19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Master]

Well if we are buying a console just because the controls for DA:I sucks for PC, Sony and M$ will be happy and it looks like they may have a hand in the lousy PC controls.

Note to note down I'm not buying any next gen console due to this as well as they are inferior to PC.

[jcmuki]

there should be company that champions the pc platform like M$ and Sony does for their platforms

 

ugh, wishful thinking

[ghostzodd]

I know this thread is mainly about what Bioware should fix, and can patch that will make the game playable.  But there are decisions they have made that have radically changed the whole concept of what an RPG was supposed to be.  Almost all player decisions have been removed, or minimized.  Players are no longer in control of such basic things as deciding the stat allocation of their characters.  The choices for character classes has been dropped to a few cookie cutter clones.  I know most of our comparisons of the "good old days of Bioware" talk about DAO, but we can go back even farther.  Bioware showed us how to make a great RPG with the Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights series.  Those games all offered at least a score of possible player classes, without even considering the choice of multi-classing.  We could build our characters from the ground up, and they truly were ours.

 

Now, our characters are just playing a part in a script, with barely an illusion of free choice while we play.  I am guessing that Bioware could make a great animated movie, because that is what they are presenting us with.  After all of the complaints after DA2, I thought the developers said they were going to return to the roots of the company, and make a great Role Playing Game.  Instead, they have gone in just the opposite direction. 

 

I am going to play through this game...maybe even twice.  Will certainly enjoy it more if they patch all the concerns for PCs that are patchable.  But I can already see, this game is not going to be replayed over and over like my old BW games.  And because of that, I don't believe I am getting the same value that I used to from BW games.  I got fooled into believing the hype that this was going to be a PC game, built by PC gamers.  Never again.  The next BW game I buy, will be at least 6 months after its release, when I can get it at reduced price, and most of the patches have been created.

 

 

I still think the game is fun though, However Bioware is not the same company they used to be
 

[Gwalchmai]

Well if we are buying a console just because the controls for DA:I sucks for PC, Sony and M$ will be happy and it looks like they may have a hand in the lousy PC controls.

Note to note down I'm not buying any next gen console due to this as well as they are inferior to PC.

Good man! (woman?) stick to your guns. I was actually already thinking about a PS4 before DAI came out. They are offering 2 free games with it (GTA-V, The Last of Us) this week and with DAI It might be cool. But, it would be a waste really as I always come back to my PC for gaming. The PS4 plays blue-rays for movies so it will still have some use, lol.

[Rann]

Any ETA on when this patch is coming? 

 

There's probably going to be no patch.  Sorry, folks, just gotta get that out there. 

 

I'm being hyperbolic, of course -- certainly, they'll fix the crashes and stuttering and speech sets and all of the other "functional" issues.  But we've got to stop kidding ourselves about the UI controls.  Redesigning the entire UI is a Big Deal, with big costs to implement correctly and verify.  We'll be very lucky to get some camera fixes.  We might possibly even get auto-attack, because of course NPCs not under the user's immediate control can do that anyway, and that codepath can probably be leveraged for the active character as well. 

 

But point-and-click movement, or point-and-click looting, is more complicated, even though it sounds simple.  It's not just a "patch."  The control paths for mouse-clicking are already doing something (even if it is only waving your sword pointlessly in the air), and the fact that the mouse buttons aren't already assignable means that (1) that functionality is likely hardcoded, possibly in multiple places, and (2) it's is not tied into whatever code differentiates fighting from moving.  For all I know, there are even assumptions built into the game around running, meaning implementing walking would be a pain-in-the butt to do (it certainly won't have been tested yet, you can be sure).  Changes in all of that sort of thing will involve real plumbing and lots of testing, and that costs money and resources not being spent for generating DLC and thus keeping the company in revenue. 

 

Now, imagine you are a high-level manager at the company.  You can spent the money/resources to make some set of PCs users happy (and let's not pretend we represent all PC users -- of course, we don't), with no monetary return, or you can make DLCs which are totally additive in functionality, requiring no architectural re-writes, which are nearly total profit, and which most console users and some proportion of PC users will buy.  Well, folks -- you do the math.  (The irony here is that I am a reasonably high-level manager at a rather well-known software company, and I'm all too aware of these sorts of tradeoffs, particularly the hard time finding that sweet spot between maximum customer enjoyment, designing something you can be proud of, all while paying the bills -- though I flatter myself that we at least do a better job in communicating to our customers than BioWare is doing for this particular issue.)

