19127 réponses à ce sujet

[moonblade_820]

Ok friends,
I spent. Some time talking with some guys who really knows about programming and stuff like that. Two of them are working in two different bige studios and they told me some bad news.

1) the problem with DAI is much more complicated than bioware was expecting. It is related with the expansion of AMD. Lets talk a little bit about that issue. Historically NVidia was the number one in the graphics trend. So every console was using Nvidia chips. Regarding on pc market nvidia shares the comfortable 70 per cent, everybody was using 3dx. The low architecture of programing language was the same, so the world was boring but happy.
2) The "problem" is AMD has gained much market in tha last years so today both "premium" consoles uses AMD chipset. Well the pc community is target by the pirate's work so that is no way a pc market could generate more money than the console.
3) Due the enhanced market share, AMD developed new features especially the Mantle layer so all the low level language (that can access the hardware-based memory) became very different from 3DX. One can argue this is better because mantle CAN improve the performance on AMD graphic card, but the problem is the architecture on hardware is very different.
4) Bioware clearly choose the console's share of the market so they decided to develop the game primarily for the console. This is very important to understand as the low level programming language is very different on both platforms. But Bioware was counting they can develop an emulator that can fit in the pc. Thats why DAI is so demanding of hardware power. Actually, there are two different programs being processed: The game primarily developed for the consoles and the real time emulator (on pc platform).
5) The problem was every pc that have nvidia card will experience some huge problems due the fact tha the pc emulator was constructed based on AMD architecture. Well, in the firsts two months Bioware thought they were facing some minor bugs, but when they launched the patches and it turns out to be useless (or almost useless after all) they realize the problem was deeper.
6) Basically they locked themselves and evaded any communication because they realize they will need to repack almost the entire game due the low level assessment of hardware. This is not an easy thing to accomplish. They cannot simply presents a deadline or something like that to present a working patch, so they decided to avoid any communication at all. Expecting to use the "all in" strategy: They will loose the costumers they need to and when the patch is ready they will try to rebuild they image. There are no reason to argue in this forum or systematically communicate excuses. The king is already dead. When we have another king so "long live to the king".
7) All of this didnt deal with the issues of tactical cam, and the IA bugs or other problems that is actually part of the game. All this explanation only refers to the limits of what Bioware can really do and in which time, because the poor choice they made developing this game on console platform and then emulating it into a pc.
8) As far as my "advisors" told me we shouldn't expect no huge fix especially in this month or in the next. Thats why Bioware locked itself up, they realize they are in deep trouble.

[moonblade_820]

Sorry for the misspellings.

[atlantico]

Good to know Forbes refuses to be bribe by EA giving fake good reviews.

'Dragon Age: Inquisition' As Game Of The Year Is Like 'Crash' Winning The Oscar

http://www.forbes.co...ning-the-oscar/

Yes ... and no. Yes, it's great the Forbes is above bribery or coercion, but no, because the reviewer is a complete airhead. Let me quote from the Forbes article:

 

 

 

The combat is another area that’s wobbly for me. Either it’s incredibly simplistic, as you mash all your spell buttons and chug potions until hopefully all the enemies die before your team does. Or it’s ridiculously complex with a top-down combat view and a long list of queued actions and preferred behaviors that’s incredibly tedious and ultimately unnecessary except for the hardest battles or most difficult gameplay modes. There’s no middle ground between stupidly straightforward and alarmingly complex.

 

The tactical camera is has flaws, but it isn't top-down. We *wish* there were "a long list of queued actions", there is no such thing. Or "a long list of preferred behaviors". 

 

But this is from a guy who broke down over the complexity of DA:O and well, considering how he describes his experience with DA:I, that's hardly a big surprise:

 

 

 

I’ve never managed to get into Dragon Age, despite playing all three games extensively. I hated the silent protagonist of Origins, and the dice-rolly combat system that felt dated even back then, and was frustratingly paired with a wildly uneven difficulty curve. 

