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#8951
jcmuki

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find it funny that for all the talk about DAI being a AAA games, most of the major gaming "news" outlets have stopped talking DAI, no news on patchs, addtion contend, dlc or anything. Even ACU and FC4, for having horrible launches and being very broken are still being talked about, with news about patches and dlcs.

 

even bioware themself is being silent on DAI, when ME3 came out there was multiplayer events almost every week for several months, while for DAI there is nothing but silence, in fact the only noise being made is on the forums



#8952
His Majesty Lord Crash

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In all honesty I cannot conclude that anyone lied, and I doubt anyone else here can rightly so conclude.

 

There was a poster early in the thread (I think it was this thread) who evidently believed any and every PC enthusiast must use an Xbox One controller rather than keyboard & mouse. It may be that Mike L. was surprised to learn that us primitives exist, and may even be numerous in the wild. Next thing you know we'll try entering text commands or exhibit some other barbaric display.

 

So the game may well have been built by PC gamers-who-use-console-controllers FOR PC gamers-who-use-console-controllers.

 

That's a pretty weak excuse. Everyone knows that M/K is the primary input method on PC. At least every serious and experienced developer should know that, no matter if they personally prefer using a controller. If you don't know your audience and their demands how should you ever be able to develop a product that satisfies your audience?


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#8953
Iakus

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That's a pretty weak excuse. Everyone knows that M/K is the primary input method on PC. At least every serious and experienced developer should know that, no matter if they personally prefer using a controller. If you don't know you're audience and their demands how should you ever be able to develop a product that satisfies your audience?

About a year ago I finally caved in and got a controller for my PC.  Because, frankly, there are plenty of games out there that are half-arsed PC ports which I'd like to play, even though their M/K functionality is...less than adequate.

 

Still, I like to use a M/K whenever possible.  I mean, I even got this expensive left-handed gaming mouse specifically for that purpose.  And it allows far more flexibility and customizability on my part.  Still, as I said before, some companies half-arse it.

 

I never would have thoufhgt a AAA product like Dragon Age would be one of them, though.


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#8954
Fire Snake

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In all honesty I cannot conclude that anyone lied, and I doubt anyone else here can rightly so conclude.

 

 

 

If you take a narrow definition of lying, sure. There are no factually incorrect statements made in the video. Would you prefer 'intentionally misleading', 'dishonest', 'unscrupulous' or 'dishonourable'?

 

How about merely 'not forthright'? Of course antonyms for forthright include...

 

I suppose we could argue about semantics all day long, however personally I would be ashamed to be associated with that video. I could not tell a friend in good conscience that 'the tac cam and pause & play in inquisition is just like you would expect from Origins', so I would not say this to a stranger either. Given the apparent state of the PC version at release, I could not make such a video for marketing purposes without feeling dishonest, though others may not have such qualms.


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#8955
His Majesty Lord Crash

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About a year ago I finally caved in and got a controller for my PC.  Because, frankly, there are plenty of games out there that are half-arsed PC ports which I'd like to play, even though their M/K functionality is...less than adequate.

 

Still, I like to use a M/K whenever possible.  I mean, I even got this expensive left-handed gaming mouse specifically for that purpose.  And it allows far more flexibility and customizability on my part.  Still, as I said before, some companies half-arse it.

 

I never would have thoufhgt a AAA product like Dragon Age would be one of them, though.

 

I have both an Xbox 360 controller and an Xbox One controller myself but I only use them for games in which you don't need a mouse but only the keyboard, like sports games, racing games and platformers. In every game that uses the power of a mouse I use M/K because I just love the precision of the mouse. I expect companies to support the primary input on PC to its fullest extend if the mouse is used. Just like console players or people who love using controllers on PC expect the same for their primary input method, means a controller. Everything else is lazy and telling us that a respective game with such a lazy M/K optimization is made "for PC gamers" is a joke. There are more than enough examples that it is possible to cater to M/K and controllers to their fullest potential in the same game - if you actually want it. Maybe somebody should show Bioware how Blizzard ported Diablo 3 to consoles. That's how you cater to each input method. Everything else - like DAI - is just a cheap console port and it should actually be called out as such by every PC specific gaming outlet and every PC gaming fan.


