19127 réponses à ce sujet

[KilrB]

I hate to sort of burst your bubble here, because it is a pleasant thought...but when games were restricted to floppies they were an order of magnitude more simple in every way, and a very good reason they weren't patched often is because through 1990 (maybe even as late as '95) the Internet was extremely immature if it existed at all in your neck of the woods, and 14.4k class (even 56k) modems were incredibly slow by today's standards.  I got plenty of patches in those days--floppies sent through the US snail mail--which could take days if not weeks sometimes.  It was not only expensive, it was also very slow, but the size of games-that-fit-on-a-floppy was itself very small compared to current multi-gigabyte installed game sizes (undreamed of in those days.)  Games weren't better: just far smaller & less complex, with far less content. Hence, less patching was required as games were easier to troubleshoot, and when they came at all patches were very small compared to what happens today.

 

Well there you have it folks ...

 

The internet makes it OK to lie to your customers and sell them crap that doesn't work as advertised, if it works at all.

 

So stop yer complaining.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I hate to sort of burst your bubble here, because it is a pleasant thought...but when games were restricted to floppies they were an order of magnitude more simple in every way, and a very good reason they weren't patched often is because through 1990 (maybe even as late as '95) the Internet was extremely immature if it existed at all in your neck of the woods, and 14.4k class (even 56k) modems were incredibly slow by today's standards.  I got plenty of patches in those days--floppies sent through the US snail mail--which could take days if not weeks sometimes.  It was not only expensive, it was also very slow, but the size of games-that-fit-on-a-floppy was itself very small compared to current multi-gigabyte installed game sizes (undreamed of in those days.)  Games weren't better: just far smaller & less complex, with far less content. Hence, less patching was required as games were easier to troubleshoot, and when they came at all patches were very small compared to what happens today.

I second this, older games were a lot simpler, even as late as 1999. Want to go see for yourself? Here's one I used to be a GM for, until it went free to play and was overrun by bots and gold spammers. http://the4thcoming.com/index.phpI wouldn't recommend it now, but hey, if you want one of the earliest MPORPG, go for it.

 

Even then, I could write games (did write some of the added content in that one) Now I wouldn't even attempt something like DAI.

 

A game that thought 512MB RAM was abundant is a lot less trouble that a game that thinks 4GB is not enough RAM. Try a simple version Have a friend who is a bad speller write a story of 512 woods that you have to spell check, then have the same friend do one of 4000 words and spell check that. Which one is more time consuming and difficult to get 100% error free?

[DavianBurke]

I second this, older games were a lot simpler, even as late as 1999. Want to go see for yourself? Here's one I used to be a GM for, [comma splice] until it went free to play and was overrun by bots and gold spammers. http://the4thcoming.com/index.phpI wouldn't recommend it now, but hey, if you want one of the earliest MPORPG [MMORPG], go for it.

 

Even then, I could write games (did write some of the added content in that one) [No period] Now I wouldn't even attempt something like DAI.

 

A game that thought 512MB RAM was abundant is a lot less trouble that a game that thinks 4GB is not enough RAM. Try a simple version [No period] Have a friend who is a bad speller write a story of 512 woods [words] that you have to spell check, then have the same friend do one of 4000 words and spell check that. Which one is more time consuming and difficult to get 100% error free?

 

 

As a teacher, I understand your point.

[Jackal19851111]

I still remember before the internet when patches had to come through magazines like PC gamer/PC powerplay etc, internet just helped with the distribution but didn't change much in terms of buggy games or solid games on release.

 

But back then we had DEMOS! Sure, demos could hide mid/late game bugs, but they can't hide console port gameplay!

 

Imagine if DAI had a demo for PC...

[CatatonicMan]

However you may personally feel about the controls, UI, tac cam, crashes, whatever... the game should have been released with these very major issues already addressed. 

 

The problem is that Bioware didn't see these things as being issues at all prior to release. I'm not entirely sure they see them as issues now, even after we explicitly pointed out all the problems.

 

I can't test the recent fixes myself, but from what I hear....well, it's like Bioware is trying to fix a problem without really understanding what's broken. All the fixes solve a problem, but the problem they solve isn't quite the one that everyone is complaining about. Kinda like nailing the bullseye on the wrong target.

