280 réponses à ce sujet

[Wompoo]

Draift wrote...

Bloody hell, did wow kill the normal rpg's too and not just the mmo's now? Respecs? Gotta be f-in kidding me... Dont like it, well dont play it. And to all you "i spent "X" hours of my life figuring out how to read the manual" do some research before you choose your skills and attributes, im sorry if using your head hurts if you use it but sometimes it has to be done. And if your time is so valuable why the hell do you waste it on a game, when you could use it for something.... Valuable?

This said it all...
the WoW kiddies slithered up out of the primordial oze or escaped from BNet. There influence doesn't make games or the genres better, it destroys them. now game time /bye

[John Chance]

Respec rather defeats the purpose of a roleplaying game, your supposed to pretend to be your character, I can CHOOSE to learn a new set of skills, but that doesn't mean I'm going to forget everything I did before and suddenly not be able to turn on a computer because I learned how to be a fisherman. Just level up your character and make the best use out of ALL your skills.



As for the origins I like them, we just could use MORE origins. Perhaps a Dalish Keeper for the mages, or a human commoner, or maybe a barbarian from the wilds.

[scyld]

John Chance wrote...

As for the origins I like them, we just could use MORE origins. Perhaps a Dalish Keeper for the mages, or a human commoner, or maybe a barbarian from the wilds.

I agree, needs moer origin stories! Moer, not less!

[Korean Bear]

s4nder wrote...

Why do people need to save time when playing? Ie the "I only have an hour a day to play and I'll never get anywhere if I have to reroll" argument. What's the hurry? Do you need to win the game with your perfect character as often as possible? Games are meant to spent your time, not save it. Would you like Dragon Age to last for two hours so you can spend more time with your family? What do you lose when you find a great item that doesn't fit your build? Time? Wasn't that what you were trying to lose when you decided to play video games in the first place? All arguments for respecs do is give you another reason to play through the fantastic game once more. What's bad about that?

Again, all these arguments are from MMO-s where people need to get to the top and compete among each other for internet fame and best virtual items. You're not paying a monthly fee for Dragon Age and your friends aren't going to call you a noob if you get your party wiped in a tough fight. So take it easy, think about your choices and enjoy the game for a long time. It may be harder if you don't get everything you want at once, but it will pay off in the end.

Reading posts like this make me realize my financial backing makes me an unusual gamer. Right now game wise I am playing Forza3 on my 360 and Borderlands, Torchlight, DAO, WoW, and DDO on my pc. Thats just the latest batch that caught or recaught my attention. Actually WoW and DDO are family games so they don't count towards this intro skip argument. They are mentioned just to give an idea of how many games I am playing this week.Modern Warfare 2 is due out next week and thats gonna destroy 10 hours lol. I average a new game per week across all consoles and pc. This is not including analog gaming.

While for the average gamer losing an hour or ten here is not that big a deal, actually it isn't a big deal in general, I would prefer to be able to devote those precious minutes to new experiences within my games. On that note I am probably gonna stick to my melee mage till a trainer or intro skip mod comes out. Statistically the average gamer sticks to one medium and 1 game per month.

[RomperStomper]

i can understand to desire to min/max in an MMO, you are up against RL people and a respec is almost required to ensure all is fair. but this is a single player game and although i can understand peoples desire to get the most from their character abilities, it is a single player game, all the abilities have been balanced against the game, not other players. so a couple of misspent points isnt going to change the game that much.



and not to rain on the parade of people that have made mistakes or dont want to, but there is an autp level option for every character if you are that fearful of making mistakes.



i say down with respec, leave it in the MMO's where it belongs.

[SheffSteel]

The game should have an NPC at the camp that offers you 1000 gold pieces and 10,000 experience points for free, if you ask them to.



If it offends you, just don't talk to the character. Why would that spoil the game?

[VeeVito]

Korean Bear wrote...

s4nder wrote...

