19127 réponses à ce sujet

[spacefiddle]

This in itself is a gigantic disappointment and speaks to how mmo's ruin everything (that's kinda tongue-in-cheek).  

 

Pre-edit:  sorry, I make a Russian novelist look like the soul of brevity.  To steal a line from Michner, "in three paragraphs I can't even say 'good morning,'" but if you want a quick tour of swtor and how it might surprise you, solider on.

 

TL;DR try swtor.  It's F2P now so no risk.  Something to do while waiting to see if the devs leave MP to pop over here .  Specifically, the Jedi Knight class storyline is KOTOR III (that is Bioware's statement), if you want to jump right into that.  Trust me.

 

---

 

Much like ESO, SWTOR is a single-player MMO. More so at launch.  Multiplayer endgame content was not only sparse, but badly broken, and that drove away a lot of early adopters that they would've kept, if they'd released it when it was ready, not based on holiday shopping.  Again.

 

You know how general wisdom says WoW's success was largely based on timing?  Well, by the time swtor launched, I knew a lot of wow burnouts.  Still do.  Many of them were looking for something else to play.  If they'd released 6 months or a year later, that still would have been the case.  

 

swtor had the timing opportunity, and blew it.  I brought an entire guild over from WoW.  A core group of around a dozen of us who'd been playing various games for 8-10 years, plus a couple dozen more.  I'm the last one left in the game.  The bugs, broken content, and above all sameness to core WoW gameplay drove everyone out.  A few hung around a while, for the sake of hanging out.  But here's the thing:

 

People who like WoW mechanics play wow.  People who are burned out on wow mechanics do not want to play wow mechanics.

 

/sigh

 

Where the BW team innovated, it was pretty awesome.  And (this is why I'm telling you this) the story mode is, overall, like their single-player stories, but even more so.  And it no longer has a sub requirement.  However, be warned: the F2P restrictions are pretty bad.  If the control scheme here annoys you, being forced into microtransactions for another action bar in an mmo may make you gag.

 

ALL THAT SAID,

 

Go try it.  I'm an active subber.  I dust off my guild HQ now and then and screw around with my 23432 alts.  The pvp there is a lot of fun; the BW team was actually shocked when they saw how popular the pvp was.  They drove it around and crashed into a few things over the last 3 years, but the dents are mostly repaired and the paint is shiiiiiny.

 

You can get some friends to F2P and jump in right now together.  You can also close the chat window and be in a blessedly silent single-player game, only on a vast scale no SP game currently matches.  And while there are a lot of the inevitable trolls that any F2P game brings, there are also a lot of very cool random strangers you will spontaneously group up with, or chat with, or observe with amusement for a while.

 

It has flaws, there will be things that annoy you. But overall, the swtor team has done an astounding job of correcting the most egregious issues, and in only 3 years.  Consider again that behemoth, wow.  Sans the pink eyewear, consider how even wow was doing in its third year, in terms of stability and content.  swtor has exceeded that.  If they're serious about committing to it and seeking growth, in two more years I think it will start pulling ahead on the strength of its own innovations.  Nothing will kill wow except Blizzard, but swtor doesn't really compete with wow, and it's finding its own playerbase.

 

edit: geez maybe BW should just make me my own subforum where i give long speeches about swtor.  I seem to have done that several times now.  In the context of how critical I've been about how communication and issues have been handled here in DAI, I hope you can see I wouldn't promote the game unless I meant it.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I know it isn't always the case but, from a tech side. IF the game truly did not run or even had a bug or glitch (which it has a few of) then EVERY SINGLE PERSON that owns the game would have the same exact problem. The problem would happen on ANY computer or console (depending on the version of the game) It doesn't need fixed by EA/Bioware because not everyone has the issue. Therefore it MUST be user related, hardware, software, system configuration, something the user, not EA/Bioware has control over or, it is attributable to specific GPU drivers or a specific BIOS. In any case that's up to the user to correct.

 

Now I know that isn't always the case, but often it is and, in my experience that's how EA sees things. If it works on some machines and not others of the same type (pc or console) then, it can't be the game, it has to be something else and, the user needs to find it. Hence if say 40% of us have an issue but 60% do not have it, odds are it won't be fixed by EA/Bioware.

