19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Pali3x1]

 

You are not supposed to have quite the same flexibility as in previous games. Just because it's in the same line of games, doesn't mean it has be so very similar. Yes, many people want it to be like DA:O where you had so much more control over anything, but face it - the game is an Action RPG now, not a traditional isometric/tactical/strategical RPG.

 

That's the direction they have gone. It's not really a bad thing unless you desperately wanted the old style back and considered it superior. I for one don't. Playing Origins even after DA2 felt clunky. And Inqusition makes things ever more fluid and responsive, which I like. 

 

DA:I is much more like Mass Effect now. You have control over your party, but it is less about micro-managing everything during a fight and more about giving general direction to direct the flow of the battle and instead controlling your own character.

 

 

The game is good i like the combat but whit out tatic system like before the ai is bad usig abilities yo can select more that one member at a time to change position you can even select targets well sumary your party members do whatever they want unslees you baby sit them. Why ramaing a party base game whe you cant even  control your party i played 150+ hours really enjoy the game but they mess up some of the basics yea they going action oriented rout i and fine whit that i liked better then the old games but why guive me 4 party members when i can realy control one unless i spent 70% of the figth pausing.

[Archie591]

Your avatar picture says everything about you. 

 

What? That I'm a dumb jock? Sorry to disappoint you but staying healthy and fit does not take anything away from mental development. I am in-fact a nutrition/exercise science analyst. But that's not really relevant.

 

I've been playing RPG-s since before BG I was even released. I consider most DnD games on PC the best games ever made. I regularly play the entire BG, IW and Neverwinter Nights series from start to finish, over and over again. And I consider DA:O as one of the best RPG-s ever created also.

 

I still like DA:I more even though I don't consider it to be as good of a RPG in general. There is no contradiction as DA:I and DA:O or even DA2 nor any of the old Infinity Engine games aren't even in the same genre. You could call them as being vaguely in the similar RPG category, but in reality all different from one another and should be judged as such. Comparing DA:I to DA:O and expecting gameplay similarities and putting the game down for not being like Origins is actually quite ridiculous. They aren't even trying to be similar anymore, why treat them as such.

 

I'm actually playing DAO through again as a diversion every time I get too frustrated (or, also, mind-numbingly BORED with the moronic skyrimesque fetch-quests) with DAI. The entire control and camera structure in DAO is basically perfection. All Bioware had to do, period, is implement that same control and camera structure in DAI. They didn't even need to think about it, or analyze it, all they freaking needed to do was exactly COPY what they already had! That's it. Then they could have added whatever else they wanted, as long as they left the foundation there.

 

When you've got it right, you've got it right, don't go and screw it up.

 

There is no right and there is no wrong. Try to understand this: They did not want the same gameplay. Okay? Origins was close to perfection as far as tactical, isometric RPG-s go. Golden. However, DA:I is not trying to be that kinda game. If they wanted that, they could have indeed made it like that. They didn't want it.

 

They did not screw up in any way. That assumes they tried to make things like Origin and simply failed. That's wrong, they didn't even try. The entire direction of the DA series is to be more like Mass Effect and the Witcher 2 to some extent. More action, more fluent, responsive gameplay and less "pause and think 15 minutes before making a move". 

 

Just because the series started up as an Isometric, very tactical and strategic, think before you act game, doesn't mean every game in the series must follow the same formula. Are Mass Effect and the Witcher 2 bad games? Heck no - one of the best ever made. So why wouldn't Bioware try to make DA into something like that as-well. It's a new age. Old-school tactical RPG-s are great and all, but that time has mostly come and gone. Action RPG-s aren't worse, they are just different.

 

Too many people are judging the game based on what the previous titles were like. Don't do that. Look at the game objectively and you'll see that it's in a different genre now. 

[Archie591]

More like, don't you DARE to touch those controls!  The party will do very well on it's own (your main character included). 

I don't know what party micro-management in tactical RPG has ever done to you, but I, for one, not happy to see it go. 

I would love to see this very system applied to ME4, but it's totally unacceptable for DA series.

 

I do enjoy tactical micromanaging a great deal, but they are clearly taking the DA series in another direction. DA:I is more like Skyrim with 3 followers. And that's not bad, is it? I understand that a fan of DA:O would much prefer tactical micromanaging and such, but that doesn't mean the current action-rpg style is bad in any way. It's just different.

