19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Funchal99]

Why must thou continually keep making excuses for Bioware's incompetence art thou related to an employee or has thou forgotten to take off thine rose tinted glasses  ? 

I'm not related to any of the staff at Bioware, I simply strive to be reasonable. Though I'm probably talking to the wrong crowd. This IS the internet after all.

 

 

Oh, I got it. 

 

Bio had time for minor gag(s) but not for proper KB+M controls..... but I get it. Bio has time to fix exploits but not basic KB+M controls... I get it, no question about it. PC games don't have much use for good KB+M controls, but let's give them a gag...it will amuse them while their left hand gets a cramp from playing this awkward manifestation of PC controls for PG gamers made  by PC gamers.

 

I get the feeling you are from Bio from "..it was a minor gag..".  Either way, if our gag of cheesy fun upset you,.. welcome to the fold.

I...what? I'm not defending the clearly poor job they did with PC controls (though I'm currently playing through the game just fine having adapted to the current control scheme...it's not THAT impossible and absurd. Shocking, I know), I'm defending the fact they wanted to insert a gag in the game and so they did, simple as that. But people are so hellbent on complaining that they are now bashing even that. The gag and poor KB+M controls are completely unrelated subjects as far as I'm concerned, but you somehow made the gag the bane of your existence or the reason KB+M controls are bad. Your argument doesn't make any sense, but I guess you're not going to take my word for it anyway. Yeesh.

You are completely right to complain about the marketing to PC being a fluke and such, but you and other people here are just cherry picking stuff to complain now, as if a freaking silly joke like a cheese shield somehow broke the game entirely. That's not productive, it's just mindless criticism.

[Funchal99]

Exactly

 

Jokes, running gags, and being cutesy can be acceptable and amusing in a good, well-done, finished game.

 

Inquisition is none of these things.

 

The time and resources wasted on this were better spent toward improving the game.

 

The extra time Bioware had was spent on making spoons with cute rhyming descriptions with 210 DPS and cheese shields during their Q&A while mouse/keyboard is still not serviceable to most and you wonder why people are irate?  

I am sure little to no time was spent on this, and I just don't get why you guys think a gag is somehow related to the quality of the game itself. I mean, it's just not. A writer or programmer had this idea during development, and the time spent on implementing it has nothing at all to do with how the game came out, at least not in the scale you guys are arguing. I can't be clearer than this, and if you still disagree, you just don't wish to see reason.

[Funchal99]

Been away for a couple days. Had a question... seen some comments on this sprinkled throughout and am not sure why exactly but... 

 

What's the hate on the inclusion of same-sex relationships? I'm a straight male (First game romanced all the ladies through my playthroughs, Isabelle in DA2, Ashley and Miranda in ME, and Cassandra in DA:I) but I've never had an issue with the inclusion of same sex relationships. There was one time, in DA2 where I didn't notice the speech selection I used on Anders had a giant heart on it... but that had no further bearing as I never hearted him again. 

 

Yet I've seen some pretty harsh comments out there and the odd nudge in here. 

 

Ironically, what annoys me isn't the inclusion of homosexuals, but the widespread criticism of "but I want to romance xxxxx but s/he only likes boys/girls/elves" and then using mods to force it. 

 

The way I see it, the characters in the game have a certain integrity in their character as written. Like real people, they have their own sexuality and preferences within it. I find using a mod to force a straight character gay or a gay character straight to be FAR more offensive than the inclusion of a gay or trans character... as such an inclusion isn't offensive at all. 

Sure, if they forced a specific sexuality on my PC I would be miffed if it wasn't what I wanted to roleplay. Yet they don't. 

That's a very interesting point you raised. I think there's two groups: the ones that straight out just hate LGBT stuff in media for whatever reason (be it because of their personal beliefs, or because they see it as an agenda that's being forced on them) and the ones that believe a game should center around the player's tastes when it comes to the whole "role-playing" part of an RPG.

 

I don't think I should waste my time on the first group: that's what it is, this is what they think, point taken.

