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[Capone666]

Cool video you get to hear all about Fiona rag on her long lost baby....King Alistair..

 

[Capone666]

It's true! 

[Big I]

I didn't read The Calling, so until this game my only glimpse of the character was a small part of Aunder. That said, she seems like a pretty terrible person.

 

- she made no effort to be a part of Alistair's life, letting him think that his mother was a dead human servant.

- she abused the hospitality of the Guerrin family, the same family that raised her son

- she abused the hospitality of her own son, the king

- she sold her people out to the Imperium (wth Fiona, you're an elf leading mages into a society that keeps elven slaves?)

- she feels no reget over the rebellion. Really? What about those apostates that broke away from your ranks and started to kill people in the Hinterlands? They were your responsibility and you did nothing to stop them.

 

She's basically Orsino 2.0. Everything she touches is a disaster.

[MisterJB]

"What happened, had to happen."
Yeah, because it didn't happen to her. I wonder how receptive would she be if the Templars used that phrase.

Uncaring, unrepentant, vicious dog of Tevinter.
Where's Adrian, anyway?

[nos_astra]

Ha!

 

I heard she's not the most pleasant person. That's ok. It's not every character's job to be likeable.

 

Too bad her son became a drunk in my current playthrough.

[Lulupab]

- she made no effort to be a part of Alistair's life, letting him think that his mother was a dead human servant.

Elfblooded humans are treated like mongrels and are ridiculed everywhere, Alistair couldn't even become king if people knew.

 

- she abused the hospitality of the Guerrin family, the same family that raised her son

Alexius took control of Redcliff, she just didn't stop him because she couldn't and she didn't want to reduce her chances of winning against Templars by fighting among themselves. Also Arl Eamon only look after Alistair for a very short time, he was raised in the Chantry because Isolde didn't want her.
 

- she abused the hospitality of her own son, the king

What I said above applies here too.

 

- she sold her people out to the Imperium (wth Fiona, you're an elf leading mages into a society that keeps elven slaves?)

If you side with Templars you'd realize the order has been corrupted for ages, Templar leaders always abusing their station with no consequence. Against such force would you rather she let mages die at the hand of junkies corrupted to the very core? Its was either death or that. Any sane person would choose the former.
 

- she feels no reget over the rebellion. Really? What about those apostates that broke away from your ranks and started to kill people in the Hinterlands? They were your responsibility and you did nothing to stop them.

Any soldiers who "breaks away" is no longer the responsibility of the leader. Its betrayal and the responsibility is not on the others. Its the rules about soldiers in 99% of countries.
 

She's basically Orsino 2.0. Everything she touches is a disaster.

Revolutions are needed to put down tyrants and corrupt officers who are supposed to keep the peace. Such revolutions can always go awry but history doesn't care, as long as the tyrants are gone. Meredith was a saint in comparison to the corruption among Seeker and Templar ranks. It had to be opposed, even the zealous chantry agrees with this.

[Lulupab]

"What happened, had to happen."
Yeah, because it didn't happen to her. I wonder how receptive would she be if the Templars used that phrase.

Uncaring, unrepentant, vicious dog of Tevinter.
Where's Adrian, anyway?

The Templars care? They repent? Hopeless paranoid, obsessed and demented junkies. If you side with them they blatantly admit to corruption of their officers long before the mage rebellion. The mages had no less right than Ferelden when they rebelled against Orlais occupation. The rebellion might gone awry but its was necessary, absolutely necessary. Indeed what happened has to happen. Or else people would still had the delusions of Templars being their guardians.

[LadyVaJedi]

Sweet

[MisterJB]

The Templars care? They repent? Hopeless paranoid, obsessed and demented junkies. If you side with them they blatantly admit to corruption of their officers long before the mage rebellion. The mages had no less right than Ferelden when they rebelled against Orlais occupation. The rebellion might gone awry but its was necessary, absolutely necessary. Indeed what happened has to happen. Or else people would still had the delusions of Templars being their guardians.

Right, everything is permissible and admitted if mages benefit.

It doesn't matter how many people are hurt. Having portions of Ferelden taken over by Magisters is perfectly acceptable if it helps mages. They are the priority, always.

 

Ironic, how you speak of taking "tyrants" down and yet defend traitors to all of Thedas who brought the Magisters. That's not "defying tyrants". That's supporting tyranny for your benefit.

[The Hierophant]

Right, everything is permissible and admitted if mages benefit.

It doesn't matter how many people are hurt. Having portions of Ferelden taken over by Magisters is perfectly acceptable if it helps mages. They are the priority, always.