Why do people need to save time when playing? Ie the "I only have an hour a day to play and I'll never get anywhere if I have to reroll" argument. What's the hurry? Do you need to win the game with your perfect character as often as possible? Games are meant to spent your time, not save it. Would you like Dragon Age to last for two hours so you can spend more time with your family? What do you lose when you find a great item that doesn't fit your build? Time? Wasn't that what you were trying to lose when you decided to play video games in the first place? All arguments for respecs do is give you another reason to play through the fantastic game once more. What's bad about that?

Again, all these arguments are from MMO-s where people need to get to the top and compete among each other for internet fame and best virtual items. You're not paying a monthly fee for Dragon Age and your friends aren't going to call you a noob if you get your party wiped in a tough fight. So take it easy, think about your choices and enjoy the game for a long time. It may be harder if you don't get everything you want at once, but it will pay off in the end.

Reading posts like this make me realize my financial backing makes me an unusual gamer. Right now game wise I am playing Forza3 on my 360 and Borderlands, Torchlight, DAO, WoW, and DDO on my pc. Thats just the latest batch that caught or recaught my attention. Actually WoW and DDO are family games so they don't count towards this intro skip argument. They are mentioned just to give an idea of how many games I am playing this week.Modern Warfare 2 is due out next week and thats gonna destroy 10 hours lol. I average a new game per week across all consoles and pc. This is not including analog gaming.

While for the average gamer losing an hour or ten here is not that big a deal, actually it isn't a big deal in general, I would prefer to be able to devote those precious minutes to new experiences within my games. On that note I am probably gonna stick to my melee mage till a trainer or intro skip mod comes out. Statistically the average gamer sticks to one medium and 1 game per month.

If games are ever designed around your mindset, that will be a sad day. I mean are you kidding? That's like saying movie producers should shorten movie lengths to 30 minutes because, well, there are 10 movies releasing this weekend....

If you have that type of mindset for games, why are you even interested in rpgs?

[Staylost]

Once again, this whole thing could be avoided if we were simply given a decent manual that explained the world a whole lot better in numbers.

[SPiercey]

Create a character, get past the origin, don't spec at all during the origin. Create a save something like "clean mage" and then just load that save every time you want to start a new mage.

[Pyre_Firebane]

Hmm, I want a respec feature. Why? Cause some spells/skills are really crap and there's no way to know till you try them. I don't want to play hours and hours over again through content I've already seen recently. Why is that way 'better', more 'realistic', or more 'immersive'? I fail to see how it is.



And if you don't like it, don't use it. Really, it's that simple. It doesn't have to break your 'immersion' into the game. They can put it in an out of the way sort of place and if you don't want to use it then you'll never even have to see it. You can remain 'pure' (and elitist).



Oh, and my character didn't have to spend 'years and years' to learn several spells in the creation tree. Maybe to become a mage, but many spells only took days/weeks/maybe a month or two in game to learn. So much for immersion?



I'm an 'old school gamer', but being stuck with useless skills/spells that sounded good in the description ISN'T FUN AT ALL. NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT. And there's nothing 'tactical' or realistic about it. My >character< should have known through first hand observation and study that a spell was lackluster before deciding to pick it up. I don't get that sort of benefit. Hell, even sorcerers in D&D can exchange spells they don't like , every few levels or so. Guess that just breaks the hell out of some people's 'immersion' into their D&D game. Wizards can learn every spell in the game technically so it isn't much of an issue for them.



I just don't get the mentality where some people feel the NEED to force people to play THEIR way when this can be implemented in a way that they never even need interact with. I think they must sympathize with the templars in game to a very large degree. Their second hobby must be 'rooster' blocking.

[Korean Bear]

[/quote]

If games are ever designed around your mindset, that will be a sad day. I mean are you kidding? That's like saying movie producers should shorten movie lengths to 30 minutes because, well, there are 10 movies releasing this weekend....

If you have that type of mindset for games, why are you even interested in rpgs? [/quote]


Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said shorten the game. Maybe one day when you get some hair in certain body areas, have intercourse, get a kid or 3 of your own, and leave mommies basement you will understand the need to optimize time management. Wait, sorry, I have no basis to assume any of what I just said to be true based on your comments. Just like you have no basis for saying I want the game itself shortened. If I was complaining about how long the game was I wouldn't want to create several different stories lasting upwards of 100 hours each. I see no problems with skipping tedium which would be the origins. 