Now, speaking on the second group, I for one think Bioware's approach is pretty good in this regard because it assumes not everything in the world of the game revolves around you, the player. The characters still lead their own lives like anyone would, they don't necessarily fall in love madly with you just because you're the protagonist in the story and they all have their own sexual preferences, which makes it all more believable to me personally. I can certainly understand people that disagree though, since at the end of the day it's not unreasonable to argue that a role-playing game (or perhaps any game in general) is essentially about wish-fulfilment for the player, and everything should indeed be about you for the game to serve it's purpose. So yeah, guess it depends on how you see things.

[Sartoz]

That has not proven to be the case so far. As more things we test are released, the picture will get clearer. I expect it to be good, but only time will tell for sure.

Good to be positive, but focusing to plug  every exploits as it surfaces gives the wrong message with regards to PC improvements.

[FOE]

I've been away for a while and now I'm back to read how badly this thread has devolved yet again.  Is that "Errationus" guy the only sane person left?  The story, and the "moral choices" are the least of my worries.  Let's just get the control scheme fixed.  I'm not that far along in this game.  If I can get along in the game - ONLY after the controls are fixed - THEN, I'll decide if it's incompatible with my morality.  This is again, the PC Community Concerns thread.  If it's an universal problem with storylines/direction?  Then there's nothing here for you.  Boooware decided upon that area years ago.  Try to be realistic...and helpful.  Also try to see the real reason for this thread.  Thank you.

[Sartoz]

I'm not related to any of the staff at Bioware, I simply strive to be reasonable. Though I'm probably talking to the wrong crowd. This IS the internet after all.

 

 

I...what? I'm not defending the clearly poor job they did with PC controls (though I'm currently playing through the game just fine having adapted to the current control scheme...it's not THAT impossible and absurd. Shocking, I know), I'm defending the fact they wanted to insert a gag in the game and so they did, simple as that. But people are so hellbent on complaining that they are now bashing even that. The gag and poor KB+M controls are completely unrelated subjects as far as I'm concerned, but you somehow made the gag the bane of your existence or the reason KB+M controls are bad. Your argument doesn't make any sense, but I guess you're not going to take my word for it anyway. Yeesh.

You are completely right to complain about the marketing to PC being a fluke and such, but you and other people here are just cherry picking stuff to complain now, as if a freaking silly joke like a cheese shield somehow broke the game entirely. That's not productive, it's just mindless criticism.

Hm..

My past posts gave due were it was deserved.  Is that seen as cherry picked praise?

 

The marketing crap and POS KB+M controls is the result of console-centric design and corners cut short. The "made for PC... by PC.." is what sticks in my craw. Clearly the UI, inventory and PC device input controls are poorly implemented for a PC... input controls that are 1) Keyboard and 2) Mouse .

 

Between my craw and unresolved game issues plus a lack of forward momentum regarding PC gamers'  major sticky points, gags are hard to swallow.  However,  objectively you are right... it's a minor gag, normally funny.

[Sartoz]

That's a very interesting point you raised. I think there's two groups: the ones that straight out just hate LGBT stuff in media for whatever reason (be it because of their personal beliefs, or because they see it as an agenda that's being forced on them) and the ones that believe a game should center around the player's tastes when it comes to the whole "role-playing" part of an RPG.

 

 Snip

Well, I guess all controversy can be eliminated by removing romance and nudity and make sure the story sticks with the game theme, thus avoiding social traps. Add a mod kit and the modding community can step in and do what they do best. Individual gamers can then install whatever mods they want.

 

Everyone is happy in the yellow submarine.

[TobyJake]

I'm not related to any of the staff at Bioware, I simply strive to be reasonable. Though I'm probably talking to the wrong crowd. This IS the internet after all.

 

 

I...what? I'm not defending the clearly poor job they did with PC controls (though I'm currently playing through the game just fine having adapted to the current control scheme...it's not THAT impossible and absurd. Shocking, I know), I'm defending the fact they wanted to insert a gag in the game and so they did, simple as that. But people are so hellbent on complaining that they are now bashing even that. The gag and poor KB+M controls are completely unrelated subjects as far as I'm concerned, but you somehow made the gag the bane of your existence or the reason KB+M controls are bad. Your argument doesn't make any sense, but I guess you're not going to take my word for it anyway. Yeesh.

You are completely right to complain about the marketing to PC being a fluke and such, but you and other people here are just cherry picking stuff to complain now, as if a freaking silly joke like a cheese shield somehow broke the game entirely. That's not productive, it's just mindless criticism.