 

More talky-talk and less thinky-think, is the general preference of that fine reviewer. 

[pdusen]

QFT

Couldn't agree more.

Their elitist, can't be bothered with the "commoners", "users", "peasants" (fill in the blank) ... whatever we're known as in their Ivory Tower attitude rubbed me raw like 50-grit sandpaper. Every stupid tweet praising GOTY while completely IGNORING us re-rubbed that raw spot on my soul.

If you can tweet about GOTY on your vacation, you can communicate that you're listening and something will be worked on. Instead they couldn't be bothered. This is NOT a dev issue with me ... it's a management one (Laidlaw and Darrah). These guys are simpleton tools as far as I'm concerned. Their reputations (along with BooWare) have forever been tarnished with me. Anything with these guys names associated with it will be suspect and viewed with caution.

Called it.

[pdusen]

Ok friends,
I spent. Some time talking with some guys who really knows about programming and stuff like that. Two of them are working in two different bige studios and they told me some bad news.

1) the problem with DAI is much more complicated than bioware was expecting. It is related with the expansion of AMD. Lets talk a little bit about that issue. Historically NVidia was the number one in the graphics trend. So every console was using Nvidia chips. Regarding on pc market nvidia shares the comfortable 70 per cent, everybody was using 3dx. The low architecture of programing language was the same, so the world was boring but happy.
2) The "problem" is AMD has gained much market in tha last years so today both "premium" consoles uses AMD chipset. Well the pc community is target by the pirate's work so that is no way a pc market could generate more money than the console.
3) Due the enhanced market share, AMD developed new features especially the Mantle layer so all the low level language (that can access the hardware-based memory) became very different from 3DX. One can argue this is better because mantle CAN improve the performance on AMD graphic card, but the problem is the architecture on hardware is very different.
4) Bioware clearly choose the console's share of the market so they decided to develop the game primarily for the console. This is very important to understand as the low level programming language is very different on both platforms. But Bioware was counting they can develop an emulator that can fit in the pc. Thats why DAI is so demanding of hardware power. Actually, there are two different programs being processed: The game primarily developed for the consoles and the real time emulator (on pc platform).
5) The problem was every pc that have nvidia card will experience some huge problems due the fact tha the pc emulator was constructed based on AMD architecture. Well, in the firsts two months Bioware thought they were facing some minor bugs, but when they launched the patches and it turns out to be useless (or almost useless after all) they realize the problem was deeper.
6) Basically they locked themselves and evaded any communication because they realize they will need to repack almost the entire game due the low level assessment of hardware. This is not an easy thing to accomplish. They cannot simply presents a deadline or something like that to present a working patch, so they decided to avoid any communication at all. Expecting to use the "all in" strategy: They will loose the costumers they need to and when the patch is ready they will try to rebuild they image. There are no reason to argue in this forum or systematically communicate excuses. The king is already dead. When we have another king so "long live to the king".
7) All of this didnt deal with the issues of tactical cam, and the IA bugs or other problems that is actually part of the game. All this explanation only refers to the limits of what Bioware can really do and in which time, because the poor choice they made developing this game on console platform and then emulating it into a pc.
8) As far as my "advisors" told me we shouldn't expect no huge fix especially in this month or in the next. Thats why Bioware locked itself up, they realize they are in deep trouble.

...as someone who actually works in software with these kinds of technologies, I can tell your that your sources have a less than perfect understanding of the situation, so you should take what they said with an enormous block of salt.

[Ashen Nedra]

...as someone who actually works in software with these kinds of technologies, I can tell your that your sources have a less than perfect understanding of the situation, so you should take what they said with an enormous block of salt.

 

 

Could you elaborate please, I'm curious?  This is not a tricky or leading question.  I don't know the first thing about programming; I did notice on the forums that most AMD users seem to have a lot less glitches and bugs, though. 

[Ashen Nedra]

...as someone who actually works in software with these kinds of technologies, I can tell your that your sources have a less than perfect understanding of the situation, so you should take what they said with an enormous block of salt.

