19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Dinkledorf]

Oh the conspiracy theories in this thread are very elaborate. Please, do tell us more of your first hand experience at Bioware in which they made the decision to develop this game "first and foremost for consoles". Were there objections from the remnants of the PC loyalists within Bioware's staff? Or did they all fall to the dark side and conspire equally to ruin the game for the PC gamers?

Not saying that this is so but an excerpt from a Bioware Blog regarding their use of Frostbite does have this contained within it:

 

"We wanted to develop Inquisition for the new consoles first and foremost,..."

 

Source = http://www.frostbite...ostbite-engine/

 

Personally, I actually don't care whether or not they designed it for PC or for console or whatever, I enjoy Bioware games but that's about it, i have no personal stake in the company as a whole.  Having said that, I do however completely understand how some people are ticked off regarding the "made for PC by PC gamers" campaign.

[hwlrmnky]

@hwlrmnky;

I think most of us feel "deceived" because we already had an (almost) intuitive kb+m interface in the first two DA games. Sure, it took a little training to understand at the very beginning, but after that one stopped thinking about how to control the game, and one could "just play it!" I didn't have to think about how do do what I wanted. And I certainly didn't have my gameplay flow interrupted every few seconds to bend down and pick the flowers just to acquire the stuff on the ground.

I'm over 120 hours into my first playthrough (yeah, I'm a Completionist. What about it?) and I still fight the controls all the time. I mean... Every. Single. Fight. I find myself going "No! Wait! How did I trigger that?!? And why can't I ever make that happen when I actually want it?!?" And then there's the trying to remember to rotate OFF of the controlled character just so s/he'll use those (limited to eight) talents and abilities instead of standing still.

What happened to the AI and setting behaviours so that I don't have to micro-mange Every Single Action by my party Every Single Time? The only thing they seem capable of doing on their own is Following me when I told them to "Hold Position". And my right hand is getting a cramp from having to hold the right mouse button down all the time just to see where I'm going as I move...

None of that should be. And it wasn't! I could play DAO/DA2 almost one-handed, (leaving the other free to handle the beverage of my choice. )

That's why when we heard that the PC version was "designed for PC players" we had such high expectations. And that's why we feel such disappointment.

Your keyboard experience is exactly what led to my controller purchase. Furthermore, I was getting tension clear up into my shoulders from combat. I am also certain that if the controls had been more like those of the first two games I'd be further along in my playthrough; I don't have 20+ years of controller habits and playing does require a great deal more attention to what my hands are doing. The end result is my longest session of DAI has been a little under six hours when I used to play DAO for 12-15 hour stretches. The extra energy adds up!

ETA: I share some of the disappointment and I appreciate your perspective on some reasons why the community at large might feel betrayed.

[Gerula81]

 You can't make the statement "this game was designed first and foremost for consoles" and not expect to get called out for it. Some of the PC players in this thread act as if they speak for all PC gamers. And when they use incendiary, baseless language such as that, PC gamers who wholeheartedly disagree will naturally express their lack of endorsement for such statements. 

 

 

Whilst I agree with your point on representation and language control, I can't help disagreeing with your point on the console origin of this game.

Everything needs proof, by all means, but ignoring proof and just denying the obvious is not that healthy for one's reputation for fairness.

 

I will just give a couple of examples of proof to support the statement "This game was made for consoles" to which I will add "was poorly ported to PC and sold as a PC developed game" . I think the later part is obvious enough, there are many articles and vids linked in different topics here.

 

Examples:

the subtle: using the Frostbite engine n the first place, returning to the main menu in order to quit game, the loading screen issue (black screen),

the obvious: mouse acceleration - which is a symptom of a poor port always, no mouse driving, the targeting system, the UI layout (skills, inventory etc), The loading screen cards show you the console UI...

[Sartoz]

snip

-----

 You can't make the statement "this game was designed first and foremost for consoles" and not expect to get called out for it.

-----

snip

Ahh.. but it is true.

