280 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordaedil]

I think most people have an issue with the idea of "supporting" officially "respeccing". Let's face it, re-speccing is basically "debugging". It's not done in character, it's done to get yourself out of a clitch.

Well, we had this in NWN1 as well, except then you typed in a code in the console and gave yourself negative experience points.

When the toolset is released, I'll be happy to release a "re-spec" mod for people, which only purpose is actually to de-level your character.

All in a script. It should be doable.

[Neomancipator]

I think it would be nice to respec. I made a mistake specing morrigan while playing through the first time. I speced her as a healer not knowing I would get wynne who comes speced as a healer. in big fights its useful to have 2 healers but I still feel like I did something wrong. I didnt want to come across spoilers or anything like that when I first played through. so I wanted each new character to be a surprise.
I think having the 1 time respec would be nice. if I can change jobs in real life why cant I do it in a game? npc's can change jobs. I think there is a dialogue with one of the merchants that said he used to be something else but now hes a merchant.

[SheffSteel]

You can change jobs in life, but telling people you spent the last five years as a lawyer, when actually you were a garbage collector, will not work for very long.

[Pyrofoxable]

Gameplay =/= Story.



I don't see why Bioware are against this when so far, my mage has received no comments about being an evil blood mage. Your spec has no effect on the story and therefore it's only purpose is for gameplay and most importantly fun. If I'm bored of my CC spec and just want to shoot a fireball, I should be able to. Luckily I can, yay for the PC version.

[AntiGrav1ty]

I'm completely against respeccing. It's not about realism, story or whatever but mainly because it's just so easy to abuse. You don't have to balance ur mainchar and ur party for every situation but just respec to whatever u need for the next fight.

People are goin to abuse the **** out of respeccin and then probably complain about the game being to easy...



But I wouldnt mind skippin the origins. I always liked Dungeon-Be-Gone.

[Greye]

/signed for some kind of respec possibility the next time around. No need to break immersion. Maybe you pay by losing that follower for a stretch of game time while they go and meditate and retrain. Mainly I'd like to be able to skip the tutorial/origin. I've played the mage like six times with characters I ended up not liking for various reasons, or were redundant with one of the mages I ended up getting.

[LethalBlade]

Your respecs have been served:

social.bioware.com/project/469/

Modifié par LethalBlade, 17 novembre 2009 - 11:01 .

[Pompeii69]

I too think a re-specing option would be a good thing, and the mod available wont work for consoles, so an official re-speccing option would be more welcome. Just trying different things out, different combinations of stuff, couldn't this be considered "replayibility" which adds to the game then?

[timtimtimtim...tim]

As stated earlier, by the logic of many previous posters, being able to -pick- talents would ludicrous and ruin immersion, as would customizing your character, why should you have control over how strong or intelligent you are? Those are random traits determined by genetics.



Oh and why the hell can't a mage with high dexterity learn how to pick locks? That ruins immersion, because after all, I should be able to speak to my rogue companions and get some pointers on how to pick a lock? If you want immersion, go with The Elder Scrolls, because theoretically anyone has the potential to become anything if they apply themselves. You wanna be a "rogue" train up your bloody sneaking and lockpicking skill.



Arguing that anything, short of your computer randomly shocking you,"ruins immersion" is ridiculous, after all it's a game, if you want to roleplay a character then roleplay a character how you want to roleplay it, it's all matters of your choice. It's not like respeccing would FORCE your character to learn new skills. And even if it did, you "immersion-ists" would probably pee your pants with sheer joy because it would be a lovely ordeal for your character to go through.



Honestly, you're speaking of a world in which "magic" exists, why is it completely impossible to think that someone could have memories erased, implanted, or fabricated.



Oh and boo hoo, loading screens, tool tips, not being able to craft your own objects, not being able to ride your mabari or get morrigan pregnant, or simply flee and ignore the blight and travel any where you want, those all ruin immersion.



Oh and why doesn't my character need to eat or use the restroom?



Perhaps my rantings digress, but that's merely due to my level of sheer disgust with stupidity.

[Ralsar]

I installed the respeccing mod into my game. It is a long game and I like to be able to change things around when I feel like it. I don't care about realism or "ruining" my game or anything like that. As long as I'm having fun... so be it.

[rmp]

No Bioware game or any single player RPG game I've played has ever let you re-pick the choices you've made at previous level ups (the only exception being NWN/DnD and previous sorceror spells, and that was very limited). Why are so many of you complaining about it now?

[Nintenfan231]

Before saying this, I would like to clarify one thing right away. I don't like the idea that anyone at any time can decide that using a two-hander is not the best option for the coming fight, and instead switch to sword and shield. But, I do think that in a game this new and this full of "invisible" math, a lot of people are going to make a lot of mistakes because skills don't turn out the way they expected.



