111 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

As far as Im concerned Fiona is the new "Isolde" of Inquisition.  I wanted to gut her but seeing Alistair's reaction to her was worth every moment. 

The look on her face was priceless!

[Jaison1986]

It was pretty awkward seeing Fiona getting an verbal smackdown from her son and her daughter-in-law. But totally worth it. By the novels I thought she would be like an badass, but in the game, she acts like an total wimp.

[TheTurtle]

You guys are making want to start a new game just so I can side with the mages and and see this verbal beatdown.

[herkles]

Does Alistair/anora only show up in the game if you side with the mages.

[Lulupab]

Right, we're back to "Mages had every reason to have Ferelden invaded because mages lives are the priority always. At all times."
 
Yes, they are traitors. They are traitors to Southern Thedas as a whole but more specifically to the kingdom of Ferelden who actually treated them as refugees.
And I honestly can't believe I have to explain how they are traitors. They allied with an hostile force that proceeded to occupy Ferelden territory. That is the very definition of betrayal.
 
Honestly, the person who can't even acknowledge this somehow feels entitled to tell the forums that "we should stop fooling ourselves about the Templars"
 
We are the ones fooling ourselves? When you won't even acknowledge how being allowed inside someone's home and then opening the door for thieves is a betrayal?

Yeah, its fooling oneself. Templars are aligned with demons (the red Lyrium attracts them like blood magic) so against this army I think its perfectly justified to accept help from someone who is the only one willing to help you. You think mages should have submit to mad Templars backed to demons instead of getting the free help from Tevinter. She did not intend to kick the people out, Alexius did that and at that point she couldn't do anything about it. You keep ignoring the fact that Templars WERE ON THEIR WAY TO ATTACK REDCLIFF AND KILL EVERYONE. Are you even serious? Tell me more about mages betraying Ferelden.

[MisterJB]

Yeah, its fooling oneself. Templars are aligned with demons (the red Lyrium attracts them like blood magic) so against this army I think its perfectly justified to accept help from someone who is the only one willing to help you. You think mages should have submit to mad Templars backed to demons instead of getting the free help from Tevinter. She did not intend to kick the people out, Alexius did that and at that point she couldn't do anything about it. You keep ignoring the fact that Templars WERE ON THEIR WAY TO ATTACK REDCLIFF AND KILL EVERYONE. Are you even serious? Tell me more about mages betraying Ferelden.

 

Yes, it was a betrayal.

Even if I accept your word on the intentions of the Templars; at which point then it becomes the duty of the Ferelden army to protect Redcliff, NOT Tevinter; that still doesn't change the fact the mages then invited a force that was as hostile to Ferelden as these Templars purely because they are less hostile to mages.

And of course, Fiona knew what was going to happen. She knew it so well that she didn't seek the approval of Alistair and Anora because she knew they would never support it. Anyone with two brain cells could tell what was going to happen if you invite a superior military force, never mind bloody Tevinter, to provide you with protection.

Basically, the mages sacrificed the entire population of Redcliff to help themselves.

 

So, yes, the mages are traitors. Everyone acknowledges this except you. Alistair and Anora will even kick them all out.
 

[Hellion Rex]

Yeah, its fooling oneself. Templars are aligned with demons (the red Lyrium attracts them like blood magic)

Well, technically it attracts everyone, but probably the Templars a bit more cause of their normal lyrium usage.

 

Though the reason for the siren like song of red lyrium, is explained in Varric's quest.

[Lulupab]

Yes, it was a betrayal.
Even if I accept your word on the intentions of the Templars; at which point then it becomes the duty of the Ferelden army to protect Redcliff, NOT Tevinter; that still doesn't change the fact the mages then invited a force that was as hostile to Ferelden as these Templars purely because they are less hostile to mages.
And of course, Fiona knew what was going to happen. She knew it so well that she didn't seek the approval of Alistair and Anora because she knew they would never support it. Anyone with two brain cells could tell what was going to happen if you invite a superior military force, never mind bloody Tevinter, to provide you with protection.
Basically, the mages sacrificed the entire population of Redcliff to help themselves.
 
So, yes, the mages are traitors. Everyone acknowledges this except you. Alistair and Anora will even kick them all out.

If you put it that way then yes, its a lesser betrayal against a bigger one who turned on the world its supposed to protect. Yes I mean the Templars. It appears the Tempalrs did actually get cerberus treatment, we just have a chance to save them from that mess unlike the actual Cerberus. Tevinter disguised its way into Redcliff to begin with, she would have to encourage fighting among themselves to stop it. That would have devastated the city more than anything. There was nothing she could have done but to accept it, Tevinter totally outmatched her.

[Lulupab]

Well, technically it attracts everyone, but probably the Templars a bit more cause of their normal lyrium usage.
 
Though the reason for the siren like song of red lyrium, is explained in Varric's quest.

