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That's a valid point. Yet here you are, as well. ...and I never said this place was mediocre. It's too effen ludicrous for common mediocrity. This is the only forum I've been in that is almost a satire of itself.
BSN is what happens when something goes from sanity through insanity and out the other side.
You can't describe it. It can only be experienced.
Except this isn't the BSN anymore, not really. And I never claimed that mediocrity wasn't worth my time, so here I am indeed 
They made the patch 5/6 beta test as a joke to appease you all, not because they took anything seriously. If they were serious they would have had Beta testers last year(oh yes they did) and choose to release the game as it is. If you all think testing a patch on a game that was out for 3 months would be taken seriously then I just really wonder how starry eyed and where you buy these rose colored glasses are at. The recent beta test was a way for Bioware to get you all to be quiet for a bit. And it is a patch for game, not even a true Beta test. I just do not understand you all.
@archerwarden:
It should work for both--for what it is. I (and others) tested it pretty thoroughly with an archer and a warr, and it worked, for what it is. It's not a true "autoattack" in the sense that we PC players understand autoattack (ie, always on, right-click/hotkey attack, keep attacking until asked otherwise, like in DA:O), and you have to re-"auto"attack for each enemy, and again if you use an ability. It takes a bit of getting used to. It does feel slow in comparison, because you need to reapply "autoattack" every time you use another ability. (I know. Don't ask, I have no idea. Attempts to delineate what we mean by "auto" attack seem to be going over someone's head--or it just needs to be coded in stages. I have no idea).
Since the release has happened, I'm no longer under NDA for these specifics, so for archers:
Archers in particular were a focus, because we also found that archers behaved slightly strangely, specifically, compared to the melee mob and mages. It is actually pretty smooth (once you get used to it with them) but only if you don't stand on an item (logs, large rocks, etc), which did confuse pathing. No idea if that was fixed before push. The hesitation is usually a Line-of-sight or pathing problem, when you're dealing with archers. Melees don't have the same problems, because if they're out of reach and on auto, they just move-to the enemy. Archers, however, have to correct their LOS, and sometimes get a bit flummoxed because they sometimes attempt a move-to at the same time as they look for a better LOS (mine would turn and face me, kinda sim-like, as if to say "whaaaaa?' when that happened). Besides that, issue, I actually preferred the autohotkey for my archer compared to what it was before (I played an archer through in P3).
It's still not completely satisfactory, though.
The patches were moving towards a better KB&M scheme (although I agree: tac cam is a lost cause), which has fed my frustration this morning, because I'm very close to "out" with this "let's gouge Australians again for no reason other than they're fun to bugger" pricing.
@Errie: they done gone killed my optimism. 
@Errie: they done gone killed my optimism.
I'm surprised it took that long. My optimism was stillborn.
Yeah, I'm a bit stumped on the secrecy, myself, but I also do understand the wait. I think.
I will say I liked it. But I can't say why, because I have no idea what will be changed. (Good lord that's a PITA, though. I really wanted to tell people OMG Mosaic's fixed. That's kinda.... sad, really. I need a life.
I would also hope that it's a freebie, especially since patch 2 broke so many people's faces (in a way the shaders can't fix). But no idea, either way. I just think it would be a nice gesture, considering. *invokes Ubisoft's latest example*
@Sartoz re: patch folder/DLC/mod implementation: I can't say I disagree. Having said that... consoles don't have that issue, right?
Well, I'm glad someone understands the wait. I look at this new DLC for bucks and it's supposedly huge and significant and tastes like butter. Yet, this Emporium that wasn't all that in DA2 is now some masterstroke of content that needs extra time.
Forgive me, good madam, my incredulity.
As to gestures, the way people are slavering over this new-same'ol-content, Biomass be smell'n the dollars now.
C'mon - this game is so difficult to fix they've flummoxed modders from doing it. Out of the goodness of their hearts no doubt.
Odd... I keep hearing the word 'debacle' being shouted from somewhere deep, deep in the back of my head....
Beta testers especially volunteer ones are not in the food chain, there was nothing you signed in the NDA that said "Bioware will notify you of impending releases or changes". If you wanted that, then apply to be a paid employee. Not sure why you all think they or anyone have to be nice about stuff.
