time mouse presses in the witcher series or click the button to shoot a gun in a shooter. I am not sure if you are right about the development or if it was more intented to be tapped vs continually pressed. This asside if you are in tac combat mode you don't have to keep the mouse button pressed to use a base attack so... This is a tactical combat issue how?

 

6) I am unsure how this relates to tactical combat. Yes its an issue with some users and perhaps a larger icon is required but how does this make DA:I less tactical?

 

7) I would love to know what all these little things are that show the tactical side of things was an after thought. When people gloss over things like this in a discussion it is often an indication that there isn't a whole lot of other things.

 

Your list has some points but it makes some claims like the controls in a general manner with no specifics on how the controls fail. One point is an actual bug and its presented like its a design feature which reduces the list further. The cursor isn't even related to the topic at hand of tactical combat so thats another point against your argument. The pressing or holding r down is not something you need to do in tactical combat so that again begs the question how does this make the game less tactical?

 

In a major title like this i can list off bugs with ease. I never claimed DA:I was perfect or bug free but I didn't ask what bugs the game had I asked what specifically makes the game less tactical? Your list was paper thin.

[In Exile]

 

• Party members do not hold position beyond a very very limited range, as they could in DAO
• Party members cannot be set to defensive, aggressive, or passive, a they could in DAO
• Party members leash when the player character moves a trivial disatance away, unlike in DAO
• Tactics cannot be assigned, as they do not exist, which they did in both DAO and DA2
• Most fights require scant tactical planning on the hardest difficulties, with the exception of a few bosses, which was not the case in DAO
• Party and Enemy AI is abysmally bad, dragons in particular.
• DAI fails at UI accessability
• DA2's "wave combat" has morphed into endless and often instant respawns until a zone is fully cleared, unlike either DAO or DA2
• DAI's melee combat is a disaster on a KB+M
• DAI fails at attribute allocation, as it no longer exists at all, unlike either DAO or DA2
• FPS caps in cutscenes are badly done, and until a patch actually fixes these (not simply promises of a possible patch which may or may not actually address this) if is bad.

I could probably come up with more, but hopefully you begin to get the point.

 

While I agree with the vast majority of your points, I have to object to the bold. DA:O did not require anything close to approaching tactical planning unless you were either terrible at builds or intentionally used poor ones, and generally refused to rely on the awesome and unmatched OP power of mages. A 3-mage party could faceroll every encounter in DA:O on nightmare with little-to-no damage, and a BM/SM was an infinite caster who could literally go on forever as long as one meatsack NPC was alive to be healed/drained.