19127 réponses à ce sujet

[voteDC]

To be fair the control scheme in Inquisition is pretty much the same as one of the options in Origins. WASD to move, hold right mouse button to move the camera.

If you played Origins or Dragon Age II that way then you aren't going to be having a problem. My issue is that I never use WASD in Origins or DAII, I primarily use holding LMB+RMB with some click to move added in when zoomed out in the former.

Bioware for some reason though removed the two other PC control options from the previous games in the series and replaced them with a controller option. While the addition of being able to use a controller is nice it should have been an addition and not a replacement.

One of my big issues with the tactical mode in Inquisition is that it feels like a separate function, whereas zooming out in Origins felt like a natural part of the game.

[Brogan]

,The M/KB interface was clearly done by some pillock who has spent their entire life with a Controller and thinks a M/KB on a PC is some exotic new fangled thingygummy.

Pretty much.

And I bet there was somebody in the studio who protested, likely one of the few remaining members of the Bioware team who worked on Origins/DA2, and said you can't release "that" to pc gamers, and was quietly grabbed and removed from the room as everyone else popped the champagne at the 'Gold' celebration.

[Chaos17]

Yup, but whatever we say people still will see us a minority of complainers whatever issues we've with the game

http://forum.bioware...no1/?p=18247749

 

Most of the whining is limited to BSN.

(and some low-lifes on youtube with orientation 'issues')

[BelnickISMYNICKNAME]

Conal,

 

You do realize this is a very unorthodox situation, don't you?  The reactions we are seeing to this release are not typical of a major game release, at least not in regards to an entire platform being affected to such a degree.

 

I assume you and the rest of the design team has seen this? http://www.incgamers...s-pc-hype-video

 

If so, does it not warrant some additional interaction and announcements specifically directed towards the pc customer base?
 

cheatengine fixed that, I doubt bioware will, check out thier forum and look for a table suitable for you

[Brogan]

Also, this conversation is a perfect example of what I mean by "fresh eyes" being needed; that someone being embroiled in a code, and a game, getting too complicated and going too deep, so that everything seems complicated but it really isn't.

It is really easy, in fact. As pointed out, the player already has an armour swap UI. We can already switch out armour, etc. You don't need a freaking separate UI for home clothing, at all.

Step 1: Turn on the ability to wear armour at Skyhold. Like you can at Haven. The toggle's already in the game. CheatEngine uses it.

Step 2: Add a couple of "at home clothing" schematics, that are not gated into heavy/light/medium so anyone can wear them, like, oh, say the formal wear schematic already in the game. Make them out of any cloth item already present, perhaps, like you can with... oh, say the formalwear schematic already in the game.... add a colour-only masterwork slot that is useable by any item so you don't waste rare materials getting the colours you want...

Step 3: ???

Step 4: PLAYER'S CHOICE HOMEWEAR!!!!!

Or, you know, just do step 1 so we can wear our armour.

Simple. Really Effing Easy. So, why not?

ETA: I think, on PC, these things actually are very possible but because of the console focus, they're not wanting to give PC users what console users don't have (because the medium makes it impossible). I really think this is the major reason most of this stuff hasn't been properly addressed.

Beth, 100% agree with your final comment. But as for the fresh eyes idea, I don't think Laidlaw even qualifies as the guy who needs to benefit from outside perspective, because he is so far removed from the actual coding process. He is likely making the above argument from hearsay 2, or even 3 levels above the individual actually representative of the reasons he is giving.

Even If that Twitter convo happened with Darrah I'd still be just as doubtful of its significance.

But again, I agree wholeheartedly with your comment that DAI needed AND needs some fresh eyes to fix the mess it's in.

[Brogan]

To be fair the control scheme in Inquisition is pretty much the same as one of the options in Origins. WASD to move, hold right mouse button to move the camera.
If you played Origins or Dragon Age II that way then you aren't going to be having a problem. My issue is that I never use WASD in Origins or DAII, I primarily use holding LMB+RMB with some click to move added in when zoomed out in the former.
Bioware for some reason though removed the two other PC control options from the previous games in the series and replaced them with a controller option. While the addition of being able to use a controller is nice it should have been an addition and not a replacement.
One of my big issues with the tactical mode in Inquisition is that it feels like a separate function, whereas zooming out in Origins felt like a natural part of the game.

This is EXACTLY what the issue is.

It is why Tac Cam should have only been "a thing" for console.

[Brogan]

Yup, but whatever we say people still will see us a minority of complainers whatever issues we've with the game
http://forum.bioware...no1/?p=18247749
 

Bioware made an official blog entry that talked about fixing the PC controls.

Why do you care what "people" see as a minority?

