13 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It appears that we cannot backtrack in the skill tree which is just a massive disappointment.

 

What I mean by this ?

 

Say you want Looked Like It Hurt and Hook & Tackle but you did not care for Caltrops. Naturally the logical thing to do is go down the Poisoned Weapons' side, take Hook & Tackle and then take Looked Like It Hurt. 

 

The same story goes in the Storm tree as well where I want Gathering Storm and Conductive Current but not want Energy Barrage. So I would take Chain Lightning, take Lightning Bolt and then backtrack by taking Gathering Storm, Static Charge and Conductive current.

 

Except that I cannot do this. It appears that I have to invest in skills I do not want thereby wasting precious skill points. 

 

Why ?

 

In the description for Conductive Current, there is nothing that says, "Energy Barrage Required". In the description for Looked Like It Hurt, there is nothing that says "Requires Caltrops".

 

 Players should be allowed to be imaginative and be allowed to backtrack to take alternate routes along a skill tree should they choose to.

 

Bioware has already limited ability in combat to 8. They have already limited healing. They have already limited our weapon choices for classes. Now they don't allow us to spend our skill points in ways we see fit ?

 

I sincerely hope Bioware fixes this with a patch. This is an annoying nuisance. 

[Torrential]

I do agree. 

I don't like taking skills I am not going to use or benefit from. If they link up I should be able to take them.

[The Elder King]

I honestly didn't think backtracking would be allowed, and I doubt it'll be fixed. It was likely intentional.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I honestly didn't think backtracking would be allowed, and I doubt it'll be fixed. It was likely intentional.

 

For what reason ? The skills and passives have no relation to one another.

 

They are just arranged there. In DA 2 at least we had text saying "so-and-so is required"

 

What was the point of making it intentional ? To make us waste skill points on skills we do not need, even though most players have realistically 25 skill points to work with ? To encourage linearity and discourage creative ability choices ? To make players waste skill points for abilities they will never use as part of their build ? To waste players' skill points when there is already an 8 ability in combat limitation ? 

 

This is bullshite. The mechanic is unnecessary, it makes the skill trees very linear, makes imaginative levelling not possible and it should be patched out. 

[LinksOcarina]

For what reason ? The skills and passives have no relation to one another.

 

They are just arranged there. In DA 2 at least we had text saying "so-and-so is required"

 

What was the point of making it intentional ? To make us waste skill points on skills we do not need, even though most players have realistically 25 skill points to work with ? To encourage linearity and discourage creative ability choices ? To make players waste skill points for abilities they will never use as part of their build ? To waste players' skill points when there is already an 8 ability in combat limitation ? 

 

This is bullshite. The mechanic is unnecessary, it makes the skill trees very linear, makes imaginative levelling not possible and it should be patched out. 

 

Since when did Dragon Age as a series have imaginative leveling? In Origins you had line trees filled with junk you had to sift through, and Dragon Age II had it gated with requirements as you said. So what did you honestly expect? 

 

And based on what ive played, the method to it is due to passives being tied to increasing attributes, not the most efficient method, but one that works none the less. Good think the cap is like level 30 or 35, or something like that. Hell i'm already level 10 and I am barely out of the Hinterlands or the Fallow Mire yet. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Since when did Dragon Age as a series have imaginative leveling? In Origins you had line trees filled with junk you had to sift through, and Dragon Age II had it gated with requirements as you said. So what did you honestly expect? 

 

And based on what ive played, the method to it is due to passives being tied to increasing attributes, not the most efficient method, but one that works none the less. Good think the cap is like level 30 or 35, or something like that. Hell i'm already level 10 and I am barely out of the Hinterlands or the Fallow Mire yet. 

 

DAO has linear skill ines.

 

DA2 had requirement gates.

 

DAI's skill tree have NEITHER. They do not have requirement gates on their description and their shapes are not linear.

 

So it follows that players should be allowed to backtrack. 

 

Wasn't one of the biggest arguments against DAO was that there were too many unnecessary abilities and against DA2 was that there were too many gates ? 

 

So why is Bioware making us take abilities we do not want to have and putting invisible requirement gates ? 

[LinksOcarina]

DAO has linear skill ines.

 

DA2 had requirement gates.

 

DAI's skill tree have NEITHER. They do not have requirement gates on their description and their shapes are not linear.

 

So it follows that players should be allowed to backtrack. 