 

Please read a guest blog post written by Jacques Lebrun, Technical Director at Bioware working on Dragon Age Inquisition. This article can be found in Frostbite's Blog. The link is here:

 

http://www.frostbite...ostbite-engine/

 

Specifically read the paragraph just above the pretty graph picture. You will find "..We wanted to develop Inquisition for the new consoles first and foremost..". 

 

Now, I don't know about you or the readers here, but "..first and foremost.." is a self evident statement about their intent. Everything else, is the consequences from this choice.

[JPR1964]

My engineer husband (who is too busy working to play games, poor love) until recently assumed that most PC gamer have controllers in their arsenals as a matter of course because he figured more equipment = more options. He was surprised to hear that a controller can be a bone of contention but that is what the BSN has taught me.

 

Lucky you : but personnaly, after trying the controller, I feel it really not at my taste... that's now 34 years I play PC games, and there is really a few rpg games I feel right with a pad...

 

The last was Dungeon Siege III...

 

What I dislike in the pad use is the fact that the view is always behind the shoulder of your character : on the mouse you can shift your view far away from your character, at the limit of the tactical view, giving you a more wider range of vision...

 

Moving the angle of view with the right stick feels wrong for me : I can be really more precise with the mouse and it's easier to find something around you. The horse riding is far less an hassle and I feel more comfortable with... The riding quest was done in a breeze...

 

I like to use a gamepad on my console, at more than 2 meters of my big TV : but not in my chair, the nose just behind my not so big computer screen...

 

And when I buy a game ON PC, where A GAMEPAD is NO PART of the REQUIRED minimum spécifications, I'm in the RIGHT to hope for a correct interface with my  KB+M...

 

How many gamers on PC nowadays have a mouse with less than 3 buttons? 5 buttons?

 

Damn, I had to use the software of my mouse to remap the mouse buttons!!!!

 

Having actually less than we had in the previous installement of the game, feel just wrong...

 

My point of view...

 

JPR out!

[Gerula81]

Hi folks

It looks like you're getting back on topic now. Please remember to keep personal comments/insults out of the discussion.

Thanks for your cooperation!

 

Wow, it is alive...

[hwlrmnky]

Lucky you : but personnaly, after trying the controller, I feel it really not at my taste... that's now 34 years I play PC games, and there is really a few rpg games I feel right with a pad...
 
The last was Dragon Siege III...
 
What I dislike in the pad use is the fact that the view is always behind the shoulder of your character : on the mouse you can shift your view far away from your character, at the limit of the tactical view, giving you a more wider range of vision...
 
Moving the angle of view with the right stick feels wrong for me : I can be really more precise with the mouse and it's easier to find something around you. The horse riding is far less an hassle and I feel more comfortable with... The riding quest was done in a breeze...
 
I like to use a gamepad on my console, at more than 2 meters of my big TV : but not in my chair, the nose just behind my not so big computer screen...
 
And when I buy a game ON PC, where A GAMEPAD is NO PART of the REQUIRED minimum spécifications, I'm in the RIGHT to hope for a correct interface with my  KB+M...
 
How many gamers on PC nowadays have a mouse with less than 3 buttons? 5 buttons?
 
Damn, I had to use the software of my mouse to remap the mouse buttons!!!!
 
Having actually less than we had in the previous installement of the game, feel just wrong...
 
My point of view...
 
JPR out!

lol, you're away ahead of me on the riding quest. I actually walked away from that one because I didn't yet have my bearings in-game and I couldn't tell where I was supposed to make the horse go. But that's my off-topic little shame...

The controller is a net gain for me personally but still feels alien. I've mentally nicknamed the analog sticks "antlers."

[BobaFett]

 
Specifically read the paragraph just above the pretty graph picture. You will find "..We wanted to develop Inquisition for the new consoles first and foremost..". 
 
Now, I don't know about you or the readers here, but "..first and foremost.." is a self evident statement about their intent. Everything else, is the consequences from this choice.