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#8956
CatatonicMan

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Would you prefer 'intentionally misleading', 'dishonest', 'unscrupulous' or 'dishonourable'?

How about merely 'not forthright'? Of course antonyms for forthright include...


The term you're looking for is "lying by omission".

#8957
Jam_Sandwich

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Little ****** for tat going off on one of there facebook photos over KB&M Controls  :lol:

Patch 3 in Feb - my bet anyway.

Personally think we'll see click to loot by then - Am I being hopeful.

I'm certain it's possible. Just tie in the NPC's AI with click to loot and an end command



#8958
MisterMannIndy

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The term you're looking for is "lying by omission".

No, the term you are looking for is "Marketing"...


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#8959
Guest_Fulgrim_*

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Well, I only had the Directx crash a few times. But, now it's happeing pretty much every cutscene and even in game play. Same message every time DA:I sent bad code to directx and directx crashed. But thats the tip of the iceberg. The game is now having major loading issues everytime you travel to a new area. The black loading screen closes and I'm stuck watching level assets load in chucks, if they ever do. I have also had every member of my party load into level assiests such as rocks and be permanitly stuck, tell I reloaded the game. I also spent about 15 min playing the upper torso of a Inquisitor becuase the game loaded everything before the ground my character was standing on than loaded the freaking ground around him. Effectivly cutting my character off at the belly button.  Look I know new games with have bugs and I was ok with the odd reset because the directx crash, when the game was still playable. But, now the game is pretty much a snowball rolling down a damn hill. It's past time for the folks at Bioware to pull some serious overtime to fix what is a clearly broken game. You owe it to your customers.


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#8960
His Majesty Lord Crash

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Little ****** for tat going off on one of there facebook photos over KB&M Controls  :lol:

Patch 3 in Feb - my bet anyway.

Personally think we'll see click to loot by then - Am I being hopeful.

I'm certain it's possible. Just tie in the NPC's AI with click to loot and an end command

 

I don't think we will ever see click to loot or click to attack. The problem is that they made the whole game for 3rd person gameplay which means WASD on PC. Part of that experience is "jumping" although it's more like a pointless feature for the sake of having a feature than actually being needed or helpful or meaningful for anything in the game (especially given the fact that the party members you don't directly control don't jump at all - they just magically transport themselves constantly over the battlefield...). So bascially beloved features like click to loot or mouse movement orders are gone in order to have jumping. Of course that makes sense on console because playing on console means you play in 3rd person perspective. That's how DA2 worked already. So somebody at Bioware thought that limiting the PC version to the same camera perspective and movement pattern would be ok because you can't use it on console anyway. They cut this feature on purpose to cater to consoles and people who only want to play the game in 3rd person perspective.

 

DAI is just a long line of bad decisions and console-specific decisions that hurt the M/K experience on PC - without any meaningful compensation. They just "took that stuff away from us". Or does anyone really think that being able to JUMP justifies to completely dimish the experience on PC and to completely change the whole combat and game experience? Really? In the way jumping is implemented in DAI? That's beyond comprehension, sorry. That's just a real stupid decision.

 

 

No, the term you are looking for is "Marketing"...

 

There are laws in our countries that regulate marketing. Making false promises or misleading statements during marketing is actually a crime. You are of course allowed to market your product to people but you are genereally not allowed to say something about your product that is clearly not true. It might be a bit vague in this case but the direction is quite clear. So although it still might be legal (or a "grey area" case) it doesn't mean it's morally ok to behave like that and mislead huge parts of your customers. Bioware should be ashamed for that video and the way they marketed the game as a "PC experience" which is clearly not true.


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#8961
Fire Snake

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No, the term you are looking for is "Marketing"...

 

I actually lol'd  :D

 

Ahhh, what a world, what a world...


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#8962
Fire Snake

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I don't think we will ever see click to loot or click to attack. The problem is that they made the whole game for 3rd person gameplay which means WASD on PC. Part of that experience is "jumping" although it's more like a pointless feature for the sake of having a feature than actually being needed or helpful or meaningful for anything in the game (especially given the fact that the party members you don't directly control don't jump at all - they just magically transport themselves constantly over the battlefield...). So bascially beloved features like click to loot or mouse movement orders are gone in order to have jumping. Of course that makes sense on console because playing on console means you play in 3rd person perspective. That's how DA2 worked already. So somebody at Bioware thought that limiting the PC version to the same camera perspective and movement pattern would be ok because you can't use it on console anyway. They cut this feature on purpose to cater to consoles and people who only want to play the game in 3rd person perspective.

