53 réponses à ce sujet

[Siddarth90]

The game runs absolutely fine on my laptop - a dual core with pyperthreading - after the driver fix.

 

You're mistaking "number of cores" with "power of CPU". That's not how it works.

This.

[Siddarth90]

People are getting too high headed with the "Your system doesn't have a quad core CPU, buy a new one or just don't bother complaining". Bioware should be coming out with an explanation as to why a quad core CPU is the minimum requirement, why a game will not run on a dual core system even though dual core processors with hyper threading are able to run the game as they really have just two cores, all hyper threading does is simulate 4 cores functioning by running 4 threads to process data using what is still just 2 cores.

[b0709]

That is true, the number of cores might be an indication for the overall power of a CPU, but it is by no means a definitive benchmark. CPUs with 4 cores have been produced for years, just as CPUs with 2 cores are still produced. And benchmarks will often show those to be generally faster than some older CPUs with 4 cores.

For years, games didn't even make any use of the multi-core structure of modern CPUs except for the parts that the OS did for all applications anyway. It is important to understand that programmers will normally not design their software for a specific number of cores. When programmed properly, of course the speed of the application will scale with the number of cores, but that also means that it will just run slower on less cores.

I can only repeat myself that no one who really thinks their software needs a specific number of cores would simply allow it to crash with no feedback at all if it runs on less cores. A simple message would be enough to tell the user what the matter is, though I certainly hope that this will not be the supposed solution that BioWare will present us with.

It might even be that like in Mass Effect 2, this does not even affect the actual game engine but some library that is supposed to display the intro and other videos, or maybe the sound since the intro music often plays for a few seconds before the game crashes. But of course we can only speculate, and I think it would really not be asked too much of BioWare to at least let us know a bit more about the reasons for this issue.

[Etragorn]

I am upset over this.. back in April when I pre-ordered the game, Bioware had no minimum requirements posted. I went by another sites requirements. so, I upgraded my OS and upgraded my graphics card..
I have dual core Intel @2.70GHz that has nothing wrong with it...
 
I could not play the game I waited months for. So.. I have purchased an upgrade CPU quad core with 4 threads... I should be able to install it Monday and play the game sometime next week. I'm sorry, but I could not afford at this time to get a new computer.. as stated above... so play another game.. man you are a cruel person...

This is what you get for going by another sites requirements. It's silly to buy ahead of time based on information other than that released by the developer.

[AlanC9]

People are getting too high headed with the "Your system doesn't have a quad core CPU, buy a new one or just don't bother complaining". Bioware should be coming out with an explanation as to why a quad core CPU is the minimum requirement, why a game will not run on a dual core system even though dual core processors with hyper threading are able to run the game as they really have just two cores, all hyper threading does is simulate 4 cores functioning by running 4 threads to process data using what is still just 2 cores.

So you're saying that Bio should tell us why the game requires 4 processor threads? Might be interesting, I guess, but ultimately not very relevant. Even assuming one is tech-savvy enough to understand the answer if they gave it.

[Szaby59]

Here is my CPU usage (Everything max, no AA) during a small fight, 4 threads are absolutely necessary.

 

i7 4790 with HT (8 threads) 55-60 FPS

 

 

After forcing the game to use only 4 threads: 45-60 FPS

 

 

With 2 threads the game is unplayable ~15 FPS

 

I'm not sure how much from this usage is caused by Denuovo DRM, but I'm glad they used Frostbite at least the engine can take advantage of more than 4+ threads.

[AlanC9]

I can only repeat myself that no one who really thinks their software needs a specific number of cores would simply allow it to crash with no feedback at all if it runs on less cores.

You sure about that? Over the years I've had plenty of games fail hard when my PC was below min. I agree that it's best practice to warn about this sort of thing, but it isn't universal in my experience. Anyway, better to crash right at launch than to fail 15 hours in.

[moxiegraphix]

I"m curious. Someone was testing out how the DRM affects SSDs last night, after someone reported the DRM was writing so much to SSDs it had the potential to harm them. In the process of debunking that tidbit they posted the game used about 2.3GB RAM and slightly more than one core (i7 with HT active). So I have to ask what the point behind a quad core requirement is.

 

In line with the OP, I didn't see the quad core requirements. Maybe I was willfully blind but I DID check the RAM and video card requirements (which I exceed). I'll be upgrading my rig here in the next few weeks (Santa is coming early to my house) but not everybody can. 

 

All that aside, if it was simply a dual core issue, those with quad cores would not be having the exact same problems (along with now people on Xbox and PS reporting the same black screen issue) in the exact same spot. That should be enough to tell people there's a real problem. As I said before, if you remove every single person with dual core complaining about this from the equation, you still have a significant number of people with the problem.

[AlanC9]

I"m curious. Someone was testing out how the DRM affects SSDs last night, after someone reported the DRM was writing so much to SSDs it had the potential to harm them. In the process of debunking that tidbit they posted the game used about 2.3GB RAM and slightly more than one core (i7 with HT active). So I have to ask what the point behind a quad core requirement is.

