61 réponses à ce sujet

[phoenix fang55]

First and foremost, I'm loving this game, but the biggest issue I have with it is how bioware basically declared war on healing. I understand that they want to make the game more tactical, and want to stop potion spamming and the like, they've given us a fair number of abilities to allow us to weather the storm, but overall, the lack of healing is a bit gnawing.

 

Mind you, I'm a person that has always concentrated on healing. In every game I play I look for items that make health regen faster, take abilities to heal over damage increases and the like.

 

As is, I think just a few minor changes would help quite a bit.

 

A) add a heal spell, two ways to limit it would be quite simple, either make it with a high cool down, or make it low impact, meaning it heals for like 100 or something, or even make it slow, combined with a long cool down, make it heal over time instead of instant.

 

Add a slow health regen when not in battle. As it is now, eventually I have to stop exploring and go to a camp so I can get back my health.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Remember, you can fast travel back to camp to save time. Also, stocking up on regen potions for your tanks will help you stay out in the field longer. Maxing use of guard and barrier is really important as well.

[PhroXenGold]

Adding any type of heal not limited to focus or out of combat regen would compeltely break the attrition based system they've designed DA:I around. By having healing or OOC regen, it means that every encounter, to be worth fighting, has to be able to completely party wipe you and must be treated in isolation, as you'd just be restored to full health after the encounter. By instead preventing health recovery except for a preset amount of potions, the devs can design encounters that are instead designed to wear away at your health and potions over time and can balance multiple encounters together rather than having to keep them separate.

 

You're meant to have to go to a camp every now and then to stock up, although in general, I woudl recommend you push on to the next one rather than going back - and if you find you're doing it too regularly to be fun, turn the difficulty down. 

 

Long cool down small heals would make things far far worse, as you'd be encouraged to sit around doing nothing after combat until you've had time to get your health back to full (and if you make it usable in combat only, you're instead encouraged to keep a weak enemy permanenetly CCed until you get you're health up which is even more stupid).

[Logen]

I like not having healing spells.  I find it is more liberating exploring the abilities of my mages without having to worry about healing my characters.  

[IST]

Is revive the only healing spell? I thought there was one that used focus later on in the game?

 

Edit: Forgot about Resurgence in the specialised trees (Knight Enchanter at least has this) - Heals the whole party and revives at the same time.

 

So there still is healing magic, it's just much harder to pull off (which lines up with DA lore I think, it's very difficult to heal people if I recall rightly).

[Capeo]

Regen potions are your friend. They keep you topped off between fights so you can explore for long periods of time without returning to camp.

[Smittyry17]

I think if you add heal people can just wait after a fight until you heal everyone, or if health regen was added I would just wait after each fight. I do like it because every fight is a risk. If you can heal with magic than there is small risk to the little fights. 8 potions is a limited resource so it shows sometimes it might be best to avoid a fight rather than risk it if you are going to fight something powerful. I was upset at first. But in practice it does work out.

[wcholcombe]

I think the game is balanced greatly without the heal spells.

[DarthLaxian]

Remember, you can fast travel back to camp to save time. Also, stocking up on regen potions for your tanks will help you stay out in the field longer. Maxing use of guard and barrier is really important as well.

 

BUT: You can't fast travel back to the location you came from (I'd love to be able to place a marker or something to travel back to....) - thus I artificially steals your TIME (time you could spend killing that dragon or doing that quest...but no, you have to spend it on the road -.-)

 

greetings LAX

ps: I'd like healing back, too

[Ashevajak]

Something had to be done about healing.  I mean, in DA:O it was ridiculous.  I think my Warden went into the final battle with somewhere in the region of 100+ healing poultices...decent quality ones, I mean, not the trash from the start of the game.  Yes, there was the cooldown on usage, but it wasn't very high except on the very top quality ones (IIRC, it's been a while since I last played Origins) and meant you could pretty much faceroll to victory on higher difficulty levels - especially if you had a couple of spirit healers working their magic in the background.