Hi. Not having a go at you! But you do need to understand that a lot of guys have been here since 18 Nov or earlier. We have been through 5 patch cycles. BW has appeared here what 2 3 times. We have been shut down once. We were very pleased when Alan Shumacker came on line. But since then nothing. The PR skills of BW are none existent. Most guys here are pro Bioware (for the moment), but have been treated with little or no respect. We are not hellbent on complaining, but are hellbent on getting a game that at least works.

[TobyJake]

I have the Cassandra mod that removes the male only status. But that's what mods are for. Choice. Looking at the dialogue, I would tend to believe that male only was an after thought. Too many hints appear! Very evident, to my eyes anyway, that Cassandra was originally at least BI.

It's of little consequence. But food for thought on why she ended up as an Aveline copy!

[Invisible Man]

I have the Cassandra mod that removes the male only status. But that's what mods are for. Choice. Looking at the dialogue, I would tend to believe that male only was an after thought. Too many hints appear! Very evident, to my eyes anyway, that Cassandra was originally at least BI.
It's of little consequence. But food for thought on why she ended up as an Aveline copy!

I don't know if I'm not recalling this correctly or what, but I recollect a scene where Aveline gives hawk a fairly long kiss if you tried to romance her, regardless of whether or not hawk is male or female, that tells me she might be bi? it's at the end of the getting her and donnic together "mission". so it's not quite the same thing, though I guess it's close enough. so, just forget I said anything, I'm just nitpicking.

[Dubya75]

Wow, the bitching levels here are so extreme that people are now whining about the cheese shield? It was a minor gag, people. You have the right not to like it, but just get over it. You'll survive. 

 

Not that I am a big fan of Bioware's rather unnecessary silence at times, but I can certainly understand why they don't reply much. This place is so full of over-entitled whiners and pseudo-intelectual bullcrap being sold as "smart, reasonable responses/criticism" it's just just crazy, and nobody will ever be satisfied with whatever they reply anyway. It's just too blown out of the water by now.

 

They certainly made mistakes, but yeesh, this is just mass hysteria.

 

And your post is of much greater value, of course!

 

[Invisible Man]

And your post is of much greater value, of course!
 

always liked that gif, even if I don't agree with your point. though I do admit this thread has become a bit of a venting ground, though we "whiners" do need frequent venting.

[DisturbedJim83]

You two are funny. 

 

Say them more funny word things until we are is all edumacationed! 

 

Me mash out my thanks! hoiluwfe;hogfe;ogef;ogewf;gwe8dsbjudsjkbu1lol! 

Its probably just Funchal's alt account so he can agree with his own deluded opinion either that or its another Bioware apologist which is possible since these cretin breed like Darkspawn.

[DisturbedJim83]

Ha, so much for the fancy Image button, thanks!  Using BB code works, hopefully:

 

Speaking of clipping (well a few posts ago), here are a couple of interestingly funny ones I came across yesterday:

 

 

So yeah, armor clipping in Skyhold would be a relatively minor issue.

The 2nd picture = mass effect consolization confirmed, must be the synthesis ending fron that equally horrid MP infested title ME3 

[General Masser Phi]

Many need to vent when they feel BuyO'ware and EA have stolen their money by conning them with false advertisements.

 

Funny how the white fog bug doesn't appear in the game until your about 10-20 hrs in - Seems like they removed all the fog from the beginning of the game, so those who expected to be able to run in SLI couldn't demand a refund the instant they loaded up the game and were blinded by such a game breaking issue. They had to play it for just enough time to no longer be eligible for a refund. 

 

Hmmmmmmm must jut be a coincidence, EA/BuyO'Ware would never do anything dishonorable like that would they?  

 

NOT ONE CENT MORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dubya75]

Many need to vent when they feel BuyO'ware and EA have stolen their money by conning them with false advertisements.

 

Funny how the white fog bug doesn't appear in the game until your about 10-20 hrs in - Seems like they removed all the fog from the beginning of the game, so those who expected to be able to run in SLI couldn't demand a refund the instant they loaded up the game and were blinded by such a game breaking issue. They had to play it for just enough time to no longer be eligible for a refund. 

 

Hmmmmmmm must jut be a coincidence, EA/BuyO'Ware would never do anything dishonorable like that would they?  