[DavianBurke]

The problem is that Bioware didn't see these things as being issues at all prior to release. I'm not entirely sure they see them as issues now, even after we explicitly pointed out all the problems.

 

I can't test the recent fixes myself, but from what I hear....well, it's like Bioware is trying to fix a problem without really understanding what's broken. All the fixes solve a problem, but the problem they solve isn't quite the one that everyone is complaining about. Kinda like nailing the bullseye on the wrong target.

 

I call complete BS. I know for a fact they knew of the issues. What's more, they avoided releasing a demo like they did with DA2 and ME3 specifically because they knew that doing so would crush their bottom line when physical PC pre-orders were cancelled as were all the digital copies. 

A demo would have tanked this game's standing sales-wise. Don't try to pretend they didn't know how lousy this was. They crafted a video designed specifically to lie about the shortcomings strictly for sales purposes. 

Didn't see these things as issues prior to release... right. 

[CatatonicMan]

I call complete BS. I know for a fact they knew of the issues. What's more, they avoided releasing a demo like they did with DA2 and ME3 specifically because they knew that doing so would crush their bottom line when physical PC pre-orders were cancelled as were all the digital copies. 

A demo would have tanked this game's standing sales-wise. Don't try to pretend they didn't know how lousy this was. They crafted a video designed specifically to lie about the shortcomings strictly for sales purposes. 

Didn't see these things as issues prior to release... right. 

 

It's really not that farfetched. We even have a QA guy early on in the thread confirming that he personally had no issues with the PC controls.

 

Hanlon's Razor applies here, methinks.

 

They designed the game around a controller and a specific, action-RPG play style that works well with controllers - both consoles and PCs have controllers, after all. They then mapped this play style to M&KB, which worked well enough. Slap on a token PC UI and go. They expected exactly one play style, and that's exactly how they designed and tested the game.

 

Then we come along expecting something entirely different, and we blindside them with something their echo chamber didn't account for. Queue scramble to fix the blatant (to us) design flaws.

[TobyJake]

Just watch the "By PC Gamers for PC Gamers" video.

Laidlaw had great difficulty in using a mouse! That speaks volumes for their intent.

It was known and understood what they were releasing.

"Press the A Button!"

But did they realise what they were doing?

I don't think they did or they would have edited the hell out of it.

That is why we have 611 pages. The only Bioware presence here is the occasional sensitive moderator.

Of course they knew exactly the state of this game.

 

@Catatonic Man

PC's do not have controllers! You can buy one and add it as an accessory. You don't need a controller to play DA2. Which by the way has a UI light years ahead of DAI

[Amplitudelol]

Just watch the "By PC Gamers for PC Gamers" video.

Laidlaw had great difficulty in using a mouse! That speaks volumes for their intent.

It was known and understood what they were releasing.

"Press the A Button!"

But did they realise what they were doing?

I don't think they did or they would have edited the hell out of it.

That is why we have 611 pages. The only Bioware presence here is the occasional sensitive moderator.

Of course they knew exactly the state of this game.

 

@Catatonic Man

PC's do not have controllers! You can buy one and add it as an accessory. You don't need a controller to play DA2. Which by the way has a UI light years ahead of DAI

 

This thread might have a few hundred less pages if they didnt make that video.

 

"Why is Inquisition so awesome on PC?"

"Because its a damn console game ported to PC, but we have guys with hell of a lot pc experience working here!"

 

...

 

-Sir, tactical camera is too close to the ground, what changes do you want to make?

-We have true pc gamers here as we mentioned in the popular video we made before release. After 3 months we are proud to present you the the tac cam zoom scale in the options menu!

-But Sir! What about the mouse wheel? Is it not the most intiutive way to do it? What is mouse wheel doing now in tac cam mode?

- We are perfectly satisfied with our solutions, thank you for asking!

- Why do we have 8 abilities?

- Because we think that perfectly fits the controller control scheme.

- Sir, i thought you said it was as PC game for PC gam...

- Yes, when you push any of those 8 abilities something awesome happens. We have won severeal GOTY and we have people with extraordinary talent to make good pc games.