And AngryJoe provides a good service, but if he stops getting EA exclusives, his viewership (and thus his income) suffers. Of course he's going to praise the game. Plus, it's obvious he is rating the gameplay with controller, so it's meaningless.

[hwlrmnky]

Yup, but whatever we say people still will see us a minority of complainers whatever issues we've with the game
http://forum.bioware...no1/?p=18247749
 

That's because most of the complaints on the BSN do reflect a minority opinion. It's not a problem. "Minority" isn't a synonym for "bad" or "wrong."

[Bethgael]

A minority voicing an opinion =/= an actual minority opinion, either. Many PC users won't bother coming here. They just quietly stop playing the game (and see it as $ wasted), play it once for shytes and gigs and never go back to it (a pity!) or get their refund.

Back when I was more active politically (ah, the 20s--my 20s, not the 1920s. Geez), I learned that 1 angry voice = between 100 and 500-odd quiet ones, statistically. And if they bother writing a letter, then politicians are taught there's more "quiets" per letter written and dissent not being spoken in public. That's why letter writing campaigns are so effective. For someone to write a letter they have to either be a nutsy outlier or someone who cares enough to bother, hiding others who care, but who couldn't be bothered. If there's more than 10 or 12 letters on any given topic, it's usually the latter.

Too many individuals here to be nutsy outliers.

 

I don't think Laidlaw even qualifies as the guy who needs to benefit from outside perspective, because he is so far removed from the actual coding process. He is likely making the above argument from hearsay 2, or even 3 levels above the individual actually representative of the reasons he is giving.

Indeed (the first one happened--the second also happened but was deleted). Perhaps. Frankly, however, if he's not qualified to be giving such answers, then he shouldn't be. He should find out who is qualified and get the proper information. Helps prevent all these misunderstandings.

"I don't know. I'll get back to you when I do" and then following up. Nothing wrong with not knowing something. Much more professional. Instead, he's made a rather defensive "if it was easy, we'd do it, and we haven't, so presume it isn't" comment. Maybe it isn't easy (well, hells, we know it is; it's been done already), or maybe it's just that they want to "keep it for the DLC" and he can't say... or whatever. Maybe they really have not clue. I can't say. With EA, I'd bet DLC is a priority--but that doesn't mean I'm correct, there. Maybe their programmers (and Mr Laidlaw) are really that clueless (I don't actually believe that)--or there is a console thing going on, politically, that we can't know about (and fair enough). But even if every bit of that is true, or false, if you're a rep of a company unqualified to make such a judgement, don't make it.

I tend to think he is qualified.

[Brogan]

Yea, the # of people who post on BSN is a minority of the total number of customers who bought the game.  That's obvious. 

 

Their opinions are not a minority, unless you claim to know the opinions of all the other customers who didn't decide/care enough to post.

 

In other words, people who say the "whining is limited to BSN" are full of absolute ****.  Darrah I can guarantee knows this, based off all the tweets about fixing the pc controls he has to ignore.

 

 

Indeed (the first one happened--the second also happened but was deleted). Perhaps. Frankly, however, if he's not qualified to be giving such answers, then he shouldn't be. He should find out who is qualified and get the proper information. Helps prevent all these misunderstandings.

"I don't know. I'll get back to you when I do" and then following up. Nothing wrong with not knowing something. Much more professional. Instead, he's made a rather defensive "if it was easy, we'd do it, and we haven't, so presume it isn't" comment. Maybe it isn't easy (well, hells, we know it is; it's been done already), or maybe it's just that they want to "keep it for the DLC" and he can't say... or whatever. Maybe they really have not clue. I can't say. With EA, I'd bet DLC is a priority--but that doesn't mean I'm correct, there. Maybe their programmers (and Mr Laidlaw) are really that clueless (I don't actually believe that)--or there is a console thing going on, politically, that we can't know about (and fair enough). But even if every bit of that is true, or false, if you're a rep of a company unqualified to make such a judgement, don't make it.

 

Don't disagree with any of this.  Of course, I believe there is in fact both a political initiative re: consoles going on, as well as clueless programmers telling Mike these things because Bioware clearly no longer has the pc programmers they once had working for them (too expensive most likely - which dovetails with the console initiative - always about the $$).

 

However, I firmly believe that Mr. Laidlaw, as passionate as he is and as focused as his dialogue comes across, has absolutely adapted the controller as his own personal input method, and well before any of this, even before the 2013 E3 footage.  Which is fine.  He's not lead programmer, it's not his responsibility to *not* **** over the m&kb community.  And I don't hold him responsible for not talking much about it on his twitter.  He's just the current face of DA for us, which more and more seems past it's expiration date.