 

Bottom line is money and, fixing things costs money so, unless they can reliably reproduce the problem, it probably won't be fixed. Unfortunately, it's just as difficult for them to give us a toolkit to mod this game properly. If they could get that for us, the community would do a lot of fixing for them. Just ask EA about The Sims 3. W/O mods and tools made by modders the game would inevitably be corrupted beyond saving, it would have been all but impossible to get a sim to the end of the longest lifespan. With mods and tools many kept the same game running with the same family for YEARS. Those games may have lasted a few months without the help of third party tools and/or mods.

 

If we could have that for DAI, we'd see a lot of things fixed or worked around sucessfully, have the tools to recover form minor save corruptions and so on w/o it costing EA/Bioware a dime beyond whatever cost might be involved in allowing us to truly mod the game to begin with. Possible worth the time and effort and, if need be cost to do so.

[Ashen Nedra]

Love this list.  Nothing would stop me from getting Witcher 3.  To give some kudos to the developer who funds this place, I have to say I wouldn't have even played the first one without the constant promotion of bio devs of the the first iteration of the witcher (a polish developer...really?), which struck me as selfless and cool.

 

Will pick up Shadowrun, have heard solid things about it, but your recommendation seals it.

 

Ditto with Divinity Origin.  

 

Am also looking forward to Bard's Tale 4; was profoundly disappointed by the taking the ****** iteration from the mid-aughts, but this is supposed to be a real successor.  Many thanks for the suggestions, Ashen! 

You're most welcome, dear Lannes. Should have joined the BSN waaaaay sooner. Seems it was a nicer place -not unlike the real world- methinks, back in the days.

[Ashen Nedra]

Love this list.  Nothing would stop me from getting Witcher 3.  To give some kudos to the developer who funds this place, I have to say I wouldn't have even played the first one without the constant promotion of bio devs of the the first iteration of the witcher (a polish developer...really?), which struck me as selfless and cool.

 

Will pick up Shadowrun, have heard solid things about it, but your recommendation seals it.

 

Ditto with Divinity Origin.  

 

Am also looking forward to Bard's Tale 4; was profoundly disappointed by the taking the ****** iteration from the mid-aughts, but this is supposed to be a real successor.  Many thanks for the suggestions, Ashen! 

how does the world turn...

[mutantspicy]

I recently purchase Divinity Original Sin as well,  Really great Classic RPG game system.  But my overall impression is it looks really cheap. The game play is pretty great though.  I really enjoyed Divintiy 2  the Dragon Knight saga as well.  

[DavianBurke]

I've seen a couple posts now touting SWTOR. 

 

I played swtor actively up until release day of DA:I. See, I used to play swtor in the past before it went F2P. Burned out for the same reason most did. Dusted it off exactly 60 days prior to released for DA:I, re-subbed (not worth playing unsubbed IMO) and had a blast. It has improved, solidly. Got into a guild quick, turns out they were all super positive and fun. 

 

Told them I'd be taking a month or so off when DA:I released. I even pre-purchased the new expansion. Haven't seen it upon release yet though. Sadly haven't been back since. 

Look, if you're one of the people whose DA:I experience was alright, go play swtor. It's much improved and very fun. 

If you're like many of us who have experienced game breaking bugs that render your game unplayable... don't you dare give EA the satisfaction or going to another one of their games. I refuse to play swtor because why would I hold to my principles when it comes to ME and DA but embrace their other flagship franchise? I won't play ANY BioWare game until they fix my Inquisitor and let me finish my game. 

And I'm not even one of you poor folks with crashes, graphics issues, or the other myriad problems that would have me scrambling for a refund. 

My voice just changed and they won't let me change it back. Don't care, not my Inquisitor, they can fix it with a console command but won't let us. Have to charge us for DLC that includes the mirror. 

[JackPoint]

Pre-edit:  sorry, I make a Russian novelist look like the soul of brevity.  To steal a line from Michner, "in three paragraphs I can't even say 'good morning,'" but if you want a quick tour of swtor and how it might surprise you, solider on.

 

TL;DR try swtor.  It's F2P now so no risk.  Something to do while waiting to see if the devs leave MP to pop over here .  Specifically, the Jedi Knight class storyline is KOTOR III (that is Bioware's statement), if you want to jump right into that.  Trust me.

 

---

 

Much like ESO, SWTOR is a single-player MMO. More so at launch.  Multiplayer endgame content was not only sparse, but badly broken, and that drove away a lot of early adopters that they would've kept, if they'd released it when it was ready, not based on holiday shopping.  Again.

