19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Bethgael]

I consider myself a fairly frequent visitor to this forum but I really can't imagine the amount of times you would have to hit the like button before being blocked from doing so. I don't tend to hit 'like' for every post I agree with, rather I use it when I think the person has made an exceptional point.

 

I'm not sure how it works but I suspect it's partly cumulative. On the first day on posted on this topic I liked 5 posts and then couldn't do any more because "limit reached". I liked more than that on another day and could.

 

/avoids obvious joke about Bioware and inconsistency, because I'd rather be a unicorn than a troll.

[Ashen Nedra]

In other words, you couldn't find any examples.

 

And the few "candidates" you had were more sarcastic than "yelling", and since that doesn't really fit the characterization of what you wanted to complain about, you took the easy way out to avoid embarrassment.

 

 

 

psst ...  ^ that didn't work either.

Brogan, be gentle, I think Pdusen or sthg is in a dark place now.  He won't talk to us about it.  Come one, man, I insist, unload your chest.

 

Or maybe he's hitting on us?

[Peregrinus]

I'm not sure how it works but I suspect it's partly cumulative. On the first day on posted on this topic I liked 5 posts and then couldn't do any more because "limit reached". I liked more than that on another day and could.

 

/avoids obvious joke about Bioware and inconsistency, because I'd rather be a unicorn than a troll.

EA might want to consider raising the limit on likes though. You use them up quickly when  browsing through the "customization" forum with some really amazing inquisitor pictures. 

[Ashen Nedra]

I'm not sure how it works but I suspect it's partly cumulative. On the first day on posted on this topic I liked 5 posts and then couldn't do any more because "limit reached". I liked more than that on another day and could.

 

/avoids obvious joke about Bioware and inconsistency, because I'd rather be a unicorn than a troll.

 

 

Bethgael, would you like to be an admin/mod of the new group Sylveria created?  'Pc players' (not a place for flame wars)

 

We need the Light of the Australian Unicorn with us, come on.

[Jackal19851111]

I think this is the first time I've seen this thread so peaceful.

[CRCError1970]

 

The trolls are asleep... They have school in the morning.

[Ashen Nedra]

 

The trolls are asleep... They have school in the morning.

Sooooo  f**** true, sir

[CRCError1970]

Now we just need an analog stick on the keyboard heh, wait, they do have them!

 

 

But nah, think I'm happy with my WSAD

Haha, the Phantasy Star Online Keyboard/Controller for the Gamecube... I had a friend that had one of these way back... He was the very model of an "American Otaku!"

[elrofrost]

Beside the table war missions the design of the game (quest wise) is closer to Ubisoft mechanic.

See this post for more details : http://www.neogaf.co...6#post147123416

 

I'm just saying that style of questing has been already implement in SP game and gamers (who may never played an rpg?) were really happy to have "content" to do.

Glad to see we aren't the only ones discussing this. I would agree with the Ubisoft feel... but I'd say it's 1/3 Ubisoft and 2/3 Warcraft. Except for the lore, there is nothing in this game that would tell me it's DA.

 

And don't get me started on the mounts. That's pure MMO hook right there. 10 bucks a DLC will add collecting pets. I'll bet-cha.  Which reminds me, where the hell is my hound?

[elrofrost]

I have to admit, a 4:1 ratio of consoles vs PC really does tend to put a damper in the "hope meter", but I think I speak for many here when I say how they handle this situation will determine my "future business relationship" with EA/Bioware's products.

 

It should be pretty evident to most that 4:1 clearly shows what platform they focused mainly on in development, after all.

And you know I'm ok with this. If BW had come out and told us console first, PC maybe (depending on sales) I would've been ok. If i wanted to play the game that much, nothing stopping me from getting a PS4.

 

But  that's not what BW said, or implied. They were very clear about "PC game made by PC gamers". A better tag line would've been "PC game made my PC gamers who use a gamepad but would rather play on a console but are forced to make a showing on the PC".

 

Now honestly, tell my, why in hell would anyone use a gamepad on a PC? I could see if the game wasn't available on the console - but a game like DAI which is? Well, you know, I do know one good example: Skyrim. I know several console players who got a PC to play a modded Skyrim. And used a gamepad. Ok that I could understand. But DAI? The console version is better.. why torture yourself to play on a PC with a gamepad?

[Postem]

I will just leave this here

 

 

The second banner so far i just only found on my Brazilian account. Needed to log in thru my US server to see the US banner. For some dumb reason Origin doesnt allow me to use it in english.

 

Anyway, for those not versed on Portuguese, the second banner transcription is:

"The critics are loving it". - "maddening" - nerdlist.

