280 réponses à ce sujet

[Hety]

Well respec option is badly needed here. I mean cmon, who was the guy that gave morrigan her spells? I cant imagine more useless combo, really. It would be much better if she had some generic spells at her disposal (like Hex, she's a witch, after all) and shapeshifter skills, but dammit give us the option to customize other useless junk she has. Leave unspent points or something. Who in his mind will take a mage with so many wasted talents? I'll just better stick to melee guys, who, at least, dont have points spent on junk (cheers to Ali and Sten).

Also who thought taht giving a party a tank instead of a healer 1st was a good idea. Cmon guys, even in DA: Journeys 1st party member you get is healer. And thats GOOD. Doing ogre on NM with almost zero pots (and i haven't used a single one before this fight and grabbed every single one in game till this moment, including stealing em from every single poor fellow in game up to that point).and no healer in group is trying to punch a concrete wall with yer fist. And then u get TADAAAA) Morrigan. And she needs so much time to get on level just to get normal healing spell, taht i wanna kill her, myself, or my whole party altogether.

And before anyone will raise the topic - i DO understand, that skills should match the personality. And i really think its a good idea to make some skills a defaults for different characters. But hey, we are allowed to switch to Easy at any moment - why the hell there are so many respec-haters? Go hate another option in the menu now, fast!

Upd.:After reading the topic completely i found some ppl that appelate to the ability to make a perfect party for every encounter. And they thing its bad... And i send them all to hate "Easy" option also. Its like "IWIN!" button you can activate.
If you can cope with this, why you bother crying about respecs?

Modifié par Hety, 05 novembre 2009 - 05:07 .

[thestillwind]

A way to repsec will be nice, but not to skip origin. An incremental cost for the repeccing will be really nice so no abuse

[FlintlockJazz]

aznguyen316 wrote...

Ackis wrote...

I don't understand why people would be against this.

If you don't want to use it, don't.

I made the mistake of auto-leveling up once, I thought it would just do my stats. Now I'm stuck with some crap that I don't want.

I completely agree with you.  I could type a whole lot to argue some people on here.  I also agree with poster above saying the info doesn't say about what each  skill specifically does, so hence the well-thought out tactical decisions is BS.  If we're investing a bunch of hours into our characters why not be able to relearn skills and traits.  Especially with this being a new IP and all.

To argue the point about skipping origins, yeah the game is called origins, but I think after you get the achievement or at least have played through that specific origins piece once then you should be able to skip it.  What if I want to remake a new character of that origin, but have to go through the origins piece again?  All so we can get to the same point in Ostagar?  Just bump us to level 4 or whatever, send us to Ostagar as a GW and give us the skill points to distribute before we're off again.  That'd be nice.  Options are always nice, it's not forced upon you, so why not?

I have already explained how it can affect others who don't want it, and there is so much more to add but I won't bother since people here seem to be willfully ignoring those arguments that provide justification against respecing.  Suffice to say, I am happy to admit that I am trying to enforce my playstyle on how the game is played just as those who are arguing for it are also trying to force their playstyles on those of us who don't want it. 

There are plenty of other games with respecs in, and anyway how would it work for NPCs?  If you can respec them, then what would be the point in having to choose between them, just get the first three you come across that agree with your choices and respec 'em to what you want, then you don't have to worry about keeping them happy because you have chosen them as the characters who agree with your choices and respecced them to the 'perfect team'.

[Hety]

FlintlockJazz, i completely agree on NPC respeccing part, but some choices developers made make me cry. Ali - good selection. Sten - good also. Liliane - fine. Morrigan - wtf was that? Witch is witch, but the talents imply that she's a dumb one. I still dont see how an option can break a game for someone. Its like crying about 8x AA that it puts your rig to the kneels, so it should be removed.

[LdyShayna]

aznguyen316 wrote...
To argue the point about skipping origins, yeah the game is called origins, but I think after you get the achievement or at least have played through that specific origins piece once then you should be able to skip it.  What if I want to remake a new character of that origin, but have to go through the origins piece again?  All so we can get to the same point in Ostagar?  Just bump us to level 4 or whatever, send us to Ostagar as a GW and give us the skill points to distribute before we're off again.  That'd be nice.  Options are always nice, it's not forced upon you, so why not?

Because the origins are part of the story.  Why would you want to skip part of the story?

Modifié par LdyShayna, 05 novembre 2009 - 05:29 .

[Maedyan]

Well for me it is just a temptation.

If you put a bag of potato chips in front of me they're gonna get eaten.
If you put a button in the interface to enable it then it is likely to get used.
If I know what the cheat codes are then they are likely to get used.

Now my Fiance is a cheat code junkie and she uses cheat codes & trainers on every game she plays. Myself I like a challenge so I play through the game at least once before I even tempt myself. Now everybody can decide on their own on how to play but thats just how I like to do it.

I know with neverwinter nights; the third or fourth time I played it my character could chop through stuff a lot better than my first time through because I didn't make any mistakes with my specs but it is also like going through life perfectly. Who doesn't make mistakes?