 

Darrah, on the other hand, who knows how he plays.  I don't really think anyone cares.  And his twitter persona can't get any worse.

[CatatonicMan]

A minority voicing an opinion =/= an actual minority opinion, either. Many PC users won't bother coming here. They just quietly stop playing the game (and see it as $ wasted), play it once for shytes and gigs and never go back to it (a pity!) or get their refund.

 

Remember, though, that the PC is only one of five platforms, four of which use the control system the game was designed for. That is pretty much guaranteed to make any PC-only complains a minority. On top of that, some PC players will use a controller, others will play the game like a bog-standard action-RPG, and others just won't care either way. The whole "it's a minority" thing is probably true.

[Brogan]

Remember, though, that the PC is only one of five platforms, four of which use the control system the game was designed for. That is pretty much guaranteed to make any PC-only complains a minority. On top of that, some PC players will use a controller, others will play the game like a bog-standard action-RPG, and others just won't care either way. The whole "it's a minority" thing is probably true.

 

It's not a minority if you're posting about the UI (which this thread that is almost 350 pages long, is indeed focused on).

 

There are 2 UI's for this game. That's a 50/50 split if my math is correct.

[BelnickISMYNICKNAME]

this is a console game directly ported to PC, what did you expect? that they would prio the best gaming machine ?
it is all about the money, it is a company and thier first prio is always money so they will always go to consoles as they are much cheaper than a gaming PC, like my graphic card cost twize as much as a ps4 and then ofc the other hi end parts
just accept that pc gaming is dead and try to enjoy console ports as that is the future

for poor ppl a console is also a better alternative than a gaming pc, much cheaper, no upgrading etc..and therefore there will be more money for companies if they prio the consoles scene first

but the uncrackable frostbyte 3 engine is already torn apart and rebuilt and mods are coming to fix this console port and make it a PC game
don't rely on the bioware to fix this, trust in the modding community, they have UBER skills

[Brogan]

Well, the problem is now, even if the mods do everything you'd ever want, we still have that blog entry.

 

Meaning we don't know what they will change, or to what extent they will 'muck up' things that would then need to be re-modded.  And what if they utilize some assets that modders still cannot access for modding?

 

This is why many are likely still waiting for the next patch.

[CatatonicMan]

It's not a minority if you're posting about the UI (which this thread that is almost 350 pages long, is indeed focused on).

 

There are 2 UI's for this game. That's a 50/50 split if my math is correct.

 

Yes, but only one of five platforms use it. The main UI - the controller UI - is, from what I've read, acceptable (though not necessarily great). Overall, the PC UI problems are a minority concern, which is presumably why they were given so little attention (and thus why we even have this thread at all).

 

just accept that pc gaming is dead and try to enjoy console ports as that is the future

 

PC gaming is doing just fine, overall. Better, in fact, than the ridiculously underpowered consoles they're peddling this generation. The consoles are already struggling, and they're not even halfway through their intended product life. It's actually rather sad.

 

No, the problem is that multiplatform games will always target the lowest common denominator, and it just so happens that a controller-based UI is part of that. A studio has to go that extra mile to adequately utilize the full platform spectrum, and often they just don't bother.

[Shelled]

the problem with pc gaming atm is that these devs are catering towards consoles rather than pc, the platform which they MADE their name on ironically, da:i is a prime example of that compared to da:o controls and tactical camera. Also the dumbing-down of the gameplay itself is thanks to consoles. Everything is way more simplified which makes it worse. Can't even allocate attributes on characters in this game. Why? Consoles and the majority of 13 year olds. Dragon age origins fans be damned if they make more money off mindless kids.

[TobyJake]

I just installed The Witcher. Maybe I'll play DA:I again when fans are once again clean!!

Maybe mods will make it better. I hope so.

[Chaos17]

That's because most of the complaints on the BSN do reflect a minority opinion. It's not a problem. "Minority" isn't a synonym for "bad" or "wrong."

I would've agreed with you if that person didn't said below "Low life" when he talked about the youtubers be part of that minority.

Imo, that word "minority" was clearly used in bad way too look down on others if you add the sentence below of it.

[hwlrmnky]

I would've agreed with you if that person didn't said below "Low life" when he talked about the youtubers be part of that minority.
Imo, that word "minority" was clearly used in bad way too look down on others if you add the sentence below of it.

Okay, but that poster is allowed to think some people on YouTube are lowlifes. S/he doesn't actually equate the two groups, i.e., "BSN whiners" and "YouTube lowlifes" other than that both groups complain about DA:I and s/he (I gather) has no use for them. Unless it's been edited, that poster also didn't use the word minority in his or her post. You are the one who introduced "minority" into the discussion when you brought it here. I just said, it's cool. We can be in the minority. It doesn't detract from who we are.