 

I understand that Bioware has basically alienated a lot of fans over the years because of the changes they've made to the DA series, but it's also very clear they have gained a ton of players who prefer the newer style as-well.

 

There is no right and wrong here. Just personal preferences. I enjoy both tactically challenging combat and action oriented "in your face" style. I don't care too much which one is thrown at me, as long as it is competently done. DA:O was near perfect as far as tactical micromanaging went and DA:I is pretty good when you want to be up close to your character and be as involved as possible with as little pausing as possible.

 

The game is good i like the combat but whit out tatic system like before the ai is bad usig abilities yo can select more that one member at a time to change position you can even select targets well sumary your party members do whatever they want unslees you baby sit them. Why ramaing a party base game whe you cant even  control your party i played 150+ hours really enjoy the game but they mess up some of the basics yea they going action oriented rout i and fine whit that i liked better then the old games but why guive me 4 party members when i can realy control one unless i spent 70% of the figth pausing.

 

The thing is - the game is quite easy even on Nightmare difficulty. I finished the game on Hard once already without basically never taking control of anyone else in my party. Just activating some potions and grenades and letting them manage on their own after that. Now I'm on Nightmare and it's pretty much the same. The party does quite fine, as long as you are competent yourself.

 

Yes, the AI isn't great, but the fights themselves aren't overly tactical anyway. It's a brawl almost every time.

 

Why give you a party? Why not? It's not like having a party is all about micromanaging them all the time. A party adds more fun to the game. It makes you feel involved, more story options and variations, more lively gameplay in general. It also allows you to experience different classes and builds without trying every one of them yourself.

 

Let's be fair here, Mass Effect also has a party with even more limited control options and it's great. Can't see why people hate it in DA.

[Frond]

I've been playing RPG-s since before BG I was even released. I consider most DnD games on PC the best games ever made. I regularly play the entire BG, IW and Neverwinter Nights series from start to finish, over and over again. And I consider DA:O as one of the best RPG-s ever created also.

I still like DA:I more even though I don't consider it to be as good of a RPG in general. There is no contradiction as DA:I and DA:O or even DA2 nor any of the old Infinity Engine games aren't even in the same genre. You could call them as being vaguely in the similar RPG category, but in reality all different from one another and should be judged as such. Comparing DA:I to DA:O and expecting gameplay similarities and putting the game down for not being like Origins is actually quite ridiculous. They aren't even trying to be similar anymore, why treat them as such.


There is no right and there is no wrong. Try to understand this: They did not want the same gameplay. Okay? Origins was close to perfection as far as tactical, isometric RPG-s go. Golden. However, DA:I is not trying to be that kinda game. If they wanted that, they could have indeed made it like that. They didn't want it.

They did not screw up in any way. That assumes they tried to make things like Origin and simply failed. That's wrong, they didn't even try. The entire direction of the DA series is to be more like Mass Effect and the Witcher 2 to some extent. More action, more fluent, responsive gameplay and less "pause and think 15 minutes before making a move".

Just because the series started up as an Isometric, very tactical and strategic, think before you act game, doesn't mean every game in the series must follow the same formula. Are Mass Effect and the Witcher 2 bad games? Heck no - one of the best ever made. So why wouldn't Bioware try to make DA into something like that as-well. It's a new age. Old-school tactical RPG-s are great and all, but that time has mostly come and gone. Action RPG-s aren't worse, they are just different.

Too many people are judging the game based on what the previous titles were like. Don't do that. Look at the game objectively and you'll see that it's in a different genre now.

I totally agree with you. Bioware no longer makes RPGs like they used to and that's not a bad thing. If fact, I think it opens up that niche market for other companies like Larian and Beamdog (hopefully their sucesses with Divinity and the Infinity Engine Enhanced Editions will allow them to continue making such games.)
As it stands I think Bioware does great work making interactive movies.

[Archie591]

I totally agree with you. Bioware no longer makes RPGs like they used to and that's not a bad thing. If fact, I think it opens up that niche market for other companies like Larian and Beamdog (hopefully their sucesses with Divinity and the Infinity Engine Enhanced Editions will allow them to continue making such games.)
As it stands I think Bioware does great work making interactive movies.

