19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylveria_Relden]

I tihnk the problem with DAI mostly comes from Frostbite 3. Battlefield 4 had very similar growing pains. 

 

OMG I almost split my sides laughing... AJ definitely earned his moniker with this video. He's spot on though... just wow.

[Bethgael]

LOL don't worry about it, we don't really have any grammar nazi's in this thread. (At least, I don't believe we do.)

I've been very, very self controlled.

 

Nazis, btw. Beep beep argh apostrophes as plurals....




I can't find Brogan's post up there to requote--but in regards to whether the individuals who programmed kb&m knew about the previous schemes?

 

The very first thing any programmers should do before starting a new title in a franchise is play the ones currently in the franchise--on all platforms. Especially if they're new to the company. So, if they didn't know? Not an excuse, at all. Hence the reason one of my first replies way back when was to exhort Mr Darrah to go back and do a quick playthrough of the previous titles, because it was clear he didn't understand what the problem was.

And he, for one, should have, given he was actually around for previous titles.

[Jackal19851111]

Skyrim suffered from the same multi-platform problem as well, I bought a brand new PC for it, only to be confronted with a console interface, low res graphics and a 32-bit app limited to 2 GB ram. However the controls weren't borked, and then there were mods, SkyUI, LAA mods to make it use more ram (then patches), and hi-res texture mods / freeLC. The mods made the game great - eventually.

 

Granted, at least DAI didn't ship with dumbed down graphics, they just borked the controls so you can't even enjoy it!

DAI seems to be following a similar pattern akin to Skyrim, however unlike Skyrim - no modding. DAI Modders are doing the best they can with what they've got so far.

[voteDC]

I'd like your post, but the forum has cut me off for the evening. (apologies in advance!) but I'll definitely put this on the IOU tommorow list, k?

This forum has a Like limit?

Just how many times are you guy hitting that button?

 

I'm curious btw, of the folks who insist that gamepads are superior input systems...

 

I've given controllers a shot, but no, nothing beats the KB+M for me, 

And the second line has the answer to the first. Nothing beats the keyboard and mouse for you.

While the mouse allows an accuracy a controller can't match. An analogue stick provides a smoothness of movement that WASD* catch match.

Smoothness of movement can be incredibly important. The Batman Arkham games for example just feel so much better for me when I play them with a Xbox 360 controller. The whole combat system of those games is built around smoothness of movement of the central character.

In short. A controller is superior for some people in some games.

[Sylveria_Relden]

I've been very, very self controlled.

 

Nazis, btw. Beep beep argh apostrophes as plurals....




I can't find Brogan's post up there to requote--but in regards to whether the individuals who programmed kb&m knew about the previous schemes?

 

The very first thing any programmers should do before starting a new title in a franchise is play the ones currently in the franchise--on all platforms. Especially if they're new to the company. So, if they didn't know? Not an excuse, at all. Hence the reason one of my first replies way back when was to exhort Mr Darrah to go back and do a quick playthrough of the previous titles, because it was clear he didn't understand what the problem was.

And he, for one, should have, given he was actually around for previous titles.

 

IOU a like.

(I was seriously going to say "an" like to trigger your OCD, but decided against it )

[Sylveria_Relden]

This forum has a Like limit?

Just how many times are you guy hitting that button?

 

I honestly don't know- but, I tend to give credit where credit is due, so I'd imagine a lot.

 

(Am I not merciful??????????!!!!!!)

[CRCError1970]

I'm curious btw, of the folks who insist that gamepads are superior input systems...

 

Me, I like the solid accuracy of the left hand combined with the fluidity of my right. For me mouse movement/accuracy is something that can't be matched with a controller especially with shooters. Hell we have auto aim on console games for a reason.

 

I've given controllers a shot, but no, nothing beats the KB+M for me, as it plays FPS/RPG/TBS/RTS all without issues. Still remember my younger years helping my friend out with a PC port of C&C on his playstation, was a serious pain trying to finish the mission for him using a gamepad. Hell if I was to buy a console, I'll want to hook up a KB+M with it. Tried playing Halo at a party using a gamepad too, no thanks.

 

However for flight sims or driving games; Joystick / Wheel are justified purchases. Gamepad for an RPG? Pffft

 

So me - buying a controller?

Had you ever heard about "that one time" when Microsoft allowed cross-platform versus gameplay between the PC players and the XBOX 360?

Shadowrun (2007) - The PC players absolutely *DESTROYED* the 360 players. The disparity got so bad, they had to separate the platforms to give the 360 players a chance.

http://www.totalxbox...e-of-imbalance/

EDIT: Added a link to an article about this imbalance.

Modifié par CRCError, 19 janvier 2015 - 05:34 .

[Jackal19851111]

This forum has a Like limit?

Just how many times are you guy hitting that button?

 

And the second line has the answer to the first. Nothing beats the keyboard and mouse for you.

While the mouse allows an accuracy a controller can't match. An analogue stick provides a smoothness of movement that WASD* catch match.

Smoothness of movement can be incredibly important. The Batman Arkham games for example just feel so much better for me when I play them with a Xbox 360 controller. The whole combat system of those games is built around smoothness of movement of the central character.