Could you link that?
 

In line with the OP, I didn't see the quad core requirements. Maybe I was willfully blind but I DID check the RAM and video card requirements (which I exceed). I'll be upgrading my rig here in the next few weeks (Santa is coming early to my house) but not everybody can.

Didn't see, or didn't believe? I don't know where you could see the RAM and video requirements without reading "quad-core."

[Jherock]

First of all, please do not move this thread to technical support. Certainly we can have a discussion about a general issue like this in a feedback forum.

As you are probably aware, this game crashes with a black screen when trying to run it on a PC with less than 4 CPU cores.

 

I don't think it's very respectful of your paying customers to tell them that they're just out of luck like one of your community managers did in the technical support forum. Hiding behind systems requirements isn't the solution to this matter either in my opinion.

I'd like to remind the programmers at BioWare that Mass Effect 2 had a very similar bug when it was released. Somehow the game would not run on single core CPUs, even though the Unreal Engine 3 was normally running perfectly fine on such PCs. It turned out that the game would always crash when a prerendered video was supposed to start. So users came up with the fix to simply replace all videos with blank files, of course preventing people from experiencing parts of the story, but at least they were able to play the actual game. Then someone found out that using a small tool (one for improved graphical FX that did nothing whatsoever to the DRM!) was able to make the game playable completely. Later, BioWare even released a fix for the game. Most single core CPUs were then perfectly able to run the game. This episode clearly shows that often there's no technical reason to demand a certain number of CPU cores. It was a software bug back then, and it is very likely that it's a similar bug this time.

Many games these days have rather high requirements, but at least they usually start and most run well, even more so if the player doesn't mind to reduce some graphical details and accept lower FPS or other issues that might occur. Furthermore, the number of cores of a CPU is not the only factor deciding its speed, let alone the speed of the whole PC they work in. There are still dual core CPUs made and sold, fast enough for many current games. Surely you don't want to exclude so many players from playing your game.

And please do not forget that especially fans of RPGs and BioWare games do not always have and until now never needed the newest hardware. I'm quite sure that there's a significant number of people who are currently unable to play the game they purchased or who have refrained from purchasing it now that they learned they wouldn't be able to run it. The number should be significant enough for you to care.

And you know that there's no way the game was supposed to behave like this. If you had truly intended to limit this game to 4 cores or more, you would have implemented a simple message box telling the user so at the start of the game, like any other programmer would. But as any other programmers, you know that there's no technical reason for a software to actually depend on a certain number of cores. Certainly it might run slower or might behave strangely here or there, but to crash at the start like this at an intro video before even beginning to really use the CPU is simply a sign of bugs in your software. Bugs that you can and should fix. It's more than likely that the actual game will run fine then, as did Mass Effect 2.

So please, show your paying customers a little respect and acknowledge this bug. Among other bugs users might encounter now that the game has been released, it might take a while to fix, but I'm sure most people would not mind to wait a bit for it. If you don't, this would be exactly one of those reasons why many customers have so little respect for EA and voted it for the worst company in the US twice in a row. I thought that was supposed to change.

Sorry, but your post made me laugh.  Customer service is almost non-existent anymore in life, but it most definitely is gone when it  comes to the net and online companies.  They all know full well IN ADVANCE of just what every problem is, and that they shouldn't release a product, but they do anyway.  Why?  Greed, and because there's not a darn thing any of us customers can do about it.

[b0709]

 

With 2 threads the game is unplayable ~15 FPS

 

On the contrary, you proved that there's at least no reason for the game to not even start. Maybe those 15 FPS could be increased by changing some settings, maybe some players would even still be able to enjoy the game that way. BioWare don't even need to support dual core CPUs officially, just allow us to start the game at least and find out if our PC is able to run the actual game or not.

[Szaby59]

On the contrary, you proved that there's at least no reason for the game to not even start. Maybe those 15 FPS could be increased by changing some settings, maybe some players would even still be able to enjoy the game that way. BioWare don't even need to support dual core CPUs officially, just allow us to start the game at least and find out if our PC is able to run the actual game or not.

 

That 15 was the max.

The game was unplayable with delayed moves and actions and then crashed so...

[audiomixr]

The DRM needs an entire core to decrypt the exe which not only shuts out duo core users but is killing about 30fps from everyones performance. Why do you think i7 multithread players are getting sub 60 framerates? Those same machines run BF4 on ultra @ +60 fps. Some of us are going to have to wait for Russian hackers to circumvent the DRM before paying customers can play this EA game. I'll bet your weight in gold that Bioware had no choice in what DRM scheme was used on their product.

[moxiegraphix]

Could you link that?
 

Didn't see, or didn't believe? I don't know where you could see the RAM and video requirements without reading "quad-core."

