19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Postem]

Regardless of their reasons, AAA developers are not the only ones in the market, especially when SC is at the forefront to change the whole business model of game development including many, MANY other successful developers who are on the rise, with honest, transparent, and respectful PR, with developers who admit their own mistakes, even after critical acclaim - such as Swen from Larian Studios after winning GOTY on PC with Divinity Original Sin.

 

I was actually quite curious how such bad PR could fly in the AAA gaming industry, as in my industry I've witnessed repeatedly how several competitors that have bad PR just go on sale. Those that succeed and continue to succeed in my industry are very heavy on our PR and social media management, especially as our customer reviews are tied to our online distribution channels. As such, going the EA route of either insulting our customers or ignoring them would be the same as committing financial suicide.

 

Speaking of being tied to distribution channels, it's important to note that Steam has customer reviews... while Origin doesn't. I guess that could explain in some measure how EA is getting away with it - if they are really. Still need the sales figures to come out after all. All this is very enlightening.

 

Come one, Origin is just a plain Joke, it exists sole for the reason to EA sell its games without having to cut shares.

I read somewhere that other studios publish tru Origin, but so far never heard of anyone using Origin for anything other that the games it forces us to use. Same for Uplay. At least UBI allow me to purchase via steam, that is what matters.

 

I really hate Origin, its horrible. I just use it because im forced. Go to the online store of Origin, basically you get just a few games, most of then crap broken games: DAI, Sims4, Simcity (the crap), titancrap. The only good or bearable are crysis and BF4.

 

Basically the rest of catalog are old EA titles, same of GOG, but these have DRM. The whole Origin catalog is a Joke. The name Origin, somehow linked to the defunct studio, is an insult.

 

Probably the best game on catalog is Ultima VII, but i prefer to use GOG. No money for EA.

[Postem]

Toxic forums? How could it not be toxic when Darrah or rather EA (?) decided to emulate Skyrim with DA3 but in the end it became a mix of Guild Wars 2 (Story missions and everything else is completionist grind) and WoW (Skyhold - dumber version of Garrison) in offline mode?

 

http://www.pcgamer.c...terview/#page-1

 

So do i get my third ban?

 

PC gamer is a joke

 

PC Gamer: I was surprised when I saw jumping actually, because I didn’t expect it. Was that a desire for more of an open world, exploratory feel? Partly in response to the runaway success of Skyrim?

 

 

Wow, that is really, wow, nice improvement from previous versions! So we can now Jump, that was unexpected. Its almost like skyrim.

[Glaso]

Except, no modding.

[Jackal19851111]

Agreed, I have only two games on Origin thanks to ME3 / DAI requiring it, hence I didn't even notice its (deliberate?) flaws as a distribution channel for games until now.

[Oryctolagus]

I was actually quite curious how such bad PR could fly in the AAA gaming industry, as in my industry I've witnessed repeatedly how several competitors that have bad PR just go on sale. Those that succeed and continue to succeed in my industry are very heavy on our PR and social media management, especially as our customer reviews are tied to our online distribution channels. As such, going the EA route of either insulting our customers or ignoring them would be the same as committing financial suicide.

 

I think it has to do with "leisure" vs "professional"; at least that's my theory.  Games don't run anything or have an infrastructure purpose.  If they suck, people just grumble and go to the next one.  If you can't do your job or it makes your job more aggravating, that's a much bigger issue.  See Sartoz' mainframe example.  I didn't realize how much networking played a part until I started working directly for the COO; when we want to do something the first thing she does is call her contacts at similar places and asks them how they feel about X vendor or X product.  I don't think I've ever even called a friend to see if they like a game or not; either we are both playing it or not.  And we grumble about EA and Ubi and others, but we made exceptions if we really, really like the IP.  Right now I don't plan to buy another BioWare game; does that translate to EA or am I going to give another "studio" a pass if I really like the IP?  ME4 is definitely out, the DAI release hype went too far for me with no apologies.  Hey, if they went too far and then apologized, I would have preordered because I'm pretty easy, even if they didn't really mean it.  At least then I'd think they were intelligent enough to pretend to care; these schmucks aren't even smart enough to pretend.  That's when you give up.

 

Bad PR in the gaming industry is only a problem until the next big release.  Too big to fail!  