 

Ironic, how you speak of taking "tyrants" down and yet defend traitors to all of Thedas who brought the Magisters. That's not "defying tyrants". That's supporting tyranny for your benefit.

The hypocrisy is astounding.

[Taleroth]

Right, everything is permissible and admitted if mages benefit.
It doesn't matter how many people are hurt. Having portions of Ferelden taken over by Magisters is perfectly acceptable if it helps mages. They are the priority, always.
 
Ironic, how you speak of taking "tyrants" down and yet defend traitors to all of Thedas who brought the Magisters. That's not "defying tyrants". That's supporting tyranny for your benefit.

When the alternative is to be murdered for being born, "treason" doesn't seem so bad.

[blackflamerose]

Granted, I haven't gotten that far yet, so I don't have all the specifics, but from a strategy standpoint, going to Tevinter for an alliance makes sense. The rebellion's started, and most countries hate mages, so what other option did they have? There was no way she could have known that Alexius was a member of a batcrap-crazy cult, unless the insinuation is that no one from Tevinter is trustworthy because Tevinter is Always Chaotic Evil (Dorian and Maevaris would have words with you on that). Unless she sold her faction into slavery (which I really don't think she did), I can't fault her for taking one of the only options of alliance avaliable. Now the Templars experimenting with red lyrium, even after they knew what it did to people? That I can fault.

[MisterJB]

When the alternative is to be murdered for being born, "treason" doesn't seem so bad.

 

At most, executed for breaking the law against leaving the Circle.

Now, they get to be executed for being traitors to every Andrastian nation. If there is one thing Fereldans, Orlesians, Nevarrans, Anders, Marchers, Antivans and Rivaini all agree on is that Tevinter is THE enemy.

How do you think "We wanted to be free so much we were willing to betray the people who sheltered us to be sold by Tevinters." is going to sound?

 

At any rate, if you (and by "you" I mean Fiona) want to claim practicality, then don't attempt to wrap your justifications under a pathetically thin blanket of morality.

 

"We looked out for ourselves first just as non-mages have done" is one thing.

"This needed to happen." is another completely different.

 

The people of Redcliff and Hinterlands needed to be butchered and enslaved? Why, exactly?

[Br3admax]

Ferelden was sheltering them, but they needed protection. From an army going insane and miles away. 

[MisterJB]

I haven't gotten my hands on the game yet so, I'm not privy to all details but I doubt they even approached Alistair and Anora before inviting a foreign army into Ferelden territory.

[Br3admax]

Of course not. Why would they agree to having their towns ransacked and Teagan disposed? What they did do was allow mages of any origin stay under Ferelden's protection and supported them as refugees. 

[Lulupab]

Right, everything is permissible and admitted if mages benefit.

It doesn't matter how many people are hurt. Having portions of Ferelden taken over by Magisters is perfectly acceptable if it helps mages. They are the priority, always.

 

Ironic, how you speak of taking "tyrants" down and yet defend traitors to all of Thedas who brought the Magisters. That's not "defying tyrants". That's supporting tyranny for your benefit.

 

You better play the game then, Fiona did not invite Tevinter mages. They slowly joined the rebel ranks in disguise of oppressed mages and took control, Fiona didn't oppose it because obviously it would weaken their strength against an army of Templars going insane, and she couldn't stop Alexius to begin with. What do you think she should have done in that situation? If you want to blame Tevinter so be it, but mages had nothing to with it, they had to submit to the situation.

 

So when Adnraste rebelled it didn't matter how many people were hurt, right? The Templar tyranny was very close to those of Magisters and they are not helping themselves at all in this game, you better play it. We should doubt the intelligence of a person if he thinks Templars are safe to have around. Cole can listen to Lyrium and he says like mages, Templars can always fall to the song, becoming paranoid and demented. All it takes is one slip. Ironic isn't it? They having the same danger of mages? Cullen also confirms this.

 

At most, executed for breaking the law against leaving the Circle.

Now, they get to be executed for being traitors to every Andrastian nation. If there is one thing Fereldans, Orlesians, Nevarrans, Anders, Marchers, Antivans and Rivaini all agree on is that Tevinter is THE enemy.

How do you think "We wanted to be free so much we were willing to betray the people who sheltered us to be sold by Tevinters." is going to sound?

 

At any rate, if you (and by "you" I mean Fiona) want to claim practicality, then don't attempt to wrap your justifications under a pathetically thin blanket of morality.

 

"We looked out for ourselves first just as non-mages have done" is one thing.

"This needed to happen." is another completely different.

 

The people of Redcliff and Hinterlands needed to be butchered and enslaved? Why, exactly?

