280 réponses à ce sujet

[MortalFoil]

Dr. Scarabus wrote...

MortalFoil wrote...

DOODLET0N wrote...

A respec option would take away value from the game. You're supposed to make tactical and well thought out decisions on character development. If you don't like it, just start again and hopefully you aren't too far into the story.

That is a really crappy suggestion. It's like saying your time isn't valuable. Not all of us live in our mom's basement. And no amount of thinking about the skills will ensure that you make the best choice. Text descriptions can only do so much. Most times you need to actually use the skill in battle to see if it's viable. And to do that, you need to make permanent guesses. That is a game play flaw, no matter how you try and put your elitest spin on it. The fact that you can't repec other characters when you get them, in whose talents you had no say, is just salt in the wound.

It's almost as if Bioware frowns upon min-maxing, isn't it?

Respecing, by itself, is not min-maxing. Min-maxing is an entire way to play a game, not a single feature.

Modifié par MortalFoil, 05 novembre 2009 - 01:57 .

[cipher86]

MortalFoil wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Respeccing, on the other hand, would only break immersion if no effort were made to explain it, which I'm certain Bioware could do.

I don't think it needs to be explained. Does the action bar need to be explained? Does the inventory screen need to be explained? Does the fact that every character, no matter where they are on the battlefield, can use items from the same backpack need to be explained? No, of course not.

No, it doesn't NEED to be explained, however those who like to completely lose themselves in a game and not leave their PC chair for days on end would flood the forums with insanity to ensure their misery was heard.  Hence, a non-immersion breaking explanation would be necessary, and besides, it would be a nice touch, wouldn't it?

That aside, casuals should have the option to respec.  Remember folks, this is on consoles as well.  Catering a bit to the casual crowd can only help increase the appeal of the game, which could mean increased sales of the original game as well as current AND future DLC, which is good all around, correct?  So let's not make silly reasons around it and just provide a way to respec!

Modifié par cipher86, 05 novembre 2009 - 01:56 .

[Wolff Laarcen]

Maria Caliban wrote...
The game is like World of Warcraft.

Considering WoW's commercial success, its no surprise.

[MortalFoil]

double post

edit: this forum software seems pretty wonky

Modifié par MortalFoil, 05 novembre 2009 - 01:59 .

[Stanley Woo]

Oh sure, there's lots of things we don't explain and which have no in-game explanation. But that doesn't mean, however, that we are then free to put anything in the game and not explain it. How about we just say that it's a neat idea, as most ideas are, but we didn't feel it necessary to put into the game?

[cipher86]

Stanley, I am certainly enjoying this game, but it could certainly have some features added. Respec is one of them.

Heck, just throw it into the next batch of DLC. We are charged $7 for a storage bin, why not charge $7 for a respec option?

Modifié par cipher86, 05 novembre 2009 - 02:00 .

[MortalFoil]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Oh sure, there's lots of things we don't explain and which have no in-game explanation. But that doesn't mean, however, that we are then free to put anything in the game and not explain it. How about we just say that it's a neat idea, as most ideas are, but we didn't feel it necessary to put into the game?

Many things aren't necessary. But I think you may find that a significant portion of your player base would enjoy the option. I think that is more than worth taking seriously.

[Stanley Woo]

cipher86 wrote...

Stanley, I am certainly enjoying this game, but it could certainly have some features added. Respec is one of them.

Sure, but if we kept adding features, the game would never be finished! We have to draw the line somewhere!

Heck, just throw it into the next batch of DLC. We are charged $7 for a storage bin, why not charge $7 for a respec option?

Personally, I don't think a simple re-spec option is worth $7 and wouldn't sell very well. But stranger things have happened. I guess we'll have to see what the future brings.

[cipher86]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Personally, I don't think a simple re-spec option is worth $7 and wouldn't sell very well. But stranger things have happened. I guess we'll have to see what the future brings.

If you wrap it up in a pretty package ala "Warden's Keep", it sure as hell will.  Heck, there you go!  Make a DLC questline you have to complete in order to respec, and add some lore to boot.  Everyone wins.

[Dr. Scarabus]

MortalFoil wrote...

And no amount of thinking about the skills will ensure that you make the best choice.

Your words. What other way can "the best choice" be construed other than mathematical advantage?

Mind you, I don't think you're a bad person for wanting a respec option. I just don't agree that in a game focused on roleplaying and character development that hidden game mechanics is a bad design choice.

[OctopusRush]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Kamenwati wrote...

Makes the game sound like WoW with all the re-speccing talks.

The game is like World of Warcraft.

I believe he is refering to the MMOness of inexplicably changing skills, and not the actual gameplay mechanics which are indeed close.