[Jackal19851111]

It's a good theory, a sound one in fact. I'm inclined to believe it.

 

My industry is both leisure and professional, however I guess our market is much wider, with its roots in customer service.

[Sartoz]

Dear Amelia, et al,

 

Yes, we all know that these forums are all 'toxic'.  Here's a little heads-up for you breathing that rarefied air, as maybe its purity has made you a little lightheaded - most of us are understandably concerned about the many, many problems with DAI's PC performance, which has frankly been ludicrously poor, but the main concern, for me, at any rate is not that.  Eventually you people will be forced to fix it and I'm not some whiny 12 year old.  I have patience.  I can wait it out.  I have alternatives.

 

Also, I understand the idea behind marketing.  I get it.  This is the very way of advertising, as old as civilization:  the right god gets you to the right heaven.  The right leader takes you to glory.  Republicans Care.  Peace Through Superior Firepower.  Cologne will get you laid.  The right beer will get you laid.  The right car/truck will give you extra hairy testicles and get you laid.  Smoking used to be good for you (and will likely get you laid).  Giving your babies 7-UP was good for them.  Santa only drinks Coke. "It's so simple even a woman can use it!".  

 

Boobies can sell anything.

 

We get that, we mindless plebs in the great unwashed.  We have an understanding that exaggeration is the norm in advertising.  We're not being sold a product but a lifestyle, life-changing things. Capitalism is Good.  Consumerism is Better.  Advertisers have always considered us a little bit stupid.  They also know it's cheaper to print a flashier new box than change the product - or do people actually believe that oxygen in their soap cleans better?  Really? That extra-strength aspirin is merely slightly more active ingredient in the pill?  I've noticed chip bags and candy getting smaller and the prices going up.

 

What incenses me is not any of the above.  I actually expect all that.  It's annoying but not a big deal.  I have a mute button on my remote.  I can ignore packaging and buy what I know works.  I just cut out chips and candy because I don't need a stroke.

 

No, what incenses me - and many others - is being lied to and then berated by the liars because we refuse to placidly accept it.  DAI is so obviously a console port that you'd have to be a blind cave rat not to know it.  The evidence that supports that contention is not only in the marketing surrounding the game, but in damn-near everything the devs subsequently say about it.  It's evident in the near-unplayability for many on the PC.  The fact it plays 'better' with a controller. On a PC.  The fact that DLC is going to consoles first.  The fact that patches break more than they fix.  "PC game by PC gamers for PC gamers"?  The devs and their shills looked us all straight in the eye and told big freakin' whoppers and figured we would just dumbly nod and thank them.

 

These forums are not 'toxic' because a few trolls make things bad.  These forums are 'toxic' to the devs because they get called on their nonsense and they don't have the guts to be honest.  Blaming us doesn't make your marketing lies any less lies although it might assuage your consciences a smidgen.  Spin-doctoring the nonsense and giving us half-assed fixes and excuses doesn't make your crap stink any less.  The sheer arrogance being employed by EA is unbelievable.  Shoddy, broken overpriced junk and fan-blaming because we refuse to either countenance it or bend over for you.

 

There's this thing, see - if you're in the room when your buddy kills a dude and you do nothing, legally you're as culpable.  Just because you don't tell a specific lie, yet reinforce it with the self-righteous spin?  That doesn't absolve you or anyone like you.  You're as culpable.  Supporting a lie makes you as guilty.  Blaming the victim of the lie makes you no better than the liar.

 

EA paints crap gold and then blame us for the stink.  Buying GOTY awards won't help you.  It's just not flying anymore. Y'all need new excuses and I'm sure you'll find them.  It's certainly easier and cheaper than giving us actual working product.

 

EDIT:  added a point about GOTY's.

I think it's wiser to detach the PR/marketing guys from the grunts (ie: developers). Worker bees are just that worker bees. Launch decision (game ready or not) is made by EA Exec(s). 

 

I honestly cannot blame the developers for an unfinished product....nor for design choices/cuts...when Mohammed comes down from the mountain, grunts do as their told.

 

Toxicity in the forum is a result of emotional outbursts and quite a few trolltype posts... these I've notice quite a few.

