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#10576
Bakgrind

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Well, let's make the assumption that Bioware as a company is aware of how the DA2 controls worked.

 

Not so sure we can make the same assumption regarding the individuals who programmed DAI ...

 

What's really interesting is that the Keyboard & mouse scheme is different than the last two installments of Dragon Age. From what I see that the biggest difference between the controlling scheme from all three titles is that you could use the mouse button to point to an enemy, click on an enemy and the character would lock on and move to attack or click on an enemy select any skill to attack and the character would lock on and move to attack however far it had to in order to engage the target with the skill that was selected. Also you could right click select and execute  to loot,pick lock,pick pocket or harvest while using mouse only input. This is a huge missing game mechanic,feature, convenience that a lot of players got used to that is no longer in the game.I don't want to say that Bioware dumbed it down , but the controlling scheme in the previous games allowed for a more superior WASD and mouse controlling scheme.


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#10577
Sylveria_Relden

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snip to help keep screen real estate to minimum (not to detract from content)

 

I'd like your post, but the forum has cut me off for the evening. (apologies in advance!) but I'll definitely put this on the IOU tommorow list, k?


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#10578
Sartoz

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Snip

-------------

Yes, I could cave in and use a controller - but I'm not going to, because I shouldn't have to. Standards exist for a reason.

Yeah... I did not pre-order this game with the expectation that I also needed to dish out another 70$ for a console controller to play the game.



#10579
Brogan

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....................

So I plug in my XBOX controller and switch the interface from KBM to Joystick... And nothing responds.

It turns out that if you have ANY other device plugged into your PC that can be used as a game controller, DAI won't recognize the XBOX controller.

So, I had the remove my Logitech G13 *completely* from my system. Unplugging it wasn't enough. I had to purge it's entry from device manager as well.


So, now the XBOX controller now works... BUT, now the keyboard does not work at all in game. It's all or nothing.
................................

 

Seriously??  That is amazing.

 

That is amateur programming.  How did the people doing that part of the pc version get hired???



#10580
Jackal19851111

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I just don't get how people expect us to buy a controller just to play ONE "PC" game


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#10581
Sylveria_Relden

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Seriously??  That is amazing.

 

That is amateur programming.  How did the people doing that part of the pc version get hired???

 

That's why I said earlier, when I finally got the Xbox controller to work, I had to unplug all USB devices to do it.... I was like wow, effin amazing. It seems to be the only fix in most cases - for whatever reason. I also own a Logitech G13 and G510 and G500s... lots of money invested in peripherals, etc. for a game to be finicky.

 

But hey, there's no problem, right? :P



#10582
Sartoz

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 ...yet others could barely run 20 Nvidea top line cards.   

Perhaps this might shed some light.

 

http://forum.overclo... optimisation./



#10583
Sylveria_Relden

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Perhaps this might shed some light.

 

http://forum.overclo... optimisation./

 

Wow... I'm really hoping that's not what's going on here with DA:I...

 

Oh and as an aside, FYI do not run Game Experience or AMD Gaming Evolved while you have any game up- TSR programs almost always cause interference with running apps and compete for memory addresses, which complicates things even further.

 

It's also well known that Overlays don't like to play well with most games- I've even had to turn the Steam overlay off quite a few times because it would cause crashing etc. For Origin (even though you have to run the client to run DA:I) you can actually turn off the In-Game Interface as a test but don't really know how it would improve.


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#10584
Jackal19851111

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I'm curious btw, of the folks who insist that gamepads are superior input systems...

 

Me, I like the solid accuracy of the left hand combined with the fluidity of my right. For me mouse movement/accuracy is something that can't be matched with a controller especially with shooters. Hell we have auto aim on console games for a reason.

 

I've given controllers a shot, but no, nothing beats the KB+M for me, as it plays FPS/RPG/TBS/RTS all without issues. Still remember my younger years helping my friend out with a PC port of C&C on his playstation, was a serious pain trying to finish the mission for him using a gamepad. Hell if I was to buy a console, I'll want to hook up a KB+M with it. Tried playing Halo at a party using a gamepad too, no thanks.

 

However for flight sims or driving games; Joystick / Wheel are justified purchases. Gamepad for an RPG? Pffft

 

So me - buying a controller? :lol:


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#10585
Guest_Cyan Griffonclaw_*

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...
So, yeah, I'm pissed. The thing is I'm also fiercely loyal and I can take a lot of ****... But don't LIE to me. That's why I don't play SWTOR anymore. Even though it's "free" to play, that's not what I signed up for. I preordered that and PAYED to play. Not *two months* before they announced the FTP changeover the devs denied that would ever happen. I quit playing a couple of days after that announcement and still had two weeks left on my sub.

