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#9076
Jackal19851111

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As for publishers, seriously I feel they need to start looking at games from the eyes of the consumer. They rejected so many good game proposals and proceeded to just churn out sh-t after sh-t.

 

Before M&B I was dying for ANY game with mounted combat, and walla - dream was achieved. No publishers would support the game until the game got so much attention due to its mounted combat which has been neglected in every medieval RPG.

Before Planet Explorers I was playing Terraria and going - hell if only this game was 3d with good graphics and walla - Not just a good sandbox game with graphics but I can design my own freaking vehicles from scratch - I made a C&C Orca even, with no previous 3d modelling experience, its very easy to use. Right now I'm waiting for them to upgrade to the Unity 5 engine, which the devs mentioned they need to overcome alot of engine problems.

 

And that's another thing - COMMUNICATION. What's up with Bioware these days? Fame = excuse to hide from your fans?!

 

Indie is where the innovation is too it seems. Bioware's strength comes from its story and characters however when the gameplay experience is poor players will not be able to enjoy it. I'm indebted to the modders who have helped me enjoy DAI otherwise I would be alot more p-ssed at this stage.


  • Bethgael, LunaFancy et Bavarian Warden aiment ceci

#9077
Dan Dillo

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I don't know if this has been posted before in this huge thread, but the evolutionary trajectory of the Dragon Age franchise is being spotted in the popular gaming press as well. See this comment in PC Gamer, from a page where they voted DAO the 11th best RPG of all times (http://www.pcgamer.c...=zergnet_281203) (emphasis mine):

 

"But it’s the combat that feels most familiar, and most fun [in DAO]: the satisfying tactical depth of pausing your combat, issuing orders, and reacting to the results works like a modern Infinity Engine game should. It’s sad that BioWare will never make an RPG like this again—Dragon Age 2 was too streamlined, and Inquisition’s moving toward a more open world—so in many ways, this [DAO] is the last hurrah for the old BioWare, and a fitting end for its classic design."

 

One thing this thread is doing is expressing the sadness of people who cannot accept that a game they loved is not there any more. The direction that the DA franchise is taking is not not clear to me at this point: Skyrim? MMO? It may be that the devs are not sure either, and that this accounts for the multipronged but poorly implemented design of DAI. But it is deplorable that for DAI the devs simply went trend-surfing.

 

It is time to write off DAI's monetary loss and move on; fortunately, the kickstarter model of game funding seems to be turning this into a new golden age of party-based RPG (Divinity: Original Sin already released, and I hold great hopes for Pillars of Eternity and Tides of Numenara).

 

Cheer up!


  • FOE, LunaFancy et ssanyesz aiment ceci

#9078
FOE

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This game (DA:I) is NOT a role playing game.  It's an interactive horror movie.  Your characters go about doing what ever they want to and you're left to watch in horror as you try to pull the covers over your eyes...I mean fumble with the controls.  I feel helpless and alone...(hears a noise)...hello??  Who's there??


  • vetlet et atlantico aiment ceci

#9079
Jackal19851111

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One thing I noticed too is that games that make me think end up being the most immersive for me. Also why I enjoy strategy - it switches me off work and pulls me to thinking about other things - such as strategy/tactics. Either than the story/characters, DAI's gameplay doesn't make me think, and my mind wanders half the time.


  • FOE, ssanyesz et BammBamm aiment ceci

#9080
sinosleep

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To me, it all started with Mass Effect 2. Now, I do enjoy the characters of that game, but I'm not that found of the main quest. And the game got itselft too much streamlined. But to ME world, it made sense. It stripped down almost everything RPG-wise and was a more foccused action game. And the game got itself too big to be ignored. So everything after that, was Bioware (and EA) pursuing ways to make Dragon Age something more close to Mass Effect. DA2 failed miserably but this one got really closed. It feels so bad as a medieval Mass Effect 3 that hurts. I hated Mass Effect 3 not only for the ending, but to problems closely related to DA:I. Bad UI and inventory system, side quests were a joke, not that great build system, completly action oriented (I never issued a command at all in ME3). That ending was just the tip of the iceberg...but still, it made sense in ME. I just got myselft so frustrated because Dragon Age should be my tactical RPG fix.....and instead, its trying to emulate their biggest success ever by striping down every complexity and tactical decision and pretend that its a RPG. ME2 success is a shadow so hard to dissipate that even JRPGs (something close to death) tried to emulate it (I'm talking to you, FFXIII) simplifying itself to gather more people to play it. Thx god we have Witcher and the indie scene, but I still feels frustrated. I love DA:O....I just wanted more of that with new stories, charcters and the same tactical depth but improved. Thats not what I will get anymore.....ever.