 

DAI is just a long line of bad decisions and console-specific decisions that hurt the M/K experience on PC - without any meaningful compensation. They just "took that stuff away from us". Or does anyone really think that being able to JUMP justifies to completely dimish the experience on PC and to completely change the whole combat and game experience? Really? In the way jumping is implemented in DAI? That's beyond comprehension, sorry. That's just a real stupid decision.

 

 

 

I suspect that Bioware's stated goal of platform parity has something to do with it, though why they would think this would lead to optimal outcomes for different platforms I have no idea. I guess the obvious answer is that they knew it wouldn't, but considered the benefits (less development required for example) to be worth it. /speculation



#8963
Han Master

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DAI is bad, uninstalled it without finishing the game which I don't even did with DA 2.
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#8964
AlyssaFaden

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Surely there has to be some form of update/news in the next 24hrs, right? The holiday period is over, they're back in the offices today.



#8965
rda

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Surely there has to be some form of update/news in the next 24hrs, right? The holiday period is over, they're back in the offices today.


As Bioware has proven again and again, they don't *have* to do anything.

Seriously, their PR sucks badly. Marketing department? Just fine. They can make lots of pretty videos. But PR? Like, as in staying abreast of customer complaints and passing on information? I have yet to be convinced that such a department exists at Bioware, or if it does, it isn't exclusively staffed by monkeys with typewriters.
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#8966
His Majesty Lord Crash

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I suspect that Bioware's stated goal of platform parity has something to do with it, though why they would think this would lead to optimal outcomes for different platforms I have no idea. I guess the obvious answer is that they knew it wouldn't, but considered the benefits (less development required for example) to be worth it. /speculation

 

"Platform parity" is truly the worst cancer in gaming right now. Even worse than DLC or DRM or anything. It's basically "crippling games on purpose to make it the same on every platform". From a consumer's perspective that is a horrible, horrible thing and everyone should openly oppose such policies...


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#8967
katokires

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So... you hate the two things that made Dragon Age good... tactics and the characters...

 

Tactics in Dragon Age are as complex as a 2 year old child can come up with. Inquisition would be in such a level that fungus manage to... manage.

If they were complex, I would really hate it, but play anyway since the whole point of my post was that character builds are everything.

If I can assign stat points freely and have limited choices on feats/skills/talents.

DA2/I simplified stats that reserve 2 stats for each class is disgusting. Yeah you allocate/craft stats into other things but the way they designed combat it becames ridiculous. I managed to make a willpower warrior wearing mage inquisitor hat and superior battlemage t3 armor, all with willpower, including gloves and boots. Still POOOOOOOR.

It is not null... I could also make crit chance/damage both warrior and knight-enchanter with rogue armors and upgrades.

But I can't feel fullfilled with this simplified stat system, not at all. My character being my equipments feels as shallow as Diablo, could as well be a floating armor/weapon =(


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#8968
MisterMannIndy

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There are laws in our countries that regulate marketing. Making false promises or misleading statements during marketing is actually a crime. You are of course allowed to market your product to people but you are genereally not allowed to say something about your product that is clearly not true. It might be a bit vague in this case but the direction is quite clear. So although it still might be legal (or a "grey area" case) it doesn't mean it's morally ok to behave like that and mislead huge parts of your customers. Bioware should be ashamed for that video and the way they marketed the game as a "PC experience" which is clearly not true.

 

 

Laws that are rarely, if ever, tried.  I'd say virtually impossible to convict outside of blatant, egregious untruths.  

 

The key to good marketing isn't necessarily what they say, but how we interpret.  Marketers live in worlds of grey that many of us would be uncomfortable in as we'd say they were untruths.  

 

As for Booware being ashamed for their marketing practices, I'd suspect they are overjoyed at the success.  They wrote a pure next gen console title and marketed it directly to that audience while simultaneously selling the PC community on their design tenants and foundation based in the rich history of the PC.   Mission accomplished Bioware Marketing ... I hope they all got Christmas bonuses for their crafty positioning of this Console game made by Console Gamers working for a company that used to employ PC developers. 

