19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Bethgael]

BammBamm, did we just agree on something?

 

[BammBamm]

BammBamm, did we just agree on something?

 

 

as said before, i'm not a blind fanboy, maybe just a little bit more realistic because i'm not so emotional attached to the dragon age series

[Jaron Oberyn]

Communication teams, works under PR or SMM departments depending on the company, always covers the holidays with replacements. I work for a global company as well. Even though we are not a software firm, we have obligations to the customers around the world like EA does and always have Twitter accounts up. I mean actually up, not only writing "Thanks!! I hope you are enjoying the game!" and answers questions as well.

 

I dev team is on a holiday, that does not mean PR or Social Media Management is also in holiday. On the contrary, they should be the ones who are working hard since its after-sales support period now.

 

I'm aware of that. Like I said to the best of my knowledge the twitter accounts for Bioware never ceased over the holidays. The personal accounts for the developers might have, but the official accounts seemed to have still been active. 

 

 

If you are truly blind to common courtesy here you go, on this very same page towards Brogan:

 

 

All your accusations and insults riling him up, and you've been doing this to every poster in this thread who is understandably angered by their experience with DAI since launch. Do you understand? Are you capable of seeing this in your own posts?

I never riled Brogan up at all, you should include his post that I was responding to in my quote above rather than taking it out of context to suit your agenda. I'm not even going to bother engaging with you any further. You are very well aware that my posts were not incendiary in the slightest, but the responses to them have been including your own. 

 

@jason oberyn

 

while i agree with you about a lot of things like the overall state of the game (its not unfinished but maybe not polished) or many problems come from people that just refuse to get used to new controls i totally disagree with the holiday thing.

 

i mean i myself, you, every gamer and every dev knows that the development of a game is not finished at release day. every game has smaller and bigger problems after it and the developer has to take care that he fixes them as fast as possible or has to take the consequences in form of angry players. i mean nobody expect that the devs work at christmas or new years eve, but to go on holidays for weeks is another thing. and to use it as a reason for the patch being delayed is utterly stupid.

 

maybe a possibility would have been to let a small team work on little things like mouse bindings so they could show at least something, or hire a community manager to try one hour or two per day to do damage control with the customers. but there was nothing! oh there was celebrating itself with goty awards and reports of playing other games which is more of a provocation than just staying completly silent. i mean we talk about people that still cant play the game or even worse, cant play the game after patch 2 anymore. little tweeks like mousebinding still doesnt work 2 month after launch. thats not customer friendly in any way and other companies show it can be handled in a better way.

 

i really grant devs their holidays, but the paying customers didnt force bioware to release the game before a holiday season while everybody knows the development goes on for at least 2 or 3 month after release and the customers didnt expect a huge patch after patch 2 that (hopefully) fixes a lot of problems at once. a lot of the frustration and the shitstorm could have been avoided or at least reduced and there is no one to blame here except bioware that things exploded. the supporting of the game and the communication after release was a desaster, no doubt about that

When you're working year round, and on weekends a few weeks at the end of the year is necessary to preserve your sanity. And to tell you the truth, I doubt all of the devs truly rested on their break as many are prone to working even at home simply because it is a labor of love for many of them. The duration of Patch 3's development is no doubt due to Bioware taking the time necessary to get as many major issues fixed as they can. The PC concerns raised in this thread were supposed to be addressed in P3 as well, which no doubt contributed to its development time. The devs could post a picture of themselves drinking starbucks and people would rip them apart for taking a coffee break when they should be fixing the bugs. Some people don't understand the amount of work that goes into making these games, and the sacrifices these people make with their own time in order to deliver the best game they possibly can. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but again what game is? And lets remember this game was delayed twice, once for a year and again for a month. I hear where you're coming from, and I sympathize with you. I can't even play MP because I refuse to update to patch 2 due to the amount of bugs it introduces. But I also know people in the industry and I know how hard these people are worked. Complaining over a few weeks of well deserved vacation, I just can't get behind that. 

[Bethgael]

I'll be less emotionally involved when I find out what happens to

Spoiler

Hawke or the Warden

at

Spoiler

Weisshaupt

.



ETA: And it says a lot that I'm more invested in characters from the previous two installments than I am in my inquisitors. And I like my Inquistors.

I just want to see the franchise live up to its promised potential. So much potential.

[Amplitudelol]

The stupid PC community is the reason for everything bad about this game. Give it a few more pages and you eventually get there.

[glosoli]

 

 

I'm aware of that. Like I said to the best of my knowledge the twitter accounts for Bioware never ceased over the holidays. The personal accounts for the developers might have, but the official accounts seemed to have still been active. 

