145 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr_Raider]

beancounter501 wrote...

That would work. But I just dislike having to rely on party buffs. I may not always want Wynne around or I may decide to turn Wynne into an AW warrior as well!

Then give wynne miasma. It good for everyone

[Ako80]

-Jaren- wrote...
Im confused who exactly you're disagreeing with.  I was and still in the mindset that Haste is completely worth the 4 spell cost.  I rarely use Heroic Offense because with my gear and Combat Magic active my attack rating is at 176 with Spell Might.  Lvl 21 currently.  I dont miss the attack penalty from Haste at all.  Haste is made of win.  Pure and simple.

I do agree that it does take a certain build.  Im more of a controller AW than most.  I got Haste and Combat Magic as soon as I hit level 7.  Mostly pop on Blood Wound than go to town Melee style.  I love my AW

I was diagreeing with beancounter about Heroic Offense being a good spell and with you about your remark that every Arcane Warrior should get Haste.
Have you checked out my guide about Arcane Warriors by any chance? I offer various builds that show that you can go multiple ways with an AW.

You got me curious though; how do you know your attack rating, because the character sheet doesn't show it. Did you simply calculate it? Also, I was under the impression that only your magic score contributes to your damage and attack, and I have even tested this a little to confirm it. So are you sure it works that way with spellpower and thus Spellmight?

[mosspit]

IMO, Heroic Offence has a ok duration of 20sec. Thats about the same duration as Glyph of Warding which is another popular def buff spell. It has 10sec cd, cheap in mana cost and scales with Mag (at 50 mag, HO is gonna add ~15atk)
Just because it isnt a sustainable, doesnt make it worthless. It is situational tho. This for AWs if they are lacking in hitrate dept.

Modifié par mosspit, 03 février 2010 - 01:17 .

[beancounter501]

Miasma is ok, but it is not game changing good. Haste is game changing good. My current party is three warriors and Wynne. Which buff do you think is going to be better? Haste or Miasma? You want haste if you kill things by sticking something sharp in it. Even better if you have two mages serving up haste for everyone. Even for your Arcane Warrior Haste + Heroic Offense is +30% dmg +10 to 15 Attack (thats after the -5 attack from Haste). And Haste only hits stamina regen by 2 points. More then easy to overcome through items. Beats Miasma hands down in my book.



My next party is going to three arcane warriors and one other warrior. Lots of fun in that group with double haste, miasma & Heroic Offense for everyone.

[Lakmoots]

I always take Miasma because it is part of a good spell tree. As my AW has no problems casting as many spells as they want, I find paralyse to be very worth it - Mass Paralysis takes too much time, usually.

Because Miasma is a sustainable, it is pretty much a fire and forget spell, whereas a lot of of the Haste chain do not last that long.

However, as people point out, those spells before haste can make a lot of difference to the AWs effectiveness. Even Heroic Deffense is useful for those heavy archer battles.

However, more so than the Miasma chain, the Haste chain is a furious waste of a lot of talent choices.

If you have decided that your AW will not cast spells, then I guess it is a good choice... but why?

Do people realise that essentially, alot of these builds have reduced the AW to simply another type of warrior class that uses sustainables in place of weapon talents?

There is nothing really "wizard" about this...

Why not try a build that uses both? It is really quite easy... all it takes is abit of willpower.

Just don't forget that an Arcane Warrior is a wizard too - and can just as easily be a great one.

[beancounter501]

I agree with what your saying. To be honest, tactics has just as much impact as your spell choices. Limit sustains as much as possible. Nothing wrong with casting Sleep/Horror/Walking Nightmare and then turning on a sustain or two.



That is why I am planning to run three AW. Each one only needs to spend a small portion of their total mana pool on sustains, That allows me to unload a lot of attack spells then turn around and melee the leftovers.



I am not that impressed with the paralysis line. I will take the glyph/sleep line any day over it for CC. The haste line is useful, nothing like boosting your tanks defense with Heroic Defense + Glyph of Warding. Or boosting attack against Reverants or boosting all of your melee toons damage output through haste. A hasted 2 hand warrior can pump out some damage fast.

[mosspit]

On the topic of miasma, ne1 knows which part of it (or even all the effects) that can be resisted?

[beancounter501]

For Miasma the attack/defense debuff has no save. The slow has a physical resistance check..