So personally like the classic role playing where you live with your mistakes. It gives your character personality, limitations, and flawed just like I should be.

I did like someone's suggestion above though where you unlearn a skill (maybe by visiting a swords master or such) and a level or two later you can respec it. I think there would have to be some restrictions in place but otherwise it has merit but I don't think it should be instant gratification because nothing ever is lol

Anyway I agree with both sides of the argument but I'm more of a traditionalist. I'd like a way to respec but I'd abuse it so therefore I don't want it lol Strange logic huh?

Edit: edited out extra spaces hopefully

Modifié par Maedyan, 05 novembre 2009 - 05:27 .

[Hety]

Well atm you can abuse ArtMoney to give yerself an endless amount of skill/talent points. Thats easy, but i find the idea stupid, coz this wll really break everything.

[Hety]

Well atm you can abuse ArtMoney to give yerself an endless amount of skill/talent points. Thats easy, but i find the idea stupid, coz this wll really break everything.

[Jaucinet]

@Hety



As was pointed out earlier, it's not like aa being optional, it changes the nature of the game's challenge.

[Brother Brisbane]

Honestly, objectively, this game IS like WoW. Whether bware intended this or not, it is very similar. If the game offered a quick way to get past the initial stages, I would agree that we don't need a respec, but playing the same several HOURS over, just to get back a point or two to 'respec' is shortsighted development in this day and age.



I think it needs a respec system.



Talks of making wise decisions, etc, don't really come into play when spec'ing your toon b/c you have little idea what you might need til you start composing a party. I certainly thought my 2h spec would by viable until I realized that other party members have a real hard time holding hate & staying alive. OR they're just not spec'd for tanking. But then, neither am I. So what does a player do? Start over?! That's weak, Woo, just weak.

[Hety]

Jaucinet, as i already said EASY difficulty mode breaks the game completely. Its make it look and feel like Diablo. Should it be removed also? And also it provides zero challenge, unless player is dead, has shakes or drinking tea in the kitchen while his cat is playing DA.

[spectralpulse]

childofbhaal wrote...

And how exactly could you explain it away? Say you're level 15. The darkspawn are coming, we have no time, you have spent weeks and weeks recruiting and training yourself in your art.

Then poof.
Primal mage you become a full spirit healer. I see real potential for non immersion right there >.>

If you changed from warrior to mage (i.e. classes) this would make sense but your staying within your class, just choosing different talents. i don't see how this kills the immersion, your class still has the ability to learn and use these talents. You just decide to focus on something else later on (i.e. re-speccing from traps to poison). If it kills the immersion for you then don't do it.

[Staylost]

Re-spec is dumb.

Almost as dumb as not actually putting enough info into the manual so that people can make informed decisions about their characters to start the game.

I am kind of sad that they just spend up all the skills NPCs get before they join you. It makes your companions rather one-dimensional.

But the crappy manual is my real axe to grind.

Modifié par Staylost, 05 novembre 2009 - 05:49 .

[shintorg]

I'd love a respec option. Even a one-time or only at every 5/10 lvls. But I'm fine with the "just go reroll" option too. I intend to play through several times, try out several different main characters. It would just be nice to get to move a mis-spent point or two earlier than never.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

I'm still against respecing because it doesn't make sense within the context of the game. (Whoops, I forgot how to use that expert fighting technique I learned after years of training) Especially on party members.



Too many MMO players in here tbh

[ReallyAngry6969]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think it's strange how some folks are decrying the DLC NPCs as "breaking immersion," and here's other folks asking for options to break immersion so they can re-spec. Mom, Dad, don't make me choose! I love you both equally!

Clearly there are different points of view on this forum.  For example, I was the one complaining about the DLC NPCs, not this guy- and for good reason.  Having an NPC ask me for my credit card information if I want to help him out with his little problem is deplorable.  There is literally no conceivable reason to force us to pay extra money to experience all of the intial game content other than the fact that your company cares more about money than quality.  You really couldn't make a logical argument to the contrary.

As someone who played BGII and WoW -both for spans of years- I can tell you that this game is much, much more like WoW than you would like us to believe.  The parallels between this game and WoW are numerous, I will list them here:

1.  The leveling system in DA:O and WoW are extremely similar.  They are both based on linear progressions through different sets of abilities.  Both use secondary forms of progression trees to augment the primary ones- tradeskill progressions in WoW and skill progressions like herbalism or trapmaking in DA:O.  Ironically, these were both tradeskills in WoW with almost identical functions- although trapmaking was called engineering in WoW.  What's really pathetic is that engineering was much more complex than trapmaking.   DA:O does offer more customization- but what you get from specializations is minimal.  Right now I'm a shapeshifter who can't shapeshift because you don't get anything of actual substance out of the specialization itself.  You have to further invest points into getting the skills.  It's stupid.

2.  Quest hubs-  DA:O has quest hubs, which is absolutley unacceptable in what is supposed to be a complex single player RPG.  Quest hubs are towns or inanimate objects found at the same point, usually a building, in every town that give you quests.  In an MMO they are usually generic fetch quests, kill quests, collection quests, or dungeon quests that you don't need to read to complete because you can highlight it and your UI will tell you where to go, what to kill, and how many.  These are used in MMOs to drive level progression. 