 

One just has to look to Twitter to see all the GOTY twatting going on from the team to surmise the level of satisfaction is high within the organization.


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#8969
His Majesty Lord Crash

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Mr. Cameron Lee:

 

"Neverwinter Nights, when you think about that is a transition point from Baldur's Gate, being 3D at that point. So that would have had a similar question, just from the change in perspective, and the change in the pacing. So it's more of an evolution in being immersed in the world, and I think that this kind of freeform movement to the world, giving you a massive place to explore, is just an evolution of the world."  

 

That just showes how little knowledge Cameron Lee has about game design and it shows pretty well Bioware's current bad attitude. They spit on their own heritage and try to sell to us the idea that their new games had somehow "evolved" from BG and NWN. The simple truth is that pretty much the only improvement on these games is indeed visual. "Giving us a massive place to explore" is no evolution at all if it's traded in for a ton of filler content and MMO style zones. If you can't make an immersive world you should skip making a "massive world to explore" from the very beginning. And showing gamers each and every thing on their minimap is actually the antithesis of exploration. And change in pacing? Sure, it's indeed a true "evolution" to turn a well thought tactical party CRPG into a fast button mashing SP MMO...

 

But I guess the real evolution for Mr. Lee is that Dragon Age and all Bioware games are now primarily "true" console games - made for controller gameplay and the demands of the core audience there. A true evolution indeed, don't you think? That's how Mr. Lee and other people at Bioware truly see PC gaming and its audience: as a thing of the past for some lonely, antique nerds from the past on the one side and something for these little, cute indies on Steam on the other side. But what are these little cute indies against their massive console game, he?


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#8970
KilrB

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So, ... I've been gone two weeks, driven to CA and back (4200 miles on Big Red), and still nada from BioWare/EA.

 

While I had expected as much, I was hoping to be disappointed in a good way by them just this once.


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#8971
rda

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One just has to look to Twitter to see all the GOTY twatting going on from the team to surmise the level of satisfaction is high within the organization.


The satisfaction should, overall, be high in the organization, and those who were affiliated with it. Art-excellent. Writing-mostly excellent (occasional iffy parts). Voice acting-excellent. Porting of Frostbite 3 engine to RPG-as good as could've been anticipated. It's the decisions at the higher levels-the Laidlaw, Darrah, Gaider level, who apparently green lighted a lot of the things to dislike about this game.

But the fact that these folks were/are tone deaf was apparent after DA2, with their posts refusing to acknowledge criticism about the game, and how we just couldn't appreciate their genius.
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#8972
Benaska

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And what have we learned? Never believe anything Mike Laidlaw says.

 

Think I'll quote this line once every week for the next five years, in order to make f*cking sure to remember that Bioware titles are now relegated to the "buy only from 5€ bargain bin"-category...


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#8973
His Majesty Lord Crash

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Laws that are rarely, if ever, tried.  I'd say virtually impossible to convict outside of blatant, egregious untruths.  

 

The key to good marketing isn't necessarily what they say, but how we interpret.  Marketers live in worlds of grey that many of us would be uncomfortable in as we'd say they were untruths.  

 

As for Booware being ashamed for their marketing practices, I'd suspect they are overjoyed at the success.  They wrote a pure next gen console title and marketed it directly to that audience while simultaneously selling the PC community on their design tenants and foundation based in the rich history of the PC.   Mission accomplished Bioware Marketing ... I hope they all got Christmas bonuses for their crafty positioning of this Console game made by Console Gamers working for a company that used to employ PC developers. 

 

One just has to look to Twitter to see all the GOTY twatting going on from the team to surmise the level of satisfaction is high within the organization.

 

They don't have to be ashamed for their success. They should be ashamed for how they mislead their loyal PC community (which played and loved Bioware games for more than a decade...). As I've said, it's not so much about legal issues, it's about moral ones. That's not how I want to be treated as a long time customer and fan. I've given them a lot of money and free adverisement over the past 15 years or so. I think I deserve at least SOME honesty, don't you think?