[mosspit]

Ok thanks. I was wondering about why enemies seemed harder to hit when they resisted Miasma. Guess its just me.

[-Jaren-]

Ako80 wrote...

-Jaren- wrote...
Im confused who exactly you're disagreeing with.  I was and still in the mindset that Haste is completely worth the 4 spell cost.  I rarely use Heroic Offense because with my gear and Combat Magic active my attack rating is at 176 with Spell Might.  Lvl 21 currently.  I dont miss the attack penalty from Haste at all.  Haste is made of win.  Pure and simple.

I do agree that it does take a certain build.  Im more of a controller AW than most.  I got Haste and Combat Magic as soon as I hit level 7.  Mostly pop on Blood Wound than go to town Melee style.  I love my AW

I was diagreeing with beancounter about Heroic Offense being a good spell and with you about your remark that every Arcane Warrior should get Haste.
Have you checked out my guide about Arcane Warriors by any chance? I offer various builds that show that you can go multiple ways with an AW.

You got me curious though; how do you know your attack rating, because the character sheet doesn't show it. Did you simply calculate it? Also, I was under the impression that only your magic score contributes to your damage and attack, and I have even tested this a little to confirm it. So are you sure it works that way with spellpower and thus Spellmight?

Sorry it took so long to reply.  To answer your question yes I read your guide.  Overall I enjoyed it and I think it did a good job laying out some ground work for the newcomers.  I dont however agree with the lack of mention for Wade's Superior Dragonscale set for your Spellsword build.  Yes Dragonscale and not Dragonbone.  Less fatigue for a little less armor?  Yes please.  

Im in the mindset that AW's dont need a healer and hence another buffer.  AW's only need their own buffs.  Obviously Song of Courage is fun but again not needed.  Maybe Im jaded because I never role with a healer but thats why AW's need Haste.  For my current Nightmare run, I focused on getting Miasma, Haste and Combat Magic by level 7.  The early levels were tough but if you pump enough magic your nigh unkillable by level 7.  Miasma, Haste, Blood Dragon Armor = Melee death.  

Totally agree with you in using only Spellweaver.  Best sword in the game hands down for an AW.  But only if you have Fade Wall.  With Cailen's Arms out (Really should have made it War only; someone already mentioned it and Im agreeing) you obviously get a HUGE amount of Mana/Stamina Regen.  Im on Xbox so atm Im rocking +12 mana/stam regen with a nice boost in stamina from Fade Wall and Wade's set.  Not too mention more damage than Cailen's.  

I totally miss-spoke with Spell Might.  Not sure what I was thinking.  No Spell Might does not affect your attack rating.  Only Magic(with CM) and Dex.  My stat sheet shows my attack rating.  Another Xbox thing?

[-Jaren-]

Forgot to put my own take on your Spellsword build. With Spell Might on then casting Fireball, Blood Wound, then Mass Paralysis (In that order) I totally control the battlefield. Even against my pure nuker AW does my spellsword do a better job. Not to mention a helluva lot safer. Plus I pull hate like crazy. My STR heavy Oghren with Nug Crusher has a hard time pulling off hate. Again Wade's Superior Dragonscale set ftw. Less fatigue/More stam = more sustainables

[Ako80]

-Jaren- wrote...
Sorry it took so long to reply.  To answer your question yes I read your guide.  Overall I enjoyed it and I think it did a good job laying out some ground work for the newcomers.  I dont however agree with the lack of mention for Wade's Superior Dragonscale set for your Spellsword build.  Yes Dragonscale and not Dragonbone.  Less fatigue for a little less armor?  Yes please.  

Im in the mindset that AW's dont need a healer and hence another buffer.  AW's only need their own buffs.  Obviously Song of Courage is fun but again not needed.  Maybe Im jaded because I never role with a healer but thats why AW's need Haste.  For my current Nightmare run, I focused on getting Miasma, Haste and Combat Magic by level 7.  The early levels were tough but if you pump enough magic your nigh unkillable by level 7.  Miasma, Haste, Blood Dragon Armor = Melee death.  

Totally agree with you in using only Spellweaver.  Best sword in the game hands down for an AW.  But only if you have Fade Wall.  With Cailen's Arms out (Really should have made it War only; someone already mentioned it and Im agreeing) you obviously get a HUGE amount of Mana/Stamina Regen.  Im on Xbox so atm Im rocking +12 mana/stam regen with a nice boost in stamina from Fade Wall and Wade's set.  Not too mention more damage than Cailen's.  