 

Bingo. I personally very much enjoy what these action RPG-s offer. Interactive movies where I and/or my friends are the main characters. And it's even more awesome when I can change the very nature of my entire group of friends. It's just so cool to watch the "movie" change.

 

Old-school isometric games were more about being in an Interactive "book". Also great. But let's be fair here - there really was no other option. Graphics couldn't handle 3D in an acceptable way back then. DA:O tried to kinda mix and match, providing old-school isometrics and close-up action and movie style interactions, but it's clear they have now decided to go full movie-style. And I'm cool with that.

 

 

And I agree that this opens up a lot of ground for various smaller studios and Indie developers to capitalize on. Making interactive movie style games that require heavy graphics, voice overs, CGi and so forth, are usually beyond small studios. However, making old-school style isometric, tactically intense, reading heavy games are just perfect for them.

 

I think everyone wins here.

[Rann]

its not that the game needs a lot more love, especially for pc users, but stay realistic. to make point and click work in open world can be very difficult and im pretty sure they already tright it and wasnt satisfied by the results.

 

Consider two possibilities:

 

(1) One of the most recent, most powerful, and much ballyhooed game engines somehow mysteriously can't easily support point-and-click actions for movement and selection, despite that being a long-existing RPG UI metaphor, and despite both pointing and clicking clearly manifesting themselves as actions in the game for other functionality.

 

or

 

(2) It was far more expedient to do a straight console port in order to meet deadlines, given that the game's release date had already slipped significantly once, at the sole expense of being exposed as fibbing on the "PC-first" statement and thus annoying one segment of the market.

 

I dunno about you, but I keep my Occam's razor well sharpened...

[the_pepper]

...

Thank you! Like I said before every time someone called me out for saying that the game is a fair contender for game of the year (not even defending it as my personal choice), the fact that there are things you'd prefer the game to be shouldn't render you unable to appreciate it for what it is.
Personally I'd enjoy a bit more emphasis in plot or character interaction and a little less faffing about, and I also wish that they'd fully commit to whatever type of gameplay they're going for instead of making it worse by half-heartedly putting in a few other gameplay type elements just to try and please the ones that don't enjoy what you're doing (and they won't please them, of course they won't, it's still not the experience they're looking for). But despite having some issues with the game I still enjoy it and find it worth playing.
Well, not pleased with the glitches and crashes, obviously - that has me quite pissed\disappointed - but half the people on this thread aren't even talking about QA problems any more. Also, the codex interface. Oh god, the codex interface... *shivers*

[biain]

Bingo. I personally very much enjoy what these action RPG-s offer. Interactive movies where I and/or my friends are the main characters. And it's even more awesome when I can change the very nature of my entire group of friends. It's just so cool to watch the "movie" change.

Old-school isometric games were more about being in an Interactive "book". Also great. But let's be fair here - there really was no other option. Graphics couldn't handle 3D in an acceptable way back then. DA:O tried to kinda mix and match, providing old-school isometrics and close-up action and movie style interactions, but it's clear they have now decided to go full movie-style. And I'm cool with that.


And I agree that this opens up a lot of ground for various smaller studios and Indie developers to capitalize on. Making interactive movie style games that require heavy graphics, voice overs, CGi and so forth, are usually beyond small studios. However, making old-school style isometric, tactically intense, reading heavy games are just perfect for them.

I think everyone wins here.

I agree, this would be fine. Except for the part where Bioware bothered to include a (broken) tactical combat mode and marketed the game as a return to Origins with statements like, "we listened to community feedback and fans of Origins will be pleased with the gameplay." (I'm paraphrasing, the line is from the "PC gamers" video.)

[no_subject]

The controls of the game and whatever features included seem all perfectly fine to me on PC. I expected nothing more. I expected no super tactical overlay or auto-attacking or mouse-clicking movement or anything like that. Why? Because it seemed blatantly obvious that Bioware was moving towards ME style action-rpg settings, rather than back to DA:O style.