 

Pax East (I think) is coming up in March and I'm waiting for the ME4 forum to open up... I will be making my views pn PR BS known well in advance of ME4 game launch...

[MaxQuartiroli]

Soon all games will need a Windows certification. Or only be able to play on XBox.

 

 

 

Not until there will be indie companies

[atlantico]

Come one, Origin is just a plain Joke, it exists sole for the reason to EA sell its games without having to cut shares.

I read somewhere that other studios publish tru Origin, but so far never heard of anyone using Origin for anything other that the games it forces us to use. Same for Uplay. At least UBI allow me to purchase via steam, that is what matters.

 

I really hate Origin, its horrible. I just use it because im forced. Go to the online store of Origin, basically you get just a few games, most of then crap broken games: DAI, Sims4, Simcity (the crap), titancrap. The only good or bearable are crysis and BF4.

 

Basically the rest of catalog are old EA titles, same of GOG, but these have DRM. The whole Origin catalog is a Joke. The name Origin, somehow linked to the defunct studio, is an insult.

 

Probably the best game on catalog is Ultima VII, but i prefer to use GOG. No money for EA.

 

I prefer gog.com, simply the best online games retailer available. No question.

 

And I'm no fan of Origin, but it is definitely the best of the worst. Origin is light-weight, has customer service and refund policy and doesn't try to push dumb nonsense on you like a "collectible card game", social services, second rate video streaming like Steam for example. EA makes stupid decisions with regards to consumers on many occasions, but Origin isn't one of them. 

 

Origin is good for buying the latest EA games, that's it. It's a limited service, but not annoying unless one expects it to be a video-game supermarket, which it is not. And I appreciate the occasional free classic EA game they give away to Origin users. Gog.com or physical media for anything else for me. 

 

Steam is the worst service available. Uplay a close runner up - and even though you buy your Ubisoft games on Steam, you must use uPlay, so in the end to run e.g. Farcry 4 you have to run both Steam and uPlay just to run that one game. 

[Sartoz]

  And I appreciate the occasional free classic EA game they give away to Origin users.

 

LOL....

 

Except when there is a free game my internet cap more often that not prevents me from downloading the game...which is why I prefer games on CD media...

[Glaso]

 I will be making my views pn PR BS known well in advance of ME4 game launch...

 

Same here, they'd better cut the PR bullsh!t and let us in on this one, especially when it comes to the UI and PC controls.

[Harbinger1975]

You know.  I read Amelia's post.  And all I could do was shake my head.  They've taken offense that we do not accept their game as it is.  And being that we're being vocal about it, they have resorted to now turning on their customer base.  I swear, EA, you had BETTER get your people at Bioware in check, and FAST.  Just because we are voicing our displeasure and have CONSTANTLY told you what is wrong.  You wave us off and shoo us away like little kids.  No.  I will NOT accept that Bioware.  I PAID for this game.  WIth my money!  And if I have to, I WILL demand that money back for services NOT RENDERED and a UNSATISFACTORY PRODUCT.  No one, not one customer should have to pay for what you have put out.  This is unacceptable on all levels.  This is not toxicity or vitriol.  This is cold hard facts.  And if you want to bring character assassination in by calling someone who called you out on your bullshit as a villian and a liar, then I think you have ALOT more than just one person to do that to.  And trust me, I will have no issue taking this to a lawyer for slander.

[Jackal19851111]

Yep, and the AAA developers need to remember this as well. One of my favorite developers is Tripwire Interactive and one of my favorite games is Killing Floor. I bought the KF through steam, all of the games dlc to date, several t-shirts,stickers and even a boxed copy of the game. Because Tripwire has always been quick to fix issues, has great community relations and most of the money spent goes right back into developing new content for their games and their next big project. AAA developers and publishers should be doing everything they can to create loyalty in their fan base, not squandering what loyalty they had. Because Tripwire has gotten more money out of my wallet than Bioware/EA will ever get. When Killing Floor 2 comes out Tripwire will be getting even more and if Bioware/EA does not shape up, this will be the last game I ever buy from them. I swore off Ubisoft and Activation years ago and I'm pretty much ready to do the same with Bioware/EA.  

 

 

Aye, for me, I have already decided to do. All I see now is EA.