 

You know how general wisdom says WoW's success was largely based on timing?  Well, by the time swtor launched, I knew a lot of wow burnouts.  Still do.  Many of them were looking for something else to play.  If they'd released 6 months or a year later, that still would have been the case.  

 

swtor had the timing opportunity, and blew it.  I brought an entire guild over from WoW.  A core group of around a dozen of us who'd been playing various games for 8-10 years, plus a couple dozen more.  I'm the last one left in the game.  The bugs, broken content, and above all sameness to core WoW gameplay drove everyone out.  A few hung around a while, for the sake of hanging out.  But here's the thing:

 

People who like WoW mechanics play wow.  People who are burned out on wow mechanics do not want to play wow mechanics.

 

/sigh

 

Where the BW team innovated, it was pretty awesome.  And (this is why I'm telling you this) the story mode is, overall, like their single-player stories, but even more so.  And it no longer has a sub requirement.  However, be warned: the F2P restrictions are pretty bad.  If the control scheme here annoys you, being forced into microtransactions for another action bar in an mmo may make you gag.

 

ALL THAT SAID,

 

Go try it.  I'm an active subber.  I dust off my guild HQ now and then and screw around with my 23432 alts.  The pvp there is a lot of fun; the BW team was actually shocked when they saw how popular the pvp was.  They drove it around and crashed into a few things over the last 3 years, but the dents are mostly repaired and the paint is shiiiiiny.

 

You can get some friends to F2P and jump in right now together.  You can also close the chat window and be in a blessedly silent single-player game, only on a vast scale no SP game currently matches.  And while there are a lot of the inevitable trolls that any F2P game brings, there are also a lot of very cool random strangers you will spontaneously group up with, or chat with, or observe with amusement for a while.

 

It has flaws, there will be things that annoy you. But overall, the swtor team has done an astounding job of correcting the most egregious issues, and in only 3 years.  Consider again that behemoth, wow.  Sans the pink eyewear, consider how even wow was doing in its third year, in terms of stability and content.  swtor has exceeded that.  If they're serious about committing to it and seeking growth, in two more years I think it will start pulling ahead on the strength of its own innovations.  Nothing will kill wow except Blizzard, but swtor doesn't really compete with wow, and it's finding its own playerbase.

 

edit: geez maybe BW should just make me my own subforum where i give long speeches about swtor.  I seem to have done that several times now.  In the context of how critical I've been about how communication and issues have been handled here in DAI, I hope you can see I wouldn't promote the game unless I meant it.

I too was a beta tester for swtor and subbed until they added the ftp content, the story was fun and mp was ok but i stopped playing a long time ago. My question is, as a preferred account holder would i get access to additional stories or would i be subject to pay to play concessions.?

 

 

ps:: have 6 L50s.

[spacefiddle]

I too was a beta tester for swtor and subbed until they added the ftp content, the story was fun and mp was ok but i stopped playing a long time ago. My question is, as a preferred account holder would i get access to additional stories or would i be subject to pay to play concessions.?

 

 

ps:: have 6 L50s.

 

50? Guess you stopped before the Hutt Cartel, which made the cap 55.  Cap is 60 now.

 

Your question is one of the reasons I suggest F2P to people to try it.  Hutt Cartel will be free for you, and therefore raise the cap to 55.  Shadow of Revan is the recent expac and costs errrr $20 or so, for everyone.  Other than that, the class stories themselves, sidequests available, etc., are not gated.  Just standard expac stuff.  F2P, preferred, or sub makes no difference there.

 

Preferred is a very mildly improved F2P.  Most of the insane restrictions are there.  Limits on how many pvp matches you can play per week, limits on how many operations.  Limits on how many UI bars you can have.... it's rather bizarre.  You would think converting people to sub from F2P would involve NOT making the F2P folks so frustrated with controls and UI and gated multiplayer content that they give up and leave.  Uh.  Hmm.  Looks like that's becoming a theme.  Oh well.

 

Aside from operations and pvp, you can do normal group content, and quest your brains out.  I'm pretty sure you can do hardmode flashpoints also, no restriction.  But you have a credit cap and can only send 2 companions out when crafting: annoyances.  It's weird.  

 

I already had a sub, also in Beta, CE, etc yadda.  I gave up and left for a while when it was a broken mess that every player I knew, RL or just on the server, was abandoning ship.  At the time, same party line:  everything's working fine.  You're not enjoying it correctly.  We have released an excellent, high-quality product.  Cancelled my sub.

 

After it went F2P, i logged in and was therefore Preferred.  Yyyyyyyeah.  It was kind of awful.  Basic controls and functionality and basic, basic quality of life stuff removed.  Like, you walk super slow at level 1, if you remember.  At level 10 you get sprint and no longer feel like committing suicide.  Well, everyone pointed out to them how bad that experience was for players, and they made Sprint just a perma-auto-skill everyone gets at level 1.

 

And then for F2P they made it level 10 again... somehow slogging at a snail's pace through large zones didn't entice people to come back or stay, for some reason...

 

Oh, and my credits were capped.  I had like, 350k out of the millions my toon had as a sub.  The rest just gone.  No explanation, no response from customer service when I asked what was up.  I logged out and uninstalled.  Development was stagnating, the cash shop had a ton of basic-model reskins, it was bad.

 

Over a year later, I was hearing that the ship was starting to right itself.  Preferred was slightly less restrictive, reduced from "insanity" to "kind of annoying."  Bugfixes, performance improvements to the terrible state the client was in at launch; looked like they were making a solid effort.  I resubbed to check it out.  So did a couple other folks I know.

 

But you know, if the F2P restrictions weren't so insane, they'd have had us back 14-16 months sooner, and very possibly as active subs all that time.

 

The TL;DR, tho, is there are too many details to list here.  Even for me .  F2P is a no-risk way to see if you like what they've done with the place.  I think F2P have Strongholds now too, so there's that.  And it turns out that credits over the restrictive cap are not lost, they are saved and can be accessed (expensively).  So you won't lose anything logging in to check it out.  Ultimately, it will come down to: are the restrictions so annoying they outweigh the improvements?  It's going to be extremely subjective.

 

Since that resub, I've had my account active for the better part of 2014, so it looks like they did enough to keep my interest again.

 

If you're ever on Ebon Hawk, maybe I'll see you!

[atlantico]

Sad to say AMD users are having some issues as well.  We get the flickering and the weird opaque fog sprites, as well as stuttering and performance issues.  Mantle is also kind of a sad joke.  There's been no driver release since Omega on 12/9; not even a new beta.

 

I'm playing with a dual HD7950 in crossfire, Omega drivers, Mantle, there's no opaque fog sprites, no stuttering or performance issues and never a CTD.

 

Damn solid, I'd say.

[spacefiddle]

I'm playing with a dual HD7950 in crossfire, Omega drivers, Mantle, there's no opaque fog sprites, no stuttering or performance issues and never a CTD.

 

Damn solid, I'd say.

 

Damn subjective, I'd say.  I have dual HD 7970s in crossfire, Omega drivers, have tried both D3D and Mantle.

 

But I'm glad it's working for you.  It would be nice it if worked for everyone.

[atlantico]

Damn subjective, I'd say.  I have dual HD 7970s in crossfire, Omega drivers, have tried both D3D and Mantle.

 

But I'm glad it's working for you.  It would be nice it if worked for everyone.

Yes, I'm also running Win 8.1, on an 8-core AMD FX chip. Otherwise we have a damn similar setup!

[Noelemahc]

 

So, kudos for showing up three months later. In the Multiplayer forums. It's warnings and stick-waving and 'golly gee, but if you weren't so mean we might be friends!', but hey, while it's a limited form of conditional engagement with many provisos, at least it's engagement.  It's the cop pulling his gun at a traffic stop, but he's still engaging with the public, isn't he?  The politicos stuff y'all into 'free speech zones', but they are engaging.

 

Be grateful.  Be very grateful.

 

The funniest bit is that there is now and ACTUAL ACTIVE DIALOGUE between the dev people and the gamers in the discussion thread devoted to that sticky. GO TALK TO THEM, before they run away!

[Glaso]

Might already be too late.

[Noelemahc]

Might already be too late.

In that case, go read their remarks on patch notes? There were many interesting takeaways from that thread, most of which can be boiled down to "they DO read the forums, but their communication-to-fans processes are as esoteric as always".

[CatatonicMan]

The funniest bit is that there is now and ACTUAL ACTIVE DIALOGUE between the dev people and the gamers in the discussion thread devoted to that sticky. GO TALK TO THEM, before they run away!