 

...You are not supposed to have quite the same flexibility as in previous games. Just because it's in the same line of games, doesn't mean it has be so very similar. Yes, many people want it to be like DA:O where you had so much more control over anything, but face it - the game is an Action RPG now, not a traditional isometric/tactical/strategical RPG.

 

I think you're missing the point. Sure, some people are complaining because DA:I is not as tactical/strategic as it was in its earlier itinerations, but the fact is that the tactical cam is still here albeit in a broken/poorly ported way.

 

The majority are complaining about the fact that the game feels like a half-baked mixture of both types of gameplay; the tactical controls are buggy, and 'action' gameplay feels half-baked and unresponsive. IIRC in The Witcher games you could at least left-click to attack and loot.

 

Combined with the fact that it is clearly a console port with a gamepad in mind with broken features (no walk button for KB+M, auto-resume when paused after selecting an action, to give two examples) is why people are complaining. Especially with the whole 'For PC gamers by PC gamers' spiel from EA. Are you playing using a controller perchance? Or can you honestly say that the game feels smooth and intuitive using a KB+M?

[shushNMD]

And I agree that this opens up a lot of ground for various smaller studios and Indie developers to capitalize on. Making interactive movie style games that require heavy graphics, voice overs, CGi and so forth, are usually beyond small studios. However, making old-school style isometric, tactically intense, reading heavy games are just perfect for them.

I think everyone wins here.

Why not both? If they already invested so much work and finances into a game,CGI, voices, story, design, what denies them to go that little extra inch and not alienate former fans?
I don't see that many complaints about the game in general, but 300+ pages thread filled with complaints about atrocious controls and unbelievably unusable UI.

I understand that RPG part isn't going to return, but at least a fix of UI/Controls would be just as enough for me.

[voteDC]

I think too many people had/have assumptions about what this game was supposed to deliver on the gameplay front, especially comparing it to the previous titles.

 

The controls of the game and whatever features included seem all perfectly fine to me on PC. I expected nothing more. I expected no super tactical overlay or auto-attacking or mouse-clicking movement or anything like that. Why? Because it seemed blatantly obvious that Bioware was moving towards ME style action-rpg settings, rather than back to DA:O style.

 

This is no longer a traditional RPG in any way. DA:I is a combination of Witcher 2/Skyrim with many features and ideas taken from both, as-well as a general feel of Mass Effect to it.

 

Comparing DA:I to DA:O or DA2 is pointless in a sense that they are almost nothing alike anymore. Forget the gameplay of previous titles, take the storyline but consider DA:I to be a completely stand-alone, different genre game entirely. Less disappointment that way.

 

 

 

 

You are not supposed to have quite the same flexibility as in previous games. Just because it's in the same line of games, doesn't mean it has be so very similar. Yes, many people want it to be like DA:O where you had so much more control over anything, but face it - the game is an Action RPG now, not a traditional isometric/tactical/strategical RPG.

 

That's the direction they have gone. It's not really a bad thing unless you desperately wanted the old style back and considered it superior. I for one don't. Playing Origins even after DA2 felt clunky. And Inqusition makes things ever more fluid and responsive, which I like. 

 

DA:I is much more like Mass Effect now. You have control over your party, but it is less about micro-managing everything during a fight and more about giving general direction to direct the flow of the battle and instead controlling your own character.

I know I've said it before but it's worth repeating. Dragon Age doesn't need to be more like Mass Effect, it needs to start being more like Dragon Age again.

While the controls are 'workable' for keyboard and mouse in Inquisition they lack the elegance, for want of a better word, and breadth of options available in Origins.

Origins and DAII were near identical in control schemes. The only big difference I recall between the two was the lack of being able to pull the camera out to the isometric viewpoint. Other that that I had the ability to play the two game near identically.

I find that I have less control in Inquisition over my party members than in Origins. I find I have to micromanage them far more in Inquisition because of the lack of tactics.

 

I'm actually playing DAO through again as a diversion every time I get too frustrated (or, also, mind-numbingly BORED with the moronic skyrimesque fetch-quests) with DAI. The entire control and camera structure in DAO is basically perfection. All Bioware had to do, period, is implement that same control and camera structure in DAI. They didn't even need to think about it, or analyze it, all they freaking needed to do was exactly COPY what they already had! That's it. Then they could have added whatever else they wanted, as long as they left the foundation there.