 

 

 

They are NOT active. They only answer to good wishes. How come does it count as "active"? Hell, they only needed to hire some social media staff. How hard can that be? You will understand when you look at Blizzard or Bethesda forums. BW official forums are so deserted that we saw people cursing in this thread just to test if there is any moderation around. Result: deserted.

[Jackal19851111]

I'm a fanboy, that's why I want this game to be fixed so I can recommend it.

 

Instead my mates are just shaking their head at my frustrations, and decided not to buy DAI.

 

Mate: Slow down, why are you running all the time?

Me: Can't walk on PC

Mate: WTF?

 

Mate: So how do you block in this game?

Me: I binded it to Q

Mate: Why Q and not the mouse?

 

So much for getting my mates into DAI...

[Jaron Oberyn]

They are NOT active. They only answer to good wishes. How come does it count as "active"? Hell, they only needed to hire some social media staff. How hard can that be? You will understand when you look at Blizzard or Bethesda forums. BW official forums are so deserted that we saw people cursing in this thread just to test if there is any moderation around. Result: deserted.

Look at the official twitter account for DA and switch to the tweet & replies tab. We've already been over the forums, this has been known since 2010. Bioware themselves stated that they tend to avoid these forums, I don't see why it would change especially since the community certainly hasn't grown any kinder in recent years. 

[glosoli]

Look at the official twitter account for DA and switch to the tweet & replies tab. We've already been over the forums, this has been known since 2010. Bioware themselves stated that they tend to avoid these forums, I don't see why it would change especially since the community certainly hasn't grown any kinder in recent years. 

 

I wonder why the community hasn't grown any kinder. Lack of communication, deception before the release perhaps? Why would you be kind to anyone who promised something and delivers a completely different product?

[voteDC]

The problem is that a lot of little things that aren't 'polished' do mount up. On their own they would be an easily ignored annoyance, put them all together and they can make the game 'unplayable' for some.

It's what has happened to me. Those little things make me not want to continue.
 

 

Look at the official twitter account for DA and switch to the tweet & replies tab. We've already been over the forums, this has been known since 2010. Bioware themselves stated that they tend to avoid these forums, I don't see why it would change especially since the community certainly hasn't grown any kinder in recent years. 

 

This is actually a great puzzle to me.

Do they really have greater control over 'toxic' posters on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, etc than they do on their own forum? If they do then they should get their web-team to look into how to make those features available here.

[BammBamm]

When you're working year round, and on weekends a few weeks at the end of the year is necessary to preserve your sanity. And to tell you the truth, I doubt all of the devs truly rested on their break as many are prone to working even at home simply because it is a labor of love for many of them. The duration of Patch 3's development is no doubt due to Bioware taking the time necessary to get as many major issues fixed as they can. The PC concerns raised in this thread were supposed to be addressed in P3 as well, which no doubt contributed to its development time. The devs could post a picture of themselves drinking starbucks and people would rip them apart for taking a coffee break when they should be fixing the bugs. Some people don't understand the amount of work that goes into making these games, and the sacrifices these people make with their own time in order to deliver the best game they possibly can. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but again what game is? And lets remember this game was delayed twice, once for a year and again for a month. I hear where you're coming from, and I sympathize with you. I can't even play MP because I refuse to update to patch 2 due to the amount of bugs it introduces. But I also know people in the industry and I know how hard these people are worked. Complaining over a few weeks of well deserved vacation, I just can't get behind that. 

 

 

totally agree with you, but its a fact that the after release phase is the most important. thats were the problems comes to daylight and even more important, the customers that pay the living of devs recognize them. so if a company sucks the power of their employees before release thats nothing left after it its a problem of time managment or greed and not a problem on the customers site.

and i agree with you about devs worked over the holidays, but it was not communicated in anyway, it was the totally opposite and so the mentioned communication disaster.

 

i owned for over 10 years a record store, worked 10-12 hours on a daily basis at least 6 days a week. still i couldnt effort to ****** off my customers or do lazy work because the customers just dont care. they give you money and expect in return you are doing your job and thats totally fine, my problems are not the problems of my customers.

[voteDC]

 

When you're working year round, and on weekends a few weeks at the end of the year is necessary to preserve your sanity. And to tell you the truth, I doubt all of the devs truly rested on their break as many are prone to working even at home simply because it is a labor of love for many of them. 

I work 10 to 12 hour days, six days a week, all year. That includes holidays such as Christmas Day. If I tried to book a month off I would be laughed out of my manager's office. When at home I still have paperwork to do. My day off is rarely a day off.