DA2 was...better, in terms of balancing healing.  Crafting abuse was cut down significantly and spell cooldowns were increased.  Difficulty capped available potions (though there were workarounds).  Nightmare was definitely a little more tactically focused, thanks to those additions...but as an emergency "get out of jail free card", healing potions and spells still had quite a bit of utility.  And of course, once the battle was over, all was good.  You could charge headlong right into the next one, health fully restored.

 

I don't know if the current way BioWare has gone is the solution (I'm in the UK, so no Inquisition until Saturday.  This is what I get for my ancestors backing feudalism).  I can see it opening up more tactical gameplay, as with the talk of attrition, and I'm always for more challenging gameplay, so I'll give it a try. 

 

Another way to have gone would have been to look at magic healing over time, by giving short duration health regeneration boosts.  So you regain, say, 5% of your base health over 10 seconds.  No more instant restore would mean more careful planning in how to use spells and potions.  It would also give those spells some utility in resisting enemy DoT effects (poisons, fire, certain spells etc).  Couple that with no health regen out of battle, and you'd have something of a happy medium between the current system and the old one, especially if perhaps out of combat healing were limited to poultices and camp, and not magic (I'm sure some abritrary lore-reason could account for this).  You can also finesse the regen more finely, perhaps making it slightly less effective as you go up in difficulty levels, which is likely an easier to implement system than artifical caps clever players will circumvent.

 

That would be what I would be looking at, anyway.

[Kierro Ren]

BUT: You can't fast travel back to the location you came from (I'd love to be able to place a marker or something to travel back to....) - thus I artificially steals your TIME (time you could spend killing that dragon or doing that quest...but no, you have to spend it on the road -.-)

 

greetings LAX

ps: I'd like healing back, too

 

You can fast travel to encampments. Just travel to the nearest camp, then travel the rest. As for healing, I have a loadout that's freaking sweet and truth be told. My party is a total walk 4 man army of destruction. And so far, 0 deaths and each member never went pass the first part of health.

[JohnnyEdge]

I don't mind the lack of healing, but my issue is with the way guard and barrier are displayed.  I think they are good ideas, but I've put in about 4 hours so far and still can't figure out if barrier lasts until the damage is done, or if there is a timer on it, or if it is a combination... it's just a blue bar that starts reducing as soon as I cast it, but it's description says that it is additional health based on damage done.  

 

And guard.... oh guard.  The only description of this is that it is represented by grey bars on top of your health bar.  But how much? That doesn't matter so much when playing on normal, but I'm playing on Nightmare, and I need numbers.  I need to know how much of a beating my mage is going to take if he runs from here to there across the battlefield.  A bar doesn't really cut it. 

[Itkovian]

I'm loving the lack of healing. The fights are better, more tactical, and the encounters are more fun now. It's just plain better.

[Commander Michael]

I maybe would've enjoyed the change more if they actually made Tactical Camera and Tactics better than worthless... 

[Kershmey]

I revile what they've done with healing. Absolutely bloody hate it. I loathe the potion/healthpack/poultice/medkit thing in any game.. 'munch this! You've only got so many left to munch! Must manage your munchables! Uh oh, out of munchies, better stop what you're doing and get more..!' That's not challenging, that's just ANNOYING. It's also utterly inconsistant with the previous games, and takes a major dump on anyone who actually liked playing a healer in the previous titles. Pro-tip: reducing the number of available play-styles is NOT A GOOD IDEA with an RPG sequel.

[Khevar]

I love the change.

 

Barrier, Guard, Crowd Control and kill order requires more forethought than mashing infinite heal pots and healing spells.

[Kershmey]

What do you mean? Mashing heal-pots is currently the name of the game, albeit they're not infinite. The lack of any form of regen makes it clear: you MUST keep your potions stocked. Maybe this holds some appeal for a niche market, but given neither DA:O or DA2 even resembled this system, it's a pretty unfair change to impose on the rest of the player-base. I was certainly hoping this game would be a less 'arcade' experience than the last, but I had no idea that I'd be expected to play like it's a turn-based tactics game. I despise turn-based tactics games.