While there is no doubt that Inquisition is a good game the controls are truly a mystery. As I said earlier in this post, they are workable but Origins was near perfect in what is needed to do.

I do have to wonder if Frostbite was the right Engine for this game.

[DeltaAgent26]

If you are having performance issues post patch, here are some steps you can try. Let me know if the issue persists.

The game is still broken.

The draw distances, and speed tree.

The game is also misallocating and over-allocating resources.

I have 32GB of ram on my system. I have don't have a pagefile on my system,

as I have disabled/turned it off, but the game assigns as much as 16GB to the pagefile.

I have an 8-core 4GHz cpu... which stays at 100% usage much of the time.

Memory has usage up to 16GB at times.

And Dual GPUs (either in SLI or CROSSFIREX depending which cards I have installed) that remain at 98%-100% usage even at lowest settings.

[I have tried 344.65, 344.75, and 347.09 and the most stable is the 344.65 for Nvidia. But it still crashes. with and without the directx error.

The 14.09, 14.11, and 14.12 drivers for AMD. for me, the 14.12 drivers are the most stable, but still very bad performance.]

 

 

with Nvidia hardware the game crashes more often after the patch and hotfix,

 

and the stuttering with AMD hardware is worse.

 

These steps don't do anything. Beacuse the game is very badly coded, and broken. Dot. Period. End.

 

Did I mention the CRASHES?

Oh, yeah, and the CRASHES!

Oh, and by the way, the CRASHES!

Which reminds me THE CRASHES!

Are you starting to get the hint here?

But wait, there's more... THE CRASHES!!!

[Pali3x1]

Ok the game is grate i love it i spent 150+ on it, i am dont whit it till they patch it. I know is not that hard you can bress trou nigthmare rigth now but you cant control your party why this has to be acceptable becuase you can beat the game ez thats not the point the ai is not good the tatic symstem is not good the tactical camera is not good. If you happy playing you inquisitor while your party are doing whatever they like  thats you i cant undestand how affter playing da:o and da2 i will be fine whit this.

 

Finally i was quoting a guy thta got really good points on things they need to change and i hope bioware change them.But if not what ever maybe next game i will wate some time till i buy it or buy it knowing maybe some things they were perfect in the pats will no be there maybe the are no corversation options maybe the story is linear no decisions.

[the_pepper]

^ Pali, dude. Commas exist. And apostrophes - but that's nitpicking. 

 

Why not both? If they already invested so much work and finances into a game,CGI, voices, story, design, what denies them to go that little extra inch and not alienate former fans?
I don't see that many complaints about the game in general, but 300+ pages thread filled with complaints about atrocious controls and unbelievably unusable UI.

I understand that RPG part isn't going to return, but at least a fix of UI/Controls would be just as enough for me.

I'd actually say that the "RPG part" (assuming you're just referring to all the stat management and freer levelling) would probably be the easiest to implement.

The reason why we can't have both is the same reason we probably shouldn't have had either pseudo-tactical elements or action-y combat: They're conflicting styles of gameplay and unless you perfect them both everyone will resent you: action fans will wish for more required timing and freedom of movement and tactics fans will wish the game didn't have so much mindless action. It just doesn't work - or it's so hard to do right that it's pretty much as if it just didn't work.

[Archie591]

 

These steps don't do anything. Beacuse the game is very badly coded, and broken. Dot. Period. End.

 

Your problems =/= everyone elses problems. You are literally the first person I've read that had issues like these. Granted I haven't checked the tech forums, but it's well known that only people who have issues visit these.

 

Nearly all "general-gaming" forums I've been to have been seeing very positive gameplay experiences even on several year old rigs.

 

PC games are near impossible to release without there being a certain group of people with specific configurations who have major issues. You cannot test for this in-house, nor even with large scale closed beta testing. And you can't really have open-beta testing for a game like this. So yeah, give them time to fix the problem.

 

The game takes a max of 2.5gb of ram on my system, I run a single GTX 760 on a 4770k processor and it runs very nice indeed. I have noticed no weird resource allocation at all.

[shushNMD]

And you can't really have open-beta testing for a game like this.