- What about things like fps cap on cutscenes?

- What about it?

-But Sir!...

-Have a nice day and stay tuned for any tweets regarding how awesome we think the game is!

-...Oh, thank you Mr. Laidlaw, keep up the good work!

[Xyxlplic]

It is annoying.

I think I'll just leave the chests that are supposed to have amulets unlooted (and not kill any dragons), and hopefully they patch it before I need to do the Winter Palace (it's coming up soon, though) and the amulets will be there when I go back.

Neither of Dorian's amulets in the Western Approach are dropping, Varric's in Valammar isn't there, and I was doing a quick run through the Winter Palace and noticed that Vivienne's didn't spawn either. Other people have noted that none of the dragon ones drop anymore, both of Cassandra's are gone, and the player amulet from the Fade doesn't drop despite being the main reward for the quest.

If they don't do a hot fix (which seems like a definite possibility, since it's not a PC-only issue this time), I may end up needing to wait for the next patch (presumably sometime next month) to continue playing. I won't be very happy about it.

So they fixed the Amulet dupe exploit by deleting Amulets from the game?

 

Seems a tad heavy-handed.

[Kurt M.]

No apology needed - like "Varric", we all have one or two and, no two of us will agree 100% of the time. If I couldn't take a bit of disagreement, I'd stay out of this thread. Still thank you and, apology accepted.

 

Niceness? In BSN? Oh, the world is so gonna end....

[Kurt M.]

I second this, older games were a lot simpler, even as late as 1999. Want to go see for yourself? Here's one I used to be a GM for, until it went free to play and was overrun by bots and gold spammers. http://the4thcoming.com/index.phpI wouldn't recommend it now, but hey, if you want one of the earliest MPORPG, go for it.

 

Even then, I could write games (did write some of the added content in that one) Now I wouldn't even attempt something like DAI.

 

A game that thought 512MB RAM was abundant is a lot less trouble that a game that thinks 4GB is not enough RAM. Try a simple version Have a friend who is a bad speller write a story of 512 woods that you have to spell check, then have the same friend do one of 4000 words and spell check that. Which one is more time consuming and difficult to get 100% error free?

 

I second that games are much more complex than before, but also today's companies have more budget and resources to cope with it, and software developing has also (technically) evolved to make things easier (again, in theory...as I said, I'm no programmer). Games nowadays have DirectX, for example, and don't have to deal with a SETUP.BAT in order for you to manually choose what Soundblaster sound card you have.

 

(Been playing PC games since Doom II, and computer games since Commodore 64 ).

[bdipauly]

 Try a simple version Have a friend who is a bad speller write a story of 512 woods that you have to spell check, then have the same friend do one of 4000 words and spell check that. Which one is more time consuming and difficult to get 100% error free?

The irony

[Invisible Man]

I second that games are much more complex than before, but also today's companies have more budget and resources to cope with it, and software developing has also (technically) evolved to make things easier (again, in theory...as I said, I'm no programmer). Games nowadays have DirectX, for example, and don't have to deal with a SETUP.BAT in order for you to manually choose what Soundblaster sound card you have.
 
(Been playing PC games since Doom II, and computer games since Commodore 64 ).

got into pc gaming around 94 or so myself, was using consoles before that... NES, SNES, genesis. was a pen & paper rpg-er even earlier then that, not to mention a bookshelf freak as well.

[Jackal19851111]

NES... hell I never played long on console as a kid, PC gaming had so much depth even in the old days to the point I moved to PC gaming pretty early. Think it was the strategy genre in the end that got me hooked, something that just can't be played well on a controller. Also FPSs, from Wolfenstein to Doom to Quake to Unreal... hell Unreal - it had an editor, and got me even more hooked on PC gaming when you have moddability! So much more immersion/control using the mouse too.

 

Seriously I don't know how people play on consoles using auto-aim and controllers in FPSs, but hey, just not my thing I guess

[Invisible Man]

NES... hell I never played long on console as a kid, PC gaming had so much depth even in the old days to the point I moved to PC gaming pretty early. Think it was the strategy genre in the end that got me hooked, something that just can't be played well on a controller. Also FPSs, from Wolfenstein to Doom to Quake to Unreal... hell Unreal - it had an editor, and got me even more hooked on PC gaming when you have moddability! So much more immersion/control using the mouse too.
 