 

Learnt my lesson and moving on.

 

 

You know.  I read Amelia's post.  And all I could do was shake my head.  They've taken offense that we do not accept their game as it is.  And being that we're being vocal about it, they have resorted to now turning on their customer base.  I swear, EA, you had BETTER get your people at Bioware in check, and FAST.  Just because we are voicing our displeasure and have CONSTANTLY told you what is wrong.  You wave us off and shoo us away like little kids.  No.  I will NOT accept that Bioware.  I PAID for this game.  WIth my money!  And if I have to, I WILL demand that money back for services NOT RENDERED and a UNSATISFACTORY PRODUCT.  No one, not one customer should have to pay for what you have put out.  This is unacceptable on all levels.  This is not toxicity or vitriol.  This is cold hard facts.  And if you want to bring character assassination in by calling someone who called you out on your bullshit as a villian and a liar, then I think you have ALOT more than just one person to do that to.  And trust me, I will have no issue taking this to a lawyer for slander.

 

Me, I can't be bothered to take it that far, but it's interesting enough to share amongst all my circles which I have already done and continuing to do so.

 

Excellent and rather entertaining example of bad PR.

[azile0]

http://www.examiner....rst-to-xbox-one

 

For those who missed the Link, BioWare proves their "By PC gamers, for PC gamers" shtick is false. XBone is getting DLC first, proving that DA: I was built and bent over by consoles. And though nobody is surprised that DA: I will be a DLC ******, it's still disappointing. Will not buy, will not recommend to anybody unless there are radical changes.

 

Meanwhile my companions are still standing in ground AOE, my mages are still standing in melee range unless I micromanage them out, my game still crashes, cutscenes still are choppy and my shield tooltips are broken. GG BioWare, you really know how to make your games painfully average. 

[Glaso]

If only they could bother answering a few simple questions, it would calm down a lot of people:

 

- Who's the idiot who came up with the current PC UI and controls and why everyone thought it was acceptable to roll with it?

- Do you plan on implementing ANY changes to the current UI? (yes or no, simple question).

- Are we going to get an acceptable tac cam at some point (further zoom out, mouse controls, no second cursor, a free camera which is not being blocked by ceilings)?

- What the heck happened to those NPCs, doors, trees etc... why are they running at 30 fps?

- You knew about us wanting a storage chest, where is it?

- What happend to tactics, why have you dumbed them down so much?

- What are the current fixes being (or attempted to be) worked on? (i really don't get all the secrecy)

- Any time frame for the next big patch?

- Are you currently working on a DLC? (i don't care which one, but you'd better drop it and fix the damn game first)

- Why the heck are you so secretive?

 

I know, i can allways dream, the answer would probably be the same as the last time: "We're currently smurfing smurfs and i'll smurf back to you as smurf as grand smurf allows me to".

[Iakus]

http://www.examiner....rst-to-xbox-one

 

 

Heck that info's been out for months.  And yes I do find it sickening. 

[JackPoint]

I am very suspicious of this XBox/EA/Bioware deal for a DLC.

Have Bioware been pandering to MS all along?

Can't upset your benefactor!! XBox first, stuff PC.

MS doesn't like modders or people who can change things.

These are the people who gave us Windows in tablet format! LMFAO

Soon all games will need a Windows certification. Or only be able to play on XBox.

 

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Seems so, as once W 10 ships for free, you can cross platform from pc to xbox gamers. It s a win win situation for games such as Dai and me4

 

http://www.engadget....indows-10-xbox/

[Amplitudelol]

Same here, they'd better cut the PR bullsh!t and let us in on this one, especially when it comes to the UI and PC controls.

 

They will make a nice video showing off shiny scenes from the game and you will be told in it: ME4 is made by PC gamers for PC gamers. Then at release everyone will run to the stores and come back to bioware forums and start making the  forum toxic again but that time the toxicity will be about why mass effect 4 is a console port again. Then comes DA4...

[Jackal19851111]

Xbox exclusive / Marketing BS / all old news guys.

 

In case you missed it

 

Some very sneaky editing to make my posts fit your viewpoint! As always, context is key, and there's a lot of context missing around the things you've posted ( I recommend following @AndrastesTits on Twitter, by the way, she's hilarious ).

