280 réponses à ce sujet

[SheffSteel]

I will make that memory wipe mod. You'll talk to the Tranquil mage and he'll say "Warning: this will delete all spell(s). Are you sure (Y/N)" and if you say yes, you'll be reduced to level 1. Perfect.

[FlintlockJazz]

tristax78 wrote...
I have yet to hear / read one good reason against it. There's
really no excuse for not having as I said and it's a
topic I'm very passionate about.

Really?  So instead of explaining why any of the reasons given in this thread are in your opinion not good reasons you just declare that there is none?  Wow, I didn't realise we could just do that, or is it only you?  Let me try...

*Starts randomly pointing at posts and declaring their points null and void*

Hey, this is fun!

[Draift]

Bloody hell, did wow kill the normal rpg's too and not just the mmo's now? Respecs? Gotta be f-in kidding me... Dont like it, well dont play it. And to all you "i spent "X" hours of my life figuring out how to read the manual" do some research before you choose your skills and attributes, im sorry if using your head hurts if you use it but sometimes it has to be done. And if your time is so valuable why the hell do you waste it on a game, when you could use it for something.... Valuable?

[Thenders]

What of the things I liked about Oblivion was the point when you exit the sewers where a) you can change all the decisions you made up till then and the game auto saved to a special save right BEFORE you did this. I think this would make almost everybody happy, especially if you could edit your physical appearance.

[FlintlockJazz]

I think some people are forgetting how certain decisions in your Origin story are meant to come back and bit you in the arse later. For instance, whether you kill the lord or accept his money, amongst other things.

[joesk]

Oh I am sure if there is enough call for a respec option they will make it for DLC and charge a good chunk for it. I for one, being an old timer for CRPG's (Think back to wizardry 1) I wouldn't be one to buy that DL, since for me it would take away from the game. But we shouldn't deny someone else there flavor of pie just cause we don't like the flavor.

[Wickedjelly]

joesk wrote...

Oh I am sure if there is enough call for a respec option they will make it for DLC and charge a good chunk for it. I for one, being an old timer for CRPG's (Think back to wizardry 1) I wouldn't be one to buy that DL, since for me it would take away from the game. But we shouldn't deny someone else there flavor of pie just cause we don't like the flavor.

Yeah, I'm with you.  I don't see anything wrong with adding it into the game although I doubt I would ever use it.  Would be smart for them to add it as a purchasable dlc although you know what that would lead to on these forums hehe.

[jfunk]

tristax78 wrote...

My number one gripe about modern day RPG's is the inability to re-spec in
most.

1. Ultra-rare item drops that you could base your entire spec
around.  Obviously it would be stupid to plan this build from the start due to
the extremely low chance of getting the item but when it drops, your stuck using
it un-optimized.

2. Game progression.  Enter a zone where all mobs are
resistant to the school of magic you've dumped a ton of points into.  Would be
nice to be able to spec in and out depending on mission.

3. There is no
lore excuse not to do this. If they can make mages Tranquil, they can come up
with a way of doing a memory wipe.

4. For Hardcore players this means
endless hours on the net and in guides pouring over details like mid and end
game gear so you don't have to waste precious points into an attribute that a
certain item will make up for. So instead of diving into the game and learning
it all as you experience it, you have to delay playing until you've done an
asinine amount of research. Then when you finally do start to play, you feel
forced to rush to certain areas first to complete your build since you've
left 1-2 attributes gimped without said item.  I fall
into this category.

5. You have no idea what party members around going
to be around until you play the game. You could end up pissing one off or
whatever. If you decided not to tank because you were going to make companion
"X" the tank and then he splits, your now gimped or without a tank.

Your points are almost entirely MMO-centric.

1. Build your character entirely around a "rare item drop"?  You know there's no raid content you're building towards here right?  The point of this game (and single player RPGs in general) is the story.  There's no repeating dungeons over and over looking for some final set peice or whatever it is you guys are looking towards.

2. Completely change your entire character's life so he can be the best at beating whatever monster is standing in front of you right now?  Nobody is kicking you out of the group because you're not spec'ed properly for this particular dungeon, man.  Use your party members and their available skills to fight your way through the challenge, so THEY can face the next obstacle.  Notice it's THESE characters that are supposed to face the next challenge, not some magical completely different group of people that simply fall from the sky, sent from god for the sole purpose of conquering the next battle.

3.  Memory wipe..fine.  Now spend all the time it took you to learn your life-long skills again from scratch.  How exactly does a memory wipe = I have exactly as much expertise in life as I used to have, only it's now in completely different topics I've never learned at all?  Seriously, this is the least coherent nonsense attempt at logic I've seen in thread yet.  If my character has all of his experiences in life erased, CLEARLY he should be able to immediately decide to be a seasoned expert in the random skills of his or her choice, which they have never received any instruction on or spent any time practicing.  Perfectly logical.