 

Worse, what if the conclusion is that the future belongs to console gaming, that the PC users complaining are likely to be older players who become less bankable for the franchise each year?  How many of us (and I'm just as guilty) have said in these posts "I've been buying BIoWare games for 15+ years, and don't know how they could have messed this up for us folks?"  I remember buying Baldur's Gate all those years ago and saying "Finally, there's a company that gets it."  (See?  I'm being all nostalgic again!)  I have visions of younger gamers enjoying DA:I on the console and saying "See?  There's a company that gets it."  And I will sadly drag my dinosaur tail in the dirt, back to my cave, and replay all of those old games I loved while being left behind on the new ones.

 

Sorry to be a wet blanket about this; the whole situation depresses me.  DA2 had gotten me down, but recently I'd let myself get pretty excited for this game.  I want to believe in this game, still; it looks like it could really be fun if only the UI was fixed.  But even as I wrote my knee-jerk response last Tuesday ("+1 on this BioWare, please fix these PC UI issues"), a little voice inside my head was already telling me that I should know better.

[Hristi]

My only gripe with this game are the clunky camera (tactical view sucks so bad) and lack of storage chest. Still my GOTY though.

Edit: Oh how did I forgot about the truly awful Tactics and the 8 ability slots. After playing DA:O, the tactics in this game just screams lazy devs.

[Jamesgirl]

 

 

Now, imagine you are a high-level manager at the company.  You can spent the money/resources to make some set of PCs users happy (and let's not pretend we represent all PC users -- 

Worse, what if the conclusion is that the future belongs to console gaming, that the PC users complaining are likely to be older players who become less bankable for the franchise each year?  How many of us (and I'm just as guilty) have said in these posts "I've been buying BIoWare games for 15+ years, and don't know how they could have messed this up for us folks?"  I remember buying Baldur's Gate all those years ago and saying "Finally, there's a company that gets it."  (See?  I'm being all nostalgic again!)  I have visions of younger gamers enjoying DA:I on the console and saying "See?  There's a company that gets it."  And I will sadly drag my dinosaur tail in the dirt, back to my cave, and replay all of those old games I loved while being left behind on the new ones.

I feel/think the same way.

[jcmuki]

 

Worse, what if the conclusion is that the future belongs to console gaming, that the PC users complaining are likely to be older players who become less bankable for the franchise each year?  How many of us (and I'm just as guilty) have said in these posts "I've been buying BIoWare games for 15+ years, and don't know how they could have messed this up for us folks?"  I remember buying Baldur's Gate all those years ago and saying "Finally, there's a company that gets it."  (See?  I'm being all nostalgic again!)  I have visions of younger gamers enjoying DA:I on the console and saying "See?  There's a company that gets it."  And I will sadly drag my dinosaur tail in the dirt, back to my cave, and replay all of those old games I loved while being left behind on the new ones.

its not completely over for pc, there is wasteland 2, the new torment game, witcher 3, and pillar of eternity which is only pc

so there still good pc rpgs coming out other than inquisition

 

i doubt pc rpg will ever go away, as long as there is a niche for it, some company will fill that niche; if not other AAA developer then indie developers will

 

so chine up

[Setzer]

If they allow us to bind mouse buttons to actions and make it so you can use the mouse to navigate in tactical mode, then I can live with the rest of it. Sure, it will still be clunky but I can make do.

[jcmuki]

Redesigning the entire UI is a Big Deal, with big costs to implement correctly and verify.  We'll be very lucky to get some camera fixes.  We might possibly even get auto-attack, because of course NPCs not under the user's immediate control can do that anyway, and that codepath can probably be leveraged for the active character as well. 

 

But point-and-click movement, or point-and-click looting, is more complicated, even though it sounds simple.  It's not just a "patch."  The control paths for mouse-clicking are already doing something (even if it is only waving your sword pointlessly in the air), and the fact that the mouse buttons aren't already assignable means that (1) that functionality is likely hardcoded, possibly in multiple places, and (2) it's is not tied into whatever code differentiates fighting from moving.  For all I know, there are even assumptions built into the game around running, meaning implementing walking would be a pain-in-the butt to do (it certainly won't have been tested yet, you can be sure).  Changes in all of that sort of thing will involve real plumbing and lots of testing, and that costs money and resources not being spent for generating DLC and thus keeping the company in revenue. 