I can take all kinds of nonsense, but DO NOT LIE TO ME. I *will* stop paying for your products.  

Same here. When they went to cartel coins, guild members stopped playing. When it went to F2P, I left as well when I did the math to purchase stuff in the galactic market. I thought, "Wow. A paid 6-month subscription and they're still wanting me to pay for more stuff BECAUSE I NEED TO IN ORDER TO WIN?!? The missions became obscenely difficult without the paid-for gear against the stuff the best players can make for sale. Then the guild members left in troves and I couldn't justify to wife having to pay for a third half-year subscription. I caught myself buying cartel coins for gear and then regretting it a short time later. Now I log in now and then to purchase stuff with my collector's edition earns each month to buy just stuff. I won't play the game in it's current state (even with Revan), I couldn't enjoy it right now anyway because my old guildies aren't playing themselves.


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#10586
Peregrinus

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Wow... I'm really hoping that's not what's going on here with DA:I...

 

Oh and as an aside, FYI do not run Game Experience or AMD Gaming Evolved while you have any game up- TSR programs almost always cause interference with running apps and compete for memory addresses, which complicates things even further.

 

It's also well known that Overlays don't like to play well with most games- I've even had to turn the Steam overlay off quite a few times because it would cause crashing etc. For Origin (even though you have to run the client to run DA:I) you can actually turn off the In-Game Interface as a test but don't really know how it would improve.

I tihnk the problem with DAI mostly comes from Frostbite 3. Battlefield 4 had very similar growing pains. 


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#10587
Sartoz

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What's really interesting is that the Keyboard & mouse scheme is different than the last two installments of Dragon Age. From what I see that the biggest difference between the controlling scheme from all three titles is that you could use the mouse button to point to an enemy, click on an enemy and the character would lock on and move to attack or click on an enemy select any skill to attack and the character would lock on and move to attack however far it had to in order to engage the target with the skill that was selected. Also you could right click select and execute  to loot,pick lock,pick pocket or harvest while using mouse only input. This is a huge missing game mechanic,feature, convenience that a lot of players got used to that is no longer in the game.I don't want to say that Bioware dumbed it down , but the controlling scheme in the previous games allowed for a more superior WASD and mouse controlling scheme.

 That is correct. And, for some reason, it all went down the drain.

 

Perhaps the new generation of players are somewhat used to getting pablum. Bio noticed this and acted accordingly.... sigh.



#10588
Sylveria_Relden

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I'm curious btw, of the folks who insist that gamepads are superior input systems...

 

Me, I like the solid accuracy of the left hand combined with the fluidity of my right. For me mouse movement/accuracy is something that can't be matched with a controller especially with shooters. Hell we have auto aim on console games for a reason.

 

I can only speak for myself and my own experience- but my main issue with using controllers is the same as what you've said here- but also the viewing controls (right stick etc) feel really unnatural, in combination. Aiming is a PITA (hell I can aim MUCH quicker with a mouselook) on a controller, IMO. If it wasn't for Halo being tied to Xbox as an exclusive I seriously wouldn't even own one... (and I suck playing Halo but I love the story)



#10589
Sylveria_Relden

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Same here. When they went to cartel coins, guild members stopped playing. When it went to F2P, I left as well when I did the math to purchase stuff in the galactic market. I thought, "Wow. A paid 6-month subscription and they're still wanting me to pay for more stuff BECAUSE I NEED TO IN ORDER TO WIN?!? The missions became obscenely difficult without the paid-for gear against the stuff the best players can make for sale. Then the guild members left in troves and I couldn't justify to wife having to pay for a third half-year subscription. I caught myself buying cartel coins for gear and then regretting it a short time later. Now I log in now and then to purchase stuff with my collector's edition earns each month to buy just stuff. I won't play the game in it's current state (even with Revan), I couldn't enjoy it right now anyway because my old guildies aren't playing themselves.

 

Out of "likes" for today but IOU one. I had the SAME experience with SWTOR when it went F2P- and what really bugged the hell out of me was that I not only participated in Beta, I pre-ordered and also bought the deluxe version, then on top of that, had 50's of 4-5 classes, loads of cash and titles, etc. Then when I tried the F2P they wanted me to "buy it all back" with Cartel Coins in order to use what I had already previously earned as a subscriber. WTF????