4.  Nonsense.  Talk about something that "doesn't affect others" and "don't use it if you don't want to".  For those OCD people out there that must insist on having the "perfect" character, go ahead and do this all you want.  This has absolutely no bearing on how the game needs to be played.

5.  Yeah, don't ****** off a bunch of strangers because you never know when you might need them.  And really, if you're really scared about the possibility of not being able to resist pressing the "go f yourself" button on a character before knowing the full roster you have to choose from later in the game, go ahead and look it up.  That won't take "hours of research", it'll take you about 5 minutes.


Bottom line is virtually every respec advocate is completely ignoring the entire point of RPGs, which is story.  You're supposed to be playing this game because you want to ROLE-PLAY a character through the STORY.  It's not SUPPOSED to be a sequence of individual tactical battles which you calculate the most mathamatically efficient method of beating in as few moves as possible.  It's supposed to be about characters...the people...and their journey through this time in history while these historic events are unfolding around them.  Your character is learning and growing as a person as these events happen to them (or are caused by them).  The story is the point of these games.

If that's not your cup of tea, that's fine.  But really you're trying to make the genre something it's not.  Respeccing isn't going to satisfy you guys and you're still going to feel let down at the end, because there won't be anything there for you.  You're still just going to get the same cut-scene ending as everybody else that made your dialog choices and nobody will ever know how awesome or lame your "build" was, nor will they care. 

If you're into trying many different characters, that's cool.  But you have to go through the whole game with that character to see how they do.  It doesn't matter if he would be awesome for "this battle" if he's a total boat anchor for every other encounter.

The PRIMARY reason that the anti-respec people don't want it, is because it would change the design of the game from the core.  Games that have respec options (MMOs) have things like encounters that REQUIRE specific skills.  If the game were designed with the ability to swap skills in and out at will, these types of things quite simply would become part of the design as well.  That would cause the respec to stop being an "option" and become mandatory. 

Now, I will certainly conceed that at this point - post development - if they were to simply add a "respec" button to the character screen, that would'nt change anything for us non-respecers.  Obviously they would not also re-write all the encounters after the fact.  However, that would cause the concept to basically have to be supported going forward.  They can't take it away once they give it.  In other words, Dragon Age 2 would be that exact scenario we're all talking about, where respecing becomes a required component of play.

If you want to respec at will, just use a character editor.  I'm sure there will be one out within the month.

edit:  I have no idea what typo I had that made the middle of "absolutely" get censored out.

Modifié par jfunk, 05 novembre 2009 - 11:02 .

[BucMan55]

Respeccing in WoW is done primarily for those who are max level(or reach a certain level where some talents would open up and be more useful than simply leveling up that path) and want to switch. Heck, they even put in a saved backup spec. Its a way to keep players from having to lose all those valuable hours(hundreds at max level) to change their focus. This isnt the same thing. Think carefully about what you want to do with your char. Heck, I guarantee you that you can do the game back to the same point(especially if it is early in the game) in a fraction of the time it took you to do it the first time.

[Encard]

Bottom line is virtually every respec advocate is completely ignoring the entire point of RPGs, which is story.

Don't tell people how their game ought to be played.  That's just silly.  The point of RPGs - MMORPGs, single-player CRPGs, tabletop, whatever - is whatever you make of them.  It can be about the story...  the characters...  the combat...  pure mindless escapism...  whatever.  It's not yours to decide for everyone else.

Bottom line is, it doesn't hurt *your* game if someone plays *their* game differently.  Including the option for people who want it doesn't mandate you using it and doesn't detract from your play experience.

Modifié par Encard, 05 novembre 2009 - 11:07 .

[Vininsane]

cipher86 wrote...

I think this game is more like WoW than some would like to admit.

A respec option would be perfect, at least for the main character.

Dont be pathetic thios is a single player game play it....

[jfunk]

Encard wrote...

Bottom line is virtually every respec advocate is completely ignoring the entire point of RPGs, which is story.

Don't tell people how their game ought to be played.  That's just silly.  The point of RPGs - MMORPGs, single-player CRPGs, tabletop, whatever - is whatever you make of them.  It can be about the story...  the characters...  the combat...  pure mindless escapism...  whatever.  It's not yours to decide.

Bottom line is, it doesn't hurt *your* game if someone plays *their* game differently.  Including the option for people who want it doesn't mandate you using it and doesn't detract from your play experience.

You didn't read anything else I wrote did you?  Or that other people have written repeatedly in this thread. 