 

Wasn't one of the biggest arguments against DAO was that there were too many unnecessary abilities and against DA2 was that there were too many gates ? 

 

So why is Bioware making us take abilities we do not want to have and putting invisible requirement gates ? 

 

Like I said, it was likely to tie to the attribute level ups with the passives,seems like the most likely culprit. Although I guess I should test this for myself.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Like I said, it was likely to tie to the attribute level ups with the passives,seems like the most likely culprit. Although I guess I should test this for myself.

 

I still maintain that we should have the choice to backtrack. I don't really care about attributes in the passives, I want the passives because of what they do. For example Gathering Storm reduces your cooldown but it is below a passive I do not want or do not care for.

 

Theoretically, what I could do is pick Lightning Bolt which I want and then pick Gathering Storm. Then, since I would really like Conductive Current, I want to backtrack up by picking Static Charge first. 

 

This way, I only will spend 7 skill points. 2 for Chain Lightning, 2 for Lightning Bolt, 3 for passives.

 

If I cannot backtrack, I will have to spend 9 points (2 Chain Lightning, 2 Lightning Bolt, 3 passives, 1 Energy Barrage, 1 Stormbringer). I have already wasted 2 skill points which I could have put elsewhere. 

 

The same goes with the Sabotage Tree for Rogues. I want Poisoned Weapons, Hook & Tackle and Looked Like it Hurt. Theoretically, it will cost me 7 skill points, 2 for Poisoned Weapons, 2 for Hook & Tackle, 2 for Poison Passives, 1 for Looked Like It Hurt.

 

As it stands now, without backtracking, I would have to spend 8 skill points because of Caltrops. 1 skill point is wasted which I could have put elsewhere.

 

Add this to the fact that I only have 8 ability I can use in combat. Yeah you can switch but has anyone done any constant switching ? How are Caltrops related to stamina regeneration in any way ? How can chaining lightning and a homing spell be related to cooldown reduction and spell damage increase ? They aren't.

 

Also what exactly happens if we are allowed to backtrack ? I do not think it will be game-breaking in any way. I honestly want the passives like Looked Like It Hurt for the stamina regeneration, not for the dexterity increase. I want passives like Gathering Storm and Conductive Current to reduce cooldown times and increase spell damage, not for their magic on unlocks. 

[lastpawn]

It's true that this design decision reduces player choice. However, if it was intentional and designed around, that's fine.

 

My take on this is that the game should have been upfront and stated: You cannot backtrack. There is no reason to think that you can't. The UI doesn't suggest it, and the game at no point clearly states it either (unless I missed it).

[Morroian]

It's true that this design decision reduces player choice. However, if it was intentional and designed around, that's fine

 

Its not fine, its poor design in a game where they are so restrictive in abilities anyway. If you can only use 8 they shouldn't force you to waste abilities.

[IcyThalus]

Clearly the trees are connected in some places to allow for both branches of the tree to take a key skill, but are not meant to be used as a bridge to the bottom (IE most powerful abilities) end of the opposite "branch". Doing this would make characters OP as the game is currently designed. I imagine that the game was designed to encourage players to be creative with skills between the different trees, and if you so choose, to specialize in both branches of the same tree at the expense of the other trees.

 

Clearly BW knew the limitation they were putting in here. If you are complaining about "restrictive ability choice", then why not just complain about trees in general because they prevent you from takeing any ability you want without having to spend other points?

 

Basically, welcome to the world of RPGs and branching skill trees.

[LinksOcarina]

Its not fine, its poor design in a game where they are so restrictive in abilities anyway. If you can only use 8 they shouldn't force you to waste abilities.

 

Any RPG's out there that are not restrictive then? 

[Torrential]

Any RPG's out there that are not restrictive then? 

Plenty if you really want a list, but surely you can see asking this with as many titles as we have RPG's is futile. There are probably I dunno 5 thousand RPG's to tailor an answer at this point in time, quite possibly a lot more than that we can find to hand information on.

It'd be better to define the question a bit more.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It's true that this design decision reduces player choice. However, if it was intentional and designed around, that's fine.

 

My take on this is that the game should have been upfront and stated: You cannot backtrack. There is no reason to think that you can't. The UI doesn't suggest it, and the game at no point clearly states it either (unless I missed it).

 

Precisely. They should have did what they did with Dragon Age two which is to just say that this skill is needed to unlock this passive.

 

This whole bullshite just gives the illusion of choice and the reality of constriction. I'd rather have the reality of constriction right up front.