19127 réponses à ce sujet

[Cl1cka]

first, mostly disappointed customers post in forums, satisfied people play the the game. every single mmo would be dead when the impression a game forum gives would be right. but yeah there are more than the 100 disappointed that i mentioned, i give you that

 

second, to not hate the controls is not the same as to like them. i'm sick of controller optimized menues too, but thats mainly a quality of life feature and not game breaking. skyrim has them, even the witcher has them as a pc only title. its not a matter of if there are controler ui's, just how they are made. and there is definitly room for improvement in da:i, but dont expect a full mouse and keyboard optimized ui like in divinity original sin (sadly). thats just reality nowadays, and with better overview and a few quality of life features it would be totally fine and playable. when you are used to mmo ui's even origins had a really bad ui (and was massively critizised when it was released too)

The difference is MMO's get out and nobody expects them to be perfect, so they listen to feedback and actually implement. Take SWTOR for example - how different it's now compared to when it got out, it's like totally different game, not to mention after the improvements the subscribers doubled to what they had before. And no - most dissatisfied customers don't post on forums, as most of us dont' have spare time. For me this is exception - I have never ever posted on game forums before even if I was so dissatisfied that I returned the game, I just stopped buying. 

In this case I post because it's BW and I loved the company and grew up with their games and am disappointed. That's all.

[Brogan]

The Nav Mesh is still there and the pathfinding still works while in action cam (your followers and other entities still pathfind) so from that aspect point and click movement is possible.  There will be some edge cases that may need to be resolved, such as when you move to a tricky position via WASD/jumping, and then try to issue a move where the pathfinding system isn't properly set up.  Off the top of my head we could just do nothing (can't pathfind, so don't move) which may be confusing.  If it ends up requiring some form of feedback to let the player know or alterations to the nav mesh, then potential knock on costs/effects can start to branch and will also need to be assessed.  Though the messaging may exist in patch notes so no in game work is needed to support it as well.  Things like that.

 

Ah..  I see.  So if it's determined that the branching problem would be significant and the edge cases ongoing after initial testing, is this something that would be worth putting in the game?  Are there any other considerations that would prevent Bioware from approval of this change?

[Brogan]

Well, it's 3:40 in the morning where I'm at as well.  I'm expecting the thread to explode when I get into work...

 

Dude, get some sleep.  All of this can wait.

[Cl1cka]

Off topic anyone knows if you can still get refund if you missed the 24 hours window? I was waiting to see if they intend to improve and optimise the PC gameplay, but don't have much hope after all the posts here.

[Glaso]

The Nav Mesh is still there and the pathfinding still works while in action cam (your followers and other entities still pathfind) so from that aspect point and click movement is possible.  There will be some edge cases that may need to be resolved, such as when you move to a tricky position via WASD/jumping, and then try to issue a move where the pathfinding system isn't properly set up.  Off the top of my head we could just do nothing (can't pathfind, so don't move) which may be confusing.  If it ends up requiring some form of feedback to let the player know or alterations to the nav mesh, then potential knock on costs/effects can start to branch and will also need to be assessed.  Though the messaging may exist in patch notes so no in game work is needed to support it as well.  Things like that.

 

Then the best possible solution would be to "move until blocked". Most of the click to move requests are in relation with looting because you have to be basically on top of the corpse/node to interact, since most of those are reachable in a direct line i don't think that it would cause much pathfinding problems. In combat you're close to your targets anyway.

[Allan Schumacher]

I don't really know where you got your numbers from but oh well, all my components except for the GFX card and SSD are more than a year old. This isn't a monster rig, I'm guessing you're a bit sour because you are experiencing loads of issues. Did you try to format and totally reinstall your OS and game?

 

I appreciate the support and I'm glad the game is working for you, but it's important to remember that (especially with PC gaming) a lot of factors can be at play that can cause issues with the game.  I don't have many issues either (I have had two crashes in my Lets Play over the course of 28 hours or so), but it's important for me to acknowledge that my positive experience doesn't invalidate that that are having a negative time either.

 

(This is what I was trying to say earlier with respect to my experiences with M&KB in development not invalidating the fact that it's still an issue for a lot of people).

[fchopin]

Maybe not necessarily the "best" post you're looking for from a staff member working on the game, but at the very least I do hope you believe that it is a sincere one.
 
Take care.

I do believe you are sincere but I am not really happy that you changed some of the keyboard and mouse options without doing an extensive and thorough testing for long periods.
Did no other beta tester not have any misgivings on the changes? where they all happy with the changes?

[CarnieHeart]

Off topic anyone knows if you can still get refund if you missed the 24 hours window? I was waiting to see if they intend to improve and optimise the PC gameplay, but don't have much hope after all the posts here.