It's also just a massive 'WTF?!' lore-wise. It's entirely obvious that healing magic is a thing in this world, but now, for the sake of 'hey, lets try something new..!', it suddenly doesn't exist. Sorry, players with a massive preference for healing in fantasy titles: you're SOL!

[finc.loki]

Adding any type of heal not limited to focus or out of combat regen would compeltely break the attrition based system they've designed DA:I around. By having healing or OOC regen, it means that every encounter, to be worth fighting, has to be able to completely party wipe you and must be treated in isolation, as you'd just be restored to full health after the encounter. By instead preventing health recovery except for a preset amount of potions, the devs can design encounters that are instead designed to wear away at your health and potions over time and can balance multiple encounters together rather than having to keep them separate.

 

You're meant to have to go to a camp every now and then to stock up, although in general, I woudl recommend you push on to the next one rather than going back - and if you find you're doing it too regularly to be fun, turn the difficulty down. 

 

Long cool down small heals would make things far far worse, as you'd be encouraged to sit around doing nothing after combat until you've had time to get your health back to full (and if you make it usable in combat only, you're instead encouraged to keep a weak enemy permanenetly CCed until you get you're health up which is even more stupid).

Attrition based system is the dumbest they ever did. It is basically based on BOREDOM and annoyance. The battles become "how many potions do I have left, now that the battle is done and I have 3 potions left, should I go back to camp or JUST PLAY THE GAME".

 

I loathe that decision they made. DA1 and 2 were way more fun in combat that way. I much prefer a timed based potion system instead. It still has tactics because since you can't pop one at will but it has a timer of perhaps a 1 min or so you have to be strategic, but have fun in combat and when the battle is done you auto-regen back or pop a potion which you can loot in the world.

DA2 was really fun in combat, actually enjoyed the waves of enemies because you felt powerful in all your actions, still had a challenge etc.

 

So far this game is about 2-4 enemies in EVERY encounter and they are all damage soakers and unless you overlevel they all make you feel like you hit like a little girl in the abilities. I want Assassinate and just One hit kill scrubs. Bosses should be a challenge, elites etc. But plebs should be easy to dispatch. That is what made combat fun and visceral in DA2.

 

The worst part about the new system is that you STILL have infinite potions, they just made it an annoyance by having you backtrack in the game to get them replenished. It kills the enjoyment of the game to think about heal potions all the time.

I want to think about the fun of being in combat, not if I should proceed and maybe end up in a no win situation because I cannot LOOT potions, But I have to run back to camp or fast travel and then run ALL THE WAY BACK and face respawned enemies etc. It is so cheap and idiotic I think it is 100% worse than anything else in any DA game ever.

 

Also they managed to make a perfectly good tac camera and system from DAO mediocre, and perfectly fun visceral combat and excitement of DA2 to something mediocre as well. Then they introduced an annoyance of limited potions and no healing.

 

IDIOTIC MOVE!!!

 

I never understand why they cannot fathom that what fans wanted was the BEST of both games, not mediocre with a new system of annoyance.

If they would have taken the great tac system for DAO it would make all the pause an play players love it. Do the same with real time combat from DA2 and all of real time combat would love it. LOVE across the board.

Also what is with the looting system. Why did they make that more annoying too.

[yankblan]

Attrition based system is the dumbest they ever did. It is basically based on BOREDOM and annoyance. The battles become "how many potions do I have left, now that the battle is done and I have 3 potions left, should I go back to camp or JUST PLAY THE GAME".
 
I loathe that decision they made. DA1 and 2 were way more fun in combat that way. I much prefer a timed based potion system instead. It still has tactics because since you can't pop one at will but it has a timer of perhaps a 1 min or so you have to be strategic, but have fun in combat and when the battle is done you auto-regen back or pop a potion which you can loot in the world.
DA2 was really fun in combat, actually enjoyed the waves of enemies because you felt powerful in all your actions, still had a challenge etc.
 