 

Honestly, this video is solid evidence that these forums don't really want dev interaction or communication. When I joined the forum it was because I saw cries for these very things, and I thought I would help. What I quickly realized, however, is that whenever someone sticks their neck out in the forum there are a thousand swords to fall on it regardless of the content of the post. There is this very confusing cognitive dissonance where it seems this community wants interaction and communication, but pushes back fiercely when they actually receive it. A number of users on the BSN turn this space into a hostile, inhospitable environment, and asking why the developers don't interact is strange - the answer is well known. I will say - There are a number of wonderful, helpful community members in these forums whom I really appreciate. Its unfortunate that the people who are behaving poorly get so much attention.

 

I'm honestly disappointed things went this way, with you especially Penguin. You so quickly turned from a hero into a villain. I'm sorry that you didn't get what you wanted from me. I'm happy that you're taking what seems like a much needed break. Its going to be a good year for MP, there's a lot of awesome stuff coming down the pipe, and if you decide to check in in a few months I know you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

Be Excellent to Eachother

 

Thanks,

Amelia

[Hurbster]

LOL....

 

Except when there is a free game my internet cap more often that not prevents me from downloading the game...which is why I prefer games on CD media...

That's some cap. The free stuff is  pretty small, download-wise.

[DavianBurke]

I know that anybody that signed a NDA agreement isn't allowed to say what platform they may have seen the game on in pre-release events, but it should have been telling that the PC game by PC gamers for PC gamers was only ever demonstrated at cons with an XBONE and controller and not the PC the game was "designed for." 

 

Of course, we could be forgiven for expecting the game to be as good on PC considering their prior releases were always great on PC as well. 

 

Basically, Bioware fucked up. Then they lied to cover it up sell the game anyways. Then they released it with too many bugs despite pushing the release date back. Then they released patches that made things worse. Then they decided that buying GOTY awards would ward off the hordes while they went on vacation. Then they come back with a lip service patch that also, unsurprisingly, breaks even more things. Then they come on here to tell us we're being too negative and harsh in our opinions. 

Just fix the ****** game. Clearly Q1 2015 is still "development cycle" for this game as your Christmas 2014 release target was forced on an incomplete version of the game. So finish the game and roll out the necessary patches. 

[atlantico]

LOL....

 

Except when there is a free game my internet cap more often that not prevents me from downloading the game...which is why I prefer games on CD media...

 

I actually agree completely on the physical media, I prefer all my games on physical media and in a box if available, and I'm willing to pay premium for that, and I do - but damn your data-cap must be frustratingly small, most of the games EA is giving away are 200-900MB. Some are 4GBs, like Battlefield 3 and Dead Space, but Theme Hospital, Sim City 2000, Crusader and such are reasonably tiny. 

 

Anyway, you can claim them even though you don't download them, and then if your internet data-cap ever improves, you can take advantage of that

 

Regardless, I appreciate the gesture EA is making with Origin and giveaways of their classics. It's a scheme to get us to use Origin and buy games on Origin, but... all I can say is: Well played EA.

[Jackal19851111]

Considering Bioware EA's spite when it comes to paying customers who are unhappy with their product, I wonder if you should even request that they patch the game.

[DavianBurke]

Also interesting to note that the only real info we get from Amelia is that MP will be getting better. Ohhhh, the one source of after purchase revenue has great things planned... since you already have your money from the initial purchase of the broken game why bother making it better, right? 

 

No editing here, just frustration at the clear priorities the studio has now. 

 

Unfortunately I can't even claim that this will cause me to not buy ME4 as my tiny vengeance for all this. ME3 already guaranteed I won't be bothering with any other title from BioWare... except DA:I. See, the first two DA's I liked enough that I thought "Well, at least the Dragon Age team doesn't **** it up." Sure, the 2nd had those terrible recycled maps... but unlike many that was the only thing I didn't like about it. I viewed DA:I as BioWare's salvation. 

At this point I just want my game fixed so I can finish it and get some closure on this. Hopefully HBC keeps churning out quality Shadowrun games and some other studio sees the opportunity in winning over the market from BioWare. I'd love to see what actual PC gamers that love RPG's and make RPG's for PC can do for real. 

Witcher 3... I can't wait.