Couldn't disagree with this more. Not all streamlining is bad. Mass effect NEEDED to be streamlined. Weapon skills NEVER made sense in that game. You were a war hero BEFORE the start of the game but couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a gun because RPG tradition demanded you had to waste your time putting skill points into something any idiot that made it through boot camp would be able to do. The shooting mechanics were God awful, the enemies were bullet sponges, the AI was terrible, the weapons were VERY samey, etc, etc, etc. I thank the heavens every day the changes made to mass effect were made cause it made it into possibly my favorite franchise of all time.

Where I agreed with you do is that dragon age should have never tried to become mass effect with swords. THAT, was dumb.
  • Artagal et Ncongruous aiment ceci

#9081
FOE

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I'm trying to cheer up, Dan - I really am.  My next purchase will be Divinity:Original Sin.  I've just about given up on this game and any patches.  I will go that (indie game) route, as they seem to cater to what I like.  Booware/EA has gone down a road that I don't want to follow, as a consumer and a still-sane PC-gaming fan.  I'm hopeful for the tactical RPG gaming future....it's just not with the big devs anymore.



#9082
Jackal19851111

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Hell if you like tactical RPG Divinity will blow your mind away - it's my personal GOTY. The interactive environments are so freakin awesome.

 

Also, you can walk in the game - in a FKING TOP DOWN RPG WTF?! Seriously I still can't believe DAI shipped without walking on PC (and even after 2 months STILL WITHOUT IT lol)


  • Brogan, shushNMD, katokires et 1 autre aiment ceci

#9083
FOE

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^^^ Hey, I'm sold.  I'm going to purchase that game regardless.  I've given myself about a week to wean myself off of this horrible Dragon Age experience.  It's so utterly tragic what they did to this once great franchise....well, they only got it right with the first game to be honest.  Still, Origins was a great 3-D successor to the 2-D'ish isometric RPG greats like Baldurs Gate (and BG2), Icewind Dale, etc.



#9084
His Majesty Lord Crash

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If you like real tactical games I would recommend Valkyria Chronicles as well if you can stomach Anime/JRPG graphics.


  • sinosleep et Styler aiment ceci

#9085
sinosleep

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If you like real tactical games I would recommend Valkyria Chronicles as well if you can stomach Anime/JRPG graphics.

That game is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good. Beat the ever loving crap out of it on PS3 back in the day.



#9086
FOE

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Lord Crash - I'm more of a fan of "medieval" looking RPGs..."cartoony" looking stuff doesn't normally do it for me.  I prefer the medieval/fantasy sort of genre to most other, in look and feel.  Maybe I read to many J.R.R. Tolkien books as a kid.  It warped my brain...but that's what I like.  Go figure.  I also enjoy a sense of realism where I can get it, although I don't necessarily need the latest and greatest gaming visuals to be content - I'm looking at you, Frostbyte engine.  Thanks for the recommendation(s) though.



#9087
rpinto1077

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Everyone needs to take their complaints to Facebook.   Social media is the best way to get our issues addressed. Even if that simply means they give us an update. I have already made a comment there. If everyone else does to it will be noticed.



#9088
FOE

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^^^  I've thought about that.  Harassing these Bioware A-holes that ruined the game on various social media sites....could be fun.  Facebook, Twitter, wherever I can spread the manure...er, word.  I might just do that.  For sh!ts and giggles anyway...



#9089
FOE

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You now what they say - Everybody loves a cyber bully.  They don't say that?  Well I do...



#9090
His Majesty Lord Crash

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Everyone needs to take their complaints to Facebook.   Social media is the best way to get our issues addressed. Even if that simply means they give us an update. I have already made a comment there. If everyone else does to it will be noticed.

 

I already complainted a lot on twitter. Guess what - they just completely ignored my complaints.


