19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Sartoz]

@BIOWARE

 

Subject:  Control Devices

 

On the subject of gamepads vs Keyboards+mouse controls for Dragon Age Inquisition, I came across a more intelligent approach, from Star Citizen. An approach, I believe,  solves all of your future problems regarding input controls and silince the voices of dissent,

 

I will quote the following from Star Citizen:

 

"..Firstly let me state the goal for Star Citizen will be controller agnostic. No one control mechanism should have an advantage over the others.."

 

"..In our various studios there is a huge variety of controller use – some prefer mouse, some joystick, some HOTAS and some gamepad. This is the best guarantee that any one control mode will not dominate...."

 

"Having said this we recognize that the control input schemes need work in flexibility/customization to achieve this goal."

 

"One of our top priorities for Arena Commander is to allow users to customize their key bindings form inside the game..."

 

Now, @Bioware, if you absorb the above policiy, as Star Citizen is doing, all of your platform fans will greatly appreciate the wonderful controls you handed to them.

 

 

I thank you in advance for your consideration on how other game companies view and implement input controls and its inherent advantages.

[Raoni Luna]

People let's just consider what they did to the Wardens. Picture the Wardens as the old fans of Bioware. We are allied to the "Elder One" (reference to old Bioware), we are defeated and we can either ally to Inquisition or be exiled. Inquisition is so full of revelations *o*

[Dubya75]

Closed, cause no productive discussion is to be had wink wink nudge nudge

 

WOW! What a jerk response from EA there.

But it is true: EA's decision to force Frostbite 3 on Bioware will turn both Dragon Age and Mass Effect in little more than hack & slash shooter (pew pew) games. They should do themselves a favour and stop making themselves look foolish by calling their games "RPG". It isn't. All it is, is shiny and hollow.

[jcmuki]

WOW! What a jerk response from EA there.

But it is true: EA's decision to force Frostbite 3 on Bioware will turn both Dragon Age and Mass Effect in little more than hack & slash shooter (pew pew) games. They should do themselves a favour and stop making themselves look foolish by calling their games "RPG". It isn't. All it is, is shiny and hollow.

they just want to chase that cod/halo/skyrim money and by catering towards that audience they will loose their core audience and it will be too late for them

if bioware makes DA to be more like skyrim or an mmo then their goind to fail, if i wanted to play an mmo like game there will be better ones than DA or if i wanted to play a skyrim like game I would play skyrim not DA pretending to be skyrim

[dewayne31]

WOW! What a jerk response from EA there.

But it is true: EA's decision to force Frostbite 3 on Bioware will turn both Dragon Age and Mass Effect in little more than hack & slash shooter (pew pew) games. They should do themselves a favour and stop making themselves look foolish by calling their games "RPG". It isn't. All it is, is shiny and hollow.

would say yea they screwed bioware, but they everyone use frostbite 3. so far it not going to well.

[Brockololly]

This is apparently not true according to this:  http://www.frostbite...ostbite-engine/

 

I too am puzzled by their choice of Frostbite 3 as their engine since Battlefield 4 has been plagued by issues from release.  Was Frostbite 2 engine that much of a downgrade even with a strong art team? A game engine that actually works with bugs worked out already. ...  

 

If you believe this story, it seems like any EA studio basically has the choice of using Frostbite and other internal tech or they get their budget slashed.

 

The fact that they had to rebuild so many basic RPG systems for Frostbite kind of makes the choice of engine a bit odd. But I guess they think it'll pay off more down the road.

 

 

they just want to chase that cod/halo/skyrim money and by catering towards that audience they will loose their core audience and it will be too late for them

if bioware makes DA to be more like skyrim or an mmo then their goind to fail, if i wanted to play an mmo like game there will be better ones than DA or if i wanted to play a skyrim like game I would play skyrim not DA pretending to be skyrim

 

If BioWare wants that Skyrim money then they should release a damned toolset for PC and actually support modders.