I know there are multiple paths but I already stated I choose the same moral path each time. If your counter is no game does this. Is this your first bioware fantasy rpg? NWN did exactly what I am asking for. That to my knowledge is still considered a modern game by game design standpoints. Granted I'm sure you could not skip the origins till after completing them once just like in neverwinter.

[aznguyen316]

SPiercey wrote...

Create a character, get past the origin, don't spec at all during the origin. Create a save something like "clean mage" and then just load that save every time you want to start a new mage.

not a bad idea.. although the name and looks will all be the same.

[Gfan24]

Guys,I think people here "respec" and think, well, I have a level 18 dw warrior and want to magically make him a sword and shield juggernaut with all defense skills. That's not what alot are saying. They are saying 2 things:

1. The game starts you with certain skills/spells/talents that may not fit your build. there should be a way to change this. Also with the origin story, you may have to go through that 5 or 6 times until you get a build you like, WHICH ALSO break immersion. Which leads me into two...

2. I think a fair respec is one that you pay skill by skill, becoming more and more expensive the more you change(say after 3 skills, it becomes insanely expensive you could never afford it). Say you are a blood mage, but still have that hex you thought would work differently. Or a duidic type mage and have that curse that doesn't go with the build. You go to an npc, pay alot of money, loose the hex and gain a new skill. I agree that magically creating a whole new character, especially at the end, is not needed.



Incidentally, there is a command line workaround that basically lets you add/remove any skill you want at any time. This is great for those blunder moments when you accidentally pick a hex instead of a buff.

[canalzonie]

respec+=100;

[Xalm Grey]

Wompoo wrote...

Draift wrote...

Bloody hell, did wow kill the normal rpg's too and not just the mmo's now? Respecs? Gotta be f-in kidding me... Dont like it, well dont play it. And to all you "i spent "X" hours of my life figuring out how to read the manual" do some research before you choose your skills and attributes, im sorry if using your head hurts if you use it but sometimes it has to be done. And if your time is so valuable why the hell do you waste it on a game, when you could use it for something.... Valuable?

This said it all...
the WoW kiddies slithered up out of the primordial oze or escaped from BNet. There influence doesn't make games or the genres better, it destroys them. now game time /bye

I like the snobbery dripping from this post. The bioware forums used to be alot more civil than this from what i remember. This person here casting everyone that plays WoW as a "B-net kiddie" belongs on the WoW forums with that kind of attitude.

[phordicus]

i hate baseball.
it'd be more fun if you could tackle a base runner or tag someone out by throwing the ball at them.
naturally, if someone didn't want to use these options they wouldn't have to, especially in a single-player game with bots/NPCs.

guess what. i still hate baseball and what i've changed it to is not baseball anymore. that others can choose not to play it that way doesn't magically transform my hybrid back to purebreed.

that said, i'm in favor of it. it actually won't even be a demand after editors/mods are released and the documentation is fleshed out. researching the perfect "build" for your style of play won't take more than 10 minutes. it is somewhat annoying that through ignorance my character is less than optimal but i can deal with those minor consequences. what's even more annoying is that even from an RPG standpoint it's absolutely inexplicable. the "radically changing professions" argument has some surface merit except that what is actually occurring is more along the lines of someone who knows they want to be a genetic engineer but they sign up for 3 years of law school because no one told them how useless law school would be to a genetic engineer.

i can always change my mind. my character can always have an epiphany and stop being a jerk or decide to turn traitor to a group he's discovered is evil. he made choices based on the information available. there has to be informed consent at all points yet the needlessly incomplete documentation makes these non-RP elements have disproportionately greater consequences than the RP decisions.

if there is an entire generation who has no idea what a real RPG is (and i subscribe to that), denying re-spec based on shared attributes with other genres or some elitist code of RP behavior is not going to do anyone any good. we will get our RPG, they will get what they want (and sadly, what they're used to). the end result is that more games like this will be made, to the benefit of all.

Modifié par phordicus, 06 novembre 2009 - 08:34 .