  • Brogan et Spitfire aiment ceci

#9091
FOE

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^^^ Well you know what they also say....Ignorance is bliss.  Ignoring customer's complaints is a hallmark of Bioware/EA's operations.  They're blissfully laughing their way to the bank with our money...


  • Spitfire aime ceci

#9092
His Majesty Lord Crash

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Well, for what it's worth I've invested 500 bucks (!!!) into Pillars of Eternity and only less than 30 bucks into Dragon Age Inquisition.

 

That could have been Bioware's money. But not if they continue to treat me like shi* and ignore all of my complaints...


  • KilrB, Dervim, FOE et 4 autres aiment ceci

#9093
Sartoz

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 Big Snip

------------

It is time to write off DAI's monetary loss and move on; 

 

-------

snip

 

 

Monetary loss? Is that why DAI is selling at 30% off in Originitis?... to try to generate sales?

 

I'd like to read the article if there is one....
 


  • Spitfire aime ceci

#9094
vetlet

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Lord Crash - I'm more of a fan of "medieval" looking RPGs..."cartoony" looking stuff doesn't normally do it for me.  I prefer the medieval/fantasy sort of genre to most other, in look and feel.  Maybe I read to many J.R.R. Tolkien books as a kid.  It warped my brain...but that's what I like.  Go figure.  I also enjoy a sense of realism where I can get it, although I don't necessarily need the latest and greatest gaming visuals to be content - I'm looking at you, Frostbyte engine.  Thanks for the recommendation(s) though.

 

If you haven't played them Witcher 1 and 2 are good. And deffo go for Divinity Original Sin.



#9095
His Majesty Lord Crash

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I remember this great interview with Larian's Swen Vincke. His assessment about European and American dev culture is pretty obvious and fitting in the case of DOS and DAI:

 

[...]

 

Me: There’s a disparity between gamers in the US and Europe – and both regions create very different RPG’s. The differences are incredibly bold.

 

Swen: Yes, you see them right away.

 

Me: To me, American RPG’s seem very ideological – they often take a stance – they are very ideological gamers. Be the best of everything; be a hero, be a good person – but their games often are unmatched in fidelity and polish.

 

Swen: Ideological, that’s interesting… the problem is we don’t have the polish. If we [European developers] had the resources that they have, we would be at least matched. That’s what CD Projekt is also trying. If you can have the polish of what they do, with the core values of what we do… I really think it’s a cultural thing… there’s a culture in the games that we make that you will not find in American RPG’s, and vice versa. I mean, I’ve loved quite a lot of American RPG’s – there were some really good ones in the past; Ultima is one of my favorite RPG’s of all time. There are a lot of good Russian RPG’s, they just don’t have any production values at all.

 

Me: Do you think European developers aim their games towards older audiences?

 

Swen: I think European games developers aim their games at themselves. And that American developers aim them towards a ‘target audience’, and that’s a very big difference. I’ve seen this myself – I mean, this one [Original Sin] is made for me and my girlfriend, because we were playing Dark Alliance and I said “ah, I like the fact that I am playing together with you, but there’s nothing to do. It’s just hacking and slashing,” and so from there came Original Sin. If I like it, and he likes it [points to imaginary co-developer, not his girlfriend], then there are probably other gamers who will like it too.

 

Me: That seems very logical.

 

Swen: Yeah, but it’s surprising how that logic is ignored when you look at it from a publisher perspective, when you have your stocks, charts, percentages… When you sit into those meetings – you lose your head, right! You’re just following numbers [mocks number crunching and talking about stocks] “who can release an RPG without Facebook intergration!” What the hell? [laughs].

 

Me: EA have a phrase they seem to use a lot: “resonate well with the consumer.”

 

Swen: There’s three things wrong with that. The first thing is “resonate” – what kind of word is that? Who talks about the player as a “consumer,” it’s like a product – what the hell, it’s a game? When you hear things like that – you know… I knew a marketing director from the perfume industry. He’d never played a game in his life, but he was going to tell me what an RPG needs to be. He said “I’ve done my research!” So he came up with a list of things that RPG’s had to have, and I said “what are you talking about?”

 

People hear these stories – they think we’re exaggerating, but they’re true! We witnessed them! Usually the marketing director is the guy who is going to decide if the game is made, or not. I was in greenlight meetings where my game was well received by everyone, except the marketing director. The others wanted to do it, but the guy didn’t want to do it. That guy hasn’t played a game in his life, yet he’s the one who gets to decide.