Pointless tangent: It is similar in that that it shares a close sub-genere, but the actual feel and style of numbers and the math is quiet different (WoW is a lot more balanced and generally has more generic effects to keep it that way). It is a lot closer to Defense of the Ancients (which is amusingly based on Warcraft III) or Heroes of Newerth mixed with D&D.

[Pretorian]

Wouldn't it just break the game when choosing your talents/attributes? So lets say you built one guy to be a complete tank and then thought hmm might want some damage, so then you just simply click the respec button and wala! Like ofcourse it would be nice to have a respect button as you might have chosen something 'bad' on the way through your leveling, but perhaps try and make use of it or use different strategy's. It would just ruin 'character development' in my opinion. Everyone is different...

[Theronyll Itholien]

Syrellaris wrote...

This is a classic rpg guys, not world of warcraft. You have to think about your actions here and not just go like " ooh sounds good, plant skill" and then cry later cuz you dont like it. Trial and error is very common in Crpgs

Trial  & Error is all cool as long as there's an option to respec. If you don't like the skills you've picked for your character and decide you're going another way with that character, you know that he'll eventually be weaker than he could've been if you made the right decisions from the start.

Players cannot know how crap a certain skilltree is until they've tried it. And since you gain a level once a freakin' day in this game, it would be player friendly to have an ability to respec. Maybe only once or twice or with some other penalty, but still.

'nough said, really.

[OrneryOnion]

I like that people are comparing Dragon Age to World of Warcraft, like it was the first game of its kind. I can see the argument that they are similar, but there are quite a few other games I'd sooner compare DA to.

Modifié par OrneryOnion, 05 novembre 2009 - 02:14 .

[Srikandi715]

I don't understand why people bring up WoW when talk of respeccing came up, like WoW was the first RPG where you could respend your skill points The concept originated in single-player RPGs long before WoW.



Respeccing does not break immersion any more than spending your skill points in the first place breaks immersion. It is a completely different order of contradiction from bringing real life money into the game world.



It's a contentious issue, for and against, in every RPG, though. The Torchlight devs did an interesting thing... they had an internal argument about it, and settled on a compromise where they included a respec potion which is not in the game but which is available to the mod toolkit, and then the day after release one of the devs provided a mod making the potion buyable



Is respec something that could be added by a mod in DA:O? Haven't looked at the mod tools here.

[Vardlure]

I'm sure someone will make a character editor someday :X There were plenty for Baldur's Gate IIRC. I used Near Infinity back then.

[Stanley Woo]

I guess I just have a different play style than some folks on here. Personally, I don't care for respec. I don't min-max in videogames and will play my character until the end, or I decide to try something else. Then I restart and re-roll my character, which is one of the most fun parts of RPGs for me, anyway! If I don't like it or can't beat some fights consistently, I'll re-roll.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Here's an idea: save before you choose your skills, don't like them then reload your save.



Respec is stupid, it just doesn't fit into a game like dragon age. It makes sense in something like an MMO because in those games your entire investment is the character. The story, the plot (both absent from MMO's) and the world don't matter just your character.



In a game like DA which emphasizes consequences being able to change your character completely on a whim would be ridiculous.

[Havokk7]

To change the question slightly, how would you feel about respec in a pen-and-paper RPG?



B

[Ertard]

I honestly don't see why it would hurt. I am as well an avid fan of old school CRPGs, but that doesn't mean this isn't 2009.



With a completely new system in this game as well, it's very hard to know what skills will do what and if they're actually that good. I would like to be able to respec so I could bring along Alistair, without making my character sort of useless.

[aznguyen316]

I haven't found myself thinking about a respec yet but yes, that option would be very well appreciated..



what's this $7 storage bin you speak of?

[Srikandi715]

I've seen this passionately argued, for and against, on the forums of every RPG in development. Personally though I am a fan of letting people play how they wish *shrug*. But with a moddable game, every side should be happy.



The storage bin would be Warden's Keep

[Nosuchluck]

I'm not bothered about respecting my own character but bloody hell I'd love to be able to respec my companions. I don't mind Morrigan being a shapeshifter but when she has so many talents put in to stuff I don't want and could be spent far better I'm a bit annoyed. It can lead to getting my party killed early on.

To those who don't want respecing? Well if it ever was implanted it would be an optional feature. It's not like you'd be forced to use it, so what's the problem?

[- Archangel -]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think it's strange how some folks are decrying the DLC NPCs as "breaking immersion," and here's other folks asking for options to break immersion so they can re-spec. Mom, Dad, don't make me choose! I love you both equally!

Yeah, it's not like you can change careers in real life or anything.

[Mudzr]

Well everyone wanting to play a new class in KOTOR has to do the tedius Tarris all over again, and the same for all other bioware games, except this time, you get to actually play a new intro It does get tedious I guess but you're replaying the rest of the game anyway, why not just skip that?