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#10590
Jackal19851111

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Lol @ AJ

 

 

I can only speak for myself and my own experience- but my main issue with using controllers is the same as what you've said here- but also the viewing controls (right stick etc) feel really unnatural, in combination. Aiming is a PITA (hell I can aim MUCH quicker with a mouselook) on a controller, IMO. If it wasn't for Halo being tied to Xbox as an exclusive I seriously wouldn't even own one... (and I suck playing Halo but I love the story)

 

I don't even have Halo, only played with my console peasant buddies lol

Zero interest in a console, even if they make games exclusive - I just won't buy them!

 

Only games that I found work well with controllers are fighting games, but I've overkilled them when I was a kid, same with flight sims/driving games. Now it's all FPS/TPS/RTS/TBS/RPG for me. Only exception is Star Citizen because of how impressed I was with Freelancer and not enough good space sims.



#10591
Guest_Cyan Griffonclaw_*

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Seriously??  That is amazing.

 

That is amateur programming.  How did the people doing that part of the pc version get hired???

It's true. I have to remove my Razer Nostromo Gaming Pad to use the XBOX wireless controller. I just use the Gaming Pad because Inquisition feels just a FPS shooter (as it should because it was designed using FB3), but does it mean works great? HELL NO. I'm playing Awakening now and yeah, it's stable to keep popping in and out using ALT-TAB. Try that with Inquisiton and pray you saved before you did that. 



#10592
Guest_Cyan Griffonclaw_*

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Maker forgive me. My grammar is horrible. I need to read my posts over before actualling hitting the POST button.



#10593
Guest_Cyan Griffonclaw_*

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Argh. I did it again.



#10594
Sylveria_Relden

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Argh. I did it again.

LOL don't worry about it, we don't really have any grammar nazi's in this thread. (At least, I don't believe we do.)



#10595
Jackal19851111

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Based on AJ's video btw, if BF4 is so riddled with bugs, DICE may have their hands full, probably why Bioware is having problems trying to patch the smallest things too - like the walk toggle having to be pulled from patch 2.



#10596
Sartoz

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Wow... I'm really hoping that's not what's going on here with DA:I...

 

Oh and as an aside, FYI do not run Game Experience or AMD Gaming Evolved while you have any game up- TSR programs almost always cause interference with running apps and compete for memory addresses, which complicates things even further.

 

It's also well known that Overlays don't like to play well with most games- I've even had to turn the Steam overlay off quite a few times because it would cause crashing etc. For Origin (even though you have to run the client to run DA:I) you can actually turn off the In-Game Interface as a test but don't really know how it would improve.

yeah... AMD has, in the past, accused nVidia of cheating...

 

..http://archive.news....ing-64728.shtml



#10597
Guest_Cyan Griffonclaw_*

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Last night I logged into SWTOR to spend my allotment of cartel coins using my collector's edition version. I didn't even respec my character because I thought, "Why?" 

 

That had so much potential. I was crazy in love with it and then it went south. It's a shame, too. Bioware could have found itself a real home in Austin. I live in San Antonio and there is so much tech going into and around Austin that real estate is like Orange County expensive. Austin is pretty hip and I love the city even though, little by little, it's getting less and less weird. You'll have to be a local to understand my last statement, but Bioware could pull so much amazing talent out of that college town.
 



#10598
Sylveria_Relden

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Last night I logged into SWTOR to spend my allotment of cartel coins using my collector's edition version. I didn't even respec my character because I thought, "Why?" 

 

That had so much potential. I was crazy in love with it and then it went south. It's a shame, too. Bioware could have found itself a real home in Austin. I live in San Antonio and there is so much tech going into and around Austin that real estate is like Orange County expensive. Austin is pretty hip and I love the city even though, little by little, it's getting less and less weird. You'll have to be a local to understand my last statement, but Bioware could pull so much amazing talent out of that college town.
 

 

Although we're a bit "off-topic" (see the PC Players Group, an area we can actually discuss this more freely without fear of them locking this thread) I found myself in the same situation with SWTOR. I even seriously considered throwing down a subscription to "see what had changed" but after what it's become now with F2P I can't bring myself to hit the "buy" button. It's really not even about the cost- hell, I have enough discretionary income to throw away the 15 bucks a month... it's just that I'd likely log in, get bored and log out again quickly. I can think of better things to blow 15 bucks on, if I'm just going to "throw it away".

 

As with this game- it's not really even about the money itself- if I lose what I paid, I lose it- but more importantly it's the trust that's mainly the issue for me- I wasn't promised a console game ported to PC... (puts away the stick... flogged this horse too often as well)



#10599
Sartoz

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I tihnk the problem with DAI mostly comes from Frostbite 3. Battlefield 4 had very similar growing pains. 