 

[Laughs] Okay I’m making a caricature of it, but this is pretty much what it’s like. Not always, not everywhere – but it’s often the case. There’s been such amount of bad games, so much money wasted if you think about it. Think of all the licensed games – movie licenses – thank god there were a few good ones, but most of them are total crap. Why did they even get made? Because there was an audience for it, and the audience was apparently larger than the hardcore gamers.

 

The damage that has been done to video games development as an art is enormous. It set back the evolution, the artwork, really by decades.

 

Thankfully, digital distributors – who are of course in it for the money – shortened the gap, and developers can now really figure out who their players are [without publishers].


[...]
 

http://pcgmedia.com/...os-swen-vincke/


  • Astralify, Diegofsv, LunaFancy et 1 autre aiment ceci

#9096
Diegofsv

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Couldn't disagree with this more. Not all streamlining is bad. Mass effect NEEDED to be streamlined. Weapon skills NEVER made sense in that game. You were a war hero BEFORE the start of the game but couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a gun because RPG tradition demanded you had to waste your time putting skill points into something any idiot that made it through boot camp would be able to do. The shooting mechanics were God awful, the enemies were bullet sponges, the AI was terrible, the weapons were VERY samey, etc, etc, etc. I thank the heavens every day the changes made to mass effect were made cause it made it into possibly my favorite franchise of all time.

Where I agreed with you do is that dragon age should have never tried to become mass effect with swords. THAT, was dumb.

 

Like I said, it made sense in ME universe. While I liked the RPG aspect of the first one, the second one perffected a lot of what was wrong with the first one (but, story wise, the first one is the best for me, ever). But, doing that with Dragon Age was really dumb.



#9097
Sartoz

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If you haven't played them Witcher 1 and 2 are good. And deffo go for Divinity Original Sin.

Playing it now, actually.... switching back and forth... aint windows grand?


  • vetlet aime ceci

#9098
Dan Dillo

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Monetary loss? Is that why DAI is selling at 30% off in Originitis?... to try to generate sales?

 

I'd like to read the article if there is one....
 

 

The monetary loss is mine. (Preordered the deluxe game at full price based on the pre-launch hype that DAI was the second coming of DAO - call me a fool!)

 

I have no idea how DAI itself is doing financially.


  • Spitfire aime ceci

#9099
His Majesty Lord Crash

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@FOE

People from GOG.com are just playing Divinity: Original Sin on twitch.tv/GOGcom. And Farhang Namdar, the lead designer of the game, is on the twitch chat if you have questions. ;)


  • sporkmunster et FOE aiment ceci

#9100
Bavarian Warden

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I remember this great interview with Larian's Swen Vincke. His assessment about European and American dev culture is pretty obvious and fitting in the case of DOS and DAI:

 

http://pcgmedia.com/...os-swen-vincke/

 

i was on holiday so very

sorry for re- or crossposting but this recent blog entry of Swen should be the norm of dev-gamer communication..he even critizies en detail and very honest what he did not like about his own game divinity original sin (D:OS)

 

http://www.lar.net/2...016-and-beyond/

 

 

to quote some passages:

 

"(...)

Since I like contrast, today’s blog entry is going to be about everything that sucked about Divinity:Original Sin icon_wink.gif

Or rather, it’s going to be about how we hope to do better in the coming years, and what steps we are taking to make it so. In other words, I’ll try to tell you without telling you exactly what our plans are for the next years.

Progress can only be made if you’re aware of your faults and intend to do something about it, so explaining our plans starts with explaining what I think sucked about D:OS and more importantly, why those sucky things made it to the final game.

In one paragraph and unsurprisingly, my biggest issues with the game are the same things most people had issues with. I think the main story can be told a lot better and has more potential than is apparent, that combat falls a bit flat after act 1 and that crafting,inventory & trade UIs could use a bunch of improvements. Certain dialogs should be done better, there’s still a lot of feedback missing from tooltips & skills, and at higher levels character progression isn’t as cool as it should be. Our loot system doesn’t behave as hoped for, and the companions could use some work.(...)"


Modifié par Bavarian Warden, 06 janvier 2015 - 07:17 .