Yes, you can try to get whatever you want from this game, but the point is this genre has a certain goal from a design perspective.  You guys are upset because a game that was not designed with what you want in mind isn't giving it to you.

For the 20th time, which none of you respec advocates even acknowledge has been said any point, is that having a respec as part of the game design will inevitably CHANGE the game design itself to include respeccing as part of the play experience.  If it's supported in the design document, then the rest of the game design must acknowledge and cater to it.  THAT is how it WILL negatively affect our play experience.  It can't happen in a vaccuum, it will change many other aspects of the game from a design perspective.

[s4nder]

I just made a poll about respecs in Dragon Age. Check it out, vote and we'll see which side comes out on top.

Modifié par s4nder, 05 novembre 2009 - 11:12 .

[Vininsane]

Thenders wrote...

What of the things I liked about Oblivion was the point when you exit the sewers where a) you can change all the decisions you made up till then and the game auto saved to a special save right BEFORE you did this. I think this would make almost everybody happy, especially if you could edit your physical appearance.

Nope most of us want a game to play..... Not a merry go round fiasco....

Try playing a game to the end and sticking by all your decisions , rather than repeatedly rerolling .... It's surprising how much fun it is.

[TNTPOP]

Respec option SHOULD be in.  If you don't like it that fine don't let it ruin your game.. but many players DO and in this day and age it simply should be an option.... and not for $7 guys... patch it.

You don't have to choose between mom and dad.


Thanks for the great game.

[l0calh05t]

No, definitely no Respec! In Fallout 3 I was totally ripped out of the game immersion, when that respec screen showed up just as I was exiting the vault... I mean... why?! I was just about to leave the vault for the first time... and I get asked if I want to change everything. WTF?



Anyways, my oppinion is that respecs are ugly, metagamey bullsh*t, so no thanks

[Korean Bear]

Korean Bear wrote...

This game is fantastic and because of that I like to try out different characters. That being said it is very tedious to do so. If I want to try out a different mage spec I need to redo the Mage origin each time. At least for the other classes there are a few origins to choose from.

I am just requesting a way to skip to the after origin section with appropriate xp or a means of wiping the slate clean and recreating the character with all equipment and xp still intact. I'd prefer the latter. Granted we can skip through the cutscenes but that shaves off minutes not hours. In the mean time I am hoping someone releases a trainer to accomplish this same request.

First didn't realize this would be so heated. My first post that actually went past a page lol. I quoted my post because I wanted to point out that I never said I wanted to change a bad skill choice. But I do realize in hindsight that favoring a respec might have been a bad choice. I love the games story and love the tactical options and because of that I love creating different characters and thus different stories.
 
I just wanted a way to save time because 1) I know I will choose a certain moral path each time so there is no need to repeat the origin I've been through as I know the future will not change. 2) I tend to create 7 plus characters and want to spend time with family. My family time is preallocated and I will NEVER give up time with my daughter for a game.  Having said that if I can save time from redoing the origins I would like to so I can devote that time to the games changeable story. Changeable story to me is the companions that accompany me. My moral choices are always the same. 3) I love different tactical options and new characters allow me to explore those options. Sometimes I like to be the lifesaver and other times I like to end life with a 14 lb. axe through the enemies head.

My post wasn't specifically targeted at the devs but I figured they would be the best at implementing something fair based on their data of the game.

Having read through these forums I understand those against the respec option. However, I do not see how they would need to rebalance the game? With knowledge comes power and I mean that in the sense that as guides come out min/maxing can be achieved. Guides will give the mathematical metadata we need to evaluate each skill/stat/proficiency choice. I know the QA team did this as they are aware of rpg gamers in general. This is why they created nightmare. You NEED to min max for that. I'm sure because of testing they developed the difficulties based on casual gamers (easy, normal), hardcore gamers (hard), and min maxers (nightmare).

I do prefer a respec though but only if implemented properly. A blanket free respec button would not be viable but one with setbacks could be good. Personally I would suggest a pay to wipe system. The best system I have come across is Champion Onlines retcon. You can wipe whenever in base but at an increased cost per point wiped and a cost based on level. I don't remember if the level cost was there but it should be.
 
To showcase this lets say that each area will have its own cost. Since stat points are the most game changing make them the most expensive. I know some will say skills are but skills are improved by stats not the other way around. Make these say 3 silver per level per point with a 10% increase per respec bought. To clarify, the first respec point at say level 10 will cost 30 silver. The one after will cost 33 silver then 36, 39, 42... you get the picture. At level 11 the cost resets to 33 silver for that first point then 36 silver 30 copper, etc. Make skills cost 2 silver or 2 silver 50 copper for the same mechanic. Then have proficiencies cost 1 silver per point.