 

Yes, you can.

[Allan Schumacher]

Ah..  I see.  So if it's determined that the branching problem would be significant and the edge cases ongoing after initial testing, is this something that would be worth putting in the game?  Are there any other considerations that would prevent Bioware from approval of this change?

 

It can be yes. Sometimes you're okay with edge cases being unsupported and/or communicated in a low cost way too, though.  So while it may be more involved to have a flashing GUI with localized text string pop up saying "Pathfinding not found" or something, maybe we communicate it in a way via patch notes "we've added this thing, note that if it doesn't work in these conditions here's why" might be a "good enough" for most. 

 

So we wouldn't necessarily be handcuffed, just trying to illustrate how the process may go and some of the things we end up considering.

[Glaso]

I do believe you are sincere but I am not really happy that you changed some of the keyboard and mouse options without doing an extensive and thorough testing for long periods.
Did no other beta tester not have any misgivings on the changes? where they all happy with the changes?

 

I suspect it went this way:

"What do you mean the PC controls suck? We're XXX days from release fixing that would add XX more days. Do you want to get fired? Because that's how you get fired. Oh god, our EA overlords will be pissed and i won't get my bonus. Stfu and get back to work."

[TobyJake]

It dawned on me just now as I was playing on the coast map with all the rocks and climbing/jumping and general exploring.....

.... how the hell is a programmer going to figure out a routine that could handle movement and jumping in a "right click to move" scenario?

It would most likely break the immersion and ability to explore more than using WA SD to move. Given a tradeoff between huge worlds with jumping and climbing, and closed areas with no jumping like other games, I think we see why Bioware went with controller/WASD

They did it in WoW! You don't have to physically move to the target, Just display it. I tested this in Origins earlier today. If you are reasonably close it just allows you to select it. If you are further away you move a bit.

[Allan Schumacher]

I do believe you are sincere but I am not really happy that you changed some of the keyboard and mouse options without doing an extensive and thorough testing for long periods.
Did no other beta tester not have any misgivings on the changes? where they all happy with the changes?

 

It's a fair criticism.  M&KB Controls aren't good enough for you, and it's valid to say "hey maybe you should have spent a bit more time on this across the board, don't you think :|?"

[Allan Schumacher]

Then the best possible solution would be to "move until blocked". Most of the click to move requests are in relation with looting because you have to be basically on top of the corpse/node to interact, since most of those are reachable in a direct line i don't think that it would cause much pathfinding problems. In combat you're close to your targets anyway.

 

 

Unless you're on a different plane with no connection via the nav graph, I wouldn't expect the pathfinding component to be an issue.  Especially since enemies tend to be bound to the nav mesh (for their own pathfinding) and don't tend to end up in places that would meet this edge case anyways.

 

Though Brogan seemed to be speaking on a more "general" click-to-move.  Or so I interpreted, in any case.

[BammBamm]

The difference is MMO's get out and nobody expects them to be perfect, so they listen to feedback and actually implement. Take SWTOR for example - how different it's now compared to when it got out, it's like totally different game, not to mention after the improvements the subscribers doubled to what they had before. And no - most dissatisfied customers don't post on forums, as most of us dont' have spare time. For me this is exception - I have never ever posted on game forums before even if I was so dissatisfied that I returned the game, I just stopped buying. 

In this case I post because it's BW and I loved the company and grew up with their games and am disappointed. That's all.

 

oh the complains in mmos never stop, development in the wrong direction, balancing, bugs, lags, to easy content, to difficult content etc. and i give you that most dissatisfied customers dont post in forums (still way more satisfied customers dont do it too) , but the minority that does it do it with passion, hijacking every thread and posting their "so important" opinion as often as possible.

 

critic is fine, drama is not. just people with absolutly fan blindness would say the game is perfect and there is no reason to improve things, but just absolutely drama queens would say the game is unplayable because of clunky controls and ui, you just have to get used to it. and to expect for example a change from the ui now to a perfect pc standart ui can only result in disappoinment and the drama continues.

[Torc'qua]

I'll just put my specs here as a comparison for people, as I have had 0 crashes and 0 gamebreaking bugs so far in my first 20 hours.

 

I7 3770K @ 4.7Ghz

Asus Maximus V Formula (latest BIOS)

16Gb DDR3 1600Mhz

Nvidia GTX980 (latetst beta drivers installed through nvidia experience application)

Sound blaster Z

512GB Samsung 850 pro

Windows 8.1 Pro (latetst updates)

 

I'm running everything on Ultra and 2x MSAA with a FPS of around 60

 

I have no idea why I have had 0 (literally 0) issues so far, but I hope it helps some people. Ask questions if you want .