 

And that Bioware only twats about their GOTYs without mentioning or addressing the various issues raised by the community at least once in a while just shows how disconnected they are from their community and fans, sorry. Treating your community like crap can be disastrous in the long run. And even if you don't care at all about a part of your community (namely old-school PC people) you should still feel a little guilty about how you treat them. If not you're just an as*hole and not a normal human being capable of basic empathy, sorry. Not even ONE high tier official of Bioware commented on this thread and on the issues raised so far, for example. What does that say about Bioware and how they see their own PC community? It shows that they live in their ivory towers, bathing in their own success while ignoring every critique. That's just poor and sad.

 

Compare that to for example Larian and how they address issues with their game and how they communicate with their community. When I look at Divinity Original Sin I feel respected as a customer and gamer. When I look at Dragon Age Inquisition I feel pranked and ignored.

 

I guess Bioware would even call that an achievement and brag about their success on twitter. Oh, how deep they have fallen, both as once beloved PC developers and as human beings respecting their oldest and most loyal customers...

 

 

 

The satisfaction should, overall, be high in the organization, and those who were affiliated with it. Art-excellent. Writing-mostly excellent (occasional iffy parts). Voice acting-excellent. Porting of Frostbite 3 engine to RPG-as good as could've been anticipated. It's the decisions at the higher levels-the Laidlaw, Darrah, Gaider level, who apparently green lighted a lot of the things to dislike about this game.

But the fact that these folks were/are tone deaf was apparent after DA2, with their posts refusing to acknowledge criticism about the game, and how we just couldn't appreciate their genius.

 
Art isn't excellent. It has its highs and lows. While the design of the various zones is quite nice the characters and especially equipment design is laughable to abysimal. And there is no overall consistency in the art design.
 
Writing is for the most part mediocre at best. The main plot is ok but how long does it last? It's barely about 20% of the whole content of the game, the rest is mostly filler content with really bad writing. The whole narrative design is lacking with terrible pacing and unconnected game zones. The writing is at its best in some dialogues with your companions, mostly when it's really cheesy. But once the game wants to be serious again it's just ham-fisted and unbelievable. There is again no consistency in writing and the quality of writing has big ups and downs.
 
The voice acting is ok but not spectacular. Compare that to e.g. the Assassin's Creed games and you'll soon notice the differences in quality. It's of course better than Skyrim but that's not hard given the fact that only four persons voiced almost every character in that game...
 
The porting of the Frostbyte engine is nice on first sight. But combined with the terrible decision to enable jumping in the game it's the prime reason why the game is so lacking on PC compared to Origins (and DA2). It's very, very likely because of the new engine and jumping that we don't have click to loot, click to move or click to attack anymore. And why are the hair styles so bad and the metals so artificial? None of that was that bad in Battlefield. Actually the visuals are a lot worse than in Battlefield 4 in general and that's not really understandable to me...
 
But you're right that the top tier employess, namely Darrah, Laidlaw, Gaider and Lee are in the end responsible for every bad decision in the game. And they just tend to ignore every criticism about the game. They also don't have an interest in a serious discussion. Eat or die.

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#8974
Shelled

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The difference in tactics between the games is a more general concern as it applies to all platforms.  Just hoping to keep this thread more focused on PC specific issues, thanks.

general "concern" ? ...not PC-specific issues? 

Wow. Fire this lunatic please. The tactical mode isn't a general concern, its a downright pitiful downgrade compared to origins. It's so freaking bad I haven't found the willpower to continue to play my level 11 single player character. That's literally how bad the tactical mode functions in this game. You people are so inept that you haven't even fixed the camera snapping problem with the tactical mode even though you've stated that its fixed. HOW IS THIS NOT A PC ISSUE? 

Console money grubbing porting scumbags like this have no place testing PC games or making PC games. You're a disgrace to the industry along with everyone else who was responsible for this rushed untested console port pile of downgraded mmo-centric GARBAGE.

What a joke. I genuinely hope you've been fired already. What a disgrace of human existence. There's not a chance in hell I'm buying another game from these people ever again.


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#8975
Amplitudelol

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CD Projekt made its way to the top with witcher 2 without alienating its fans. Bioware started ****** it up with second DA, then this.

 

The trolls like me not being even moderated is the very proof they dont give a damn about their own forums.