So while I don't begrudge people a break, I do lack sympathy for the hours that Bioware developers have had to work while making Inquisition. 

[Innsmouth Dweller]

I'm a fanboy, that's why I want this game to be fixed so I can recommend it.

 

Instead my mates are just shaking their head at my frustrations, and decided not to buy DAI.

 

Mate: Slow down, why are you running all the time?

Me: Can't walk on PC

Mate: WTF?

 

Mate: So how do you block in this game?

Me: I binded it to Q

Mate: Why Q and not the mouse?

 

So much for getting my mates into DAI...

dear Maker, i have xmas flashback

 

Me: Oh, for the love... stay, hold, you f..n idiot!

Hubby: What's that?

Me: New Dragon Age! Move. Move! It's fire, it burns! And don't you dare to recast barrier on me, cast it on tank, you useless, dumb.. &^@$!!!

Hubby: Why don't you play a mage?

Me: I DO. They changed it in previous game, you do that dance-thing instead of casting spells

Hubby: Zoom it out, I can't see what's happening

Me: I CAN'T! Wait! Don't cast that here! You'll pull everyone into melee range! He does AoE, ffs!!!

Hubby: Why do you even play it?

Me: Because i love DA!

*crash to desktop*

Me: I like having my heart broken! Go away!

[Ashkalel]

 

 

There was nothing unfinished about the game....

 

 

...I see. Must be the reason why there are 10.000 posts in this thread.

 

If you're referring to a few bugs that were around during launch, I'd like you to point me to one game or piece of software that is 100% bug free. You can't, because it doesn't exist. The second patch is a product of an impatient community that wanted to rush the dev team to quick resolution of very minor issues...

Of course they are impatient. They want to play that game, they don´t want to work it. How dare you calling these issues "very minor". I had CTD´s before Patch 2 was launched, so this is not minor for me. A whole holiday week of gaming for me down the drain. No problems, so I had time to finish my Glitch Hop Set . Congrats for not having major issues but do not slap the face of people who cant play at all.

Imagine a dishwasher not cleaning forks. The marketing guys praised a game for PC gamers like my predecessor mentioned a thousand times. But look at the final product...Yes it RUNS on a PC...not stable, not easily operated...but hey, we can be lucky.

That slick marketing BS is the most painful issue at least for me and for a couple of users. This and the creepy silence. And as long as Bioware/EA link to this forum in Origin I do not care about twitter (not using it anyway).

I presume all people know that patching takes some time, imagine what happens to this thread if they don´t touch any of Brogans issues (which are imo the most urgent + fixing CTD´s).

Greetings

[Jaron Oberyn]

I wonder why the community hasn't grown any kinder. Lack of communication, deception before the release perhaps? Why would you be kind to anyone who promised something and delivers a completely different product?

Lack of communication, sure. Deception? That's a little far fetched.

 

The problem is that a lot of little things that aren't 'polished' do mount up. On their own they would be an easily ignored annoyance, put them all together and they can make the game 'unplayable' for some.

It's what has happened to me. Those little things make me not want to continue.
 

 

 

This is actually a great puzzle to me.

Do they really have greater control over 'toxic' posters on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, etc than they do on their own forum? If they do then they should get their web-team to look into how to make those features available here.

CTDs and freezes make the game unplayable. Control preferences, while a strong issue for some, ultimately do not. On the bright side Bioware has mentioned they will be addressing these preferences and QOL improvements for those who wanted them in the next patch. 

 

I agree with your second statement, that has puzzled me as well. If anything they would have less control, though from what I've heard some people say that reddit has handed out bans to those who speak ill of the game on their forums. Not sure if that's true or not, but I've heard it mentioned around here a few times.

 

totally agree with you, but its a fact that the after release phase is the most important. thats were the problems comes to daylight and even more important, the customers that pay the living of devs recognize them. so if a company sucks the power of their employees before release thats nothing left after it its a problem of time managment or greed and not a problem on the customers site.

and i agree with you about devs worked over the holidays, but it was not communicated in anyway, it was the totally opposite and so the mentioned communication disaster.

 

i owned for over 10 years a record store, worked 10-12 hours on a daily basis at least 6 days a week. still i couldnt effort to ****** off my customers or do lazy work because the customers just dont care. they give you money and expect in return you are doing your job and thats totally fine, my problems are not the problems of my customers.

 

I agree, the months directly after release are critical for post launch support. Perhaps they should have delayed the game to a January launch which would have allowed them to have more time to work on the game and avoid issues with holidays were there a need for further support post launch. I think they might have been afraid to delay it again though, as people were becoming increasingly upset since it was delayed once for a year, and then again for a month. 