 

 

lionhead studio manage to change their control scheme and ui setup for the pc edition fable anniversy, for example the original game didn't have mouse support in menu and had weird keybinding, but the overhauled their system implemented a lot of change which they didn't have to do but did because people complained

 

so its not a lost cause to believe bioware might to the same, there still that small that they may surprise everyone and make good on their promise

[Gwalchmai]

There's probably going to be no patch.  Sorry, folks, just gotta get that out there. 

 

I'm being hyperbolic, of course -- certainly, they'll fix the crashes and stuttering and speech sets and all of the other "functional" issues.  But we've got to stop kidding ourselves about the UI controls.  Redesigning the entire UI is a Big Deal, with big costs to implement correctly and verify.  We'll be very lucky to get some camera fixes.  We might possibly even get auto-attack, because of course NPCs not under the user's immediate control can do that anyway, and that codepath can probably be leveraged for the active character as well. 

 

But point-and-click movement, or point-and-click looting, is more complicated, even though it sounds simple.  It's not just a "patch."  The control paths for mouse-clicking are already doing something (even if it is only waving your sword pointlessly in the air), and the fact that the mouse buttons aren't already assignable means that (1) that functionality is likely hardcoded, possibly in multiple places, and (2) it's is not tied into whatever code differentiates fighting from moving.  For all I know, there are even assumptions built into the game around running, meaning implementing walking would be a pain-in-the butt to do (it certainly won't have been tested yet, you can be sure).  Changes in all of that sort of thing will involve real plumbing and lots of testing, and that costs money and resources not being spent for generating DLC and thus keeping the company in revenue. 

 

Now, imagine you are a high-level manager at the company.  You can spent the money/resources to make some set of PCs users happy (and let's not pretend we represent all PC users -- of course, we don't), with no monetary return, or you can make DLCs which are totally additive in functionality, requiring no architectural re-writes, which are nearly total profit, and which most console users and some proportion of PC users will buy.  Well, folks -- you do the math.  (The irony here is that I am a reasonably high-level manager at a rather well-known software company, and I'm all too aware of these sorts of tradeoffs, particularly the hard time finding that sweet spot between maximum customer enjoyment, designing something you can be proud of, all while paying the bills -- though I flatter myself that we at least do a better job in communicating to our customers than BioWare is doing for this particular issue.)

 

Worse, what if the conclusion is that the future belongs to console gaming, that the PC users complaining are likely to be older players who become less bankable for the franchise each year?  How many of us (and I'm just as guilty) have said in these posts "I've been buying BIoWare games for 15+ years, and don't know how they could have messed this up for us folks?"  I remember buying Baldur's Gate all those years ago and saying "Finally, there's a company that gets it."  (See?  I'm being all nostalgic again!)  I have visions of younger gamers enjoying DA:I on the console and saying "See?  There's a company that gets it."  And I will sadly drag my dinosaur tail in the dirt, back to my cave, and replay all of those old games I loved while being left behind on the new ones.

 

Sorry to be a wet blanket about this; the whole situation depresses me.  DA2 had gotten me down, but recently I'd let myself get pretty excited for this game.  I want to believe in this game, still; it looks like it could really be fun if only the UI was fixed.  But even as I wrote my knee-jerk response last Tuesday ("+1 on this BioWare, please fix these PC UI issues"), a little voice inside my head was already telling me that I should know better.

I am well aware what of PC gamers are up against and the money thats at stake. The PC version of DAI speaks volumes about where the future of gaming lies but not completly. There has been a resurgence in PC gaming in recent years and I think it is still a viable platform. But, I also know game companies have been hurt for a long time with piracy (and the headaches simply making/supporting a PC game) and would probably prefer us all on consoles. If they add auto-attack and tweak the game for perforamce issues (a given) then that would help alot. Maybe they will do more. Maybe its just wishful thinking but it's worth a little bit of my time to at least ask. We'll just have to see. It's good to hear from someone in the gaming industry, good post.