In short. A controller is superior for some people in some games.

 

Guess so, I don't think I can sacrifice the accuracy of the mouse however - but that's just me. I also prefer the more solid/accurate movement too using KB, especially in action/adventure games with environmental puzzles.

 

But I have also seen people on youtube doing circles with fade step using a controller, I'm zigzagging by comparison.

[Jackal19851111]

Had you ever heard about "that one time" when Microsoft allowed cross-platform versus gameplay between the PC players and the XBOX 360?

Shadowrun (2007) - The PC players absolutely *DESTROYED* the 360 players. The disparity got so bad, they had to separate the platforms to give the 360 players a chance.

 

Haha well not surprised, it is FPS

[Sylveria_Relden]

But I have also seen people on youtube doing circles with fade step using a controller, I'm zigzagging by comparison.

 

THIS. Have you noticed there's no "strafe" but "turn right/left" replaced it?? When I used the controller I noticed I could do circles simply by rotating the stick... and I could even do fancy little slides back and forth (animation when you abruptly change direction) but yet on a keyboard... ugh.

[voteDC]

I honestly don't know- but, I tend to give credit where credit is due, so I'd imagine a lot.

 

(Am I not merciful??????????!!!!!!)

I consider myself a fairly frequent visitor to this forum but I really can't imagine the amount of times you would have to hit the like button before being blocked from doing so. I don't tend to hit 'like' for every post I agree with, rather I use it when I think the person has made an exceptional point.

 

Guess so, I don't think I can sacrifice the accuracy of the mouse however - but that's just me. I also prefer the more solid/accurate movement too using KB, especially in action/adventure games with environmental puzzles.

 

But I have also seen people on youtube doing circles with fade step using a controller, I'm zigzagging by comparison.

For me it really does depend on the game and to be honest if the game allows it, I can find myself switching between the two.

Best example would be Gears of War. General play I'll be using the controller but come a serious firefight I'll switch to the keyboard and mouse for the accuracy. The ability of that, near eight year old, game to switch between control schemes and UI prompts was amazing.

[Jackal19851111]

Well I've never used a controller in DAI so I can't feel the difference. What you mean by turn right/left replaced strafe? For me, turn right/left keys have been reassigned to my > and < keys (I only ever used them to rotate my character model in the PC UI - until patch 2 allowed the mouse for rotation)

 

Here's my attempts at "mastering" fade step using KB+M (From 1:10 onwards):

 

I overshot in one fade-step, and used a crate to stop my movement for a split second while changing direction in another. Is there a way to be better at it?

[Jackal19851111]

I consider myself a fairly frequent visitor to this forum but I really can't imagine the amount of times you would have to hit the like button before being blocked from doing so. I don't tend to hit 'like' for every post I agree with, rather I use it when I think the person has made an exceptional point.

 

For me it really does depend on the game and to be honest if the game allows it, I can find myself switching between the two.

Best example would be Gears of War. General play I'll be using the controller but come a serious firefight I'll switch to the keyboard and mouse for the accuracy. The ability of that, near eight year old, game to switch between control schemes and UI prompts was amazing.

Yes, the maker of the walking mod also mentioned that his main problem is that DAI can't allow for gamepad/keyboard controls at the same time.

 

But I'm selfishly thankful that he has a problem enough to make a walking mod for all of us PC players lol

[Sylveria_Relden]

Well I've never used a controller in DAI so I can't feel the difference. What you mean by turn right/left replaced strafe? For me, turn right/left keys have been reassigned to my > and < keys (I only ever used them to rotate my character model in the PC UI - until patch 2 allowed the mouse for rotation)

 

No, I said (and meant) that there's no strafe- and A/D turn left/right on the keyboard, so that WADS is meant to "circle" if you press them in sequence... (what we used to call in DAOC a "twist" if you were a Paladin you'd recognize this ) however, with a stick on the controller it works much better (key response time???) for some strange reason, as opposed to keyboard.

[CRCError1970]

The thing with a joypad is, you typically get character movement with the left stick, and aiming is done with the right... So if you move the left stick, you get more than just the standard WASD movement... If you bisect the angle between moving forward and moving right, you run in a clockwise circle. Then you have the granularity of being able to move the stick more toward forward motion, making a bigger circle, move more toward the right, the circle tightens. When you mix in the additional modification of movement that moving the *right* stick provides, you add yet another layer of mobility that the standard KBM controls have difficulty emulating. Circle-strafing.... Inverse Circle-strafing... Flanking maneuvers... While possible with a KBM, the analog sticks do it better.

Anyone remember old-school driving games on the PC... Without a steering wheel? Remember having to rhythmically tap your Steering, Brakes, and Accelerator to maintain proper turning radius and speed? Cause if you just held down your "go faster" key, it was the same as pedal fully to the floor. If you held down your turn right key, you were turning your steering to full lock every time your cornered. You had to find a rhythm to keep the digital ON/OFF control emulating an analog equivalent. 

This is one way that the joypad is indeed superior to keyboard movement. That extra granularity does give your character more mobility options. I'm using the XBOX pad on my PC, and I can walk or run just fine out of the box. No mods needed. In a game that emphasises mobility, it is usually superior.