 

The Templars have done worse, they have also butchered people in Hinterlands and due to being more in numbers and resourcefulness they are more capable. At any rate as far as I know the Templars will never have the same amount of power and authority no matter which ending you choose to have. Because that would be blatant foolishness after what happened. The way the Templars acted and the corruption among their high ranking officials is the main reason mages rebelled. You call tevinter THE enemy but the Templars themselves have become aware of how corrupted and lost they have become and accept this blame. You don't need blood magic to become a Magister, Templar leaders ARE magisters. 

[DeathScepter]

I didn't read The Calling, so until this game my only glimpse of the character was a small part of Aunder. That said, she seems like a pretty terrible person.

 

- she made no effort to be a part of Alistair's life, letting him think that his mother was a dead human servant.

- she abused the hospitality of the Guerrin family, the same family that raised her son

- she abused the hospitality of her own son, the king

- she sold her people out to the Imperium (wth Fiona, you're an elf leading mages into a society that keeps elven slaves?)

- she feels no reget over the rebellion. Really? What about those apostates that broke away from your ranks and started to kill people in the Hinterlands? They were your responsibility and you did nothing to stop them.

 

She's basically Orsino 2.0. Everything she touches is a disaster.

 

 

this is why I don't want Fiona to be Alistar's mother. 

[Mr.House]

Fiona won't be talking about that in my game since she got a longsword in her gut back at Haven.

[Kenshen]

Even though she has to be pretty old I found her to be kinda hot.

[MisterJB]

You better play the game then, Fiona did not invite Tevinter mages. They slowly joined the rebel ranks in disguise of oppressed mages and took control, Fiona didn't oppose it because obviously it would weaken their strength against an army of Templars going insane, and she couldn't stop Alexius to begin with. What do you think she should have done in that situation? If you want to blame Tevinter so be it, but mages had nothing to with it, they had to submit to the situation.

Considering that in this very video she uses the word "choice" and that in others I've seen she says "We shouldn't have taken the Magister's offer", your claim that they took control rather than it being given to them seem most innacurate.

Fiona herself seems to admit she made a conscious choice to ally with Tevinter.

 

And even if she simply did not oppose them; she is still equally to blame. Pro-mages show no mercy for Elthina doing nothing to rein in Meredith so, I see no reason to show any to Fiona if all that she did was nothing while Tevinter occupied Ferelden because it was convenient for her.

 

What should she have done? Not betray the very people who sheltered them!

If you really want to, fine! But then don't actually act as if you made a moral and called for decision as Fiona is doing.

 

 

So when Adnraste rebelled it didn't matter how many people were hurt, right? The Templar tyranny was very close to those of Magisters and they are not helping themselves at all in this game, you better play it.

Right, so the Templars have ordered works to push their friends to a dragon pit so as to increase productivity?

They have killed eight year old boys for entertainment at parties?

Opened breachs into the Fade so it can pour into the real world altering the very physics?

Claiming that the Circle is as pointlessly cruel or dangerous as Tevinter is wrong.

 

And even if it was, the people the mages betrayed and sold out to Tevinter were not the Templars.

 Templars can always fall to the song, becoming paranoid and demented. All it takes is one slip. Ironic isn't it? They having the same danger of mages? Cullen also confirms this.

Except they can't kill people with their minds. And demons aren't actively and constantly seeking to possess them. pretty big differences.

 

The Templars have done worse, they have also butchered people in Hinterlands and due to being more in numbers and resourcefulness they are more capable.

 

And those who have done so will be held accountable as well.

But as far as I know, the Templar leadership has not actually made decisions that lead to entire portions of Ferelden territory being occupied by hostile, foreign empires.

 

The way the Templars acted and the corruption among their high ranking officials is the main reason mages rebelled.

100% debatable.

I, for one, would say the main reason the mages rebelled is because they are coddled, spoiled, power hungry and entitled children who refuse to take responsibility for the threat they pose and over glorify an harsh world they know little about and can see nothing beyond their own behinds and "muhfreedom".

 

 You call tevinter THE enemy

No, the people of Thedas do that.

 

 

You don't need blood magic to become a Magister, Templar leaders ARE magisters. 

No, a magister is a magical political figure in Tevinter whose authority is recognized by the Imperial Senate.

 

Here, allow me: "You don't need magic to be bad, Templar leaders ARE bad."

 

Have some care for how you word arguments.

 

 

[Lulupab]

Considering that in this very video she uses the word "choice" and that in others I've seen she says "We shouldn't have taken the Magister's offer", your claim that they took control rather than it being given to them seem most innacurate.
Fiona herself seems to admit she made a conscious choice to ally with Tevinter.
 