 

 

Ah sorry, I checked your likes: you're the guy who thinks that 'this thread is disgusting'.  Never mind. So, you like to waddle in filth, do you? Naughty, naughty boy...

 

 

You know what guys? Programming major patches takes time. Two or three months for a major patch isn't at all unreasonable. And this wait had holidays in the middle of it to inflate that time.

But inside of a week, this thread was filled with nothing but abuse and vitriol toward the Devs. You, as a group, have no patience.

I heard some of you blame it on the Devs' silence. If they were still working on it, what exactly would you want them to say? That they are still working on it? It didn't appease you the first few times, why would it appease you now?

How you ask for something has an impact on the response you get. This thread is disgusting. Enough people like the PC controls that, were I a Bioware dev, I'd be content to let you all rot in this thread and work on something else.

You should all be ashamed of your behavior. Not that I expect any of you to pull your heads out of your own butts long enough to realize that.

[atlantico]

Ok friends,
I spent. Some time talking with some guys who really knows about programming and stuff like that. Two of them are working in two different bige studios and they told me some bad news.

1) the problem with DAI is much more complicated than bioware was expecting. It is related with the expansion of AMD. Lets talk a little bit about that issue. Historically NVidia was the number one in the graphics trend. So every console was using Nvidia chips. Regarding on pc market nvidia shares the comfortable 70 per cent, everybody was using 3dx. The low architecture of programing language was the same, so the world was boring but happy.
2) The "problem" is AMD has gained much market in tha last years so today both "premium" consoles uses AMD chipset. Well the pc community is target by the pirate's work so that is no way a pc market could generate more money than the console.
3) Due the enhanced market share, AMD developed new features especially the Mantle layer so all the low level language (that can access the hardware-based memory) became very different from 3DX. One can argue this is better because mantle CAN improve the performance on AMD graphic card, but the problem is the architecture on hardware is very different.
4) Bioware clearly choose the console's share of the market so they decided to develop the game primarily for the console. This is very important to understand as the low level programming language is very different on both platforms. But Bioware was counting they can develop an emulator that can fit in the pc. Thats why DAI is so demanding of hardware power. Actually, there are two different programs being processed: The game primarily developed for the consoles and the real time emulator (on pc platform).
5) The problem was every pc that have nvidia card will experience some huge problems due the fact tha the pc emulator was constructed based on AMD architecture. Well, in the firsts two months Bioware thought they were facing some minor bugs, but when they launched the patches and it turns out to be useless (or almost useless after all) they realize the problem was deeper.
6) Basically they locked themselves and evaded any communication because they realize they will need to repack almost the entire game due the low level assessment of hardware. This is not an easy thing to accomplish. They cannot simply presents a deadline or something like that to present a working patch, so they decided to avoid any communication at all. Expecting to use the "all in" strategy: They will loose the costumers they need to and when the patch is ready they will try to rebuild they image. There are no reason to argue in this forum or systematically communicate excuses. The king is already dead. When we have another king so "long live to the king".
7) All of this didnt deal with the issues of tactical cam, and the IA bugs or other problems that is actually part of the game. All this explanation only refers to the limits of what Bioware can really do and in which time, because the poor choice they made developing this game on console platform and then emulating it into a pc.
8) As far as my "advisors" told me we shouldn't expect no huge fix especially in this month or in the next. Thats why Bioware locked itself up, they realize they are in deep trouble.

 

That is such utter nonsense. An epic scale nonesense.

 

1) Apart from the original XBOX, no major console has ever used an nvidia GPU. Most use in-house or AMD. That's been "the trend". XBOX being an exception, that no console maker seemed to want to try more than once, if ever.

 

2) Give or take half of all gaming PCs use AMD GPUs. There's nothing "nvidia" specific about PCs. Or AMD specific for that matter. That's because PCs use APIs, such as DX, OpenGL and Mantle (I'll get to Mantle) interchangeably.