[Black33]

Bioware's final design for the keyboard+mouse control scheme

 

[Dervim]

WHAT?! And give fans what they want?! Along with the way of fixing each and every major screw up by BW/EA?! Don't be ridiculous! What will they do, when some no-name modder will fix all their crap for them and will make the game playable on PC?! Then not only will those PC MASTER RACE elitists will enjoy the game, but BW/EA won't have any other excuses, either! PREPOSTEROUS!

[Shelled]

they just want to chase that cod/halo/skyrim money and by catering towards that audience they will loose their core audience and it will be too late for them

if bioware makes DA to be more like skyrim or an mmo then their goind to fail, if i wanted to play an mmo like game there will be better ones than DA or if i wanted to play a skyrim like game I would play skyrim not DA pretending to be skyrim

I would not mind some elements of skyrim being added to the dragon age origins formula. Like if dragon age origins was more open-world and a lot less linear or if you could continue finishing side-content after the main story, these would have been upgrades in my opinion.

But this game is nothing like skyrim at all. Skyrim is nothing like an mmo either. However dragon age inquisition is a carbon copy of mmo grind-design and that is a massive mistake when it comes to single player games, however inquisition wasn't originally intended to be a single player game in the first place and lot of people don't know that. Inquisition was intended to be a multiplayer focused game and then it likely got refurbished into what we have now. That's why everything about the single player just feels completely wrong in this game.

Skyrim doesn't try to be grindy. When you think about skyrims gameplay, it actually goes out of its way to make gameplay feel like natural progression and attempts to hide any sort of grind-like gameplay. Inquisition does the exact opposite of that. It goes out of its way to be grindy right in front of the player and doesn't even attempt to prevent disillusionment about the obvious mmo design. Powerpoints, the requisitions, rifts, shards, gather 60 herbs to upgrade X potion, enemy that respawn after 2 minutes and the list goes on and on.

The fact of the matter is that this game was supposed to be some kind of DRM enforced mutliplayer game, possibly an mmo or maybe something on a smaller scale with enforced drm, like diablo 3. Xbox was forced to change its DRM decision from consumers, so they probably completely altered this game halfway or more through its development cycle and maybe that wasn't the only factor of why they changed the formula either, but the fact is this wasn't supposed to be a single player game. The problem is they didn't have enough time to make it good enough for a single player focused game. It's probably why everything about it feels wrong. It feels like they only made it halfway to where it needed to be for a proper single player game, especially on the PC due to the u.i and controls, and just slapped the tactical mode on there to bait origin fans for the mistake that dragon age 2 was. The other problem with this is the issue where they (the devs) apparently thought the tactical mode was good enough, only it wasn't properly tested.

A lot of these classes are designed to be played in real time like an arcane warrior with spirit blade which makes a.i controlling an arcane warrior/ knight enchanter nearly impossible and it can't be maintained with a tactical mode because you can't sequence multiple commands. I mean you could do it by giving 1 command at a time but that's nuts, that amount of micro-managing would be way too insane. You can't both move and attack with a dual-dagger rogue with this tactical camera and it appears enemy a.i is aware they are being flanked (while taunted) which is a massive problem. There are a lot of little detailed problems like this regarding the games combat, the a.i, and the tactical mode. You can't issue sequenced commands, only 1 at a time. You can tell it wasn't integrated as an actual part of the intended design. I mean to me, its blatantly obvious it was slapped on at a later date and wasn't intentional from an original design. It just doesn't work unless you can issue multiple sequenced commands and the current tactical mode doesn't allow you to do that and there is no way to properly customize what your a.i team mates are doing in this dragon age version. Everything about it feels rushed and untested. It's impossibly hard to do anything with this tactical mode on top of the fact that its stuck to the world mesh and there isn't any proper tilt control. It's an absolute ridiculous frustration to use the damn thing compared to how amazing it functions in origins.

The complete lack of scripted side-content is also apparent. Take skyrims companion quest line, the brotherhoods, the mages, even little things like particular quests in towns. There is meaningful interaction in those quests with npc that actually engage you in ways other than simple dialogue. Inquisition does the opposite of that. It's basic crappy mmo design with dialogue interaction only with absolute boring results. The spells are all dumbed down as well...