Dragon Age: Origins brings us quest hubs in the form of the board out side of the Chantry in various towns.  In Denerim or whatever, I clicked on the board and accepted two quests- one was to disrupt Loghain's forces and another to rescue some refugees. 

The locations were marked on my map, and no information or exposition was given to me other than "the Chantry has provided you with information that might allow you to ambush Lord Loghain's forces."  So far these are exactly like WoW quests.  Regardless, one of the map markers was labeled "civil war," so I expected some sort of storyline, puzzle to solve, or decision to make.  But, I finished them in 5 minutes.  Both of them were just small areas with mobs of generic, nameless bad guys that I killed in seconds.  Only a brief dialogue scene occured in one, the other had no dialogue and no backstory.  These were almost identical to the quest hub quests in WoW. 

3.  Combat- Combat is remarkably similar in these two games.  The rate of combat is the same and the way skills are used is the same.  

I made a mage and took the first three healing spells in the creation line.  I put all of my party on the pre-set agressive tactic except for my character.  The fights are easy to the point of boredom on normal- I just sit back and stare at my party's health bars, healing them accordingly, while they hack stuff to pieces.  Sometimes I throw a walking bomb in for fun, because I like the explosion. 

The combat experience in DA:O is so remniscent of my experiences raid healing in WoW that it's almost scary.  Occasionally a mob will get lose from Alistair and start attacking me.  I'll find myself wanting to push fade to drop aggro or yell AGGRO ON HEALER in vent. 

4.  Storyline- both WoW and DA:O have cliche and uninspired story lines that involve a great evil that threatens to end the world.  In both instances, there is a blight- which only you and your band of heroes can stop.  The similarities here laughable.  A cliche, world ending plot is appropriate for an MMO where raid content and PvP are the primary game feature.  In a single player RPG, I would hope that the plot would be a little bit more original.  

Sadly, so far I prefer the storyline in WoW- it's a bit more complex since those afflicted become the undead, a playable race.

5.  Things have to be "unlocked."  In WoW, you have to go find specialized trainers to unlock the new levels of tradeskills.  In DA:O, you have to find various people or objects to unlock specializations.  It's silly.

[Jaucinet]

Ok, Hety. I accept easy is distinct, but allowing repec does affect everyone's experience.



I would put money on my having more spare time than you, and I can understand aversion to 'wasting' time learning the fine details. I've done it before (NWN2 last time) and it's a pain. However, this is the best way for many of us and leads to a richer experience. Maybe once you've really got into this you won't see it's learning curve as a waste of time. My favourite playthrough of BG2 was my third. Not that I'm saying you'll have to wait that long to appreciate it

[Avaere]

I plan on making one of each class and going through the origins without picking any skills/spells and then saving the game right after the origin. This woudl allow me to jump into that save and make and play any character i want and skip the origins.

[Zzinged]

DOODLET0N wrote...

A respec option would take away value from the game. You're supposed to make tactical and well thought out decisions on character development. If you don't like it, just start again and hopefully you aren't too far into the story.

Mmm... I don't think so. A respec option would be great for people who didn't have 8 hours a day to pour into a game. It would add value for a great number of people. Tactical and well though out character development is all well and good, but there's NO way people should be expected to know exactly what kind of character they want to be at any point in the game. For example, I had a rough plan for my character from levels 1 to 10. Now I'm level 5 and I find that some spells I picked for my mage aren't working out. I don't like it but I sure ain't starting again.

[phordicus]

isn't this what editors are for? my BG2 install is modded to hell, and my own AI scripting makes the original's look infantile, but i never think "gee i wouldn't have to do this if bioware had done it for me".



be glad you play the pc version that editing is even an option. i'd much rather have a complex and stable base to work with instead of throwing in a few more in-game options that remove editing options later.



ascension ftw.

[SheffSteel]

Make decisions and live with the consequences.

Too hard for you?

Heaven help you when you switch off the game and try living.

[DavidSims]

Why just an option to skip the origin? Why not the prelude as well? Or all the other plots you've already finished?



The origin is an integral part of the story. It's the opening chapter, not a throw-away tutorial.

[MightySword]

Is there a single player RPG out there that allow respeccing? THe only one comes to mind is Fable II, and it comes with a hefty pelnalty.

[Theronyll Itholien]

SheffSteel wrote...

Make decisions and live with the consequences.
Too hard for you?
Heaven help you when you switch off the game and try living.

I think that's the point, smart-butt. We're playing a game and would be happy to see that every decision you make in there won't be able to screw it all up.

There's nothing wrong with respeccing. If people don't like it, then don't use it. But being forced to continue with a character you accidently messed up because you didn't have the slightest idea what the combat would be like, or start completely over from scratch, is a bit harsh and an unnecessary cruelness.

[Wissenschaft]

oldmanpaco wrote...

Where is Dungeon-Be-Gone when you need it.

Who wants to bet this is going to be one of the first mods made for the game. :innocent: