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[Jackal19851111]

- Double post -

[Jackal19851111]

...

 

To those who think Bioware is dead:

 

It's not. It's learning to live under the EA underbrella. We all know EA. We know EA through their antics and past dealings with other developers. We also know Bioware. Bioware is adapting and by that I mean, it's adapting to EA's directives to make money. Their reputation as being "PC games for PC gamers" is not representative to Bioware at all right now. They're diving into an engine that EA has mandated (Frostbite is very complex!) and they still need time to understand how all the dependencies work. The simple fact that they can't work beyond a mouse manufactured beyond 1972 (that's when I was born and three-button mice were first made. Wiki that, Jack.) clearly shows that they focused on consoles first.

 

...

 

Well... back to Skyhold. I have a storage container that I'm trying to fill.

 

 

Bioware still maintained its reputation quite well while Ray and Greg were still in Bioware, I wonder if their very presence kept the money pinchers at bay considering what's happening now, as if EA is exercising more control over the studio or some such - that's the impression I'm getting anyway. Hell I simply wish they go indie but then EA owns the [...] IP.

 

Anyway, I trust your word, I'll stop using "Bioware" instead of Bioware when referencing the studio.

Modifié par BioWareMod02, 23 février 2015 - 01:26 .
Edited to remove inappropriate language

[Dubya75]

Patch 5 is not addressing the mouse issues (point-to-move and rebinding mouse keys) and is currently working on the zoom levels of the tactical camera.

 

Everyone:

 

this patch is just another small step to making it a PC game. This game was never ready for PC release. It was released as a semi-working port from a console-centered product. IT IS NOT READY. IT WASN'T READY FOR PC RELEASE. The amount of bugs and fixes needed to play the game on any PC (low-end, mid-range or high-end) clearly shows it wasn't ready. This isn't even up to debate.

 

To those who think Bioware is dead:

 

It's not. It's learning to live under the EA underbrella. We all know EA. We know EA through their antics and past dealings with other developers. We also know Bioware. Bioware is adapting and by that I mean, it's adapting to EA's directives to make money. Their reputation as being "PC games for PC gamers" is not representative to Bioware at all right now. They're diving into an engine that EA has mandated (Frostbite is very complex!) and they still need time to understand how all the dependencies work. The simple fact that they can't work beyond a mouse manufactured beyond 1972 (that's when I was born and three-button mice were first made. Wiki that, Jack.) clearly shows that they focused on consoles first.

 

To PC players:

 

Patch 5 is not your savior. However, Bioware is back to listening to the community (maybe not here, but they are listening to beta feedback) A few of us who have been critical (like myself) is giving Bioware another chance and I'm beta-testing this DLC and patch so we can get our beloved franchise on track. I am betting it will take another couple months to get the mouse patch worked in. Only then, I would say, is the game ready for PC release. 

 

To those apologists and fanboys that keep coming to this thread:

 

EA loves you. Or I should say, love to laugh at you. They don't need you. They justify their silence on their end thanks to you. Whatever you have to say about the game, say it in Feedback and Suggestions or anywhere else. Stop trolling here. You aggravate the situation. Most of you are dullards anyway.

 

Well... back to Skyhold. I have a storage container that I'm trying to fill.

 

A very realistic assessment of the current state of affairs, indeed.

 

I would also remind the "hopeful ones" that there is traditionally only a small window of "game fixes" before the developer abandons any attempts at "fixing" the game any further. We are approaching the end of that window and I believe it is Bioware's intention to make the next patch the last one.

 

So if mouse mappings, UI improvements and general optimizations for PC (and all the other things the Pc community is hoping for) don't make it into this patch, it will never happen. Even if they keep harping on about how they are continuing to find ways to improve the PC experience, it is nothing but hot air with the hope things will eventually just die down - and it will.

 

For it is not a matter of "finding ways" to implement a proper KB&M scheme into a game. This is 2015 - you either do it or you don't.

Bioware is NOT going to do it. This was quite clear since day 1.

 

And Dragon Age 4 (likely to be a full-on MMO) won't be any better.

If you look back, Bioware is not "progressing" the PC experience, they are in fact, phasing it out.

 

This is the reality of the matter. I believe that any enhancements we see for this game will be a big defining factor for the future of this franchise on PC.

[Randomguy]

Still waiting on tactical mode improvements. I want tilt control, and I want the camera to not be stuck to the effing ground and I wanted these things 2 months ago.

Also, we need better a.i combat options like the customizable options they had in dragon age origins and dragon age 2. If I want the a.i to engage within a certain range with a specific spell like spirit blade I should be able to set that up, instead we can only turn spells off completely or favorite them in the a.i options lmfao. Wtf is that dog crap? Is this a standalone franchise or a sequel to existing gameplay? Oh right its a sequel, so why is this gameplay such dog crap?

Been wanting that a.i control enhancement 2 months ago as well. 

PS: This game sucks.

I'm in the beta btw. Whatever you guys are looking forward to, tone that excitement down to minimal levels, then set it on fire.

Cyan, your baldurs gate days are only going to happen when you flip these people the bird and then go play sword coast legends https://swordcoast.com/which is being made by the director of dragon age origins and several other old-school bioware developers. Those guys made up the brains of the operation at bioware. They don't work there anymore. Let me repeat that, they don't work there anymore and they haven't worked there since origins, which explains many things regarding why bioware has been a failure since dragon age 2.

Don't expect anything like baldur's gate from bioware. They consist of console loving amateurs who probably play call of duty on their off-time.

 

I guess inquisition is what it is because too many relevant people got replaced. The new guys have obviously no love for rpg-s nor any concept for making a proper one Origins was. For the record: Skyrim is damn good action-oriented (but very dull combat without mods) sandbox game with leveling system and some nice customization but its far from an rpg. At least they didnt change the formula since Morrowind. Skyrim is all the same but with horses. Its like the sports games, a new version always comes out. Until now because the franchise is pretty much ruined by the horrible mmo but thats another story.

[Jackal19851111]

Bethesda only published it, not develop it.

[Randomguy]

Bethesda only published it, not develop it.

 

But next Elder Scrolls will be probably on hold until all of the monstrous mmo goes down completely in the drain. Thats just bad. Same thing as Warcraft strategy game series. Companies still dont learn, they make everything into mmo. DA almost went down that way. Tough considering the current situation that might have been better...

[Archerwarden]

@Cyan Griffonclaw,
Thank You and Shelled and Dubya75 and all those that are in the beta test. Really do appreciate you spending your free time to do what Bioware should on their own.

My apologies for putting you on the spot- I seem to keep doing that. You didn't say too much.

Hope is good, I just don't have much left and keep hanging here cause well...

You guys are all so nice and have to know how NCongrous stories end!

[Kresa]

Well i really hope they will keep supporting the game, but i did learn from my mistakes and aint buying full priced AAA games anymore,  just bought the other day AC Unity for 18$ , after 5 patches its working well and i can enjoy a working patched game for 1/3 the price instead of paying a full price for a bugged unfinished product.

[Ashen Nedra]

This is exactly the reason why there's an NDA. We've had several testers come into this thread and make contradictory comments after they'd signed an agreement not to. End result: contradictory information and the likelihood that people will be unhappy, based on this. Closed beta means that some of the content may be changed after the feedback; some of what we test won't go live.

 

Seriously, guys, if you weren't prepared to stick to your agreement, don't test.

Did you join the Beta test, dear Bethgael? I wasn't able to follow the forum for two weeks, except for some brief moments in the Pc players group and there, so, I'm a little disconnected. Can you disclose the terms of the non disclosure agreement?

 

Most lawyers never think of that one.  

[DragonsDream]

Did you join the Beta test, dear Bethgael? I wasn't able to follow the forum for two weeks, except for some brief moments in the Pc players group and there, so, I'm a little disconnected. Can you disclose the terms of the non disclosure agreement?

 

Most lawyers never think of that one.

as I had the weird experience of getting through the sign up package and signing the NDA but not getting into the beta (I started the process at night but didn't finish until 8 hours later in the morning so something got screwed up in transit) I can tell you the NDA basically said that you are allowed to say there is a patch being tested and that you are a beta tester. All other components of the beta are under the NDA

[DarkAmaranth1966]

This is exactly the reason why there's an NDA. We've had several testers come into this thread and make contradictory comments after they'd signed an agreement not to. End result: contradictory information and the likelihood that people will be unhappy, based on this. Closed beta means that some of the content may be changed after the feedback; some of what we test won't go live.

 

Seriously, guys, if you weren't prepared to stick to your agreement, don't test.

Exactly. Saying the patch is looking good, it's got a lot of good stuff in it is one thing. Saying what that good stuff is is another thing. Not so much that Bioware doesn't want to tell everyone but, what if something is broken and can't be repaired before release or, they change something drastically before release to make it work better? We testers don't need to get people hyped for specifics that might not make it at all or, might be different when it's released.

[Ashen Nedra]

Did you join the Beta test, dear Bethgael? I wasn't able to follow the forum for two weeks, except for some brief moments in the Pc players group and there, so, I'm a little disconnected. Can you disclose the terms of the non disclosure agreement?

 

Most lawyers never think of that one.

ok, thank you...and ea takes my fun away another time...it's becoming a habit of theirs

[SwobyJ]

Its kinda weird if EA is focusing so much on the console experience since a lot (from my perspective at least) seems to indicate:

 

1)Consoles will become more PC-like over time, whether Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo like it or not. We'll see if this idea picks up and the Big 3 have to adapt to that market.

2)Consoles are still successful, but seemingly not as much as before, and mentalities are gradually shifting towards a friendliness to PCs (in the literal term) to various extents; smartphones, tablets, etc. We've already seen that this 'next gen' console cycle is in fact so clearly as 'barely as good as PC' standard that it is already 'outdated', for the first time (even the 360/PS3 cycle was understandable for its tech at the time).

3)Any sort of future perifferal (like VR) will be just as capable, if not more so, on PC.

 

I don't hate consoles. I have several, I've enjoyed console gaming most of my gaming life. Still do (and weirdly, I'm lately really loving Nintendo stuff overall for the first time). But more and more seems to indicate that they're on their way out, at least as they've been traditionally understood since the 90s or so. Maybe, I guess, EA may want to focus on consoles for the next years and see how that goes? Yet I only see the PC market growing, and it seems to me that all that needs to happen for consoles to plummet is a mainstream culture shift away from them as 'old news' and they're done. People are becoming more and more tech savvy enough to have a PC and know how to send its signals to the TV anyway.

 

I'm not all #masterrace here for the record. I consider both consoles and PCs as just forms of computers, not ways of gaming to adhere to.

 

It just kinda confuses me to see Bioware seemingly abandon a market that may only grow (PC sales have been declining lately I think, but not the PC gaming population) and remember such treatment in the future. Its like these guys live in the 2000s, when so many thought that PC gaming would die and consoles would be everything. Sure, a lot of consoles are everywhere now, but they're not necessarily going to be used for your games, or even gaming at all.

 

Then again, maybe I'm living in the 2020s, and need to adjust to 2010s expectations? *shrug* I do tend to predict and expect things a decade from now that won't be so applicable or important today, so maybe my thoughts on PC (or just 'computers' at that point?) may be unrealistic for EA's business. Maybe this is still a decade of "Fine, we'll barely continue PC support because so many play it, but don't expect anything 'special'!" from big gaming companies that prefer the stability of console game sales.

 

 

Damn my futurism. I'd probably be both the best and worst at being a business type.

[Hexoduen]

... So if mouse mappings, UI improvements and general optimizations for PC (and all the other things the Pc community is hoping for) don't make it into this patch, it will never happen ...

 

Initially the key concerns addressed here http://blog.bioware....black-emporium/ also stated rebindable mouse-buttons. I'm guessing it was removed since Bioware is having trouble with Frostbite. They said they're still working on it since they know it's important for the PC community, so call me a dreamer but I still have my hopes up.

[Shelled]

PC sales haven't been declining (who can blame people for trying to pirate this junk though...). They just never compare console sales to pc digital sales and digital sales make the majority of pc sales. So whenever you hear about numbers sold, take it with a grain of salt.

What this really comes down to is EA wanting to dumb everything down for 12 year olds, that and having inept and incompetent developers that are only in it for the money, well it isn't a good combination. When that happens you get games like this.

[Iakus]

Cyan, your baldurs gate days are only going to happen when you flip these people the bird and then go play sword coast legends https://swordcoast.com/which is being made by the director of dragon age origins and several other old-school bioware developers. Those guys made up the brains of the operation at bioware. They don't work there anymore. Let me repeat that, they don't work there anymore and they haven't worked there since origins, which explains many things regarding why bioware has been a failure since dragon age 2.
 

 

Also just wanna point out Pillars of Eternity comes out next month

[Hexoduen]

Also just wanna point out Pillars of Eternity comes out next month

 

I backed this, obviously

[DragonsDream]

Initially the key concerns addressed here http://blog.bioware....black-emporium/ also stated rebindable mouse-buttons. I'm guessing it was removed since Bioware is having trouble with Frostbite. They said they're still working on it since they know it's important for the PC community, so call me a dreamer but I still have my hopes up.

I am remaining optimistic as well, mostly because I really want to be able to play this game and can't/won't until proper m+kb controls are implemented. Blizzard was making changes/improvements *for free* to Diablo 2 for years after release. the final patch, which was actually a fairly major one, significantly changed the way single player games were played and that came after nearly everyone assumed Bliz was done with it and focusing entirely on WoW and SC2. So I hope that Bioware will keep working on updates & improvements to DAI that make it a better experience for PC gamers. I know 10 years ago when D2 was getting updated, the idea of paid for DLC wasn't what it is today but I am by nature a hopeful person.

 

For the most part, these are almost entirely technical complaints. The mechanics of the game. Sure there have been some criticism of the actual content but nothing along the lines of the ME3 ending debacle. Fixing how a mouse works is a hell of a lot easier than changing the story or rewriting a character. DAI is a huge game with some amazing stuff going on. I trust that the people sitting at computers 8 hours a day writing code can eventually figure out how to remap a mouse button.

[Dubya75]

Initially the key concerns addressed here http://blog.bioware....black-emporium/ also stated rebindable mouse-buttons. I'm guessing it was removed since Bioware is having trouble with Frostbite. They said they're still working on it since they know it's important for the PC community, so call me a dreamer but I still have my hopes up.

 

LMFAO (hysterically for a while)....

 

Bioware is having trouble with Frostbite, so after 4 YEARS THEY STILL CAN'T PROVIDE REBINDABLE MOUSE BUTTONS even when other games USING FROSTBITE already has it implemented??? The people who CREATED the damn engine is a phone call away!!!

And on top of that, MODDERS are able to make more progress in 3 months' time with VERY LITTLE EXPERIENCE with Frostbite compared to these incompetent developers, using 3RD PARTY TOOLS cobbled together in their free time???

 

Never in my entire life have I seen such incompetence in implementing BASIC and STANDARD features for a ****** PC game - stuff you get in ALL PC GAMES SINCE THE ****** STONE AGE!!!

 

Oh no....they are all sitting on their hands with their thumbs pointing upwards. 

 

Honestly, the lack of proficiency and general competence Bioware is exhibiting makes me want to DIE!!!

[Randomguy]

PC sales haven't been declining (who can blame people for trying to pirate this junk though...). They just never compare console sales to pc digital sales and digital sales make the majority of pc sales. So whenever you hear about numbers sold, take it with a grain of salt.

What this really comes down to is EA wanting to dumb everything down for 12 year olds, that and having inept and incompetent developers that are only in it for the money, well it isn't a good combination. When that happens you get games like this.

 

Its hardly worth bandwith let alone money. Im curious how well the DLC sales will be on pc because they clearly will not improve the gameplay significantly. They just started tweaking the zoom of the tactical camera? Its a nice thing they finally getting into the concept of playing with mouse and keyboard tough.

 

Walking toggle (lol), zoomable tac cam and an autoattack toggle. The changes 3 months after release and the last 2 are in beta phase. The bindable mouse buttons are not even in alpha? Is it a long-term plan? (facepalm). Annd party based combat means hacknslashing while some npc-s in your party blindly doing their own thing in lack of tactics customization. But i guess by now its accepted as ok. By the time everyone will be playing Witcher 3  they might get the game almost something worthy of mentioning as a game that was horrible **** posing as an rpg but got a little better. True story.

 

edit: had to edit, there was no **** in it.

Modifié par Randomguy, 23 février 2015 - 04:27 .

[Hexoduen]

LMFAO (hysterically for a while)....

 

Bioware is having trouble with Frostbite, so after 4 YEARS THEY STILL CAN'T PROVIDE REBINDABLE MOUSE BUTTONS even when other games USING FROSTBITE already has it implemented??? The people who CREATED the damn engine is a phone call away!!!

And on top of that, MODDERS are able to make more progress in 3 months' time with VERY LITTLE EXPERIENCE with Frostbite compared to these incompetent developers, using 3RD PARTY TOOLS cobbled together in their free time???

 

Never in my entire life have I seen such incompetence in implementing BASIC and STANDARD features for a ****** PC game - stuff you get in ALL PC GAMES SINCE THE ****** STONE AGE!!!

 

Oh no....they are all sitting on their hands with their thumbs pointing upwards. 

 

Honestly, the lack of proficiency and general competence Bioware is exhibiting makes me want to DIE!!!

 

Yes I'm assuming they're having trouble with Frostbite, if it was easy they'd have mouse mapping implemented by now. I'm assuming Inquisition wasn't designed with rebindable mouse buttons in mind, it didn't take priority. XONE and PS4 seems to have taken priority at launch.

[Dubya75]

Yes I'm assuming they're having trouble with Frostbite. You're assuming they spent 4 years on rebindable mouse buttons?   I'm assuming Inquisition wasn't designed with this in mind since XONE and PS4 seems to have taken priority at launch.

 

I am not "assuming" they should have tried to implement rebindable mouse buttons for 4 years. Don't twist my words. I am saying they had 4 years in which to get it right. Out of 4 years, they could have spent ONE MONTH setting up PC controls and UI. 

 

You are right however in saying DAI was never designed with PC in mind. Oh how right you are about that! And now Bioware devs are scrambling and making a huge mess of things, trying to retro-fit something that should have been given THE SAME PRIORITY because last time I checked they sold me a PC GAME I PAID the same amount of money for than someone buying the PS4 version, you see?

[Hexoduen]

I am not "assuming" they should have tried to implement rebindable mouse buttons for 4 years. Don't twist my words. I am saying they had 4 years in which to get it right. Out of 4 years, they could have spent ONE MONTH setting up PC controls and UI. 

 

You are right however in saying DAI was never designed with PC in mind. Oh how right you are about that! And now Bioware devs are scrambling and making a huge mess of things, trying to retro-fit something that should have been given THE SAME PRIORITY because last time I checked they sold me a PC GAME I PAID the same amount of money for than someone buying the PS4 version, you see?

 

I am sorry, I can be a smart mouth at times  After writing the initial post I edited it as above. What should have happened during those 4 years is what is happening now; PC gamers are testing and providing feedback on the beta. I'd only have to play the game for a few minutes to notice how bad PC controls, UI, menus and especially inventory management is

[KilrB]

Exactly. Saying the patch is looking good, it's got a lot of good stuff in it is one thing. Saying what that good stuff is is another thing. Not so much that Bioware doesn't want to tell everyone but, what if something is broken and can't be repaired before release or, they change something drastically before release to make it work better? We testers don't need to get people hyped for specifics that might not make it at all or, might be different when it's released.

 

What we're hearing so far has me hopeful, particularly the "less crashing" part.

 

I appreciate that we are able to get an "overall" from our beta testers.

 

If EAware wants an NDA, that's their business and those who signed on with it need to respect that.

 

We are at a point now where we, the PC gamers, are possibly damned if we do and certainly damned if we don't.

 

We either participate in and/or support this beta test and accept whatever comes of it, or we doom ourselves to being totally disregarded from now on.

 

I am glad that something, anything, is finally being done to address the problems and deficiencies of DA:I.

 

Will we get everything we've wanted? Certainly not, but it sounds as though most/some of the more important issues are being addressed.

 

However, like many, I am a still bit put-out by the fact that we are having to do EAware's job for them several months after release.

 

They are supposed to be a AAA developer ... right?

 

And as far as getting "people hyped for specifics that might not make it at all or, might be different when it's released" goes ... is that not exactly what they did to us pre-release?

 

Hey EAware, I'm an adult. I can handle a little disappointment, just give me some fair warning and an explanation.

 

Don't lie to me, then give me the silent treatment for weeks, and then try to blame me for the problems you created.