In my view, this game is one giant massive problem down to its basic designs, its no wonder they can't fix anything properly with patches. I would not mind an open-world dragon age inquisition game with proper dragon age origins tactical mode/combat. This game isn't even open world either, they are just big walled off maps because they were all intended to be instances for multiplayer purposes.

I guess my degraded and almost lost point in all of this was that I would not mind if dragon age origins and skyrim combined their gameplay styles, if it was done properly with respect towards single player game design I would have looked forward to something like that which is why I pre-ordered this game in the first place because I thought this game was that lmao, boy was I wrong. Inquisition isn't it though, this game is just a failed drm console project that got a massive redesign halfway through it seems. According to the developers though we aren't game designers and aren't smart enough to figure something like this out. The sad part is the actual multiplayer (1 game mode) is terrible. lol.
 
Guess I proved them wrong, because I'm not a game designer, this all just seems really obvious to me. It's why the game is only a 5.8 on metacritic because all of this is blatantly obvious, even if people don't see the full picture they know something is wrong with this game on multiple levels. http://www.metacriti...on/user-reviews I just wish more people really knew what happened here.

[thebigbad1013]

Honestly, while I can understand that people are frustrated (the game is unplayable for me as well, has been for a while now) BioWare and EA gains nothing by "not caring" about patching the game so that it works. Yes, we have already given them our money, but if they get a reputation for releasing unplayable games you can be sure that is going to damage sales in the future.

 

I do agree that a message from the devs acknowledging these issues would certainly be welcome, but I refuse to believe that fixing the game is not a priority for them.

[Black33]

I do agree that a message from the devs acknowledging these issues would certainly be welcome, but I refuse to believe that fixing the game is not a priority for them.

 

Since the game's release no tweets from Mike about the controls, bugs or anything like that. His last tweet:

 

Mike Laidlaw ‏@Mike_Laidlaw 1 minHace 1 minuto

 

Playing Grim Fandango last night was surreal. Half-remembered puzzles and story led to some delightful nostalgia. "Oh YEAH! THAT PART!"

 

Yeah, he's certainly concerned as you can see.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gundar3]

 

Since the game's release no tweets from Mike about the controls, bugs or anything like that. His last tweet:

 

Mike Laidlaw ‏@Mike_Laidlaw 1 minHace 1 minuto

 

Playing Grim Fandango last night was surreal. Half-remembered puzzles and story led to some delightful nostalgia. "Oh YEAH! THAT PART!"

 

Yeah, he's certainly concerned as you can see.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He is allowed on his twitter account to not just be talking about DA all the time.  

 

That being said, its the silence on real issues that gets people mad.  Saying "we are looking into it"  doesn't do anything to alleviate a situation, unless the problem is actually fixed.  Either say something will be fixed, or its working as intended.  Will people be upset if its "working as intended"?  Ofcourse, but we will move on to other things.

 

This thread should have been placed in the feedback section of the forums.  Besides writers commenting on people gushing over the characters, its the only area of these forums where devs actively respond...  Occasionally by banning people that disagree with them, but at least its something.    

[Xyxlplic]

...However dragon age inquisition is a carbon copy of mmo grind-design...

 

 

...Inquisition was intended to be a multiplayer only game...

 

 

...That's why everything about the single player just feels completely wrong in this game...

No it isn't.

 

No it wasn't.

 

No it doesn't.

[Shelled]

No it isn't.

 

No it wasn't.

 

No it doesn't.

Ah, a biodefender. Good argument btw, and yes, it really was originally intended to be a multiplayer-only/focused, game.

Yes it is. 

Yes it was.

Yes it does.

Also yes I'm aware I just bit into blatantly obvious troll bait.

[Black33]

He is allowed on his twitter account to not just be talking about DA all the time. 

 

Of course he is. I was just trying to show that the game status isn't really concerning him. As you well said the silence is disheartening. All the streams, Q&As were just prior to release and a few days after. They said they were working on the pc controls and then nothing. Over 2 months after release the game still shows bugs, performance issues, technical problems... and there's nothing. They made the sales, now it's over.

[JackPoint]

No it isn't.

 

No it wasn't.

 

No it doesn't.