[Rann]

lionhead studio manage to change their control scheme and ui setup for the pc edition fable anniversy, for example the original game didn't have mouse support in menu and had weird keybinding, but the overhauled their system implemented a lot of change which they didn't have to do but did because people complained

 

so its not a lost cause to believe bioware might to the same, there still that small that they may surprise everyone and make good on their promise

 

I wish I had your optimism, jcmuki (and how could I not be cheered up by a kitten avatar? ).  What Lionhead did was "milking" -- in that case, they were aiming for additive revenue on a known asset that had otherwise exhausted its revenue stream, where the revenue magic happened because they could concentrate on the painpoints without having to worry much about original content or game mechanics. 

 

It's very similar to what BeamDog is doing for the BG/IWD franchise right now -- they can keep their costs down and revenue coming in by focusing almost totally on modernizing the UI and fixing bugs, while only generating very minimal original content (which, BTW, has to be kept very simple for fear of tipping the whole game over) because the main storyline and game mechanics are already well-baked and well-loved. 

 

In both cases, they can focus on the revenue point, and rely on some nostalgia to drive purchases.

 

With BioWare & DA:I it's different -- there is untapped new content revenue that they are likely depending on for their fiscal year (DLCs as well as general DA:I purchases to accompany the new PS4/Xbox One that Junior's family can finally afford this year), set against this low-profit request for rearchitecture.  (Heck, it might take an effort *like* BeamDog years later to fix DA:I up, for all I know... )

[Rann]

Maybe its just wishful thinking but it's worth a little bit of my time to at least ask. We'll just have to see. It's good to hear from someone in the gaming industry, good post.

 

(Ack, sorry!  I'm not in the gaming industry, didn't mean to imply that.  In fact, I'm in the industry that ultimately allows studios like BioWare to write these games -- I manage a set of compiler/language/debugger/IDE teams. Apologies for the confusion, and shame on me for being cryptic; I just have to be careful not to imply that I'm speaking for my company, especially when griping, so I tend to leave out the details unless they are directly pertinent.  And also apologies for off-topic response...)

 

And, by all means, we should keep asking BioWare.  That never hurts!  Even when my own customers give me "tough love," it's always important to listen to it and do what can be done to address it.

[jcmuki]

I wish I had your optimism, jcmuki (and how could I not be cheered up by a kitten avatar? ).

im actually not very optimistic, enfact im apathatic to the whole sitution now

but i still have small sliver of hope that bioware to do right by their customer

 

and if not then im just moving on from bioware

[Degs29]

...waiting for a patch which removes the searching and pinging to find items...

 

I've heard this complaint multiple times, and I don't get it.  Wouldn't the alternative be no help whatsover finding items in the wild?  Why would that be better?  Or is there some other workable alternative I'm just not aware of?

[Sysliana]

Well being able to press tab to see loot able items, clicking it and walking to it and looting it like in the other two games instead of having to continuously button mash over and over would be a start..

[jcmuki]

i just realized that the first patch for the game may actually come when the first dlc for the game is going to release so they can get people to buy the dlc

[HozzMidnight]

Anyone with the PC version that has the ability to go with a gamepad over the KB+Mouse, I recommend that you at least try that while we all wait for Bioware to grace us with a response on what they are doing and when they will do it.

 

As much as it pained me to do so, I did that today for the first time ever and the game is better.  Its also maddening because you can see how little time they spent making the KB+Mouse work well.  They basically did nothing other than remap gamepad sticks/pads/buttons to keys and mouse functions.  Nothing else.

Even the tac cam, which is still gimped with a ridiculously low zoom out max, is better with the gamepad.  The controls, and UI, is much more intuitive with the gamepad.

[Dakota Strider]

If they want to build a game that appeals just action-style games, that work best on consoles, I wish they would have the honesty to just tell us that is what they are marketing to, and the computer gamers are secondary, or lower on their priority list.  I am guessing many of us would not be so upset, if we bought the game, knowing that it was going to be lowering the standards of PC gaming, and aiming at the console crowd.  Some would not have bought the game, some would have waited.  But after being promised a PC game, where PC was the priority, we have the right to expect a top notch game, where the game functions on the PC just as well, if not better than the last few titles of the series. 