You're really not sure?
I can think of many reasons why a company would want to be nice to beta testers, even if there was no "contractual obligation" to do so. Decency? That one probably doesn't grab you, given your posts. So how about good business? People who beta test tend to be some of the most excited about your game. Don't you want them to remain excited and tell their friends instead of getting mad, posting on your board and leaving?
In fact, I'd turn the question around on you: what possible reason could a company have for not being nice to it's beta testers, especially when being nice involves a post somewhere thanking them for their time and telling them when the process is wrapping up? That could take up to... three minutes or so.
Players are a part of the process... arguably the most important part: they are the customer. Your idea that only employees get to really own the game is exactly backwards. From a business perspective, an average game with millions of customers is a win for everyone, a marvelously crafted masterpiece with no customers is a waste of hard drive space.
New DLC = $14.95
http://www.mmorpg.co...m/thread/429524
From the above url:
"Jaws of Hakkon will reveal the fate of the last Inquisitor and the powerful dragon he hunted. The new content expands the land of Thedas with a massive new playable area covered in mountains and lush forests, where danger lurks in the shadowy undergrowth. As players explore the vertical landscape and dense wilderness fighting off vicious enemies, they will collect legendary armor and weapons before unearthing an ancient secret that could destroy the world"
Edit: One commentator said :
"..They aren't even trying anymore are they? Main Campaign..save the world. First DLC... save the world. Gee I wonder what the second DLC will be about. Sure hope it's about saving the world."
This post made my day.
Not only does it appear they're not trying in the plot. But even the way this whole piece is worded just seems so.. scripted, "where danger lurks in the shadowy undergrowth" I mean, come on! Is this meant to entice me?
I would not be surprised (but would absolutely love) if this DLC contains another companion named Javiq, who turns out is the original inquisitor. And has had his life preserved in a magical time barrier that you get to break free (by scouring the map for tomes to unlock the evil spell) as he aids you in taking down Coreaperus - his arch rival!
Yea, can't wait.
Snip
------
C'mon - this game is so difficult to fix they've flummoxed modders from doing it. Out of the goodness of their hearts no doubt.
Snip
According to Mike's tweets, Bio did it for the COOL factor.
@ Bethgael
Since you were one of the Beta Testers may I ask a question on the auto-attack? Is it working just for melee? Or archer too? Because I tried it and my archer seemed to hesitate and get confused when one or more enemy were in sight.
It is working as intended, not how I and several others think it needs to work. Ranged does take too long to choose a target. Better if you select manually then key auto attack and, it does disengage when you switch targets (either to cast a AoE or the target dies.) so not ideal.
They made the patch 5/6 beta test as a joke to appease you all, not because they took anything seriously. If they were serious they would have had Beta testers last year(oh yes they did) and choose to release the game as it is. If you all think testing a patch on a game that was out for 3 months would be taken seriously then I just really wonder how starry eyed and where you buy these rose colored glasses are at. The recent beta test was a way for Bioware to get you all to be quiet for a bit. And it is a patch for game, not even a true Beta test. I just do not understand you all.
You make a lot of assumptions in this post and it's quite clear that you absolutely believe that, given your experience, you are right about what you say. So let's agree to that then. You are correct.
That means that Bioware opened the latest beta test as a sop to unhappy players in an effort to appease them. What people are saying, then, is that far from being appeased, they feel alienated in the way it was handled. If Bioware's intent was as you say, it failed to achieve that goal and, in fact, ended up raising hopes only to dash them. So, nice work Bioware, in your opinion?
I must say that the Rift video looks pretty good, but so does ES Online.
As a side note I do not think BW has the skills or knowledge to block mods. They can't even walk and chew gum!
4 months to recognize more than 2 mouse buttons? Forget about hairstyles!
I will get back to Neverwinter till POE arrives!
Maintain the Rage!