[TalsiStael]

I do not post here much, but the M&KB gameplay is unfortunately so unenjoyable, the I would just like to know if there is any hope of getting a patch to bring back at least minimal feel of DAO or DAII for combat and looting, to make it actually... fun?

 

The biggest single issue IMO is lack of basic mouse functionality of auto-targeting, and path-finding. Meaning: left-click ground, object or enemy, and the character will move and perform action.

 

I find it very annoying that I have to WASD after enemies while directing with mouse so that I am sure to run straight after them - should they step but half pace away - whacking attack button, as oppose to having a reasonable AI to actually follow through with an attack. Using skills was much better in the previous two games as well, when mouse was more meaningfully contributing to the gameplay input.

 

Also, auto-targeting loot would allow the option of disabling the looting animation that is hardly a value add to the game. Quite the contrary.

[TalsiStael]

Edit:

 

"Which specific parts of DAO/DA2 UI/controls?" by Allan Schumacher. Post #10 of this thread.

 

Was trying to reply to this, see if this works...

 

Oh, it does not. Not very handy with the quote functionality, sorry. And highlighting what I would want fixed the most, if only one thing can be improved.

 

Also disappointed that there is no option to sub-title all conversations. Plus: that a Dragon Age game requires a fixed difficulty setting selected at the start of the campaign that cannot be changed on the fly is also disappointing.

[Azarma]

 

Since the game's release no tweets from Mike about the controls, bugs or anything like that. His last tweet:

 

Mike Laidlaw ‏@Mike_Laidlaw 1 minHace 1 minuto

 

Playing Grim Fandango last night was surreal. Half-remembered puzzles and story led to some delightful nostalgia. "Oh YEAH! THAT PART!"

 

Yeah, he's certainly concerned as you can see.
 

 

 

at least he is enjoying a good game. i forgot that feeling. my tweet : playing Dragon age inquisition last night was cruel. half-made game. sore arms. button smashing torture. aaaand it crashed again

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Postem]

 

...However dragon age inquisition is a carbon copy of mmo grind-design...

 

 

...Inquisition was intended to be a multiplayer only game...

 

 

...That's why everything about the single player just feels completely wrong in this game...

 

 

No it isn't.

 

No it wasn't.

 

No it doesn't.

 

Dragon age 3 was indeed originally designed as MMO.

http://www.gamespot....y/1100-6423362/

 

From Darrah himself

"Weirdly, we actually had a project code-named Blackfoot which was the first game we had that was looking at Frostbite," Inquisition executive producer Mark Darrah told GamesIndustry International. "It was a Dragon Age game, multiplayer only, that was in development before Dragon Age II came out. That became the core of what became Dragon Age Inquisition, the techlines, more than any of the development, so we've actually been looking at [multiplayer] a long time."

 

Darrah went on to say that the multiplayer is actually at the heart of many role-playing experiences.

 

I will not paste the rest of the crap.

[Captain Wiseass]

"Multiplayer" is not the same as "MMO"; I recall seeing stuff about an aborted multiplayer DA game, and it was more like the multiplayer component of DA:I (four-player co-op similar to ME3's multiplayer) than an MMO.

 

And, of course, cannibalizing that project's work with Frostbite for Inquisition is hardly the same as Inquisition being originally designed as an MMO.

 

But hey, enjoy the view from up on that cross.

[atlantico]

"Multiplayer" is not the same as "MMO"; I recall seeing stuff about an aborted multiplayer DA game, and it was more like the multiplayer component of DA:I (four-player co-op similar to ME3's multiplayer) than an MMO.

 

And, of course, cannibalizing that project's work with Frostbite for Inquisition is hardly the same as Inquisition being originally designed as an MMO.

 

But hey, enjoy the view from up on that cross.

"Multiplayer only" is the same as MMO. 

[Postem]

 

this pre release video is pure gold. When you see the guy using the mouse and keyboard, and how responsive the game is, looks like its easy to use then to play. I was worried to purchase when i saw this video, and huh, it looks like controls are fine, and i purchased and it was bad.

[guanogatherer]

your post says it all for me, I fear. 

