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PC Community Concerns


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#17226
Sylveria_Relden

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LOL and don't forget EA's executive Mr Whats-his-face who are under the impression their games are too complicated and we are all dribbling isiots. He may not know how to use a KB&M, so surely no one else knows how to either. Because he gets the biggest paycheck after all, so it makes perfect sense. 

 

It only stands to reason just how "out of touch" with their customers they really are. If they paid attention to the feedback they've been given this would not be the case. Ignoring community feedback and just hiding out on Twitter and other social media venues to hype advertisement only drives the wedge even further.

 

Want to satisfy your customers? How about actually interacting with them and communicating?

 

(reminds me of Romney's 47% ignorance)


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#17227
Sartoz

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YES!!! After the Hinterlands, the gameflow gets absurdly broken by the wartable. I have no interest going beyond the Hinterlands with another character because the game is already hampered with woeful control issues, time-lapsed missions (WHY? Okay, I get five minutes, but 3 hours? Really? I have to wait 3 hours for some side mission to occur to get enough (Sheez, I already forgot what its called) of whatever to advance the plot? Yeah... that's a homerun. More like a foul ball. However, I do remember all the fun I had getting the Elves to join me after confronting the Lady or Branka's dilemma about the Forge or Marjorie hunting Leliana or... well, you get the picture. I basically gathered herbs and metals to craft crap that I couldn't compare to what the NPC is wearing right now without having to enter and exit crafting menus. But hey! I did calm my OCD by collecting all the epics and putting them in storage... in beta... patch something because it wasn't included at release. Shall I bang on?

LOL.

 

You know, a FBI profiler would think through DAI's Creative Director's eyes and say " 3 hours hu? Oh, wait! I know... only a truly diabolic mind would come up with this idea. It's filler time!..free roots, free exploration... free treasure hunting!... I give you choices!!! ... find those never ending Rings..".

 

PS: I have not played the game after patch 5 so maybe those ubiquitus Rings have been curbed?  Anyone?



#17228
Sartoz

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The product is in working order, although imperfect.   I have no problems using the tactical view to position my characters during combat, and I find using the "W" key easier than using a mouse for exploration.

 

How can one call the game a turd, but not hate the game?

 

Hmm... I'm unsure why the use of the word "hate" is appropriate.  The word "hate", from my perspective ,has a disposition towards violence. A much better word to use is dislike.

 

I don't like the counter-intuitive KB+M controls available with the PC version of the game.... the excessive mouse-clicks and menu operations required to craft an item.. for the simple reason I've used better one(s).  I don't like the grinding = monotonous activity, the sonar ping, the same animation when picking up an item... etc.

 

Having said this, I do not hate the game. I simply dislike portions of it.  My original hand cramps from the default key controls made me think about the "ediot" that came up with this design.

 

All PC UI interface designers will give themselves and their intended users a healthy benefit from the study of Electromyography and Kinesioligy.

 

A study called :

Epidemiology of musculoskeletal disorders among computer users: lesson learned from the role of posture and keyboard use.

 

source: http://www.jelectrom...3/abstract?cc=y

 

I found it interesting.


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#17229
Sartoz

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I dunno about that Cyan.

 

There's one coming out in May (according to my pre-order @ Amazon) that at least looks like it will set the bar for future crpg's. :?

 

According to CDPR's marketing it will be doing all the things I expected Bioware's games should have been doing after Origins.

 

Unless EA steps in to salvage their investment in Bioware, I don't see anything worth my money coming from there again.

 

Of course that would mean the people who thought that DA2, DA:I, and the ending to ME3 were such great ideas ... the same yes-men (and women) and EA sycophants that EA put in charge there would to have to be replaced by people who actually know how to make great games and not just suck-up to EA.

 

 ... yeah, I don't see that happening either.

 

Time will tell of course, but so far it's looking like ...

 

The King is dead, long live the new King. :whistle:

You must admit that the current state of affairs at the Bio Studio is a direct result of EA "forceful meddling"... the reason that many of the original team left. As such, I personally doubt that EA's senior mgt will make a U-turn on game development policy. 

 

It all depends on the "numbers". If revenue is deemed to be sufficient, no change is required. That, I'm afraid, is business 101 which was re-inforced by a Bio dev that made a post regarding DAI fixes/changes very early after game launch.

 

In the post, Bio will ask themselves three questions:

1. How much time wil it take?

2. What is the resource cost?

3. What is the value to Bioware?

 

The above is very revealing. Yes?


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#17230
Sartoz

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Yes, the game has piqued my interest.


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#17231
vetlet

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At last Eurogamer, I might have tormented/harassed/pestered the devs for The Witcher to the point they recognised me every time I wandered near their booths.

 

In fairness, first chap asked if I'd ever heard of or played the Witcher games. I asked him if the Pope was Catholic.

 

Not sure what is happening with Cyberpunk. After Wild Hunt gushing, I was like 'So, what about Cyberpunk? what's happening with that?' Answer: 'Don't ask', but the response wasn't a it's under wraps tone, but more of a not progressing as expected tone. Which might be why not much has been see about it, past the reveal.



#17232
Guest_Cyan Griffonclaw_*

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Yes, the game has piqued my interest.

Me too



#17233
Sartoz

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ME2 has some issues with doors not spawning (especially Tali's mission) so save on the Normandy before heading down to any planet. Even restarting the mission doesn't fix the doors not spawning.

Thank for the tip...



#17234
Vash654

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Whats the status on them fixing PC stuff?  are they still working on patches?  or have they forgotten about us



#17235
Amplitudelol

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Whats the status on them fixing PC stuff?  are they still working on patches?  or have they forgotten about us

 

The fix is done, except it was not done by bioware. The name of the fix is Pillars of Eternity and it is made by Obsidian. It wont give your money back, in fact, it will cost you more but you will have one good pc rpg.


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#17236
CatatonicMan

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Whats the status on them fixing PC stuff? are they still working on patches? or have they forgotten about us


Nobody knows.

Personally, I doubt that we'll get any real fixes for the controls. More bandaids at best, nothing at worst.

We're looking at a fundamental design conflict rather than a simple oversight, and as such a fix is unlikely.
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#17237
Captain Wiseass

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Patch 7 is in beta testing right now. No one's said what's in it, though.



#17238
Arne Saknussemm

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Yes, the game has piqued my interest.

Yes! and mine...been watching for news of this for ages...I guess when TW3 is launched they will get on with this in earnest...



#17239
They call me a SpaceCowboy

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I've been keeping up with Windows 10. And I'm sure that EA isn't the only company heading in the direction of forcing people to use controllers- but they're certainly not helping by taking a stand allowing choice either. At least a company like Zenimax does it the right way by making them both available- and I've full confidence they will succeed. Bioware has a long way to go to earn my trust again. I don't have to spend my money with them- and as foolish as I've been in the past to do so, I've since corrected my ways. If they want my money in the future, they'll fix the product they sold which they misadvertised or refund the money I paid for the product- or they'll lose my business. It's really as simple as that.

 

Agreed. I'm not planning on buying anything from Bioware again after this. Someone mentioned boycotting DLC until they fix the controls. I'm not. Boycotting would suggest I'd buy it if something changed.


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#17240
Vash654

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The fix is done, except it was not done by bioware. The name of the fix is Pillars of Eternity and it is made by Obsidian. It wont give your money back, in fact, it will cost you more but you will have one good pc rpg.

hahahah.  I was thinking of maybe getting that game, the funny thing is I will probably play that before I play DAI and ive owned dai since launch...


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#17241
They call me a SpaceCowboy

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Actually, FB3 supports keyboard and mouse quite effectively. I originally was of the same opinion, until someone in Feedback and Suggestions  pointing this out to me:

 

http://guides.gamepr...de.asp?ID=22326

 

Now, what does this say about the Edmonton Studio's PC controls decision?

 

All I saw at first was left stick up, left stick down and so on mapped to keys, which was exactly what Bioware gave us in this game, except for a half hearted attempt at .mouse point and click in the inventory.

 

And then I saw all the mouse controls. heh.

 

Sounds like at some point someone said "You know, it would be simpler, and would save time and money if we just had one interface instead of developing a whole KB&M setup", and that's what they went with.

 

 

To the people who still don't get what the fuss was about:

 

You know, I am pretty much indifferent about the walk toggle. I didn't get the mod,and I've never used the bioware version they eventually patched in. Same with mouse look and the 'hold mouse buttons to move' deal. I don't need them. While I'd like click to move, I'm fine with WASD movement and auto-run. Bioware can put them in or not, it doesn't matter to me.

 

In fact, for the walk toggle, lets say 95% of the PC players were fine with no walk toggle. That puts us in the overwhelming majority, doesn't it?

 

Well, here's the thing. It doesn't matter. 99% of people could be anything from happy to mildly satisfied with the controls as they are. it doesn't change the fact, and yes I mean fact, that the controls are sub-par. They are objectively poor.

 

It doesn't matter that Bioware added a walk toggle and mouse look. It doesn't make the problem all better. This is because the problem isnt a missing walk toggle. The problem is the reason the walk toggle was missing in the first place.

 

The controls are poor, clumsy and awkward because they were designed for a controller, not a mouse and keyboard. A half baked walk toggle, or even a well implemented one doesn't solve the underlying problem. It's a band-aid.

 

And, it's sad to say, this problem cannot be fixed. The developers don't have the time, resources or will to do so. They aren't going to redesign the clumsy inventory or crafting screens. They aren't going to overhaul the controls so that the tac cam is fun and easy to use with a mouse and keyboards. I'm told it isn't even that great on consoles. And no, dear readers, remapping the keys don't solve any of these problems either. how could it? It's not that the buttons are hard to reach. It's that they don't do what you expect regardless of how they are mapped.

 

Does everyone agree that these are problems? No, plainly not, reading Elhanan's posts, but that is irrelevant. Some people will suffer through awkward controls because other aspects of the game are more important to them, and those aspects are very good. Some people will shrug and carry on because the good parts of the game are more important to them, and that's great for them.  Heck, I liked Mass Effect despite the obvious console port. I didn't like mouse look, I didn't like lack of auto run and I didn't like not having more control of the companions. I overlooked all this, same as Elhanan is doing, because I liked the story the devs were telling.So yes, some people are happy with what they got. It doesn't bother them that you have to steer the camera around like it's a character in tac mode. They shrug and carry on.

 

The rest of us, however, are annoyed, frustrated and sick of the controls as provided. The rest of us feel that we've been lied to with the infamous 'made for pc gamers by pc gamers' line. The rest of us are fed up with Bioware and EA, because it's obvious that business as usual for the future of Bioware will be "built by console players for console players but we'll try to sell it to the poor saps still using PC's anyway cause we want their money."

 

They rest of us are not prepared to shrug and carry on, and that's our right.


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#17242
Captain Wiseass

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Does anyone else hear the score from Les Mis?



#17243
DavianBurke

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@ DavianBurke

Not trying to convince anyone here about anything, but it might have helped some people with sim complaints to re-map the keys and practice the Tac-Cam a little; sure helped me. And while I also have concerns which I have voiced before launch, I do not hold Bioware to some false standard concerning a number of subjects. They patched some things that have been helpful, and more appears to be forthcoming; am happy with that.

 

Standards that BioWare themselves advertised, explicitly, by not only releasing a video specifically geared towards pc gamers, but by also name dropping games that set these standards and were released by the same studio, and even named specific features from these games. 

Quit acting like BioWare didn't break any promises by releasing a game that is simply not-as-advertised. 


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#17244
Elhanan

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Standards that BioWare themselves advertised, explicitly, by not only releasing a video specifically geared towards pc gamers, but by also name dropping games that set these standards and were released by the same studio, and even named specific features from these games. 

Quit acting like BioWare didn't break any promises by releasing a game that is simply not-as-advertised.


Not pretending; they did not lie, IMO.

What is not told in the vid, but in a demo is that the PC version is balanced for consoles. This is the reason behind eight quickslots; perhaps other implementations. And I do agree that seems questionable as consoles and PC gamers cannot play together on DA-MP.

#17245
Sylveria_Relden

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Sounds like at some point someone said "You know, it would be simpler, and would save time and money if we just had one interface instead of developing a whole KB&M setup", and that's what they went with.

 

Yep. That's exactly how it appears. And they won't "fix" it because they know damn well they got caught with their pants down and can't fix it. They hardcoded it for controllers, layered it with an emulation layer for other input devices (remap button "A" to key "1", Axis "1-1" to key "W", etc.) and that's exactly why it feels sluggish, non-responsive at times and you can't change the mapping for certain things, etc.

 

In not-so-eloquent terms- it's a candy-coated turd... err I mean half-baked console port.


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#17246
Morroian

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The controls are poor, clumsy and awkward because they were designed for a controller, not a mouse and keyboard. A half baked walk toggle, or even a well implemented one doesn't solve the underlying problem. It's a band-aid.

 

And, it's sad to say, this problem cannot be fixed. The developers don't have the time, resources or will to do so. They aren't going to redesign the clumsy inventory or crafting screens. They aren't going to overhaul the controls so that the tac cam is fun and easy to use with a mouse and keyboards. I'm told it isn't even that great on consoles. And no, dear readers, remapping the keys don't solve any of these problems either. how could it? It's not that the buttons are hard to reach. It's that they don't do what you expect regardless of how they are mapped.

 

Does everyone agree that these are problems? No, plainly not, reading Elhanan's posts, but that is irrelevant. Some people will suffer through awkward controls because other aspects of the game are more important to them, and those aspects are very good. Some people will shrug and carry on because the good parts of the game are more important to them, and that's great for them.  Heck, I liked Mass Effect despite the obvious console port. I didn't like mouse look, I didn't like lack of auto run and I didn't like not having more control of the companions. I overlooked all this, same as Elhanan is doing, because I liked the story the devs were telling.So yes, some people are happy with what they got. It doesn't bother them that you have to steer the camera around like it's a character in tac mode. They shrug and carry on.

 

The rest of us, however, are annoyed, frustrated and sick of the controls as provided. The rest of us feel that we've been lied to with the infamous 'made for pc gamers by pc gamers' line. The rest of us are fed up with Bioware and EA, because it's obvious that business as usual for the future of Bioware will be "built by console players for console players but we'll try to sell it to the poor saps still using PC's anyway cause we want their money."

 

They rest of us are not prepared to shrug and carry on, and that's our right.

 

Well said and spot on. I agree that the controls won't ever be fixed because there are clearly fundamental issues or conflicts with the design. And yes those that don't don;t think the controls are an issue are clearly just managing despite the controls.

 

As to your last point I'll be kind to Laidlaw and say that I don't regard the game as a console port just one which was oriented toward using a controller even on PC. But it is a clear and huge failure of project management not to have put in place a proper control scheme for KB&M considering how many people were going to play it on PC. Plus I will say that the made for PC video is still very misleading and disingenuous even if its not outright lies, and Laidlaw was guilty of misleading marketing speak with DA2 as well so its become a habit with him. In principle I agree that enoughs enough and BW has to change.


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#17247
SeventyOne

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Not pretending; they did not lie, IMO.

What is not told in the vid, but in a demo is that the PC version is balanced for consoles. This is the reason behind eight quickslots; perhaps other implementations. And I do agree that seems questionable as consoles and PC gamers cannot play together on DA-MP.

 

Yeah, the John Boorman's merlin ignore-happy dude is technically correct (The best kind of correct).

 

They have not lied.

They did told you about their willingness to make DA:I a console friendly product without telling you that it would be at the expense of basic PC UI functionality and tac combat. They never told you that for this game to be ok you had to plug a gamepad.

They have not lied, they just did not tell you the whole truth and all those old-Bioware fans assumed things. And assumed wrong.

They made this game aiming for wallets and not to please that marginal group of their fans. And the game succeded. As i stated before it is an ok game game for the casual gamer (pc or console) that plays well and it is interesting.

Not a GotY, imho, but not a failure either.

But as a great party based tac battle RPG well... lets say there are much better games out there and some of them were made by a company with the name of Bioware.

Also, it is not fair to compare the Witcher games with DA:I. The Witcher is an action-based single person RPG while DA:I is a party based action something RPG, they are not the same.



#17248
Zinho73

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Well said and spot on. I agree that the controls won't ever be fixed because there are clearly fundamental issues or conflicts with the design. And yes those that don't don;t think the controls are an issue are clearly just managing despite the controls.

 

As to your last point I'll be kind to Laidlaw and say that I don't regard the game as a console port just one which was oriented toward using a controller even on PC. But it is a clear and huge failure of project management not to have put in place a proper control scheme for KB&M considering how many people were going to play it on PC. Plus I will say that the made for PC video is still very misleading and disingenuous even if its not outright lies, and Laidlaw was guilty of misleading marketing speak with DA2 as well so its become a habit with him. In principle I agree that enoughs enough and BW has to change.

It is a port because the problem is not just with the controls. The menu interface is terrible.

Well, you can argue that it is atrocious because they expect you to use the controller all the time. But, still... I was always under the impression that I was playing a console game.



#17249
Dubya75

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Standards that BioWare themselves advertised, explicitly, by not only releasing a video specifically geared towards pc gamers, but by also name dropping games that set these standards and were released by the same studio, and even named specific features from these games. 

Quit acting like BioWare didn't break any promises by releasing a game that is simply not-as-advertised. 

 

Not to mention that if you look at said video, you will see how cleverly they edited the gameplay footage to NOT show the lack of PC controls.

It was a very deliberate attempt at DECEIVING the consumer.

 

(I'm actually quite surprised they haven't taken the video down by now)


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#17250
voteDC

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  1. Also known as a continuing misrepresentation, a lie by omission occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions.
A lie of omission sounds exactly like what Bioware did when referring to the PC version of Inquisition.

I don't think the lie of omission can be in doubt. What is to me is if it was a deliberate act. I would like to think that it was not.

 

Not to mention that if you look at said video, you will see how cleverly they edited the gameplay footage to NOT show the lack of PC controls.

It was a very deliberate attempt at DECEIVING the consumer.

 

(I'm actually quite surprised they haven't taken the video down by now)

It would be pointless to remove it now. How many people would have copied it to their PC or reposted on another YouTube channel or site.

They know this and realise that taking it down would just create negative press.


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