 

I rest my case upon "critics".

[Postem]

I'm hoping they don't neglect the need to fix the PC controls + add more than 8 slots due to this "vision" for MP between PC and console players.

 

If they are so worried just restrict it to SP. Right now if we can just get a "swap" key to double the 8 slots (like in NWN or DOS) my 2H warrior can finally taunt! I had to sacrifice it for other abilities. Not so sure how mouse button rebinding / mouse look toggle would give KB+M players an advantage over gamepad users either.

 

Besides, I don't even play DAI MP.

 

I dont have any hope. When playing DA 1/2 i dont even needed to use hotkeys for slots, i just used mouse to click on bar while on tactical.

Anyway, we know their decision is the most correct; the keyboard and mouse, having more keys would only lead to much confusion, its hard to think on so many keys, we need simplification. If the game simplify things even further the better. I think DA4 will probably 4-5 keys, like "attack", "use potion" and "next scene".

 

Skyrim suffered from the same multi-platform problem as well, I bought a brand new PC for it, only to be confronted with a console interface, low res graphics and a 32-bit app limited to 2 GB ram. However the controls weren't borked, and then there were mods, SkyUI, LAA mods to make it use more ram (then patches), and hi-res texture mods / freeLC. The mods made the game great - eventually.

 

Granted, at least DAI didn't ship with dumbed down graphics, they just borked the controls so you can't even enjoy it!

DAI seems to be following a similar pattern akin to Skyrim, however unlike Skyrim - no modding. DAI Modders are doing the best they can with what they've got so far.

 

I dont remember well what number patch, buy Skyrim officially updated the executable to include Extended RAM usage.

Also there is SKSE, the extension programmable DLL, that is not officially supported, but actually allowed and well recognized. Also there is the construction kit. It features a lot of bugs, but its one of the best, in house modding tool.

While Skyrim might provide a simply experience on vanilla, and a more sad experience on consoles, Skyrim trully shines on mods, and i think this is also where Bethesda shines, it recognize the value of modding, and provide a easy way to build upon.

[Postem]

I just don't get how people expect us to buy a controller just to play ONE "PC" game

 

I refuse to buy a controller at all. There are ports that requires it as Dark Souls, but if there is a trend of people playing PC on controllers, Devs might come to the brilliant idea that controllers are on rise, and being lazy as hell would think, more and more "lets just port xbone controller settings and thats all".

 

Now speaking seriously, you dont need serious programming to make a different controller like KBAM to work well. Its true that some design decisions like menu navigation is primarily conceived based on controller navigation, but this dont make any harder to have a decent input on any setting. Look at recent Unity, while menu is done for controllers, you can play pretty confortable with KBAM. Same for Skyrim.

 

EA could do simply things like put a flag to allow mouse look without holding button. Let the customer decide.

It looks like no one bothered to play with KBAM, not programmers, not QA, nor critics. Im surprised they dont forgot any key mapping.

[Postem]

"Dumbing it down" is really just a catchphrase, though.

This is the inherent problem with developing a title for multiple platforms, isn't it? You almost *always* have to scale to the 'lowest common denominator" in order to keep development sane. If you fork your product too many times... well at a certain point you either have to employ more people to maintain more code, OR you have to limit features in the platforms with less power.

This have been seen a lot lately as we now have a lot of overlap in consoles right now. All three of the major players have at least two systems in concurrent support right now. Look at virtually every concurrently launched title that spans console generations, even within a specific hardware platform... You'll see that quite often the only real difference between a PS3/360 game and it's PS4/XBone counterpart is texture resolutions and display resolution. More rarely you'll see higher poly counts and better post processing effects, but the games usually aren't all that different in feature sets.

Now, this is all fine and dandy with the consoles... With the exception of Nintendo, the controllers for the consoles are *fundamentally* identical. Yes, there are esoteric form factor differences and a few minor technology changes, but they are otherwise the same. And you only have about 16-18 buttons and 4 axises to assign functions to.

PC gamers have it very different. We have such a wide selection of hardware to choose from with many different tiers of performance. And you would think that was harder to prepare for than it really is. But it really isn't. Most of the heavy lifting is done by drivers and API's. The remainder of that is usually textures and 3D models. Both textures and model are *very* easy to scale down and make different iterations of for lesser powered machines.

The real hurdle is the interface. Joypads are SO different from a mouse and keyboard that they require very different input methods. You remember the 16-18 buttons? The standard PC keyboard usually has 104 buttons. Gaming mice can add over 20 to that. That's a mouse... and it has more buttons than a joypad. For one hand.