Indeed it does, but the red lyroum song is louder and people who have affinity with Lyrium (Templars and fade entities) hear it more clear.

[MisterJB]

If you put it that way then yes, its a lesser betrayal against a bigger one who turned on the world its supposed to protect. Yes I mean the Templars. It appears the Tempalrs did actually get cerberus treatment, we just have a chance to save them from that mess unlike the actual Cerberus. Tevinter disguised its way into Redcliff to begin with, she would have to encourage fighting among themselves to stop it. That would have devastated the city more than anything. There was nothing she could have done but to accept it, Tevinter totally outmatched her.

 

I'll make my own judgment once I acquire the game (European) but, so far, if I didn't know better I'd call the mages the villains. Taken in as refugees and then selling their benefactors as slaves? Not very defensible
 

As for their options, from what I heard in this video and seen in others, Tevinters infiltrated the mage rebellion and encouraged Fiona to ally with Tevinter but, at the end of the day, it was entirely her choice. All she had to do was say "No" to it.

I for one, can't picture Teagan going along with it. What did the mages do? Attack Redcliff from the inside as they invaded? After all, if Teagan was sold but Fiona spared, I can only imagine she was seen a collaborator.

 

(That's a rhetorical question, don't spoil it, please) 

[peasant007]

 

I didn't put two and two together; I didn't realize that she was THAT Fiona.  I thought it was kind of strange that she was all concerned about Alistair, but I just figured, much like my Inquisitor did, that she just wanted to smooth things over with Alistair for the Redcliffe stuff and maybe concern for her dead friend's son.

[Lulupab]

I'll make my own judgment once I acquire the game (European) but, so far, if I didn't know better I'd call the mages the villains. Taken in as refugees and then selling their benefactors as slaves? Not very defensible
 
As for their options, from what I heard in this video and seen in others, Tevinters infiltrated the mage rebellion and encouraged Fiona to ally with Tevinter but, at the end of the day, it was entirely her choice. All she had to do was say "No" to it.
I for one, can't picture Teagan going along with it. What did the mages do? Attack Redcliff from the inside as they invaded? After all, if Teagan was sold but Fiona spared, I can only imagine she was seen a collaborator.
 
(That's a rhetorical question, don't spoil it, please)

Alright then, play the game and make judgement. But one does not say "No" to Tevinter, there are more than enough Tevinter units by the time the infiltration is exposed, but they don't "convince" Fiona, its intimidation. She rejects, the mages die, if Tevinter doesn't kill her and mages they weaken them enough to be easy prey for Tempars. Mages look up to Fiona so Teviner needs her, without her mages will not follow Tevinter. Tevinter plays everyone here, their plan is flawless.

[Hellion Rex]

I'll make my own judgment once I acquire the game (European) but, so far, if I didn't know better I'd call the mages the villains. Taken in as refugees and then selling their benefactors as slaves? Not very defensible

As for their options, from what I heard in this video and seen in others, Tevinters infiltrated the mage rebellion and encouraged Fiona to ally with Tevinter but, at the end of the day, it was entirely her choice. All she had to do was say "No" to it.
I for one, can't picture Teagan going along with it. What did the mages do? Attack Redcliff from the inside as they invaded? After all, if Teagan was sold but Fiona spared, I can only imagine she was seen a collaborator.

(That's a rhetorical question, don't spoil it, please)

It's complicated. You at least get to speak decently with Fiona before having to pick the quest line you wish to pursue. I suggest taking advantage of that, even though I know you will probably follow the templar quest line.

As an aside, both quests were really well done and enthralling.

[Hellion Rex]

Alright then, play the game and make judgement. But one does not say "No" to Tevinter, there are more than enough Tevinter units by the time the infiltration is exposed, but they don't "convince" Fiona, its intimidation. She rejects, the mages die, if Tevinter doesn't kill her and mages they weaken them enough to be easy prey for Tempars. Mages look up to Fiona so Teviner needs her, without her mages will not follow Tevinter. Tevinter plays everyone here, their plan is flawless.

Even if I choose pull the mages' asses out of the fire, desperation ain't good enough to justify the sheer idiocy of the choice she made. Indenturing yourself to Tevinter was literally the worst thing she could have chosen.

[Br3admax]

Alright then, play the game and make judgement. But one does not say "No" to Tevinter, there are more than enough Tevinter units by the time the infiltration is exposed, but they don't "convince" Fiona, its intimidation. She rejects, the mages die, if Tevinter doesn't kill her and mages they weaken them enough to be easy prey for Tempars. Mages look up to Fiona so Teviner needs her, without her mages will not follow Tevinter. Tevinter plays everyone here, their plan is flawless.

I played the game, and he's spot on in pretty much everything. What you're doing is just mage apology. 

[Hellion Rex]

I played the game, and he's spot on in pretty much everything. What you're doing is just mage apology.