Therefor I propose a one-time only respec, where the character would go on some kind of quest at the end of which they would meet some kind of specialist who could teach them how to change "jobs" as it were - to switch from say, dual wield spec to archery spec. Gameplay wise, this would essentially be a respec - the player gets to change his attributes and skills to whatever he wants (adjusted for character level and such). Immersion wise, I feel that a quest such as this would not break immersion any more than an NPC asking for your credit card number so you can go to Warden's Keep - especially with how well the folks at BioWare do at storytelling.



I feel that this solution would solve the problems of developers having to plan on people being able to respec before every battle - thus ruining the game for those who don't use an "anytime, anywhere" respec button - but would still give players who somehow screwed up their build a chance to fix it. Making it a one-time-only deal prevents abuse, and having it be tied into a quest prevents immersion breaking.

[preylos]

Yea i am gonna have to agree. I played WoW  faithfully for 3 years and got sick of not being able to see end game content , the constant grinding, etc, etc,  and when i started playing this game it reminded me alot of WoW and because of playing that i feel i was able to understand dragon age right away an dive right in!  I love everything about this game, jus being able play alone, control your whole party, an not depend on anyone else showing up to do a dungeon or quest is great. Its a much better overall experience I just wasnt aware that the hardcore Rpg games were not respec friendly which is all good just wish i would have known that when i first started playing this game.  A respec option wouldn be a bad idea for anyone who wanted to use it enjoy! for those who dont they can keep it hardcore and avoid it like the plague.

[Deathstyk85]

Nassou wrote...

Make a new character. It's not like the origins are extremely long. My 2h warrior has a sword and shield talent I picked by mistake. Now he's in the teens but I'm not complaining cause I screwed up. If you want a different kind of character then make a new one.

and you cant have the "perfect talent build" most of the time, my human noble started out with a point in sword and shield, and i wanted him to be dual wield. nothing i could do about it, but i fealt like there was a wasted point.

and not being able to "completely" customize your other paty members is something they do to make you use more than the same 4 characters all the time i suppose. if you really want to get the most out of them, build on what they have, you get a sword and shield warrior, an archer, a healer, a damage type mage, two hander warriors, and a dw rogue. so you have everything there. if you simply want to turn oen character into a different type of say, warrior, than what he starts out as, then youll have some wasted points there and you wont get as much out of it.
while i see how this makes sense, to have something to allow you to redo one of those "oops" moments when building your talents, i also feel like, youll play the game more than once, or you wont get the full experience it has to offer. so if you want to make a different kind of rogue/warrior/mage then what you had the first time, make a different origin and play it through, thats how i think bioware fealt about it, because it was no doubt something that came up.
plus, i cant think of any other rpg, other than an mmorpg, that allows you to go redo all of your talents or skills on a whim. (i know someone will think of one and go "nuh uh this game let me do that so your stoopid" but theres an exception to every rule so that would be pointless.)

[Rubarack]

rmp wrote...

No Bioware game or any single player RPG game I've played has ever let you re-pick the choices you've made at previous level ups (the only exception being NWN/DnD and previous sorceror spells, and that was very limited). Why are so many of you complaining about it now?

Because this is the first time it's been a problem. Baldurs Gate is based on an open system, you're making informed decisions with close to total data. Kotor and Jade Empire were so easy as to defy any need for a respec, Mass Effect was largely clear enough. Dragon Age is the first game they've done where you need to make tactical decisions based on no information.

[SheffSteel]

If  the problem is a lack of information, surely the solution is getting access to that information.

[Dex1701]

I actually find it kind of funny that so many people say that DA:O is like WoW. The reality is that WoW is like a ton of other RPGs that came before it. Outside of it being a well-polished MMORPG most of WoW's RPG conventions are taken from other games. Blizzard didn't come up with most of it themselves...much of it is made up of tried and true RPG conventions. Heck, if anything I'd say Blizzard took a page or two from Bioware's book when they created WoW.   I could see how younger gamers that haven't played a lot of older RPGs could see DA:O as "being like WoW," but it's really not the case at all.

On-topic, I really don't have an opinion on the re-spec issue. To me it feels like it's only useful if you're really into power gaming, in which case I believe there are community-created mods that allow you to do it.

Modifié par Dex1701, 25 novembre 2009 - 12:22 .

[Invoke_the_Wrath]

WoW is for those who want an easy ass rpg in which you just hit spell hotkeys and download tools to help you be lazy. DAO is meant to be hard as hell and test not only skill, but strategy and wit.



Need I say anymore?

[MerinTB]

Dex1701 wrote...