[Gwalchmai]

(Ack, sorry!  I'm not in the gaming industry, didn't mean to imply that.  In fact, I'm in the industry that ultimately allows studios like BioWare to write these games -- I manage a set of compiler/language/debugger/IDE teams. Apologies for the confusion, and shame on me for being cryptic; I just have to be careful not to imply that I'm speaking for my company, especially when griping, so I tend to leave out the details unless they are directly pertinent.  And also apologies for off-topic response...)

 

And, by all means, we should keep asking BioWare.  That never hurts!  Even when my own customers give me "tough love," it's always important to listen to it and do what can be done to address it.

No problem, you do have some insight though and your post was very informative. I just put the pieces together and concluded you worked in the game industry. I can understand about being cryptic to protect your livlihood. I worked (past tense, lol) with someone who got a little too critical about his employer on Facebook and was terminated. Thanks for the reply.

[Gwalchmai]

I've heard this complaint multiple times, and I don't get it.  Wouldn't the alternative be no help whatsover finding items in the wild?  Why would that be better?  Or is there some other workable alternative I'm just not aware of?

DA2 had an option to show everything of interest. It might be good in this game.

[DrMath]

If they want to build a game that appeals just action-style games, that work best on consoles, I wish they would have the honesty to just tell us that is what they are marketing to, and the computer gamers are secondary, or lower on their priority list.  I am guessing many of us would not be so upset, if we bought the game, knowing that it was going to be lowering the standards of PC gaming, and aiming at the console crowd.  Some would not have bought the game, some would have waited.  But after being promised a PC game, where PC was the priority, we have the right to expect a top notch game, where the game functions on the PC just as well, if not better than the last few titles of the series. 

 

I tend to agree, but if they told us that honestly then I imagine PC gamers would be asking for a lower price. If the game is not nearly as polished for PC as it is for console then PC gamers should not pay the same price since the game will not function well.

[endartol]

I cant understand how anyone could be accepting this situation, we were flat out LIED to, you should feel disgusted and outraged, and if you are - dont buy a single Bioware game again, refund DA:I, let people know this is a money grabbing shitty and careless port.

 

No PC gamer wants to support shitty ports, every single one of us becomes nauseous of disgust when he sees how pathetically greedy and utterly lazy devs can be when making PC version of a game, who the hell would want to support that kind of crap ? if it becomes clear to other PC gamers then none will bother with this.

[Han Master]

This is BS we PC gamers can sue bioware and EA for spreading such lies about building the game for PC where we know its made to be use for controllers.

[OneFortyFour]

Stop the presses; I know how to play this AAA masterpiece, steps below:

 

1. Stop calling the game Dragon Age, I have been calling it Age of Green Oblivion(Working Title);
2. Forget tactics or clicking, WSAD, F , M and J only, don’t stop to think, need to seize the day;
3. Hold in mouse button when fighting, don’t bother swapping between companions or even looking at the enemy you are fighting just WSAD to the nearest enemy and hold that mouse button down, for the love of everything good in this world make sure you do not click that mouse, this is not CRPG;
4. Use pause/”tactics”  to “heal” your companions  via health potions, do not try to do anything else, the tactics screen is purely there to remind us all, that Dragon Age: Origin once existed, you know for nostalgia, aah 2009 so long ago, memories;
5. Don’t bother with Inventory because seriously you need to be holding down that mouse button and WSAD, who the hell has time for inventory management, get to the damn action already or crafting;
6. Do not zoom out, that’s just silly, come on, who the hell plans there battles these days, action action and more action, just WSAD to it and hold down that mouse button;
7. Auto-fight, more like, autolazy ditto looting, walk to your loot, lazy bastard
8. Enjoy the world because it is beautiful, with dynamic psychics, full of lore and has sexy graphics, pffft combat, moving, character equipment, enjoyment and looting are all secondary;
9. When the game crashes, its fine because it just part of the experience

 

Disclaimer:

 

Above steps will make you feel soulless, somewhat feeling as if you have sold out, you may now feel like a console gamer.

 

Came across this official Bioware response to criticism(since removed):

"Developer" John Smith said:

"This game was always intended for the computer, see this video link https://www.youtube....h?v=G67IZB2O9kc  but you need to buy a controller to get the full PC experience because playing with a mouse and keyboard is so 2013, now go away; as we need to count all the money we have made from console sales because EA needs to know."