 

NOT ONE CENT MORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Good games don't result in 600+ page threads with a title of "PC Community Concerns", with angry comments from hundreds of people all complaining about the same stuff.

After nearly 4 months, some people STILL can't play their game without having to put up with graphic bugs and poorly implemented PC controls, among other things.

Why should ANYONE be satisfied with this after paying a premium for the game?

 

And Bioware has had PLENTY of time to come here and put things right with their fans, but instead they are cowering behind their lawyers and PR advisers.

 

The PC community deserves a massive apology from Bioware, but since they are too proud to admit they messed this up, I hope they NEVER hear the end of it!

[DisturbedJim83]

That's a very interesting point you raised. I think there's two groups: the ones that straight out just hate LGBT stuff in media for whatever reason (be it because of their personal beliefs, or because they see it as an agenda that's being forced on them) and the ones that believe a game should center around the player's tastes when it comes to the whole "role-playing" part of an RPG.

 

I don't think I should waste my time on the first group: that's what it is, this is what they think, point taken.

Now, speaking on the second group, I for one think Bioware's approach is pretty good in this regard because it assumes not everything in the world of the game revolves around you, the player. The characters still lead their own lives like anyone would, they don't necessarily fall in love madly with you just because you're the protagonist in the story and they all have their own sexual preferences, which makes it all more believable to me personally. I can certainly understand people that disagree though, since at the end of the day it's not unreasonable to argue that a role-playing game (or perhaps any game in general) is essentially about wish-fulfilment for the player, and everything should indeed be about you for the game to serve it's purpose. So yeah, guess it depends on how you see things.

The only time I ever felt mildly "uncomfortable" was Anders in DA2 it wasn't that he was gay as I have gay friends in RL and we all go out drinking and clubbing just as I would with my straight friends.It was more the way it was "handled in DA2 which went something like this:

 

 

Varric: Hey Hawke this is Anders the ex Grey Warden with the map of the Deep Roads we need.

Hawke: Hey Anders we need help with our expedition we are in need of your maps of the Deep Roads.

Anders:You seem like a real nice sensitive man I want to hump you into fade touched Oblivion 

Hawke:Woah steady on there you seem like a nice person but your not my type sorry.

Anders: I HATE YOU !!!!! rage rage whine whine stop oppressing me!!!!!

[DisturbedJim83]

Well, I guess all controversy can be eliminated by removing romance and nudity and make sure the story sticks with the game theme, thus avoiding social traps. Add a mod kit and the modding community can step in and do what they do best. Individual gamers can then install whatever mods they want.

 

Everyone is happy in the yellow submarine.

I'm not happy I hate Yellow !!! I want a purple submarine because I am entitled to 1 

[Ncongruous]

[...]
Ironically, what annoys me isn't the inclusion of homosexuals, but the widespread criticism of "but I want to romance xxxxx but s/he only likes boys/girls/elves" and then using mods to force it.

The way I see it, the characters in the game have a certain integrity in their character as written. Like real people, they have their own sexuality and preferences within it. I find using a mod to force a straight character gay or a gay character straight to be FAR more offensive than the inclusion of a gay or trans character... as such an inclusion isn't offensive at all. 
[...]

While on the whole I do agree with your post DavianBurke. I don't find flipping a toggle switch to get a NPC to romance any gender offensive at all. You're enabling a choice that would otherwise be out of reach. Perhaps the person playing doesn't want be constricted into playing a specific way to romance a specific character. Be a force for good. Romance Morrigan or Zevran. Be pure evil and marry Wynne or Allistair. Maybe I'm disconnected from any of the romance characters in this game thus my callow attitude. I still say if it makes the consumer happy by modding it - by all means, mod away.
 
Gender gating content for the sake of writer's intent is hard to follow. Admittedly it's been a while since I've played but when I romanced Casandra - I don't recall any gender specific lines... I may be wrong. I just don't remember her ever defining me as male. It's almost as if the lines were made with gender neutrality in mind. Thematically speaking I don't see any decisive elements of sexuality from Casandra only a driven persona. Maybe the books add more into that? I just don't see why she would be locked in to male romances. Ain't nothing in the chant to say otherwise either.
 
Just to insure everyone hates this post. I vote they do away with romances all together! Focus on other things.
 