So far this game is about 2-4 enemies in EVERY encounter and they are all damage soakers and unless you overlevel they all make you feel like you hit like a little girl in the abilities. I want Assassinate and just One hit kill scrubs. Bosses should be a challenge, elites etc. But plebs should be easy to dispatch. That is what made combat fun and visceral in DA2.
 
The worst part about the new system is that you STILL have infinite potions, they just made it an annoyance by having you backtrack in the game to get them replenished. It kills the enjoyment of the game to think about heal potions all the time.
I want to think about the fun of being in combat, not if I should proceed and maybe end up in a no win situation because I cannot LOOT potions, But I have to run back to camp or fast travel and then run ALL THE WAY BACK and face respawned enemies etc. It is so cheap and idiotic I think it is 100% worse than anything else in any DA game ever.
 
Also they managed to make a perfectly good tac camera and system from DAO mediocre, and perfectly fun visceral combat and excitement of DA2 to something mediocre as well. Then they introduced an annoyance of limited potions and no healing.
 
IDIOTIC MOVE!!!
 
I never understand why they cannot fathom that what fans wanted was the BEST of both games, not mediocre with a new system of annoyance.
If they would have taken the great tac system for DAO it would make all the pause an play players love it. Do the same with real time combat from DA2 and all of real time combat would love it. LOVE across the board.
Also what is with the looting system. Why did they make that more annoying too.

Yes sure, take all that stuff from the past, make it a generic fantasy RPG that are a dime a dozen, and kill innovation. Don't go off the beaten track! Cater to all the idiots who whine and ****** and cry and insult your work, sure they will appreciate it.

So you don't like it, point made. Go buy Skyrim or Original Sins, and stop ruining the fun for us, and stop dumping on devs who are willing to be creative in a genre that is oversaturated with the same clichés and mechanics.

[Kershmey]

Yes sure, take all that stuff from the past, make it a generic fantasy RPG that are a dime a dozen, and kill innovation. Don't go off the beaten track! Cater to all the idiots who whine and ****** and cry and insult your work, sure they will appreciate it.

So you don't like it, point made. Go buy Skyrim or Original Sins, and stop ruining the fun for us, and stop dumping on devs who are willing to be creative in a genre that is oversaturated with the same clichés and mechanics.

Nothing about the game is innovative. The UI looks like WoW/every other MMO, the gameplay is much the same, only with the addition of a 'turn-based tactics' style time-freeze. It's actually demoralizingly absent of anything remotely innovative. A forced 'potion-sucking' system? What in the world is innovative about that? Try a major throw-back to a by-gone era most of us who've been gaming a while were glad to see game devs get past. This game looks fantastic, but honestly plays like it's 15 years old.

[yankblan]

Nothing about the game is innovative. The UI looks like WoW/every other MMO, the gameplay is much the same, only with the addition of a 'turn-based tactics' style time-freeze. It's actually demoralizingly absent of anything remotely innovative. A forced 'potion-sucking' system? What in the world is innovative about that? Try a major throw-back to a by-gone era most of us who've been gaming a while were glad to see game devs get past. This game looks fantastic, but honestly plays like it's 15 years old.

The removal of healing is to make the game more challenging. You don't think that when JRPGs and WRPGs both have a healer, 100 limit on potions, regen spells, etc. since forever is kind of backwards? It's a shock, sure, but it adds a layer of planning and tactic that I like.

Have you noticed how much quests give you XP and combat so few? Do quests, avoid combat as much as possible, then go back to earlier areas where you can maul everything in your path; no healing needed.

[Khevar]

Try a major throw-back to a by-gone era most of us who've been gaming a while were glad to see game devs get past. This game looks fantastic, but honestly plays like it's 15 years old.

 

You're being a bit silly here.

 

If you're running out of healing pots, it means your chosen strategy results in too much incoming damage.  Use more damage mitigation abilities.  Focus the important enemies first.  Use crowd control to take enemies out of the fight.  Etc.