I think it would be good to implement because like someone said earlier you can't plan for that ultra rare item that warrants a build built around it. As for immersion we are in a fantasy setting. Memory wipes should be fine in story related lore. The lore covers tranquilizing someone so why not erasing their memory and refilling the minds energy with a new memory. Our minds are after all one very big harddrive. Our minds store electrical impulse in the cells of our grey matter just like a harddrive stores electrical pulses to a magnetic array.

Plus my way makes more sense than loading a previous save. I personally have not been able to reload a save in real life but I have had a hypnotist block off certain memories of a previous lover from my mind. I payed $10000 to have details of a lovers death wiped from my mind. I remember she died in a car crash and I remember her name but that is it.
 
Going into a dissertation again so I'll stop but just felt I should chime in again.

[Jaucinet]

There are cogent arguments here that can't be dismissed by throwaway comments involving 'nowadays'. What a grey, unvaried landscape of gaming that conjures up - no difference when you peek under the hood.

[FlintlockJazz]

Encard wrote...

Bottom line is virtually every respec advocate is completely ignoring the entire point of RPGs, which is story.

Don't tell people how their game ought to be played.  That's just silly.  The point of RPGs - MMORPGs, single-player CRPGs, tabletop, whatever - is whatever you make of them.  It can be about the story...  the characters...  the combat...  pure mindless escapism...  whatever.  It's not yours to decide for everyone else.

Bottom line is, it doesn't hurt *your* game if someone plays *their* game differently.  Including the option for people who want it doesn't mandate you using it and doesn't detract from your play experience.

Please, if you're going to call out someone on something they said, you should at least read the rest instead of nitpicking and taking one thing out of context (the fact that he actually explains how he feels that it would hurt him and you just ignored that indicates that you are actually trolling I'm sorry to say)), please?

[II Relics II]

I have found that the system allows you to do dual specialties such as shield and sword and 2-hander, just put some of your points into those skill areas. My party's Alistair uses both dual wielding and shield and weapon skills. I use the Dual Wielding for high DPS and then the Sword and Shield for when I need him to be more of a tank. You could do the same thing for your character also.

[John Chance]

I don't think we really need a way to skip the backstory, what we need are MORE backstories and fairly quickly. I give the guys at bioware a thumbs up simply because I'm not doing my usual thing and having to run through the SAME opening quests 50 times right off the bat . . . it takes a few seconds before "replay fever" really hits as I reach the main game.



However along with the awesome variety of starts it would be nice to see some more downloadable content. Humans only have one unique origin, and the mage origin is the same for elves and humans alike. It would be nice to start as a dalish keeper in training, or a human commoner, or maybe a barbarian from the wilds. . .

[s4nder]

Why do people need to save time when playing? Ie the "I only have an hour a day to play and I'll never get anywhere if I have to reroll" argument. What's the hurry? Do you need to win the game with your perfect character as often as possible? Games are meant to spent your time, not save it. Would you like Dragon Age to last for two hours so you can spend more time with your family? What do you lose when you find a great item that doesn't fit your build? Time? Wasn't that what you were trying to lose when you decided to play video games in the first place? All arguments for respecs do is give you another reason to play through the fantastic game once more. What's bad about that?

Again, all these arguments are from MMO-s where people need to get to the top and compete among each other for internet fame and best virtual items. You're not paying a monthly fee for Dragon Age and your friends aren't going to call you a noob if you get your party wiped in a tough fight. So take it easy, think about your choices and enjoy the game for a long time. It may be harder if you don't get everything you want at once, but it will pay off in the end.

Modifié par s4nder, 05 novembre 2009 - 11:58 .

[scyld]

cipher86 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think it's strange how some folks are decrying the DLC NPCs as "breaking immersion," and here's other folks asking for options to break immersion so they can re-spec. Mom, Dad, don't make me choose! I love you both equally!

The "Premium Content" log in the journal definitely breaks immersion, unless you have some way of explaining how it fits the universe?

Respeccing, on the other hand, would only break immersion if no effort were made to explain it, which I'm certain Bioware could do.

The save/load functions and interface break immersion too! Pls remove them! 

Also, I'm trying to think of a Bioware game that allowed respeccing in the past, and I cannot think of one. Did people complain about the lack of this ability in Mass Effect as well?

[Trojan Hegemony]

Game is fun and I'd love to try many different builds, but I can't because there's no respec and I have absolutely no desire to replay the mage through this game 10 times for 10 different combinations to try out... then do that again for Rogues and Warriors.



Sadly, without a way to respec I won't get to experience 70% of the abilities of each class.