Then you have the whole additional layer of things like custom DPI ranges, macro keys, monitor resolutions... the list is pretty exhaustive.

Does that make PC gaming better? From the PC player's perspective, yes. When a developer actually has the freedom of designing a game specifically for the PC, they don't have to cater to the lowest common denominator as much. They make their game, benchmark it and tell us you need "X, Y, and Z" to have what we consider acceptable performance from our title.

When it gets ported from a console... Well, that's already been done. The PC port gets stuck with only being able to bind about 15 functions... and since so many of those are already spoken for with regards to movement and menu selections... Not many are left for abilities and other interface needs. Usually the only benefits we get are higher texture resolution and support for higher monitor resolution. More rarely we'll get better post processing features and more audio channels.

On the PC... We don't have to select from a radial menu. The radial menu is almost never seen in PC only titles. If I want my map I press M. Select or set a waypoint? Click. Done. I want to see my character sheet? C. Inventory? I. Wash, rinse and repeat for the other keys leftover. I can have 10 abilities EASILY mapped to a key. No modifiers needed.  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0. 30 *with* a modifier. Done. With the joypad I can get what? About 8 *with* modifiers.

This is the CORE reasons many of the people in thread are here. The interface was *blatantly* designed for the console first because they HAD TO CATER TO THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR. The JOYPAD. The PC interface, while it was a nice gesture, was obviously tacked on after the console interface was nailed down. It suffers greatly from the limitations heaped on it by being the progeny of the console interface. The lack of being able to bind buttons to standard input devices at will is one of it's greatest downfalls.

I don't expect any regular console player to agree or even understand how OBVIOUS it is to a PC player that any given title was a console port. There have been times I've bought a game just because it looked fun... (And they usually are!) And known within moments of playing that it was a console port even if I had no knowledge of that fact prior. I don't expect them to understand how important the simple act of rebinding a button however you see fit is important. But to many PC players, that ability is a core expectation from the beginning. The DA:I team failed on that front. And in my book, the additional "by PC players for PC players" was just a slap in the face.

 

I personally dont care much about console interface as long as its usable. I know it a compromise that happens when multi plataform, but on majority of titles, the controls make some sense. Even Skyrim awkard menu works, bad but works.

AC used to have a radial menu. It worked. Unity have a nice touch, you can use keys to select weapons. They tested how a player would use.

The more i think about, i come only to the conclusion that EA just done PC KBAM controls on last minute, and just ordered it to be shipped.

[Brogan]

Postem, many of us came to that conclusion at 12:01 am Nov. 18th.

And yes, they did forget some key mapping, specifically to the mouse buttons. Both in letting you map what you prefer to Left/Right, and allowing mapping for side and scrollwheel buttons.

While if you loaded up AC:Unity without allowing any game updates to install right now (or installing any 3rd party or even mouse software), you'd have no trouble mapping any command you wanted to mouse 4, mouse 5, middle mouse, etc...

[Jackal19851111]

I dont remember well what number patch, buy Skyrim officially updated the executable to include Extended RAM usage.

Also there is SKSE, the extension programmable DLL, that is not officially supported, but actually allowed and well recognized. Also there is the construction kit. It features a lot of bugs, but its one of the best, in house modding tool.

While Skyrim might provide a simply experience on vanilla, and a more sad experience on consoles, Skyrim trully shines on mods, and i think this is also where Bethesda shines, it recognize the value of modding, and provide a easy way to build upon.

 

Yes, they did (hence I did mention the patch)

 

Bethesda has no risk of failure due to the modding community. On release Skyrim was shallow, ugly, and buggy. But I knew the game will get modded based on what I've seen from Morrowind and Oblivion. In fact, Morrowind was the first game where I've actually seen mounted horse archery in a game - it wasn't very good now in hindsight, but it was a first, and one hell of a mod using an engine that had never intended it. Those very same geniuses went on to mod Oblivion, then Skyrim. They grew and evolved.

 

DA2 cutting out mods ruined any possibility of the modding community to grow, and now DAI uses an engine that is supposedly unmoddable. And EA expects to rival Skyrim? Seriously? lol

 

While if you loaded up AC:Unity without allowing any game updates to install right now (or installing any 3rd party or even mouse software), you'd have no trouble mapping any command you wanted to mouse 4, mouse 5, middle mouse, etc...

 

So much for folks claiming that Ubisoft is doing a worse job at their console ports.

 

[zeypher]

If ubisoft is beating you at optimization, patch support you know you have royally screwed up.

[Brogan]

Also, I think it's important to make mention here of BF4 and the continual addressing of controls and functions by the dev team for this same Frostbite3 engine.