Seriously I don't know how people play on consoles using auto-aim and controllers in FPSs, but hey, just not my thing I guess

I was... like, 4-10 years of age at that point (twas 10 in 1994). I was still playing F-zero and sonic at the time. though, by 1994 my favorite game was Panzer General on my HP386. and yes I could whoop my dad at PG, who turned me on to it even.

---edit
at age 6 I didn't even have a computer, just a Nintendo, an Atari, and my SNES (though I think I was 8 when I got that last one)

[Jackal19851111]

With my NES I had cartridges for game packs, like 100in1 games etc, never really got into any of them. Parents couldn't keep me entertained lol!

 

Prince of Persia was the first PC game I played actually, then SimCity (hell I must have played so much of it!), heck even Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, my first venture into dialogue-based gameplay, then WOLFENSTEIN 3D! Then Xwing, but then... my introduction to real time strategy, Command and Conquer, and that just blew my mind away (My favorite game), anyone remember this?

 

Heh I still listen to this track, hell I remember humming its tune with my mates at school haha

 

Used to be a flight sim fan too, hell still remember ATF gold where you can pilot ANYTHING, from hulky Hercules to sleek and sexy X31s or whatever they were. Heh and the blocky bullets!

 

Then Unreal, and moddability!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26I-Pw-yPJ4

 

Also remember voodoo 2 cards and openGL API was a big thing back in those days. The only games I missed out on were fighting games, but I just played those in the arcade with my mates anyway.

[Jackal19851111]

Also my tribute to C&C, not sure if you seen it, using the vehicle creator in Planet Explorers Alpha:

 

 

[Invisible Man]

my first RTS was either Dune II or warcraft, the original warcraft. though I did love C&C as well, the first red alert was wonderful, way back in the day.

---edit
first flight sim, might have been falcon, or strike eagle.

---edit
I also remember trying to get 1942 (pacific flight sim) to run on my rinky-dinky system for 4 months too, until I found it was no use.

[Jackal19851111]

 

 

Honestly at first I didn't like Westwood spinning off from the Tiberian series, but then this song, and when I started playing - I was hooked again heh

Though hell SP was unbalanced with C&C games, GDI/Soviets was just so much stronger than NOD/Allies, in MP you could use more guerilla tactics but in SP the game revolved around mass tank rushes, Blizzard had Westwood beat in this regard with WC/WC2 and SC. Still my favorite games however!

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I'm an old timer. Been playing games on PC since the mid eighties. Games like Star flight and Bards Tale: Scara Brae.

 

Before that I played arcade type games on a TI-99. Even wrote a game on it. Using tape for storage.

[Sartoz]

 snip

 

A game that thought 512MB RAM was abundant is a lot less trouble that a game that thinks 4GB is not enough RAM. Try a simple version Have a friend who is a bad speller write a story of 512 woods that you have to spell check, then have the same friend do one of 4000 words and spell check that. Which one is more time consuming and difficult to get 100% error free?

I think the gist of this sub-thread is a justification for complex game logic having bugs and its inherent difficulty in patching said elephantine game plus an apology for releasing a game not ready for prime time.

 

Bio's behaviour with DAI just re-inforced the Roman idiom of Caveat Emptor, which I have taken to heart.

[Sartoz]

I was... like, 4-10 years of age at that point (twas 10 in 1994). I was still playing F-zero and sonic at the time. though, by 1994 my favorite game was Panzer General on my HP386. and yes I could whoop my dad at PG, who turned me on to it even.

---edit
at age 6 I didn't even have a computer, just a Nintendo, an Atari, and my SNES (though I think I was 8 when I got that last one)

Panzer General was a good game.

[Kurt M.]

Going back On-Topic™....

 

I got the Amulet of Power for Cassandra in the Fallow Mire (chest) with a new, Patch 5 savegame. So either it only affects a handful of amulets, or only affects pre-Patch 5 savegames.

[Tinolyn]

I'd say this thread just ought to die. What hasn't been said?