I'm curious. Which line did you pick?

[herkles]

Question: can you meet Alistair In game even if you side with the Templars? ie does he show up later in the game. Same thing for Anora.

[Lulupab]

Even if I choose pull the mages' asses out of the fire, desperation ain't good enough to justify the sheer idiocy of the choice she made. Indenturing yourself to Tevinter was literally the worst thing she could have chosen.

The alternative is much worse. Come on people, how are you guys missing this?
 

I played the game, and he's spot on in pretty much everything. What you're doing is just mage apology.

Of course you'd say this, given that you have openly claimed mages should submit and die. If Templars are using demons and red lyrium, why shouldn't Fiona accept help from Tevinter? You expect her to die and let her mage brethren die with her?. You know the irony here is not a single mage slips and becomes an abomination, not like you lout always advocate mages are time bombs. 

[Br3admax]

Of course you'd say this, given that you have openly claimed mages should submit and die.

Go ahead and find the quote where I said this, while playing mage. I'll wait. 

[Br3admax]

If Templars are using demons and red lyrium, why shouldn't Fiona accept help from Tevinter? You expect her to die and let her mage brethren die with her?. You know the irony here is not a single mage slips and becomes an abomination, not like you lout always advocate mages are time bombs. 

Or they could, you know, stay under the protection of all of Ferelden which is far greater than any force the Templars could possibly muster half starved. 

[Bigdoser]

Honestly at the end of the day both sides messed up the mages for allowing the Tevinter to trick them and the templars for the red lyrium and demon nonsense. Considering the explanation from cole about the "song" I think both sides are on even playing fields when it comes to possible "corruption". 

 

Trying to say which side is better at this point is foolish its just as question do you prefer redemption as allies? Or conscript said side for their crimes? Now that is up to personal opinion. 

[Lulupab]

Go ahead and find the quote where I said this, while playing mage. I'll wait.

In Templar order support thread, you said its better to side with Templars because being addicted is worse than death of mages.
 

Or they could, you know, stay under the protection of all of Ferelden which is far greater than any force the Templars could possibly muster half starved.

Redcliff would have burnt, red Lyrium and demons is not something Ferelden is prepared for, not to mention the huge distance between Redcliff and Denerim. Mages would have surely get decimated. Even Alistair and Anora see it, they just cannot let her stay after what has happened to people of Redcliff. 

Honestly at the end of the day both sides messed up the mages for allowing the Tevinter to trick them and the templars for the red lyrium and demon nonsense. Considering the explanation from cole about the "song" I think both sides are on even playing fields when it comes to possible "corruption". 
 
Trying to say which side is better at this point is foolish its just as question do you prefer redemption as allies? Or conscript said side for their crimes? Now that is up to personal opinion.

I'm just arguing with people who thought Fiona is the devil herself and worshiped Lambert. Templars were people's favorite and respected and therefore their fall has been more grand, pro-templars has hard time dealing with this so attacking Fiona is the easy way out. I'm merely countering any argument that Fiona or mages are any worse than Templars, not even slightly. Although I firmly believe Tevinter is still better than demons and red Lyrium. Not to mention the Mages are openly tricked and intimidated into siding with Tevinter. It doesn't excuse what happened but still they need to be acknowledged.

[Br3admax]

I'm curious. Which line did you pick?

Templars. 

[Jetblackbird]

Honestly, they are both pretty bad, but Fiona was truly desperate. They had no one else to turn to, particularly since the Tevinters used TIME magic to get there and infiltrate before anyone else could do anything. The Tevinters went there on purpose- they made an offer Fiona could not refuse. This all happened 2 days after the conclave exploded... Fiona probably thought that at least through Tevinter they would live, instead of the general populous turning on them and killing them Vivienne mentioned it- everyone is more afraid of magic now than ever. Fiona was protecting her people the only way she could see how. If she tried to refuse them, who knows what they would have down in retaliation?

 

Also, if you side with the Templars don't the mages end up brainwashed? Alexius very well could have already been putting the mages of Redcliffe under some form of mind control, or at least influencing them.

[Br3admax]

In Templar order support thread, you said its better to side with Templars because being addicted is worse than death of mages.

Actually, no I didn't. Go get the quote, because either you misinterpreted me, or you're just making it up. 

Redcliff would have burnt, red Lyrium and demons is not something Ferelden is prepared for, not to mention the huge distance between Redcliff and Denerim. Mages would have surely get decimated. Even Alistair and Anora see it, they just cannot let her stay after what has happened to people of Redcliff. 

Actually, that stuff happens anyway, so what is your point, there's no reason Fiona wouldn't think it would happen either. Finally, a small contingent of Tevinter psychos can't combat an entire country. The mages could have easily fought with Ferelden, who protected them, instead they sold them out, into slavery of all things. Guess Fiona's memory isn't that long when it concerns her doing wrong.