Are you joking? That paragraph has zero to do with PC's. What you keep quoting is about bioware developing the game for both new and old generations of consoles, to which they are saying they are starting with the new generation of consoles (Xbox one, ps4) first and foremost, then develop for the older generation of consoles (Xbox 360, and ps3).

Your quotes are so out of context and have nothing to do with your consoles first argument that I thought you were just trolling....

[Bethgael]

TobyJake, I didn't follow the marketing pre-launch. I've since watched the "Made for PC Gamers" video several times. I think it's a disingenuous piece of marketing but I do not hear or see any outright lies in that video. [snip]

 

disingenuous

ˌdɪsɪnˈdʒɛnjʊəs/

adjective

adjective: disingenuous

not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

"this journalist was being somewhat disingenuous as well as cynical"

synonyms: dishonest, deceitful, underhand, underhanded, duplicitous, double-dealing, two-faced, dissembling, insincere, false, lying, untruthful, mendacious;

 

Yep, sounds like lying to me.

[Dinkledorf]

Are you joking? That paragraph has zero to do with PC's. What you keep quoting is about bioware developing the game for both new and old generations of consoles, to which they are saying they are starting with the new generation of consoles (Xbox one, ps4) first and foremost, then develop for the older generation of consoles (Xbox 360, and ps3).

Your quotes are so out of context and have nothing to do with your consoles first argument that I thought you were just trolling....

I don't have a stake in this but I do wonder how your interpretation of the blog contents are somehow more relevant than others?  How does it have zero to do with PCs as you put it?

[Sartoz]

Are you joking? That paragraph has zero to do with PC's. What you keep quoting is about bioware developing the game for both new and old generations of consoles, to which they are saying they are starting with the new generation of consoles (Xbox one, ps4) first and foremost, then develop for the older generation of consoles (Xbox 360, and ps3).

Your quotes are so out of context and have nothing to do with your consoles first argument that I thought you were just trolling....

Exactly... develop first for next gen consoles, second old gen consoles....

 

And my post was directed at "You can't make the statement "this game was designed first and foremost for consoles" and not expect to get called out for it". As you can see, Lebrun did say exactly that.

[shushNMD]

Every piece of text could be taken out and misinterpreted to one desires. Like this: "We needed the discipline to resist design patterns developed from our previous titles"  To me it means that they completely forgot about DAO/DA2 and did everything from a scratch.

 

This blog post is about Frostbite, it has nothing to do with PC/Console thing...

[Oryctolagus]

I play with a KB/M setup and I don't have any issue with this games controls. It plays very similar if not identical to previous entries. So, there goes your argument. Boom goes the dynamite. 

 

[DisturbedJim83]

My engineer husband (who is too busy working to play games, poor love) until recently assumed that most PC gamer have controllers in their arsenals as a matter of course because he figured more equipment = more options. He was surprised to hear that a controller can be a bone of contention but that is what the BSN has taught me.

Sure many of us have a controller I have 1 and and a Saitek X-55 HOTAS(Hands On Throttle And Stick FYI)But when it comes to RPG's seasoned players tend to use M/KB because every computer uses a M/KB,controllers are a optional extra so you'd think that a game that Bioware says is made "By PC Gamers for PC Gamers" would focus on the 2 devices every computer is guaranteed to have.

 

The problem is the implementation of the whole UI has been designed with a controller in mind, M/KB functionality appears to have been cobbled together at the last minute as a afterthought.I myself as a seasoned PC gamer of 25yrs have found the whole UI so frustratingly unusable that I have been forced to use a controller to avoid smashing my very expensive Mechanical Keyboard and equally expensive 8600DPI gaming mouse into millions of pieces and there in lies the problem...............

 

I am being forced to use a device I don't want to use because my device of choice is so badly implemented so instead of having the flexibility of 100+Keys and 16 Mouse buttons, I have been constrained to using console controller for no other reason than because the people who made this game couldn't be bothered to do their job right.