Clearly, that vid was for launch almost 2 years ago, and they have since fixed the majority of crashing. But they didn't stop there, not by a long shot. The update that came out before the 5th and final dlc allowed such a huge amount of UI and key mapping that they had to add multiple options screens in the key binding and game options sections just to encompass it all.

From the ability to set the on screen size of virtually every UI element, to the delay between functions like zooming and movement, to allowing you to resize, and reset the opaqueness of every on screen indicator. They allow you to play with literally any combination of on screen icon/info/text you wish. And much, much more.

I'm not bragging about BF4, I'm just explaining how versatile the engine is to developers. The point is, DAI is absolutely NOT being held back by the software...

[Fredvdp]

I had gotten used to DA:I's controls, and then I went back and played DA:O. It's night and day. I had forgotten how DA:O felt, but the gameplay is definitely much better than DA:I's.

I still don't understand why we can't have something simple as "hold tab to highlight". The search function in DA:I is annoying, even after the patch.

[Postem]

Also, I think it's important to make mention here of BF4 and the continual addressing of controls and functions by the dev team for this same Frostbite3 engine.

Clearly, that vid was for launch almost 2 years ago, and they have since fixed the majority of crashing. But they didn't stop there, not by a long shot. The update that came out before the 5th and final dlc allowed such a huge amount of UI and key mapping that they had to add multiple options screens in the key binding and game options sections just to encompass it all.

From the ability to set the on screen size of virtually every UI element, to the delay between functions like zooming and movement, to allowing you to resize, and reset the opaqueness of every on screen indicator. They allow you to play with literally any combination of on screen icon/info/text you wish. And much, much more.

I'm not bragging about BF4, I'm just explaining how versatile the engine is to developers. The point is, DAI is absolutely NOT being held back by the software...

 

Since i dont know underlying details about what extents the frostbite engine can do, and considering the already released games, frostbite seen to be basically a rendering engine (multi plataform), dealing with basic graphic render and physics emulation.Whatever game logic is done by the game app itself, who relies on Frostbite for rendering. Probably the engine could also manage waypoints, but this could be overridden.

 

Considering BF4 alone, the engine can do a good job, even considering modest hardware, in terms of visual rendering.

The thing is, for DA:I, there was the need to write the game logic for a new engine. While this would require effort, there was really no need to reinvent wheel; if they followed game logic from previous DA they could implement same mechanics, just with a different render engine, but what we see is a completely different kind of game. Its not a engine characteristic, its was a design decision to change how the game was, to a new MMO focus.

 

Frostbite might have a bit of it own problems, when i started playing BF4 it was plagued like hell with crashes but now i rarely get any.

I have 500+ hours into BF4, didnt get crashes for at least 6 months, until now, when i changed back to Nvidia. Anyway, i got just one crash, maybe its related to 980 gtx to drivers.

 

EDIT

 

One thing that is absolutely lovely in BF4 is the option to change colors to colorblind. Being one, i was constantly having issues to determine who was friendly and who was not, since red/green.

Modifié par Postem, 19 janvier 2015 - 12:08 .

[Black33]

I'd like to mention the fact that while using kb+m some controls aren't 'visible'. I used and Ocularium and a window appreared telling to press a certain key but the key was named as a variable, same for bottles and mosaic pieces and elven artifacts. What key I'm I supposed to press?

[zeypher]

THing is they touted that using same engine allows us to share development across teams. Why wasn't lessons learned and copied over from bf4? 

[Sartoz]

THing is they touted that using same engine allows us to share development across teams. Why wasn't lessons learned and copied over from bf4? 

Oooh.. good one!

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

They just need to play any action RPG that has swordplay in it; Skyrim especially since they wanted to emulate it so badly.
Have a feel of the sword play, then they should know what to do. We shouldn't have to spell it out for them if the devs are gamers themselves.

Skyrim's sword play isn't even that good, though there are mods for it - especially for timed blocking.

When it comes to DAI the talents for melee classes for blocking are great:
SnS: Shield wall - holding block will eat stamina each hit, you can't keep it up forever and turtle
2H: Block and Slash - holding block will eat stamina each second, so you have to use timing
DW Rogue: Parry - ALL timing, no holding

So the foundation is good, we just need block on the freakin right mouse button. POTENTIAL IS THERE

I didn't even know you could block.

[Black33]

I didn't even know you could block.

3 rules of living in the world of Dragon Age

1. Don't be a jerk

2. Don't touch that

3. Don't put that in your mouth

 

They're 4 actually.

 

4. Don't trust Mike Laidlaw.