And even if she simply did not oppose them; she is still equally to blame. Pro-mages show no mercy for Elthina doing nothing to rein in Meredith so, I see no reason to show any to Fiona if all that she did was nothing while Tevinter occupied Ferelden because it was convenient for her.

It was either that or death at the hands of an insane army ( I think because you didn't play the game you are missing the fact that the Templars are absolutely insane unless you decide to help them, they have lost it and those who have't lost it cannot do anything but follow orders). Alexius took over and yes Fiona, while his intention was to protect mages from junkie maniac army, she made a conscious choice to work with them. It definitely beats the alternative which is mercy of insane people.
 

What should she have done? Not betray the very people who sheltered them!
If you really want to, fine! But then don't actually act as if you made a moral and called for decision as Fiona is doing.

The only reason the mages survive to the point of Inquisition helping them is because of her action, you are free to call those action whatever you like.
 
 

Right, so the Templars have ordered works to push their friends to a dragon pit so as to increase productivity?
They have killed eight year old boys for entertainment at parties?
Opened breachs into the Fade so it can pour into the real world altering the very physics?
Claiming that the Circle is as pointlessly cruel or dangerous as Tevinter is wrong.
 
And even if it was, the people the mages betrayed and sold out to Tevinter were not the Templars.

Its made clear that many things, cruel things, happened to mages with Templar covering it perfectly. Cole was not the only one. No one heard about it because there was always the excuse of "the killed mages were dangerous". No one cared enough to investigate, the Templars were taken for their words.

Mages didn't betray anyone but the Templars, they are working with Tevinter because Templars have gone insane and killing/rampaging everything on their path to redcliff because mages are there.
 

And those who have done so will be held accountable as well.
But as far as I know, the Templar leadership has not actually made decisions that lead to entire portions of Ferelden territory being occupied by hostile, foreign empires.

Unless you choose to help Templars they don't even need leaders to act, the Templar leaders are working with demons to begin with.
 

100% debatable.
I, for one, would say the main reason the mages rebelled is because they are coddled, spoiled, power hungry and entitled children who refuse to take responsibility for the threat they pose and over glorify an harsh world they know little about and can see nothing beyond their own behinds and "muhfreedom".

Its not debatable actually. Disbanding the college of Enchanters was completely unaccounted for and is officially what tipped the war off, and Lambert is to blame. As I said the Templars (and seekers) admit that they have always seen the corruption in the higher ranking officials and Lambert is no different. He literally made the mage government tranquil so it couldn't act against it.
  
 

Except they can't kill people with their minds. And demons aren't actively and constantly seeking to possess them. pretty big differences.

But they have enough numbers and influence to be actually more dangerous than mind power or abominations.
 

No, a magister is a magical political figure in Tevinter whose authority is recognized by the Imperial Senate.
 
Here, allow me: "You don't need magic to be bad, Templar leaders ARE bad."

Why does it make a difference? Templars who were not leaders never questioned their higher ranking officials anyhow so we shouldn't just blame the leaders because why would they care when they are paid with gold and their drug resupplied? The game does a perfect job in showing the true face of Templars, some argue its favoritism towards mages but I disagree. Its about time we stopped fooling ourselves about Templars.

[MisterJB]

It was either that or death at the hands of an insane army ( I think because you didn't play the game you are missing the fact that the Templars are absolutely insane unless you decide to help them, they have lost it and those who have't lost it cannot do anything but follow orders). Alexius took over and yes Fiona, while his intention was to protect mages from junkie maniac army, she made a conscious choice to work with them. It definitely beats the alternative which is mercy of insane people.

Right, we're back to "Mages had every reason to have Ferelden invaded because mages lives are the priority always. At all times."

 

Yes, they are traitors. They are traitors to Southern Thedas as a whole but more specifically to the kingdom of Ferelden who actually treated them as refugees.

And I honestly can't believe I have to explain how they are traitors. They allied with an hostile force that proceeded to occupy Ferelden territory. That is the very definition of betrayal.

 

Honestly, the person who can't even acknowledge this somehow feels entitled to tell the forums that "we should stop fooling ourselves about the Templars"

 

We are the ones fooling ourselves? When you won't even acknowledge how being allowed inside someone's home and then opening the door for thieves is a betrayal?
 

[Capone666]

Fiona won't be talking about that in my game since she got a longsword in her gut back at Haven.

 

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE! NOOOO

[Barquiel]

I can't really blame her for turning to Tevinter for support. I mean...who else were she going to turn too at that time? Who would have given a damn about mages but Tevinter? After all, they would get no active support from any white divine chantry nation.