I totally miss-spoke with Spell Might.  Not sure what I was thinking.  No Spell Might does not affect your attack rating.  Only Magic(with CM) and Dex.  My stat sheet shows my attack rating.  Another Xbox thing?

Good to hear you liked the guide. I agree that wade's Dragonscale armor with Even the Great's mail subbed in for the chest is a very good option for Arcane Warriors because it gives +2 stamina regeneration (PC) as well as some other minor benefits. But I did not recommend for my Spellsword build because there are big downsides as well when compared to a mix&match set! For starters, the gloves and boots are weak when compared to the Gloves of the Legion and either Warden boots or Cailan's greaves. Also, having Evon the Great's equipped will cause you to miss out on the very helpful constitution and spell resistance bonuses that Reaper's Vestments provides.
For these reasons, I have to stick by my view that dragonscale is only worth it when you absolutely need the mana regeneration.

Haste is very, very good and I agree that you should trry to incorporate it into most builds. The trouble is keeping it up with Shimmering Shield running as well. This forces you to equip second best stuff to offset the drain, and untill someone does the math on various setups I'm not convinced it's always best to get Haste.

[-Jaren-]

Ako80 wrote...

-Jaren- wrote...
Sorry it took so long to reply.  To answer your question yes I read your guide.  Overall I enjoyed it and I think it did a good job laying out some ground work for the newcomers.  I dont however agree with the lack of mention for Wade's Superior Dragonscale set for your Spellsword build.  Yes Dragonscale and not Dragonbone.  Less fatigue for a little less armor?  Yes please.  

Im in the mindset that AW's dont need a healer and hence another buffer.  AW's only need their own buffs.  Obviously Song of Courage is fun but again not needed.  Maybe Im jaded because I never role with a healer but thats why AW's need Haste.  For my current Nightmare run, I focused on getting Miasma, Haste and Combat Magic by level 7.  The early levels were tough but if you pump enough magic your nigh unkillable by level 7.  Miasma, Haste, Blood Dragon Armor = Melee death.  

Totally agree with you in using only Spellweaver.  Best sword in the game hands down for an AW.  But only if you have Fade Wall.  With Cailen's Arms out (Really should have made it War only; someone already mentioned it and Im agreeing) you obviously get a HUGE amount of Mana/Stamina Regen.  Im on Xbox so atm Im rocking +12 mana/stam regen with a nice boost in stamina from Fade Wall and Wade's set.  Not too mention more damage than Cailen's.  

I totally miss-spoke with Spell Might.  Not sure what I was thinking.  No Spell Might does not affect your attack rating.  Only Magic(with CM) and Dex.  My stat sheet shows my attack rating.  Another Xbox thing?

Good to hear you liked the guide. I agree that wade's Dragonscale armor with Even the Great's mail subbed in for the chest is a very good option for Arcane Warriors because it gives +2 stamina regeneration (PC) as well as some other minor benefits. But I did not recommend for my Spellsword build because there are big downsides as well when compared to a mix&match set! For starters, the gloves and boots are weak when compared to the Gloves of the Legion and either Warden boots or Cailan's greaves. Also, having Evon the Great's equipped will cause you to miss out on the very helpful constitution and spell resistance bonuses that Reaper's Vestments provides.
For these reasons, I have to stick by my view that dragonscale is only worth it when you absolutely need the mana regeneration.

Haste is very, very good and I agree that you should trry to incorporate it into most builds. The trouble is keeping it up with Shimmering Shield running as well. This forces you to equip second best stuff to offset the drain, and untill someone does the math on various setups I'm not convinced it's always best to get Haste.

I think you may have missed it but I stated that I play on Xbox   So I get +4 mana/stam regen where as you get +2.  Huge difference.  Not too mention holding hate (Im the tank in my build) is alot harder with Reaper's Vestments compared to my Heavy set.  Why I dont need a healer.  Example:  AW's take little damage.  But if you're not holding hate your other melee's cant go all out which is bad.  More hate on the AW makes for a much easier fight overall.  I love being swarmed by a ton of baddies while I and my party go to town.  Ser Cauthrien fight comes to mind.

[beancounter501]

To be honest I really do not understand all the love everyone gives to Shimmering Shield. It is not that great. How many times do you come under elemental attacks? If you are worried about mage attacks put a simple Spell Shield up until you can mana clash them or Fireball or whatever!