 

3) Your friends don't seem to understand that Mantle is PC-only. Mantle is not used on the XBox One. Or the PS4. Or Nintendo Wii U, even though all use an AMD GPU. 

 

4) There is no emulation involved. At all, on the PC. The game behaves and looks differently on the PC, compared to consoles and such an endeavor would be incredibly time- and cost-consuming for no gain, because it is infinitely easier to recompile the code that is readily available anyway. 

 

5) Again, there is no emulation, the consoles do not use Mantle period. And Frostbite 3 (the rendering engine), like all good rendering engines, can use more than one 3D API. It can use DX, it can use Mantle and it can use whatever Sony and Nintendo call their rendering APIs. Good grief, rendering engines have been capable of using different 3D APIs since the 90s. 

 

6) Mantle is not being emulated by anything on nvidia GPUs on the PC, nvidia cards just use the DX11 that the game provides. It just so happens, that Mantle is a more modern 3D API which was designed and developed years after DX11. Which makes it 0% surprising that it is more stable, performs better and even looks better. It damn well should. Which brings us back to Mantle. It's not a hardware specific API and can be used by nvidia GPUS - as soon as AMD releases the final build of it. It's an API still in development. Whether or not nvidia decides to ever support Mantle is an academic question, but nvidia hardware can use Mantle just as easily as AMD hardware.

 

7) Bioware didn't "deal with the issues of the tactical cam" because they thought it good enough for release. It kind of is "good enough". It is stupid and flawed, but it "works". And that has everything to do with design decisions and is far outside the scope of any 3D API used. The people who designed the tac-cam and the UI had nothing to do with the Frostbite engine or 3D renderings. Just check the game's credits.

 

8) Yeah, I'd also put quotation marks around the word "advisors" in your case. That's putting it kindly. The game is perfectly playable on an nvidia GPU, best results are with an AMD GPU, but that's just DX11. It has always sucked. For everyone.

[Ashen Nedra]

That is such utter nonsense. An epic scale nonesense.

 

1) Apart from the original XBOX, no major console has ever used an nvidia GPU. Most use in-house or AMD. That's been "the trend". XBOX being an exception, that no console maker seemed to want to try more than once, if ever.

 

2) Give or take half of all gaming PCs use AMD GPUs. There's nothing "nvidia" specific about PCs. Or AMD specific for that matter. That's because PCs use APIs, such as DX, OpenGL and Mantle (I'll get to Mantle) interchangeably.

 

3) Your friends don't seem to understand that Mantle is PC-only. Mantle is not used on the XBox One. Or the PS4. Or Nintendo Wii U, even though all use an AMD GPU. 

 

4) There is no emulation involved. At all, on the PC. The game behaves and looks differently on the PC, compared to consoles and such an endeavor would be incredibly time- and cost-consuming for no gain, because it is infinitely easier to recompile the code that is readily available anyway. 

 

5) Again, there is no emulation, the consoles do not use Mantle and Frostbite 3 (the rendering engine), like all good rendering engines, can use more than one 3D API. It can use DX, it can use Mantle and it can use whatever Sony and Nintendo call their rendering APIs. Good grief, rendering engines have been capable of using different 3D APIs since the 90s. 

 

6) Mantle is not being emulated by anything on nvidia GPUs on the PC, nvidia cards just use the DX11 that the game provides. It just so happens, that Mantle is a more modern 3D API which was designed and developed years after DX11. Which makes it 0% surprising that it is more stable, performs better and even looks better. It damn well should. Which brings us back to Mantle. It's not a hardware specific API and can be used by nvidia GPUS - as soon as AMD releases the final build of it. It's an API still in development. Whether or not nvidia decides to ever support Mantle is an academic question, but nvidia hardware can use Mantle just as easily as AMD hardware.

 

7) Bioware didn't "deal with the issues of the tactical cam" because they thought it good enough for release. It kind of is "good enough". It is stupid and flawed, but it "works". And that has everything to do with design decisions and is far outside the scope of any 3D API used. The people who designed the tac-cam and the UI had nothing to do with the Frostbite engine or 3D renderings. Just check the game's credits.