 

I feel like we're in agreement over the holiday thing, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean with your last sentence. The individual developers signed off so to speak over the holidays, but the official account was still active and talking to people. They had already announced their development of P3 before P2 even went live early December, and as I mentioned earlier I doubt the developers truly took the entire period off as most of them tend to work when they're off to begin with. I've seen far too many tweets over the past 5 years of developers working weekends, or when they're off just because they enjoy their work or want to deliver something for the fans. And it's good to remember that they're using the same builds as we are, especially since they have DLC in the works which requires the latest game updates. So they have just as much reason to see the bugs fixed for their personal enjoyment as they do for the satisfaction of the consumers. No one is going to buy a singleplayer DLC if the game constantly CTDs or has cinematic freezes. 

[voteDC]

Lack of communication, sure. Deception? That's a little far fetched.

 

CTDs and freezes make the game unplayable. Control preferences, while a strong issue for some, ultimately do not. On the bright side Bioware has mentioned they will be addressing these preferences and QOL improvements for those who wanted them in the next patch. 

 

I agree with your second statement, that has puzzled me as well. If anything they would have less control, though from what I've heard some people say that reddit has handed out bans to those who speak ill of the game on their forums. Not sure if that's true or not, but I've heard it mentioned around here a few times.

Control preferences might not make the game unplayable to you, but for others they little annoyances do mount up to unplayable for them. Every one has different tolerances to such things, not everyone has your level.

As I said elsewhere. I'm waiting to the end of the month to see if any improvements are going to be made to the keyboard and mouse controls, then I'm going to bite the bullet and use my 360 controller.

[Jaron Oberyn]

I work 10 to 12 hour days, six days a week, all year. That includes holidays such as Christmas Day. If I tried to book a month off I would be laughed out of my manager's office. When at home I still have paperwork to do. My day off is rarely a day off.

So while I don't begrudge people a break, I do lack sympathy for the hours that Bioware developers have had to work while making Inquisition. 

I've seen tweets in the past where developers were running on two hours of sleep a day, and video interviews where you could see the bags under their eyes. Not to say that you may not have faced similar, but two wrongs doesn't make a right. Different jobs have different flexibilities when it comes to off times. Teachers for example work very hard, and are compensated for that with the entire summer being off. 

 

...I see. Must be the reason why there are 10.000 posts in this thread.

Of course they are impatient. They want to play that game, they don´t want to work it. How dare you calling these issues "very minor". I had CTD´s before Patch 2 was launched, so this is not minor for me. A whole holiday week of gaming for me down the drain. No problems, so I had time to finish my Glitch Hop Set . Congrats for not having major issues but do not slap the face of people who cant play at all.

Imagine a dishwasher not cleaning forks. The marketing guys praised a game for PC gamers like my predecessor mentioned a thousand times. But look at the final product...Yes it RUNS on a PC...not stable, not easily operated...but hey, we can be lucky.

That slick marketing BS is the most painful issue at least for me and for a couple of users. This and the creepy silence. And as long as Bioware/EA link to this forum in Origin I do not care about twitter (not using it anyway).

I presume all people know that patching takes some time, imagine what happens to this thread if they don´t touch any of Brogans issues (which are imo the most urgent + fixing CTD´s).

Greetings

Bugs are not indicative of an unfinished game. If it was missing story elements or things of that sort, you could argue it was unfinished. As I've mentioned time and time again, there is not a single game that is bug free. The bugs prior to patch 2 were minor compared to the game breaking bugs of patch 2. I've experienced CTDs on my current build (pre P2). About 3 over the course of 5 playthroughs which clocked over 200 hours. That isn't gamebreaking. P2 introduced CTDs for people who didn't have them, in addition to those that did, and increased the frequency of said CTDs. I'd take the 3 crashes/200 hours over the crashes when you land on the wrong side of a rock or enter a conversation any day. I've also spoken to several people who upgraded to P2 and have had data corruption in their game files, forcing them to repair the game 3-4 times a week before they can even load a save. This wouldn't have been the case had they not rushed out Patch 2 before the holiday break. 

 

As far as stability is concerned, that's Frostbite in general. BF3/4 have been plagued with CTDs and other bugs themselves, on both consoles and PC. 

[glosoli]

Deception is far fetched? I'm sure someone posted "made by PC gamers" video a couple pages back.

[Amplitudelol]

I wonder why the community hasn't grown any kinder. Lack of communication, deception before the release perhaps? Why would you be kind to anyone who promised something and delivers a completely different product?