[Trand]

I respec by playing the game again. Honestly read the talents and plan your toon in advance, is that really so hard?

[Shauk]

No, I agree, the WoW players need to keep WoW mechanics out of this game, I hate that crap and I'll tell you why.



To me, MMO's were about the community and the RPG element of that was about the individual.

The community aspect of WoW was destroyed when they started pissing on everyone's environment with paid name changes, server changes, race changes, gender changes, faction changes. Servers no longer were static environments with persistent communities, they became half way houses for complete and utter jerks and promoted the act of being a jerk and pissing on the gameplay experience (or the RPG element) by turning it in to a selfish "meme" fest. Lie to everyone, Ninja what you want, trick your way to guild banks, do everything you can for a few virtual gold and pixels on your character, and then for 10$, it all goes away, nobody knows you anymore. That isn't an MMO community, it's a FPS community wearing plate armor and giggling about it.



Respecing is a horrible idea for this game and it's a slippery slope i'd rather not contend with in game.



I'd rather see the DA:O team spend their time working on relevant content that I will pay for, than waste their time on what some d-bag will already probably create a save game editor to do anyways.



I quit wow a long time ago and I really don't want to be reminded of WoW by anything in this game. Blizzard is a disgusting money grubbing company now and while I understand Bioware wants to make money too, this isn't the way to do it.

[Vizhalaa]

i dunno why everyone keeps saying wow cause there are.. ALOT of games with the same set up. developers can create a new set up if they want, completely fresh but ppl would get frustrated relearning a brand new thing. this model works for so many games and everyones familiar to it. thats all there is to it..



although, a respec would be nice, perhaps for bioware points. considering my mage, lvl 18, perfectly happy, then i accidently added a wrong skill cause my twitched..



*delete*.



i had it all planned out too.. lol.

[SheffSteel]

If you are the sort of person who, on realising that one of your skills / spells / talents really isn't all that you hoped it would be, tends to think "Oh, I made a mistake" then there is good news. The game provides a way for you to undo that mistake and take the path you wanted to take... if you remembered to save the game. Even better, you can use this same technique to undo any ingame mistake, not just selecting how your character will upgrade when going up a level.

On the other hand, if your response tends to be more along the lines of "It wasn't my fault" then the prospects are not so good. True, someone may create a mod for you (assuming for the moment that you don't want to create one for yourself) but that will only solve this one problem, and I am sure that (since you are human) there will be plenty more things that aren't your fault  as you learn about this game world and rules system. Unfortunately, it looks like you'll have to come back here and start another thread.

[SupidSeep]

I'm against it.

[Sarevok Anchev]

When i played the first time BG2 my F/M/T was such a misfit and was every step getting hammered with quest-requests, that i started a new character.

This time it was a F/M and i could handle the possibilities in the game.

Dont complain about such minor things. You are just missing afterwards someone who feeds and washes you as long as you sti and play all day.



Dragon Age isnt cloning WoW. MMO's just took working systems of normal RPG's.

[allothernamesweretaken]

Dr. Scarabus wrote...

MortalFoil wrote...

DOODLET0N wrote...

A respec option would take away value from the game. You're supposed to make tactical and well thought out decisions on character development. If you don't like it, just start again and hopefully you aren't too far into the story.

That is a really crappy suggestion. It's like saying your time isn't valuable. Not all of us live in our mom's basement. And no amount of thinking about the skills will ensure that you make the best choice. Text descriptions can only do so much. Most times you need to actually use the skill in battle to see if it's viable. And to do that, you need to make permanent guesses. That is a game play flaw, no matter how you try and put your elitest spin on it. The fact that you can't repec other characters when you get them, in whose talents you had no say, is just salt in the wound.

It's almost as if Bioware frowns upon min-maxing, isn't it?

And thank god for that.

[Opcode]

KinjoHavic wrote...

I respec by playing the game again. Honestly read the talents and plan your toon in advance, is that really so hard?

yes it is apaprently.

No one wants us to have our old school RPGs anymore where chocies matter.  But then, no one seems to want their choices to matter in the Real World anymore either, so i shouldn't be surpised.

Entitlement is the name of the game these days.