Even the physical/mental resists are just so-so. Even with a 100 physical resistance the big nasty boss can STILL knock you down. Let your warrior tank be the tank. A warrior tank backed up by one or two buff spells will always make a better tank then a AW. To me it is simply not worth the massive mana drain and there are far better things your mage could be helping the party out with. Like CC, AOE attacks or haste

[-Jaren-]

beancounter501 wrote...

To be honest I really do not understand all the love everyone gives to Shimmering Shield. It is not that great. How many times do you come under elemental attacks? If you are worried about mage attacks put a simple Spell Shield up until you can mana clash them or Fireball or whatever!

Even the physical/mental resists are just so-so. Even with a 100 physical resistance the big nasty boss can STILL knock you down. Let your warrior tank be the tank. A warrior tank backed up by one or two buff spells will always make a better tank then a AW. To me it is simply not worth the massive mana drain and there are far better things your mage could be helping the party out with. Like CC, AOE attacks or haste

I partly agree with you to a small point but its alot more useful than you might realize.

Some clarification - That 100% physical/mental resist is helping you alot more than you might think.  Most mobs have specials be it the stun of a Shield Bash, Battering Ram (Ogres), or Below the Belt etc.  Those cannot be defended against and thus SS's resists are moot.  What it does help you with are knockdowns of being Shield Bashed among other things.  Shimmering Shield is the best buff in the game next to Combat Magic as far as Im concerned.

Modifié par -Jaren-, 04 février 2010 - 09:37 .

[beancounter501]

It may have cheap upkeep, but the mana drain translates into a massive upkeep cost. It costs -10 Mana every 2 seconds. That is 300 Mana in a sixty second fight. I can think of a LOT of things my Mage could cast for 300 mana that would be a whole lot more useful then some crummy elemental resistance and physical/mental resistance. I still say Spell Shield + Mana Clash will give you a much more reasonable protection level against mages. If you get knocked down - so what. Your wearing armor so it is not like you are going to be instant killed. To me it is a giant waste of mana.



Haste has a much more manageable mana drain of -3. So it is still expensive, but no where near the level of shimmering shield. And it has a serious boost to the whole party, not just one character.

[Mr_Raider]

mosspit wrote...

Ok thanks. I was wondering about why enemies seemed harder to hit when they resisted Miasma. Guess its just me.

In a pinch, sleep line spell #1 is a -5 debuff which is unresistable (disorient?) A cheaper option for single boss fights. As of late, I've become really fond of death hex. Have a mage in the back cast haste, drop death hex on the boss, and watch him get ripped to shreds. If my AW is in the fight, I drop a death cloud on top of myself!

[Mr_Raider]

beancounter501 wrote...

It may have cheap upkeep, but the mana drain translates into a massive upkeep cost. It costs -10 Mana every 2 seconds. That is 300 Mana in a sixty second fight. I can think of a LOT of things my Mage could cast for 300 mana that would be a whole lot more useful then some crummy elemental resistance and physical/mental resistance. I still say Spell Shield + Mana Clash will give you a much more reasonable protection level against mages. If you get knocked down - so what. Your wearing armor so it is not like you are going to be instant killed. To me it is a giant waste of mana.

Haste has a much more manageable mana drain of -3. So it is still expensive, but no where near the level of shimmering shield. And it has a serious boost to the whole party, not just one character.

It's a stepping stone to fade shroud which is da bomb. I personally only turn it on as a last resort, when I see my party is going down fast. In the gaxkang fight, after Alistair went down and my rogue and bear got slaughtered, flipped on SS, and meleed him directly, and slowly whittled him down. The 15 boost to armor is not bad either.

As for haste, you can give it to party member, although I'm very tempted to try a double haste party.

[RangerSG]

As noted, the real point of Shimmering Shield it to get to Fade Shroud (aka, utter invincibility). I'll only use SS a handful of times. But I leave Fade Shroud up as a constant from the time I get it, since all it counts as is an upgrade to Combat Magic.

[beancounter501]

Fade Shroud is awesome and I understand why people take SS to get it. But I am not impressed with SS by iteslf.

[mosspit]

It is just a very good situational spell. For me, it made mid-game easier at a point where enemies scaled together with me and where I cld not get the items I need yet.