[Chaos17]

I play with a KB/M setup and I don't have any issue with this games controls. It plays very similar if not identical to previous entries. So, there goes your argument. Boom goes the dynamite.

[DisturbedJim83]

Hi folks

It looks like you're getting back on topic now. Please remember to keep personal comments/insults out of the discussion.

Thanks for your cooperation!

Speaking of Co-operation how about Mr Darrah gets his butt back in here along with whoever is responsible for this shoddy console port and apologize to us paying customers for doing such a bad job,instead of blabbing on Twitter about how many Awards they have won/been nominated for ? Or is that too much to ask ?

[Dreizehn]

Thank you for the overview about the patches and its priorities.

I am aware gamebreaking bugs (like game crashes or display problems) have full priority, but I was not able to spot any hints about if (or when) the issues regarding "command to your party during fights" will be taken into consideration by the devs.

Could someone please tell me more about this? If this has already been mentioned, I did not find it.

 

I am talking about things like

• command to my mage to revive a party member. Mage interrupts and starts attacking instead
• command to a party member to move to a specific area, party member interrupts and starts attacking
• press 'hold position' ... nobody cares after a 2nd enemy shows up.

...these ignorance of commands makes it very frustrating to play the game.

 

As far as I remember these things worked pretty well at Dragon Age: Origins.

 

Not being able to see half of the area while I'm in tactical mode is not that bad because I can pause the game anytime. But not being able to let my party fulfill my orders is causing tons of frustration.

 

This is the first time I bought a video game straight on release. I was really curious and have to mention: The storyline is amazing, the characters are awesome. I do live the game.

Please help us enjoying this nearly perfect story by eliminating these problems.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

Speaking of Co-operation how about Mr Darrah gets his butt back in here along with whoever is responsible for this shoddy console port and apologize to us paying customers for doing such a bad job,instead of blabbing on Twitter about how many Awards they have won/been nominated for ? Or is that too much to ask ?

 

please, there's no need for that. i get it - this game is... well... something else than people expected. some of you probably cannot even start it. just, let's keep things civilized, such attitude will not change anything.

 

if controlls/tactical cam problems are not fixed in timely fashion, i'm voting with my wallet on next BW game - simple as that

[Oryctolagus]

Look guys, I haven't started Inquisition yet. I'm still replaying DAII in preparation for it. However, I do own Inquisition on Origin, and I am concerned about how it's going to perform. I might be one of those fortunate people that will experience very few problems. Or I might be like one of you, and the game will be unplayable. I'm actually kind of scared that I will be the latter. But I seriously doubt that BioWare will leave the game in an unplayable state. That's just inconceivable to me. 

 

I don't mean this snarkily.  It was/is inconceivable to me that they'd let the current state stand into the holidays.  I thought they'd fix some of the more obvious bugs prior to Christmas folks getting their hands on the game.  Especially bugs like the tac cam, player models, fixing the voice switch - things they know are obvious and aggravating.  I did think they'd have to address some of the architectural issues, but I think it's just taking a long time, requiring more extensive work, and the folks who are currently broken are edge cases (I don't mean they're crazy, I mean there is a confluence of things making it abnormal).  This is one of the things that lends itself to my general opinion regarding their commitment to addressing the PC issues.  A small series of patches to address some of the control issues and cosmetic bugs would have been good.  Holding all of the fixes for a huge patch after the holidays is insane if you have any desire to help your customer at all - and I have worked in software development and testing for 15 years.  I might even think holding the patch is a good idea, if it wasn't for the fact the modders have already fixed several of the things that Darrah has stated are difficult and/or have been pulled from the last patch (like the walk toggle, which.. PC.. /headdesk).  

 

Oh, Lord, I just quoted him.  Now we're never going to hear anything ever again because the industry has changed.  Sorry!