Thank you for explaining Bethgael. That's what has been happening, I've been leap shotting onto logs, rocks-anything high and using auto-attack. Sometimes it looks clear but maybe its not a clean line. I assumed it was a 'normal' auto-attack. I'll take your advice when playing next time@archerwarden:
It should work for both--for what it is. I (and others) tested it pretty thoroughly with an archer and a warr, and it worked, for what it is. It's not a true "autoattack" in the sense that we PC players understand autoattack (ie, always on, right-click/hotkey attack, keep attacking until asked otherwise, like in DA:O), and you have to re-"auto"attack for each enemy, and again if you use an ability. It takes a bit of getting used to. It does feel slow in comparison, because you need to reapply "autoattack" every time you use another ability. (I know. Don't ask, I have no idea. Attempts to delineate what we mean by "auto" attack seem to be going over someone's head--or it just needs to be coded in stages. I have no idea).
Since the release has happened, I'm no longer under NDA for these specifics, so for archers:
Archers in particular were a focus, because we also found that archers behaved slightly strangely, specifically, compared to the melee mob and mages. It is actually pretty smooth (once you get used to it with them) but only if you don't stand on an item (logs, large rocks, etc), which did confuse pathing. No idea if that was fixed before push. The hesitation is usually a Line-of-sight or pathing problem, when you're dealing with archers. Melees don't have the same problems, because if they're out of reach and on auto, they just move-to the enemy. Archers, however, have to correct their LOS, and sometimes get a bit flummoxed because they sometimes attempt a move-to at the same time as they look for a better LOS (mine would turn and face me, kinda sim-like, as if to say "whaaaaa?' when that happened). Besides that, issue, I actually preferred the autohotkey for my archer compared to what it was before (I played an archer through in P3).
It's still not completely satisfactory, though.
The patches were moving towards a better KB&M scheme (although I agree: tac cam is a lost cause), which has fed my frustration this morning, because I'm very close to "out" with this "let's gouge Australians again for no reason other than they're fun to bugger" pricing.
@Errie: they done gone killed my optimism.
You're really not sure?
I can think of many reasons why a company would want to be nice to beta testers, even if there was no "contractual obligation" to do so. Decency? That one probably doesn't grab you, given your posts. So how about good business?
It is good business, it's cheaper! and it's good PR, why wouldn't EA go for it!?
From a business perspective, an average game with millions of customers is a win for everyone, a marvelously crafted masterpiece with no customers is a waste of hard drive space.
This is exactly what is wrong with the industry these days. Kickstarter is almost the future for gaming now. And shows exactly how crafting a masterpiece can be more beneficial in the long run than pumping out overhyped sellout, lens flare dubstep war zombies 8 every year.
No, nothing does.
But in an effort to appease the PC community, they started the beta programme. Being rude kinda flummoxes that, doesn't it?
They don't have to be nice, no. But it's pretty counterproductive to their apparent goal: appease the masses, churn out content for $? Nothing wrong with making money, at all, but you don't make money by alienating your customers. And testers are not only your customers (ie, paid for the game) but they're trying to help the company make their money.
Forget how we feel, just for a sec: "not nice" = "pretty bloody stupid".
And I don't remember Canadians being "not nice".
I don't wanna sound like a d!ck here, but it should really come as no surprise to anyone that the corporate entity of EA and its lackey Bioware have nothing but contempt for their customers. We're people in the pejorative sense, just cash-flow and they'll blather whatever it takes to keep that flow cashing out. All the creative passion in the world stops at the bottom line. There's a very important distinction that needs to be made here:
We are not collaborators - not when we play the game, not by participating here, not at the cons, not on Twitter, not by writing fan fiction, cosplaying, or cheering any of the devs/writers/artists/janitors on - not even when we beta-test. We are not their friends. Our opinions mean precisely nothing to them. The only opinion that matters to them comes from the name on their cheques.
This isn't 'evil' or 'bad' or any nonsense like that. The people who make the games are merely employees. They're not in charge. They're lackeys. They do what they can within the confines of the microbial bureaucratic nonsense that allows the number crunchers to make the actual choices. They gotta eat. Michelangelo had to paint over his wee-wees to appease a Pope. 'Art for art's sake' means you frelling starve. Check out how many stinkin' Medicis are in European religious art if you don't believe me. If you knew, you'd realize just how much of that 'classic art' was only business.