 

edit: need to make a hint, some people just dont get it. Starcraft is known by any RTS fan, one of the best real time strategy games. Emphasis on real time strategy.

 

Imagine Blizzard makes video about Starcraft 3 being the best RTS in existence of PC gaming when its coming out and it will emphasis on the strength of SC1 and after that they release a turn based strategy game which has better control with a controller and there are so many performance and bug issues it makes you think this is still beta. Sure, a lot of people like turned based strategy, it gets a lot of goty. This happens in end of november then the whole company goes for a two month holiday break, except they acknowledge GOTY awards for best turn based strategy game. Then when you look up what is going on on battle.net forums some guy tells you "why you whining everything is fine why you bought the game patching takes time".

 

You dont need to imagine, its happening right now but with bioware and dragon age.

 

Now that's some pc community concern for you bioware.

Modifié par Amplitudelol, 17 janvier 2015 - 12:20 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

Deception is far fetched? I'm sure someone posted "made by PC gamers" video a couple pages back.

And I don't have to reiterate that not every PC gamer has an issue with the game. Are you entitled to your opinion that the game doesn't meet your standards of what a PC game is? Sure, but the majority of PC gamers have no problem with it (And because it needs to be stated apparently, this doesn't mean people don't have a problem with it), so to cite that video as if it was deceptive towards all PC gamers is disingenuous at best. It's a matter of perspective. If you want to talk about true deceptive marketing, look no further than the ME3 Thessia decisions/consequences video. We're obviously not going to agree on this point so no use in going in circles. Best to just agree to disagree. 

 

 

 

Imagine Blizzard makes video about Starcraft 3 being the best RTS in existence of PC gaming when its coming out and it will emphasis on the strength of SC1 and after that they release a turn based strategy game which has better control with a controller and there are so many performance and bug issues it makes you think this is still beta. This happens in end of november then the whole company goes for a two month holiday break, except they acknowledge GOTY awards for best turn based strategy game. Then when you look up what is going on on battle.net forums some guy tells you "why you whining everything is fine why you bought the game patching takes time".

Again, they already stated they were working on Patch 3. Did you expect them to give you the minute to minute play by play? We know that it is in development.

 

[Jaron Oberyn]

Sad, but many people in a few years will be like:

 

Not just that, but many who criticize the direction DAI took with gameplay/story will praise it as soon as they see the direction of DA4. Mark my words, it happens every time. 

[BammBamm]

I agree, the months directly after release are critical for post launch support. Perhaps they should have delayed the game to a January launch which would have allowed them to have more time to work on the game and avoid issues with holidays were there a need for further support post launch. I think they might have been afraid to delay it again though, as people were becoming increasingly upset since it was delayed once for a year, and then again for a month. 

 

I feel like we're in agreement over the holiday thing, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean with your last sentence. The individual developers signed off so to speak over the holidays, but the official account was still active and talking to people. They had already announced their development of P3 before P2 even went live early December, and as I mentioned earlier I doubt the developers truly took the entire period off as most of them tend to work when they're off to begin with. I've seen far too many tweets over the past 5 years of developers working weekends, or when they're off just because they enjoy their work or want to deliver something for the fans. And it's good to remember that they're using the same builds as we are, especially since they have DLC in the works which requires the latest game updates. So they have just as much reason to see the bugs fixed for their personal enjoyment as they do for the satisfaction of the consumers. No one is going to buy a singleplayer DLC if the game constantly CTDs or has cinematic freezes. 

 

i dont blame the developers, i blame the responsible persons like darrah and laidlaw. but as a customer its difficult to distinguish because in the end the only thing that counts is a highly successfull game with minor support and even less communication (at least on their official forums). when a studio isnt capable to release the most basic information on their own game forums its either pure lazyness or totally ignorance. both is very bad community managment and backlashes to the studio as a whole and would be totally avoidable.

 

for me nearly everything darrah and laidlaw said fueled the shitstorm in everyway possible, while people complain about bad (or no) communication they ignored the official forum completly while doing the twitter, playing everytime with a controler while people complain about mouse and keyboard controls,  announcing da:i started as a multiplayergame (maybe differ between coop and mmorpg) while people complain about mmo'ish gamestyle etc. it was hillarious. these guys have lost every connection to reality or just have very very bad social skills and the game, the studio, and the developers have to suffer for it.

 

[evgenija28]

So, no new patches yet?

[Amplitudelol]

 

Again, they already stated they were working on Patch 3. Did you expect them to give you the minute to minute play by play? We know that it is in development.

 

What specific problems did they acknowledge? None. For all I know they dont even know they should do anything about tac cam. And you didnt get the point.