 

If you don't feel like doing that, then simply turn the difficulty down.  Voila.

[Kershmey]

It does make the game more challenging, but it does it on the wrong end... in the way losing a limb might make a triathalon more challenging. I know there are people in that situation who engage in triathalons, and all power too them, but it's still not my idea of an ideal situation. I suppose it's my bad for going in thinking I'd have that leg, should have done my research and signed the right form... but hell, too late. Rev up the chainsaw.

 

I'd much prefer if opponents became more dynamic as the games progressed instead of my options becoming less, and that support tree is pretty darn barren. Spooky even. Where your points go only on a dare, never to return.

[adun12345]

I'm of two minds about the changes to healing.

 

On the one hand, I think that the removal of healing is a major blow to the diversity of mage builds.  In DA:O and DA2 there were a number of mage builds conceivable, including mages dedicated to healing, buffing, damage, and CC.  Certainly, DA:O had an overabundance of mage abilities, especially compared to the abilities of fighters and rogues, but DA2 I thought had a nice balance between several very distinct mage builds: elementalist burst dps, entropy/bloodmage DoT/CC, and spirit healer/force mage heals/CC.  In DA:I, I feel like mage identity has been reduced to picking one or more of three flavors of elemental dps.  This is a bigger critique than just the removal of healing, but I think removing healing is part of it.  I miss mages having more diverse identities, both mechanically and flavor-wise.

 

On the other hand, I actually haven't missed healing *specifically* while playing as much as I thought I would.  The combination of potions, barrier, and guard provides a good alternative.  It's also made playing a warrior more interesting, as guard is basically a form of self-healing that goes a long way towards making warriors more independent, whereas in previous games their survival depended so much on the healer (in fact, this system of healer-less tank is probably my favorite innovation in the game thus far).  Rebalancing fights to not involve a healer also provides more diversity in party setup, since you don't *have* to bring a healer to every fight.

 

Finally, although it can be annoying to have to break off and return to camp to restock on potions, it also mechanically reinforces the importance of the Inquisition as an organization in the story.  DA:O is about a single hero building an elite team to take on the archdemon; DA2 is about a single hero struggling with his friends to hold it together as the world falls apart.  In DA:I, however, the hero is a central figure in a much larger organization, trying to put the world back together.  Having to expand your network of camps, and return to them for support, emphasizes the importance of the larger organization in driving the story forward.  Thus far, I've really felt like the pathfinder for a major growing organization, pushing out and restoring law and order one camp at a time.

[finc.loki]

Yes sure, take all that stuff from the past, make it a generic fantasy RPG that are a dime a dozen, and kill innovation. Don't go off the beaten track! Cater to all the idiots who whine and ****** and cry and insult your work, sure they will appreciate it.

So you don't like it, point made. Go buy Skyrim or Original Sins, and stop ruining the fun for us, and stop dumping on devs who are willing to be creative in a genre that is oversaturated with the same clichés and mechanics.

What innovation? To remove healing that was in both games before it. To make it attrition based damage and difficulty. What exactly is "innovative" about having unlimited potions at camps and the ability to fast travel to them at ANY time. It's an illusion of difficulty since at your beckoning you always have 8-12 potions but at the expense of NUISANCE to having to run back to where you fast traveled from.

I guess you can't see through the charade.

Also, tactics is lacking. Some Abilities are pure idiocy for the AI, like charging bull. 

The game isn't generic when there are NO other games like it around. None that I can think of that plays like DA: Origins or DA2. Both had flaws and perfection. The smart choice would be to take what WORKED and made it even better. Not implement a tactical camera that cannot zoom out fully and awful controls on PC. 

Dual Wielding rogues that just take damage like hell  and eat up potions. Cole will NEVER EVER be in my party, it is a liability of bad design.

 

The game isn't challenging because of the gameplay, It is challenging because you have restrictions and limitations of the potions. That is so easy to see...

Also, the challenge otherwise is that you hit weak enemies hit hard (attrition), and they are damage soakers.

 

Wow innovative!!!