 

Best regards

I'm the same with you. 0 crashes, just a brilliant experience. My rig, is pretty much the exact same, albeit having a different motherboard - But pretty much indentical. However I have an Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 27" G-Sync Monitor, with G-Sync enabled of course.

 

Intel i7 4820k @ 3.7Ghz (Stock)

 

Asus Rampage Extreme IV Black Edition (Latest Bios)

 

16GB Corsair Vengeance Pro 2333Mhz

 

EVGA GTX 980 (Current Drivers, not Beta)

 

Kingston HyperX 120GB SSD (OS) and 1TB Western Digital HDD (Data/Games)

 

Windows 8.1 Pro (Latest Updates)

 

The game runs smooth as butter and looks absolutely gorgeous at 1440p.

[jnd0e]

 our EA overlords will be pissed and i won't get my bonus. Stfu and get back to work

[Greetsme]

 I usually try out all the control schemes available if a game offers it).

 

 

 

 

So, you usually try out other control schemes, but sometimes you don't bother, as with DAI?

[BammBamm]

@allan schumacher

 

please take a look at some of the caves in the storm coast. the party ai just refused to follow into the caves, you have to steer them one by one in the cave and in the caves itself there was a lot of buging and teleporting around, especially in tactic mode. experienced this bug in three stormcoast caves, nowhere else

[Allan Schumacher]

@allan schumacher

 

please take a look at some of the caves in the storm coast. the party ai just refused to follow into the caves, you have to steer them one by one in the cave and in the caves itself there was a lot of buging and teleporting around, especially in tactic mode. experienced this bug in three stormcoast caves, nowhere else

 

I'm heading to bed now unfortunately, but if you could please file this off at Answers HQ here it'd help.  It's likely an issue affecting all platforms and those guys help call out issues through helping with triage/prioritizing tasks.

 

Thanks.

[ApocAlypsE007]

Alen

 

If you are here, I would like to suggest something for future games (ME Next and such).

 

If you are going to have Multiplayer in a game, do an OPEN multiplayer beta testing period of at least 1.5 months period before the release of the game. Again I'm bringing the Starcraft 2 example as both the parts had 4-6 months of open beta testing and the games were VERY stable at release, and whole their lifetime (except for 2 periods of UI changes). AFAIK Red Alert 3 also enjoyed a relatively bug free release as it had 3 month open beta period. It wont impact the story and it will ensure the game is working as intended with functional controls.

[Brogan]

Unless you're on a different plane with no connection via the nav graph, I wouldn't expect the pathfinding component to be an issue.  Especially since enemies tend to be bound to the nav mesh (for their own pathfinding) and don't tend to end up in places that would meet this edge case anyways.

 

Though Brogan seemed to be speaking on a more "general" click-to-move.  Or so I interpreted, in any case.

 

Yea, in a general case, however the whole point of it would be for use in combat within the Action Cam.

[fchopin]

That is good news about the walk toggle, at least.

Fixing the walk toggle will not fix the problems we have with keyboard mouse so if that is all that is fixed then it is a waist of time.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

oh the complains in mmos never stop, development in the wrong direction, balancing, bugs, lags, to easy content, to difficult content etc. and i give you that most dissatisfied customers dont post in forums (still way more satisfied customers dont do it too) , but the minority that does it do it with passion, hijacking every thread and posting their "so important" opinion as often as possible.

 

critic is fine, drama is not. just people with absolutly fan blindness would say the game is perfect and there is no reason to improve things, but just absolutely drama queens would say the game is unplayable because of clunky controls and ui, you just have to get used to it. and to expect for example a change from the ui now to a perfect pc standart ui can only result in disappoinment and the drama continues.

when you separate the nerf whining posts on mmo forums from the ones that actually provide feedback, you could understand why EVE is one of the most interesting mmos out there. and why WoW servers are deserted more and more each year. but that's completely different discussion.

 

well... there would be no drama if there was simple answer: yes, we'll try to create usable interface/controls for KB&M or no, it's not possible to change it. if yes - cool, i like DA, i can wait for patch a few months, no problem. no? ok then, since i'm not touching controler with a stick, this is it, i suppose. there is no 'getting used to'. if a product doesn't satisfy me, then i'm off to find another product, the one that does, no point in wasting time, right?

[BammBamm]

 

I'm heading to bed now unfortunately, but if you could please file this off at Answers HQ here it'd help.  It's likely an issue affecting all platforms and those guys help call out issues through helping with triage/prioritizing tasks.

 

Thanks.

 

done and thx, sleep well

[Greetsme]

@allan schumacher

 

​Will we receive further hairstyles, as you would have to admit that the few that came with the game are absolutely terrible.  I have seen better hairstyles in Minecraft.