 

Here, this should be the link to the thread and the post: http://forum.bioware...his/?p=17808049

 

Totally didn't see it. My eyes moved right past that information. It's not that big of a deal, FOR ME, as I have been in a long, slow process to upgrade my rig. Got a new video card and power supply recently (my graphics in DA2 went from 'okay' to 'pow!' when I was FINALLY able to switch to the DX11 renderer). When I realized I'd missed one important part of the requirements i was bummed but not THAT bummed because, hey, I'm upgrading relatively soon. So I can't play immediately. I'll be able to soon. 

 

But I'll repeat, once again, if you remove the dual core users with the black screen, can't get to the menu issue from the equation, there are still plenty of people who meet the requirements (and several on consoles too) having the same issue. Which tells me it's not simply an issue of 'dual core vs quad core'. There's been conspiracy theories floating around that they somehow magically locked dual cores out (which would be a really stupid thing to do and one would think they would flash some stupid message at you telling you to upgrade like I got when I couldn't use DX11 on my old card with one game, it flat out told me why the game wasn't going to load). I don't think that's the issue. Otherwise, people who meet and/or exceed the minimum requirements wouldn't be having the exact same problem. In the exact same place. Always after the autosave warning and before the screen where the army marches up. People who should be able to run the game, can't.

[AlanC9]

I'll bet your weight in gold that Bioware had no choice in what DRM scheme was used on their product.

We really need to stop talking as if there was a difference between Bio and EA. It's sloppy thinking.

[AlanC9]

But I'll repeat, once again, if you remove the dual core users with the black screen, can't get to the menu issue from the equation, there are still plenty of people who meet the requirements (and several on consoles too) having the same issue. Which tells me it's not simply an issue of 'dual core vs quad core'. There's been conspiracy theories floating around that they somehow magically locked dual cores out (which would be a really stupid thing to do and one would think they would flash some stupid message at you telling you to upgrade like I got when I couldn't use DX11 on my old card with one game, it flat out told me why the game wasn't going to load). I don't think that's the issue. Otherwise, people who meet and/or exceed the minimum requirements wouldn't be having the exact same problem. In the exact same place. Always after the autosave warning and before the screen where the army marches up. People who should be able to run the game, can't.

I concur. This makes the Denuvo conspiracy-theory a little less plausible, since if it was just a matter of needing an extra thread, rigs with that thread wouldn't crash the same way rigs without it do.

[Tookah45]

 It's silly to buy ahead of time based on information other than that released by the developer.

 

You mean like this information?

 

"PC is basically our lead platform because we all develop on the PC,"

"So we develop on that first and foremost and then we keep the other platforms up and running to make sure they don't fall behind."

http://www.videogame...nquisition.html

 

The information that clearly states their "main focus" was PC? Even to the extent other platforms were merely "kept from falling behind?"

[luna1124]

Yes, well everyone makes mistakes, and hind-site doesn't help me now, does it

 

http://forum.bioware...m-requirements/

[Etragorn]

When will people stop harping on the DRM? I haven't noticed there even is any DRM, except for needing Origin to play it.

[Tookah45]

When will people stop harping on the DRM? I haven't noticed there even is any DRM, except for needing Origin to play it.

 

That's because there is no DRM beyond requiring Origin to play. Origin is DRM, just like Steam is DRM. Denuvo is tamper protection for the .exe to (unsuccessfully, give it a week or two, especially for a game this hyped) try to stop people cracking the .exe for pirated copies. John Q. Moron just likes to knee-jerk post in all the doomsday threads someone who doesn't know what they're talking about started and not read for themselves. It's been explained many times in many threads, both here and Reddit. At this point it's best to just ignore anyone who says anything about Denuvo and let them circlejerk until they're satisfied and go to sleep.

[Conduit0]

Either they have a poor QA team, or the QA team tested the game without DRM and found it OK. Think of it.

Or, the QA team did its job and discovered the game was unplayable on dual core CPUs, which is why quad core was listed as the minimum system requirement.

And before anyone responds with, "But quad core people are having the same problem!" No, they're most likely NOT having the same problem. Different problems can result in similar symptoms.

Szaby59's test results already show us that the game is heavily multithreaded and that it becomes unplayable with only two threads. Any arguing beyond that is pointless unless you can provide actual counter evidence.

[Pootmatoot]

Or, the QA team did its job and discovered the game was unplayable on dual core CPUs, which is why quad core was listed as the minimum system requirement.

And before anyone responds with, "But quad core people are having the same problem!" No, they're most likely NOT having the same problem. Different problems can result in similar symptoms.

Szaby59's test results already show us that the game is heavily multithreaded and that it becomes unplayable with only two threads. Any arguing beyond that is pointless unless you can provide actual counter evidence.

 

 

 

I'm playing on a mix of medium and lows on a dual core, and it's running very nicely. I don't even have a graphics card! It's an integrated Intel system. All I needed was a slightly archaic driver set. This isn't a hardware issue. This is a software issue.

 

You know.... it's exactly the sort of ultrabook that makes up over 60% of all PCs sold last year. That's quite a large chunk for PC QA people to not have tested on...