I actually find it kind of funny that so many people say that DA:O is like WoW. The reality is that WoW is like a ton of other RPGs that came before it. Outside of it being a well-polished MMORPG most of WoW's RPG conventions are taken from other games. Blizzard didn't come up with most of it themselves...much of it is made up of tried and true RPG conventions. Heck, if anything I'd say Blizzard took a page or two from Bioware's book when they created WoW.   I could see how younger gamers that haven't played a lot of older RPGs could see DA:O as "being like WoW," but it's really not the case at all.

On-topic, I really don't have an opinion on the re-spec issue. To me it feels like it's only useful if you're really into power gaming, in which case I believe there are community-created mods that allow you to do it.

Blizzard is the king of copying - sorry, paying homage - to classics.

Warcraft, the original RTS's, were almost identical to Warhammer Fantasy (the miniature game.)

Starcraft is such a hodge-podge of sci-fi, but many of the voices of the characters are clearly imitations (Science Vessel is Mr. Burns, Ghosts are Clint Eastwood, etc.)  I've seen it mentioned many times that Starcraft is pretty much Warhammer 40k.

I usually find "X ripped off Y" arguments ridiculous.  But if you do a little searching you'll see that not only did Warhammer predate Warcraft by about a decade, but the similarities are very striking.  Ripping off?  No.  I'd say influenced by.

Of course, there's all those rumors that Blizzard was trying to get the rights to the Warhammer IP, and when the deal fell through Blizzard went ahead and just changed little things to make their product "original."  Who knows how much truth there is to that.

Blizzard didn't look to Bioware for WoW, it looked to Warcraft, it's own series of RTS games - which were heavily influenced by Warhammer Fantasy.

Bioware is trying desperately to move out from under the Tolkien / D&D shadow of fantasy while still keeping enough of those conventions to be easily accessible to the mainstream.  I think that's a tight-rope not worth walking, and more original concepts like Jade Empire and Mass Effect for OP are a better direction (though, I guess you could argue that chinese martial arts / mysticism AND space sci-fi tropes are rampant in those examples as well . . .)

[MerinTB]

double post

Modifié par MerinTB, 25 novembre 2009 - 06:00 .

[Meshuganah]

I agree that taking talents should be a meaningful choice that you can't go back on.



However, the problem is that many talents have very poor descriptions that don't let you know if they will be worth it, or are outright gimped or broken. For example, I went full lightning thinking only to find that chain lightning is utterly worthless. I wish I could respec to get the cold spells instead (or better yet a patch to fix gimp abilities).

[RevGuthlac]

I for one am very grateful for the respeccing mod, and think BioWare blew it by not including a respec mechanic in the campaign. It would not be hard to RP: a few class-specific trainers scattered around who offer special retraining - pay gold, fade to black, done.



The bottom line is that it's incredibly boring to replay 20 hours of the same storyline (i.e. make a new character) in order to dig yourself out of some bad choices. Or find spell combinations through trial-and-error (20 hours to create a new character to *maybe* discover a new combo??). That's not good business from a company that otherwise has created some very fine entertainment with this game.

[hnh3]

If the problem is a lack of information, surely the solution is getting access to that information.

Or we can just add respecs and those that don't want to use them can just not use them. but more information would definatly be a good thing.

Modifié par hnh3, 25 novembre 2009 - 04:27 .

[Bored Games]

RevGuthlac wrote...

I for one am very grateful for the respeccing mod, and think BioWare blew it by not including a respec mechanic in the campaign. It would not be hard to RP: a few class-specific trainers scattered around who offer special retraining - pay gold, fade to black, done.

The bottom line is that it's incredibly boring to replay 20 hours of the same storyline (i.e. make a new character) in order to dig yourself out of some bad choices. Or find spell combinations through trial-and-error (20 hours to create a new character to *maybe* discover a new combo??). That's not good business from a company that otherwise has created some very fine entertainment with this game.

Talents and spells are all explained enough for you to be aware of potential combinations.  For example morrigans freeze spells will combine well with a rogue as a main character.  What new combos are not self evident? 

[Dex1701]

MerinTB wrote...
Blizzard didn't look to Bioware for WoW, it looked to Warcraft, it's own series of RTS games - which were heavily influenced by Warhammer Fantasy.

Not that I disagree, but we're talking about two different things here.  I was addressing the statement that I see often around here that DA:O is somehow like WoW in terms of gameplay, not setting or content.  I was pointing out that any similarities between DA:O and WoW are a result of having similar anscestry rather than DA:O trying to be like WoW. 

If anything, Bioware was using most of these game mechanics long before Blizzard ever did.  DA:O has more in common with older Bioware games than it does with WoW.  I could see that if someone was only familiar with recent Bioware games (or recent Western RPGs in general) they might think that DA:O was somehow borrowing from WoW, however.

Modifié par Dex1701, 25 novembre 2009 - 07:16 .