Well, that was an eye opener!


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#10600
CRCError1970

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What's really interesting is that the Keyboard & mouse scheme is different than the last two installments of Dragon Age. From what I see that the biggest difference between the controlling scheme from all three titles is that you could use the mouse button to point to an enemy, click on an enemy and the character would lock on and move to attack or click on an enemy select any skill to attack and the character would lock on and move to attack however far it had to in order to engage the target with the skill that was selected. Also you could right click select and execute  to loot,pick lock,pick pocket or harvest while using mouse only input. This is a huge missing game mechanic,feature, convenience that a lot of players got used to that is no longer in the game.I don't want to say that Bioware dumbed it down , but the controlling scheme in the previous games allowed for a more superior WASD and mouse controlling scheme.

"Dumbing it down" is really just a catchphrase, though.

This is the inherent problem with developing a title for multiple platforms, isn't it? You almost *always* have to scale to the 'lowest common denominator" in order to keep development sane. If you fork your product too many times... well at a certain point you either have to employ more people to maintain more code, OR you have to limit features in the platforms with less power.

This have been seen a lot lately as we now have a lot of overlap in consoles right now. All three of the major players have at least two systems in concurrent support right now. Look at virtually every concurrently launched title that spans console generations, even within a specific hardware platform... You'll see that quite often the only real difference between a PS3/360 game and it's PS4/XBone counterpart is texture resolutions and display resolution. More rarely you'll see higher poly counts and better post processing effects, but the games usually aren't all that different in feature sets.

Now, this is all fine and dandy with the consoles... With the exception of Nintendo, the controllers for the consoles are *fundamentally* identical. Yes, there are esoteric form factor differences and a few minor technology changes, but they are otherwise the same. And you only have about 16-18 buttons and 4 axises to assign functions to.

PC gamers have it very different. We have such a wide selection of hardware to choose from with many different tiers of performance. And you would think that was harder to prepare for than it really is. But it really isn't. Most of the heavy lifting is done by drivers and API's. The remainder of that is usually textures and 3D models. Both textures and model are *very* easy to scale down and make different iterations of for lesser powered machines.

The real hurdle is the interface. Joypads are SO different from a mouse and keyboard that they require very different input methods. You remember the 16-18 buttons? The standard PC keyboard usually has 104 buttons. Gaming mice can add over 20 to that. That's a mouse... and it has more buttons than a joypad. For one hand.

Then you have the whole additional layer of things like custom DPI ranges, macro keys, monitor resolutions... the list is pretty exhaustive.

Does that make PC gaming better? From the PC player's perspective, yes. When a developer actually has the freedom of designing a game specifically for the PC, they don't have to cater to the lowest common denominator as much. They make their game, benchmark it and tell us you need "X, Y, and Z" to have what we consider acceptable performance from our title.

When it gets ported from a console... Well, that's already been done. The PC port gets stuck with only being able to bind about 15 functions... and since so many of those are already spoken for with regards to movement and menu selections... Not many are left for abilities and other interface needs. Usually the only benefits we get are higher texture resolution and support for higher monitor resolution. More rarely we'll get better post processing features and more audio channels.

On the PC... We don't have to select from a radial menu. The radial menu is almost never seen in PC only titles. If I want my map I press M. Select or set a waypoint? Click. Done. I want to see my character sheet? C. Inventory? I. Wash, rinse and repeat for the other keys leftover. I can have 10 abilities EASILY mapped to a key. No modifiers needed.  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0. 30 *with* a modifier. Done. With the joypad I can get what? About 8 *with* modifiers.

This is the CORE reasons many of the people in thread are here. The interface was *blatantly* designed for the console first because they HAD TO CATER TO THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR. The JOYPAD. The PC interface, while it was a nice gesture, was obviously tacked on after the console interface was nailed down. It suffers greatly from the limitations heaped on it by being the progeny of the console interface. The lack of being able to bind buttons to standard input devices at will is one of it's greatest downfalls.

I don't expect any regular console player to agree or even understand how OBVIOUS it is to a PC player that any given title was a console port. There have been times I've bought a game just because it looked fun... (And they usually are!) And known within moments of playing that it was a console port even if I had no knowledge of that fact prior. I don't expect them to understand how important the simple act of rebinding a button however you see fit is important. But to many PC players, that ability is a core expectation from the beginning. The DA:I team failed on that front. And in my book, the additional "by PC players for PC players" was just a slap in the face.


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