To this corporation and its stockholders we are barely sentient receptacles they crap in to expect money out of - everything else, including the 'our beloved and awesome fans' horsecrap - is entirely PR, spin, marketing and nothing more. We can delude ourselves all we like in thinking we're participating and are important to the process. We simply aren't - save in when and where we spend - and you can believe they know more about how to trick you into doing that than you know how to prevent it.
It's actually frighteningly easy and they hate it: stop giving them money. We really are getting what we pay for - and that's a damn shame.
I must say that the Rift video looks pretty good, but so does ES Online.
As a side note I do not think BW has the skills or knowledge to block mods. They can't even walk and chew gum!
4 months to recognize more than 2 mouse buttons? Forget about hairstyles!
I will get back to Neverwinter till POE arrives!
Maintain the Rage!
Yeah, now go compare the official Rift trailers with game play videos of that content - it's identical. Why because the devs actually play the game, those videos are of the devs playing with real players - you know as friends, live on the big servers jsut like you see it when you play the game. If you run across videos with a mage named Shadaei or a rogue named Kadeth in Conquest, those are me with the other testers and, the devs playing the game.
Hair? Yeah Rift has hair, plenty of it. and a customizeable UI built for a PC thank you.
Thank you DarkAmarnth1966.It is working as intended, not how I and several others think it needs to work. Ranged does take too long to choose a target. Better if you select manually then key auto attack and, it does disengage when you switch targets (either to cast a AoE or the target dies.) so not ideal.
Thank you for explaining Bethgael. That's what has been happening, I've been leap shotting onto logs, rocks-anything high and using auto-attack. Sometimes it looks clear but maybe its not a clean line. I assumed it was a 'normal' auto-attack. I'll take your advice when playing next time
Yeah,I really don't think they understand though.
And also a BIG THANK YOU (and to the other beta testers) for making the game a bit better. Really do appreciate your time and work that you all have taken to try and fix this mess.
Thank you.
I found "from above" on a wall or sheer cliff was usually okay. Logs and other static items higher than trip-over-it height could cause problems. Flat rocks that were on a ground surface (like the small rocks on the ice in the tutorial level) were treated by the archer the same as "uneven ground"--pretty much okay, 95% of the time.
It means you have to be more picky when applying the "from above" skill, too. Either attack the old way or watch what you jump to, or it doesn't apply.
Except this isn't the BSN anymore, not really. And I never claimed that mediocrity wasn't worth my time, so here I am indeed
Shall we dance on this little isle in the Sea of Madness?
Shall we dance on this little isle in the Sea of Madness?
Irish or Scots? I expect kilts.
Mmmmm.... kiiiilts.... wet frocks....
Wait. Out loud. Sorry.
According to Mike's tweets, Bio did it for the COOL factor.
Oh, well - worth every last cent then.
I must be getting old, Sartoz - in my day, "cool" was the exact opposite of "shite".
I suppose the times be a-changin'...
Irish or Scots? I expect kilts.
Mmmmm.... kiiiilts.... wet frocks....
Wait. Out loud. Sorry.
Irish or Scots? Why not both?
Ne'er apologize fer appreciatin' kilts. Fir Real chaitheamh sciortaí!
It is working as intended, not how I and several others think it needs to work. Ranged does take too long to choose a target. Better if you select manually then key auto attack and, it does disengage when you switch targets (either to cast a AoE or the target dies.) so not ideal.
Can someone please explain to me why Bioware simply does not fix this thing?
What's the big freaking deal? They forgot how make games or what? This boggles my mind.
6 patches in and still not ideal AUTO ATTACK!
I've been intently following this thread for a couple months now to track the PC patch progress.
I own the PC version of DA:I; but, have elected to not install it yet.
I'm still waiting for the fixed PC keyboard & mouse controls - I hear they are really bad... game-breaking bad.
I find it shocking considering how awesome they were in DA:2! : ). Yes, I'm one of the very few people who actually loved DA:2 (although DA:O was vastly superior)
Is the kb/m controls the last deal breaker before I should dive into the game for the virgin, unspoiled (by bugs) experience?
I'm in no rush. I elected to start playing Skyrim in the interim - I hear that could last 100+ hours or so : )
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