 

8) Yeah, I'd also put quotation marks around the word "advisors" in your case. That's putting it kindly. The game is perfectly playable on an nvidia GPU, best results are with an AMD GPU, but that's just DX11. It has always sucked. For everyone.

OK, so that's what I thought.  They locked themselves in a tower because they know they are in big trouble allright: their game isn't good and EA is not interested in spending money to improve it.

 

Not a software issue, then.  Many thanks, Atlantico

[Sivit]

OK, so that's what I thought.  They locked themselves in a tower because they know they are in big trouble allright: their game isn't good and EA is not interested in spending money to improve it.

 

Not a software issue, then.  Many thanks, Atlantico

Soooo we aren't getting a patch until their sales start dipping?

[Ashen Nedra]

They already started: DAI is not a financial success.

[JackPoint]

Fellows in misery. So, this Weekend I decided to start my second play through of DA:I. Gullible me expected that, 8 weeks after release, Origin would now update my game. Unfortunately that was not the case. So after creating my new elf toon and being really annoyed over the horrible proportions of my anorexic, big headed protagonist I decide to stalk the forums.

I like to browse forums, but normally don't participate in the shenanigans because  more often than not its just a bunch of malicious brats abusing the anonymity of the internet for personal attacks and insults. Plus English is not my first language, so it takes me forever to articulate my thoughts. It turns out MOST members are being very reasonable and civilized so I'll try and put in my two cents.

 

Sereani, feel free to use this if it helps.
 

 

First off I'm not one of those Consoles suck, PC Master Race blah blah blah Gamers. I just don't like using controllers (I suck at them) and enjoy playing mods. I understand that PC sales figures are lower than our consolero kin and it's good business to make your main target audience happy, but how in the world did the PC control concept pass QA?
Beta Tester: " Yes, I enjoyed the squishy, imprecise movement and the lack of auto attack combined with the awesome new feature of having to almost stand on top of the loot to pick it up is a huge improvement . I also like that you made the tactical view useless, it makes up for not implementing it in DA:O on consoles. Please consider reducing the zoom, no one needs it anyway. Tactics  and micro management are overrated, button mashing is much more fun. Good call on making the hold function not work. It makes quests that require it much more entertaining. For more convenience I recommend not making this game available on the popular Steam platform. PC Gamers will love this. It's definitely GOTY material"
For someone that claims to be a PC Gamer EA/Bioware shows pretty bad judgment, which is unfortunate because DA:I was a huge improvement over DA2 and has a lot of potential.   
 

Welcome to the Twilight Zone, Sanity is NOT included.

[Chaos17]

...as someone who actually works in software with these kinds of technologies, I can tell your that your sources have a less than perfect understanding of the situation, so you should take what they said with an enormous block of salt.

Will you say the same thing if your new car has problems ?

When you buy a car, you expect it to work and have all the options you paid for.

Why changing this behavior toward other products like video games then ?

[zeypher]

Yup infact i do not expect any dlc even, simple reason developing a dlc for 5 bloody systems is a suicidal move. Game did not break any of sale charts.

 

Broken SP, broken MP, old gen bitching due to game being ****, game is barely a rpg should advertise it as a adventure game with shitty action. Combat is too clunky to be proper action based and way to simple and clumsy to be tactical. 

[JackPoint]

Sorry for the misspellings.

Yeh, i kinda figured this would be the case, every kid in the world gets a console upgrade at xmas so why not abuse that fact. Which is why i posted late feb -march for any if at all pc workable patch.

[Invisible Man]

Welcome to the Twilight Zone, Sanity is NOT included.

I would have settled for batteries.

[Sivit]

Yeh, i kinda figured this would be the case, every kid in the world gets a console upgrade at xmas so why not abuse that fact. Which is why i posted late feb -march for any if at all pc workable patch.