But the joypad is also why we get nonsense like auto-aim and target switching. In MP it is far easier for me to just move the enemy I want to engage to center screen with my right stick and let autoaim hit them than it is to click with the mouse and engage. Targeted abilities with the joypad have some AI built into them. With the mouse, I have to select my Necromancer's Fear AOE, then click where I want it to go off... With the joypad, I press the assigned key and it automatically centers on the enemy I'm looking at... Then press A to activate it. Keeper barriers are similar, except they seem to be weighted heavily to center on the caster first, before jumping to an ally.

[CRCError1970]

Here's my attempts at "mastering" fade step using KB+M (From 1:10 onwards):

I'd love to capture some footage, but as of now the only tool I can use to capture with is that junky Raptr package AMD pushes on us... And I refuse to install it.

Because I'm running in Mantle... My go-to tool for recording (FRAPS) requires DirectX to function. And DX crashes my game every five minutes.

[Jackal19851111]

No, I said (and meant) that there's no strafe- and A/D turn left/right on the keyboard, so that WADS is meant to "circle" if you press them in sequence... (what we used to call in DAOC a "twist" if you were a Paladin you'd recognize this ) however, with a stick on the controller it works much better (key response time???) for some strange reason, as opposed to keyboard.

 

Well, all my attempts at using WSAD to circle fade-step ended up with doing squares/diamonds. Been trying to compensate using my mouse to change direction.

Not sure if its a key response problem, just 8 directions compared to unlimited using a controller. However you mentioned you can change directions adruptly using a controller?

[Jackal19851111]

I'd love to capture some footage, but as of now the only tool I can use to capture with is that junky Raptr package AMD pushes on us... And I refuse to install it.

Because I'm running in Mantle... My go-to tool for recording (FRAPS) requires DirectX to function. And DX crashes my game every five minutes.

 

I installed it and just turned it off for startup/killed the process/never used it

Didn't even know it had a video capture utility.

[Sylveria_Relden]

Well, all my attempts at using WSAD to circle fade-step ended up with doing squares/diamonds. Been trying to compensate using my mouse to change direction.

Not sure if its a key response problem, just 8 directions compared to unlimited using a controller. However you mentioned you can change directions adruptly using a controller?

Ya and that's what I was saying about the difference re: controller versus keyboard- and CRCError actually pointed out too:

 

"The thing with a joypad is, you typically get character movement with the left stick, and aiming is done with the right... So if you move the left stick, you get more than just the standard WASD movement... If you bisect the angle between moving forward and moving right, you run in a clockwise circle. Then you have the granularity of being able to move the stick more toward forward motion, making a bigger circle, move more toward the right, the circle tightens. When you mix in the additional modification of movement that moving the *right* stick provides, you add yet another layer of mobility that the standard KBM controls have difficulty emulating. Circle-strafing.... Inverse Circle-strafing... Flanking maneuvers... While possible with a KBM, the analog sticks do it better."

[Jackal19851111]

Now we just need an analog stick on the keyboard heh, wait, they do have them!

 

 

But nah, think I'm happy with my WSAD

[Sylveria_Relden]

Now we just need an analog stick on the keyboard heh, wait, they do have them!

 

But nah, think I'm happy with my WSAD

 

Just... wow. You know as much as I'd love the ability to use control sticks on my PC- I'd opt for the same functionality on my G13 before I got one of those.

(which I'm still trying to figure out why we can't enable stick functionality even though we have one)

[Jackal19851111]

Honestly I dont think I can even play with that heh, just me though, stick is too far away from my keys! Besides I like my solid movement, even if it means I can't fade-step like a badass.

[Peregrinus]

Had you ever heard about "that one time" when Microsoft allowed cross-platform versus gameplay between the PC players and the XBOX 360?

Shadowrun (2007) - The PC players absolutely *DESTROYED* the 360 players. The disparity got so bad, they had to separate the platforms to give the 360 players a chance.

http://www.totalxbox...e-of-imbalance/

EDIT: Added a link to an article about this imbalance.

Microsoft didn't do the Shadowrun universe any favors considering it's deep RPG roots but they shouldn't have given up so easily in integrating the multiplayer between Xbox gamers and PC gamers.  Yes, there is an unfair advantage to PC side but the console players would have adapted enough in time to make it a great time. Even games like Call of Duty and Battlefield would have benefitted from having this consolidated future imho.  

[Peregrinus]

Now we just need an analog stick on the keyboard heh, wait, they do have them!

 

 

But nah, think I'm happy with my WSAD

Is that monstrosity real?  lol 

[Jackal19851111]

I'm hoping they don't neglect the need to fix the PC controls + add more than 8 slots due to this "vision" for MP between PC and console players.

 

If they are so worried just restrict it to SP. Right now if we can just get a "swap" key to double the 8 slots (like in NWN or DOS) my 2H warrior can finally taunt! I had to sacrifice it for other abilities. Not so sure how mouse button rebinding / mouse look toggle would give KB+M players an advantage over gamepad users either.

 

Besides, I don't even play DAI MP.