I've been away for a while and now I'm back to read how badly this thread has devolved yet again. Is that "Errationus" guy the only sane person left? The story, and the "moral choices" are the least of my worries. Let's just get the control scheme fixed. I'm not that far along in this game. If I can get along in the game - ONLY after the controls are fixed - THEN, I'll decide if it's incompatible with my morality. This is again, the PC Community Concerns thread. If it's an universal problem with storylines/direction? Then there's nothing here for you. Boooware decided upon that area years ago. Try to be realistic...and helpful. Also try to see the real reason for this thread. Thank you.

There is no one sane in this thread anymore. On point or not.

[Dubya75]

While on the whole I do agree with your post DavianBurke. I don't find flipping a toggle switch to get a NPC to romance any gender offensive at all. You're enabling a choice that would otherwise be out of reach. Perhaps the person playing doesn't want be constricted into playing a specific way to romance a specific character. Be a force for good. Romance Morrigan or Zevran. Be pure evil and marry Wynne or Allistair. Maybe I'm disconnected from any of the romance characters in this game thus my callow attitude. I still say if it makes the consumer happy by modding it - by all means, mod away.

 

Gender gating content for the sake of writer's intent is hard to follow. Admittedly it's been a while since I've played but when I romanced Casandra and I don't recall any gender specific lines... I may be wrong. I just don't remember her ever addressing me as a male. It's almost as if the lines were made with gender neutrality in mind. Thematically speaking I don't see any decisive elements of sexuality from Casandra only a driven persona. Maybe the books add more into that? I just don't see why she would be locked in to male romances. Ain't nothing in the chant to say otherwise either.

 

Just to insure everyone hates this post. I vote they do away with romances all together! Focus on other things.

 

Not that this has ANYTHING to do with this thread, but I would say that I think Bioware made a grave mistake to limit romance options in DAI. A **** storm was always going to be the result.

I don't care too much for romancing fictional characters, but as a straight male character, my choices are very limited.

 

Looking back, in DAO you could romance anyone that was romance-able, no matter what gender or race. And no-one complained. Everyone was happy.

[edit] Correction, romances were still limited, but it "felt" more open and natural.

 

They either need to "go back to formula" so to speak, or scrap the entire romancing aspect....

 

OR (and here is the controversial part) - 

 

Bioware as a company needs to grow a spine and make the game THEY want to make, no matter if it is going to be politically correct or not.

DAI is the luke-warm nothingness that it is because the people at Bioware have no vision of their own, apparently.

They simply bend to the will of the masses, swaying this side and that side, trying to appease everyone and in the process not pleasing anyone.

 

And this I believe to be the ROOT of the problems with this series' gradual degradation - the developers have lost their vision. They are owned by EA and they have to produce mainstream content in order to keep their jobs.

Modifié par Dubya75, 10 mars 2015 - 11:38 .

[vetlet]

 

Looking back, in DAO you could romance anyone that was romance-able, no matter what gender or race. And no-one complained. Everyone was happy.

 

They either need to "go back to formula" so to speak, or scrap the entire romancing aspect....oh wait, DA4 will be an MMO, so I guess it does not really matter.

 

Romances were not limited by race, but

Morrigan was male only

Leliana/Zevran  male/female

Alistair: female only

 

Rest of them non-romancable.

 

What bugged me about DA2 is that you couldn't be nice to your companions without them starting to hit on you.

[Dubya75]

Romances were not limited by race, but

Morrigan was male only

Leliana/Zevran  male/female

Alistair: female only

 

Rest of them non-romancable.

 

What bugged me about DA2 is that you couldn't be nice to your companions without them starting to hit on you.

 

Ok fair enough, that is indeed true. But somehow it FELT much more open. Perhaps because they did not put so much emphasis on it.

[Invisible Man]

Ok fair enough, that is indeed true. But somehow it FELT much more open. Perhaps because they did not put so much emphasis on it.

or you used mods...

[Dubya75]

or you used mods...

 

Or I used mods? For what, romance options? Ummmm, no.

I would indulge in the occasional romance in Dragon Age games, but only for giggles or achieving the badge.

Generally, I care very little for it.

[vetlet]

yes, somehow the romance options in DA:O seemed to progress more naturally, to me. Yes, you could cheat it with the feastday gifts, but character-specific gifts you found or could buy were a good touch.