My question is: why did they put it in the multiplayer forum? Do we smell or something?

[Peregrinus]

My question is: why did they put it in the multiplayer forum? Do we smell or something?

 

I think the people here were too "salty" for their taste is basically what it comes down to. 

[MisterMannIndy]

I think the people here were too "salty" for their taste is basically what it comes down to. 

Nah .... it's because they see MP as a cash cow.  They are going to micro-transaction that group to death and therefore need to appear "caring" to that group.  We are the unwashed, dirty minority who's demands are simply "too difficult".  And all we are asking for is what they told us we were getting to begin with .... imagine that!  Wow, we are certainly a "difficult" group aren't we?

[IGedit]

I think the people here were too "salty" for their taste is basically what it comes down to. 

 

I think it's probably because the UI, auto-attack, tac-cam issues, etc. are not "bugs". It appears obvious to me that this game was designed to be played with a controller in hand, sitting on a couch 8 feet away from a TV screen. Unfortunately, I fear that is never going to change.

[Tinolyn]

I know it isn't always the case but, from a tech side. IF the game truly did not run or even had a bug or glitch (which it has a few of) then EVERY SINGLE PERSON that owns the game would have the same exact problem. The problem would happen on ANY computer or console (depending on the version of the game) It doesn't need fixed by EA/Bioware because not everyone has the issue. Therefore it MUST be user related, hardware, software, system configuration, something the user, not EA/Bioware has control over or, it is attributable to specific GPU drivers or a specific BIOS. In any case that's up to the user to correct.

 

The reason PC games are so hard to make is because of the wide variety of hardware and software out there, and many different configurations – something that does not show up on consoles, which is why the console market is both lucrative and easy to work with.

 

Your claim of "if there was a problem with the game it would show up on every computer" is flawed. Finding bugs or glitches across platforms – those are no brainers if it is a broken quest or animation issue.

 

However, that being said, people do expect to buy a game and have it work. If your computer meets the minimum requirements – or even recommended – or even SURPASSES them by a wide margin, you expect the game to start, to run...in short, to be able to play it. It is perfectly understandable for someone to be angry when their system does, in fact, meet or exceed requirements and yet they cannot get it to start, or play for more than five minutes without crashing.

 

Further, EA/Bioware accepted this basic stance by making the game for PC to begin with. If they did not want to deal with the hassle of making a game work with the wide variety of hardware out there available to PC gamers, they should have just not made it a PC game.

[Sylveria_Relden]

 EA/Bioware accepted this basic stance by making the game for PC to begin with. If they did not want to deal with the hassle of making a game work with the wide variety of hardware out there available to PC gamers, they should have just not made it a PC game.

 

Truth. This is what the entirety of this 485+ page thread boils down to.

[Hexoduen]

Still waiting for Bioware to fix

• keyboard and mouse controls
• user interface for PC

[Gerula81]

Truth. This is what the entirety of this 485+ page thread boils down to.

 

This game was marketed and sold as a game made by PC gamers for PC gamers, the issues of this game are more than just oops! they're in the realm of false advertising and cheating their customers.

[MisterMannIndy]

I think it's probably because the UI, auto-attack, tac-cam issues, etc. are not "bugs". It appears obvious to me that this game was designed to be played with a controller in hand, sitting on a couch 8 feet away from a TV screen. Unfortunately, I fear that is never going to change.

I share those same feelings.  The game "works as designed".  If we don't like their design choices, tough!  

 

I always say, "No answer, is an answer"

 

.... in this case the answer is a Big F.O. to those desiring an acceptable PC Interface.  

[Captain Wiseass]

 If we don't like their design choices, tough!  

 

When has this ever not been the case in gaming? Or anything else for that matter? If you don't like the way a novel is written, the author isn't going to go back, rewrite it, and rerelease it just to make you happy. George Lucas sure as **** didn't remake the Star Wars prequels, no matter how many people complained.

 

You pays your money and you takes your chances. If you don't like the product they put out, that's fair, but if you think you're entitled to anything else, you're dreaming.

[CatatonicMan]

You pays your money and you takes your chances. If you don't like the product they put out, that's fair, but if you think you're entitled to anything else, you're dreaming.

You are, in fact, entitled to a working product. That's what you paid money for, after all.

Of course, "working" is a rather ill-defined term, which is where most of the conflict arises.