Aside from the two command line arguments "-GameTime.MaxSimFps 60 -GameTime.ForceSimRate 60+", and "-ShaderSystem.ShaderQualityLevel" are there any other "fixes" I should be aware of.  
Random Fact: Reinstalling the game and then my graphics driver actually helped quite bit.

[Jadebaby]

So any word from BioWare yet?

 

I've been out of the loop the last two weeks...

 

 

They already started: DAI is not a financial success.

 

 

Prove it please..

[shushNMD]

Interesting comparison of side quests in D:OS and DA:I

 

Divinity

Upon entering a Luculla Forest you follow up on your main quest to find a White Witch only to discover that her hut is covered with impassible barrier. You then have a couple options to remove it: 2 of these are obvious and one is hidden one. (don't want to spoil it to anyone, so I won't tell what options are these). So after removing the barrier you finally can enter the hut only to discover that White Witch isn't here, but there's a portal mirror, that takes you to her secret grotto. Here you discover part of her diary in which she hints on a chest hidden somewhere safe. So here are 2 ways of discovering it:

 

1. If any of your characters have a Pet perk you can save a boar, located deeper in a grotto, then you can talk to him and he will sniff out a treasure for you (it's actually a mini game which makes it even more awesome)

2. One of your character have a high Perception stat and/or Light Step perk, but then you'd have to navigate through entire grotto poking here and there.

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition 

Upon entering Hinterlands and discovering Refugee Camp you meet a guy whose wife is sick with some sort of asthma(?), he then asks you to look up for his son, who have a knowledge of a medicine, but now hangs around some crazy new cult. So here is a way of solving it.

 

1. You follow upon a marker on your map. Talk to the aforementioned son. He gives you the medicine. Done.

 

This same example works for a lot of "quests" in DA:I, but I've used this one because this simple quest could have a better story and deeper quest line attached to it. Maybe we could have used the plants we collect to brew the medicine? Maybe this is a renegade son and we had to solve his issues first? 

Nope. Nothing of the sort. Inquifedex at it's finest. 

[Ashen Nedra]

So any word from BioWare yet?

 

I've been out of the loop the last two weeks...

 

 

 

 

Prove it please..

no, thank you.  Others already did.  Check the Web, Forbes, this thread. I'm tired of arguing. I was a die hard fan too you know. For 15 years or so.

[TobyJake]

.
8) As far as my "advisors" told me we shouldn't expect no huge fix especially in this month or in the next. Thats why Bioware locked itself up, they realize they are in deep trouble.

Thank you for taking the time to get this across! That explains a lot. DirectX is a windows thing. Originally designed to bring video memory under Windows control. To have to use console code piped thru an emulator to DirectX to PC does sound like a recipe for a disaster!! We have lots to look forward to I think.

[atlantico]

Thank you for taking the time to get this across! That explains a lot. DirectX is a windows thing. Originally designed to bring video memory under Windows control. To have to use console code piped thru an emulator to DirectX to PC does sound like a recipe for a disaster!! We have lots to look forward to I think.

Are you being sarcastic? Honest question.

[TobyJake]

Before this topic dies from it's own weight, I would like to say a heartfelt thanks and respect for all the contributors that have made this forum so engrossing!

The respect you guys have earned is enormous. @ShushNMD did a nice job of awarding achievements to all of you.

Whether we get a patch or not, it has been an absolute pleasure. Brogan, Bethgael, Ashen, DisturbedJim and everybody I have missed it has been an absolute pleasure to have met you.

Love to all

Bye for now. Will keep reading tho!

[TobyJake]

I was being serious. His post explained a lot for me. I remember playing games when you needed Dos4GW to run under windows, then DirectX came in. Followed by Consoles and all that stuff.

I did appreciate him telling all that especially as it is not his native language! Imagine if I was trying to do the same in German, heaven forbid!!

 

Ooops! I just read your post! I apologise! I will have do a bit more reading before I shoot my mouth off!

Thanks for the post tho