What a curiously missed / bodged opportunity for Bioware in producing such a strangely self-defeating frankenstein's monster of a game.

 

although only 'self-defeating' in terms of 'quality'* gameplay and content ... I guess if it's sold well, the guys that hold the purse-strings (and keep a lot of people in jobs) are happy enough.

 

(*from the perspective of a certain 'kind' of gamer, 'natch...)

 

 

I would not mind some elements of skyrim being added to the dragon age origins formula. Like if dragon age origins was more open-world and a lot less linear or if you could continue finishing side-content after the main story, these would have been upgrades in my opinion.

But this game is nothing like skyrim at all. Skyrim is nothing like an mmo either. However dragon age inquisition is a carbon copy of mmo grind-design and that is a massive mistake when it comes to single player games, however inquisition wasn't originally intended to be a single player game in the first place and lot of people don't know that. Inquisition was intended to be a multiplayer only game and then it likely got refurbished into what we have now. That's why everything about the single player just feels completely wrong in this game.

Skyrim doesn't try to be grindy. When you think about skyrims gameplay, it actually goes out of its way to make gameplay feel like natural progression and attempts to hide any sort of grind-like gameplay. Inquisition does the exact opposite of that. It goes out of its way to be grindy right in front of the player and doesn't even attempt to prevent disillusionment about the obvious mmo design. Powerpoints, the requisitions, rifts, shards, gather 60 herbs to upgrade X potion, enemy that respawn after 2 minutes and the list goes on and on.

The fact of the matter is that this game was supposed to be some kind of DRM enforced mutliplayer game, possibly an mmo or maybe something on a smaller scale with enforced drm, like diablo 3. Xbox was forced to change its DRM decision from consumers, so they probably completely altered this game halfway or more through its development cycle and maybe that wasn't the only factor of why they changed the formula either, but the fact is this wasn't supposed to be a single player game. The problem is they didn't have enough time to make it good enough for a single player focused game. It's probably why everything about it feels wrong. It feels like they only made it halfway to where it needed to be for a proper single player game, especially on the PC due to the u.i and controls, and just slapped the tactical mode on there to bait origin fans for the mistake that dragon age 2 was. The other problem with this is the issue where they (the devs) apparently thought the tactical mode was good enough, only it wasn't properly tested. A lot of these classes are designed to be played in real time, not with a tactical mode. You can't both move and attack with a dual-dagger rogue with this tactical camera and it appears enemy a.i is aware they are being flanked (while taunted) which is a massive problem. There are a lot of little detailed problems like this regarding the games combat, the a.i, and the tactical mode. You can't issue sequenced commands, only 1 at a time. You can tell it wasn't integrated as real part of the intended design. I mean to me, its blatantly obvious it was slapped on at a later date and wasn't intentional from an original design. If it WAS, then holyhell batman these people need to think about a career change.

The complete lack of scripted side-content is also apparent. Take skyrims companion quest line, the brotherhoods, the mages, even little things like particular quests in towns. There is meaningful interaction in those quests with npc that actually engage you in ways other than simple dialogue. Inquisition does the opposite of that. It's basic crappy mmo design with dialogue interaction only with absolute boring results. The spells are all dumbed down as well...

In my view, this game is one giant massive problem down to its basic designs, its no wonder they can't fix anything properly with patches. I would not mind an open-world dragon age inquisition game with proper dragon age origins tactical mode/combat. This game isn't even open world either, they are just big walled off maps because they were all intended to be instances for multiplayer purposes.

I guess my degraded and almost lost point in all of this was that I would not mind if dragon age origins and skyrim combined their gameplay styles, if it was done properly with respect towards single player game design I would have looked forward to something like that which is why I pre-ordered this game in the first place because I thought this game was that lmao, boy was I wrong. Inquisition isn't it though, this game is just a failed drm console project that got a massive redesign halfway through it seems. According to the developers though we aren't game designers and aren't smart enough to figure something like this out. 

Guess I proved them wrong, because I'm not a game designer, this all just seems really obvious to me. It's why the game is only a 5.8 on metacritic because all of this is blatantly obvious even if people don't see the full picture. http://www.metacriti...on/user-reviews