I see your posts on the BSN and I usually see you being kind or helpful or just plain sharing your enjoyment of and concerns about the game. I've also seen you stand up to bullies by taking the high road. I respect your contributions to the forum. I will, however, tell you that you seem to have taken that poster's statements unusually personally and that it makes no sense to me that you should. I don't think you should care what that person thinks. I certainly don't take for granted that you care what I think. I do think you should put that poster on your Ignore list if s/he isn't there already and move your mental energies to something fun or constructive.

[Chaos17]

Okay, but that poster is allowed to think some people on YouTube are lowlifes. S/he doesn't actually equate the two groups, i.e., "BSN whiners" and "YouTube lowlifes" other than that both groups complain about DA:I and s/he (I gather) has no use for them. Unless it's been edited, that poster also didn't use the word minority in his or her post. You are the one who introduced "minority" into the discussion when you brought it here. I just said, it's cool. We can be in the minority. It doesn't detract from who we are.

I see your posts on the BSN and I usually see you being kind or helpful or just plain sharing your enjoyment of and concerns about the game. I've also seen you stand up to bullies by taking the high road. I respect your contributions to the forum. I will, however, tell you that you seem to have taken that poster's statements unusually personally and that it makes no sense to me that you should. I don't think you should care what that person thinks. I certainly don't take for granted that you care what I think. I do think you should put that poster on your Ignore list if s/he isn't there already and move your mental energies to something fun or constructive.

Nah, you're right and thank you for your kind words.

I saw a bully in that person because she denied complainants and that something I usually can't stand.

Yes, I used the word minority but I should've used her own words instead "limited to BSN" which for me is being considered as being a minority, imo.

But, I shouldn't ve done that since it lead us into a misturstanding.

I apologize.

 

Anyways, for me these complainants love the game as much as the other fan boys otherwise they won't be staying here and trying to like the game.

But no, people want them to dispapear from their sight and see no love in thread like this which make me upset.

[LordSeeker]

Few DAI mods are available on DAI Nexus..I hope Bioware will support them and help make modders DAI PC version even better...

 

If Bioware takes action against them and stop them from modding DAI then i will never support Bioware again...If CD Red and Bethesda can support mod community then why can't EA Bioware?

[hwlrmnky]

@Chaos17--
No apology needed but I am glad we have cleared up any misunderstanding between us.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[ssanyesz]

Remember, though, that the PC is only one of five platforms, four of which use the control system the game was designed for. That is pretty much guaranteed to make any PC-only complains a minority. On top of that, some PC players will use a controller, others will play the game like a bog-standard action-RPG, and others just won't care either way. The whole "it's a minority" thing is probably true.

 

Bad arguement. Look at D3, if Blizzard can make proper UI (including inventory, character screen, HUD, etc ) and working controlling system for the PC version of the game and an another one for Consoles, then so could Bioware/EA, they just don't want to. Anything they say about why they can't are just excuses.

 

But i am waiting for patch 3 too, maybe it will be some kind of improvement.

[THM]

Few DAI mods are available on DAI Nexus..I hope Bioware will support them and help make modders DAI PC version even better...

If Bioware takes action against them and stop them from modding DAI then i will never support Bioware again...If CD Red and Bethesda can support mod community then why can't EA Bioware?

I doubt that EA/Bioware will support modders, for the same reasons they didn't support modding in ME3, which, however, did get a decent modding community. I suppose it is going to be related to the multiplayer, as EA hopes to get a sh*tload od money through microtransactions and fears that modders could surpass the microtransactions by implementing better weapons/armor into the multiplayer for free, which thus would basically be cheating. So I doubt there will be an official modding tool of any kind from bioware. Let's just hope warrantyvoider and ehamloptiran will get their modding tool far enough to add/replace meshes, that would be a huge step forward for modding.

[BammBamm]

its a difference to state controls are not broken the game is totally playable and controls are perfect and shouldnt be improved. most of my opposing post just targets people that go absolutely nuts and throw around terms as "unplayable" or "useless"

 

another thing is many things depends on playstyle, i myself play in tac mode the whole time (as in da:o using pause and not tactical), many flaws are not there (for example hold position command works fine in tac mode) and others things are nearly the same as in da:o with pause (autoattack, click to move etc), so its totally normal you have no bigger problems using it.

 

and there are things you are sadly used to like the consolish inventory, nearly every single game released on consoles too has it, mass effect had it and origins had it too, even the witcher didnt had a proper m&kb inventory compaired to most mmos. so its nothing new to pc gamers and shouldnt hit your enjoyment of the game massively. its more like uhh i dislike the game lets find a few other things we can bash on