 

Computer stuff:

 

Spoiler

I'm running a Radeon 7750, 3.6 processor, 16 gigs RAM under Mantle, newest AMD drivers, Windows 8.1, having zero problems with running the game.  Prior to patch 2, I was having to run under DirectX and it was barely playable.  Post patch 2 I tried running under DirectX and it still wasn't playable.  Mantle is a dream.  I also had to turn off Windows 7 compat, take Origin offline, run it as an admin, and make sure that every possible process that might connect was turned off.  I had to make sure Raptr wasn't running.  I even optimized the drive.  I had all kinds of stuttering and hitching until I did... all of the above.

 

I stay away from posts about not being able to play at all, because I can and am, using a controller.

[Jackal19851111]

This is one of the things that lends itself to my general opinion regarding their commitment to addressing the PC issues.  A small series of patches to address some of the control issues and cosmetic bugs would have been good.  Holding all of the fixes for a huge patch after the holidays is insane if you have any desire to help your customer at all - and I have worked in software development and testing for 15 years.  I might even think holding the patch is a good idea, if it wasn't for the fact the modders have already fixed several of the things that Darrah has stated, publically, are incredibly difficult and near impossible.  

 

Oh, Lord, I just quoted him.  Now we're never going to hear anything ever again because the industry has changed.  Sorry!

 

All this reminds me of the BS lies that EA gave SimCity fans who wanted an offline mode, that apparently an offline mode was impossible. And then came the mod...

And now we are hearing the similar BS that essential PC features are incredibly difficult to implement... and now comes the mods...

[Sartoz]

Thank you for the overview about the patches and its priorities.

I am aware gamebreaking bugs (like game crashes or display problems) have full priority, but I was not able to spot any hints about if (or when) the issues regarding "command to your party during fights" will be taken into consideration by the devs.

Could someone please tell me more about this? If this has already been mentioned, I did not find it.

 

I am talking about things like

• command to my mage to revive a party member. Mage interrupts and starts attacking instead
• command to a party member to move to a specific area, party member interrupts and starts attacking
• press 'hold position' ... nobody cares after a 2nd enemy shows up.

...these ignorance of commands makes it very frustrating to play the game.

 

As far as I remember these things worked pretty well at Dragon Age: Origins.

 

Not being able to see half of the area while I'm in tactical mode is not that bad because I can pause the game anytime. But not being able to let my party fulfill my orders is causing tons of frustration.

 

This is the first time I bought a video game straight on release. I was really curious and have to mention: The storyline is amazing, the characters are awesome. I do live the game.

Please help us enjoying this nearly perfect story by eliminating these problems.

Try prioritizing your companion's tactics and remove unwanted ones.

 

Also, read the Combat & Tactics thread for tips.

[Sartoz]

All this reminds me of the BS lies that EA gave SimCity fans who wanted an offline mode, that apparently an offline mode was impossible. And then came the mod...

And now we are hearing the similar BS that essential PC features are incredibly difficult to implement... and now comes the mods...

Hmm... like the walk mod?

[Oryctolagus]

All this reminds me of the BS lies that EA gave SimCity fans who wanted an offline mode, that apparently an offline mode was impossible. And then came the mod...

And now we are hearing the similar BS that essential PC features are incredibly difficult to implement... and now comes the mods...

 

On an unmoddable engine.

 

I will caveat my post with this, though:  I'm sure the modders were able to dedicate 100% of their time to digging, building, and implementing.  There were also a bunch of them.  That would be a silly investment of time and energy for BioWare to make if they are dealing with the misallocation of CPU, VRAM, etc, etc that has been acknowledged on AHQ.

 

I don't have any information, though, so I go with what I speculate.

[Chaos17]

Speaking of Co-operation how about Mr Darrah gets his butt back in here along with whoever is responsible for this shoddy console port and apologize to us paying customers for doing such a bad job,instead of blabbing on Twitter about how many Awards they have won/been nominated for ? Or is that too much to ask ?

Try his twitter if you want to talk to him @Mike_Laidlaw directly.