 

Why not? Battlefield 3 and 4 done it. And that's how I've learned that I'll absolutely buy those games and of course upgrade my rig. 

As far as I know there is a multiplayer in DAI, so why couldn't we get a taste of that before buying? 

[Chaos17]

You forgot the Walk toggle.

http://forum.cheaten...d4e975ba7c5e9ff

Someone find a way to "trigger" that action for mouse+keybard user since it was already coded for gamepad on pc.

[Oryctolagus]

That's the direction they have gone. It's not really a bad thing unless you desperately wanted the old style back and considered it superior. I for one don't. Playing Origins even after DA2 felt clunky. And Inqusition makes things ever more fluid and responsive, which I like. 

 

I've read your posts.  Your opinions about the direction of the game or its new genre is all well and good, but the thing you have missed, the glaringly obvious reason that people are not happy, want changes, and are dissatisfied with both the state of the game and the controls is pretty simple.

 

They marketed it as a return to DA:O.  They told us it was comparable in tactics and possibilities.  They promised a return to form.

 

They lied, purposefully, and were purposefully deceitful about the PC nature of the game in videos, in interviews, and in demonstration.  This isn't a misunderstanding, a misinterpretation, or a desire to return to "ye olde golden days".  The game was positioned like this and then sold like this.

 

So, now I want them to make it the way that they promised it would be, because I'm certainly not going to get any kind of apology.

[Brogan]

<p>I'm glad you're looking into this! Here is a list of some things we can do in Origins, and that I believe we are missing in Inquisition.Origins in action camera

• Point and click with mouse to attack
• Point and click with mouse to move
• Point and click with mouse to loot
• Auto-attack
• Hold 2 mouse buttons to move
• Select multiple party members with mouse, either by click and drag, or by clicking portraits with 'Shift'
• Detailed tooltips on quickbar slots
• Choose to have up to 40 quickbar slots (while not having huge buttons for companion orders)
• Set up advanced tactics for companions
• Edit: Walk toggle

Specifically for the tactical camera

• WASD movement of controlled character
• Navigate camera with mouse touching the edge of the screen
• Tilt camera to also see from below "worm's eye view"

From the mouths of babes...

Seriously though, what page are we on? And how many times has each of these features been requested, over, and over, and over?

It's almost comical. To not address ANY of these, whether by implementation or an explanation describing why they couldn't implement, would be the latest and greatest of Bioware's monumental insults to their core pc audience.

[Dinkledorf]

http://forum.cheaten...d4e975ba7c5e9ff

Someone find a way to "trigger" that action for mouse+keybard user since it was already coded for gamepad on pc.

Works great!  Thanks!  Am using this now as well as the zoom fix which allows customized Tac Cam zoom, unlimited zoom and also minimum zoom which I set to -0.5 which makes it almost a 1st person view for those situations where that is what I desire. :-)

[glosoli]

Wow, still no word.

[shushNMD]

^Beat me to it

[Brogan]

I've read your posts.  Your opinions about the direction of the game or its new genre is all well and good, but the thing you have missed, the glaringly obvious reason that people are not happy, want changes, and are dissatisfied with both the state of the game and the controls is pretty simple.
 
They marketed it as a return to DA:O.  They told us it was comparable in tactics and possibilities.  They promised a return to form.
 
They lied, purposefully, and were purposefully deceitful about the PC nature of the game in videos, in interviews, and in demonstration.  This isn't a misunderstanding, a misinterpretation, or a desire to return to "ye olde golden days".  The game was positioned like this and then sold like this.
 
So, now I want them to make it the way that they promised it would be, because I'm certainly not going to get any kind of apology.

Indeed. For example, we have a dev on record as saying lmb+rmb mouse navigation was part of the game back in Sept.

It was a lie.

[Jackal19851111]

http://forum.cheaten...d4e975ba7c5e9ff

Someone find a way to "trigger" that action for mouse+keybard user since it was already coded for gamepad on pc.

 

Just tested this ingame, working perfectly, doesn't interfere with dialogue or combat. Not sure about long term stability, but looks like my Qunari can FINALLY attend the ball! Thanks for this

 

This is such a laugh, over a month post-release and still no walk toggle, yet someone makes a mod for an "unmoddable" engine with a walk toggle. Heh