1627 réponses à ce sujet

[Downluck]

Any pics out there of male elves in heavy armor?  Wondering if i should bite the bullet and just roll one, if they look ok in battlemaster armor I could learn to accept it.

[Lord Surinen]

Any pics out there of male elves in heavy armor?  Wondering if i should bite the bullet and just roll one, if they look ok in battlemaster armor I could learn to accept it.

I think it is heavy armourL clipping. Anyway your arms are going to be glued.

 

[knotsofwonders]

That's how they should change elves in my opinion.

[spoiler]

 

TAKE MY MONEY!!

[Blue_Shayde]

I think it is heavy armourL clipping. Anyway your arms are going to be glued.

 

 

That's light armor, though. The warden battlemage armor for mages.

[Xhaiden]

Honestly, I've officially shelved the game now while I wait for a patch to fix this. Which sucks. Because I really want to play it with a desire that borders on unhealthy perversion. But I don't want to be a human mage ( mainly because you're effectively saddled with the Human Noble origin even as a mage ) and male Qunari mage's just look silly. 

 

I want to be a mage and an elf. I want the entire world to look down upon me and regard me with a mixture of fear and disgust. So that I may jingle my elf berries in front of them as I smugly save the world.

[tmp7704]

In short, a man's hips are not supposed to be wider then their shoulders. That's just how proportions work. How the male skeleton works. My inner artist is cringing painfully in a tight ball.

To be fair, that's rules for human proportions. If for whatever reasons (say, being fed up with the "DA elves are just humans with pointy ears, we demand something alien!" complaints) they've decided to make different species have some actually different proportions, that's their prerogative.

Could they've done it differently and/or put more work into it? Sure. But i think it's more of a choice thing than 'not knowing the basics', seeing how they got the basics pretty good for that one species which actually uses the human proportions.

[Xhaiden]

To be fair, that's rules for human proportions. If for whatever reasons (say, being fed up with the "DA elves are just humans with pointy ears, we demand something alien!" complaints) they've decided to make different species have some actually different proportions, that's their prerogative.

Could they've done it differently and/or put more work into it? Sure. But i think it's more of a choice thing than 'not knowing the basics', seeing how they got the basics pretty good for that one species which actually uses the human proportions.

 

Its a matter of anatomical function though. Elves are a sapien race. They wouldn't be functional bipeds with their legs sticking out of their pelvis on angle like that. Nor would their shoulders be working properly. Never mind whatever horror is going on with their internal organs. 

 

Anatomy needs to work. Mechanically speaking. 

[tmp7704]

Its a matter of anatomical function though. Elves are a sapien race. They wouldn't be functional bipeds with their legs sticking out of their pelvis on angle like that.

Aren't the elves from waist down direct copy of the human model? http://forum.bioware...5#entry17970178

Nor would their shoulders be working properly. Never mind whatever horror is going on with their internal organs. 
 
Anatomy needs to work. Mechanically speaking.

The "issue" with elf arms is, with the shoulders not wider than the pelvis they resemble more the human female proportions instead of human male. But that doesn't mean they couldn't work properly -- as evidenced by a few billions of women out there.

[Lord Surinen]

That's light armor, though. The warden battlemage armor for mages.

Oopsie. Oopsie twice, no patch for us. Another weekend another salty tear mining through the pores of my barren cheek.

 

Elves remains broken.

[Sporothrix]

Extremely narrow shoulders are also female elf problem. They just look disfigured. Devs had to see that, because Sera, just like Solas, has much wider shoulders than elf PC.

 

I just don't get who could think it was a good idea.

[Xhaiden]

Aren't the elves from waist down direct copy of the human model? http://forum.bioware...5#entry17970178

The "issue" with elf arms is, with the shoulders not wider than the pelvis they resemble more the human female proportions instead of human male. But that doesn't mean they couldn't work properly -- as evidenced by a few billions of women out there.

 

Not quite, that's actually the entire problem. They maintain the same stance from about half way down the pelvis. But their pelvis is not as wide as the human model's and it narrows towards the top. So they need to be somewhat bowlegged to have the same stance as the human model. That's why it looks so weird. Its like the entire model is being squeezed the higher up the body you go. The feet start human and it gets more and more narrow from there.  

 

As for the shoulders, when the elf model is not trying to fist its own kidneys, the shoulders are really tight to the body to the point where the pectoral muscles are deformed and anatomically incorrect ( which is also what's given the male elf pseudo breasts ).

 

As was already demonstrated most of the model's problem could be fixed by simply adjusting the width of the upper body to give a proper, functional anatomy to the poor bastard. 

[Xhaiden]

Extremely narrow shoulders are also female elf problem. They just look disfigured. Devs had to see that, because Sera, just like Solas, has much wider shoulders than elf PC.

 

I just don't get who could think it was a good idea.

 

Sera actually straight up uses the human female body model when not in player specific armours.

 

Seriously, look at her in her default armour. 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Downluck]

Perhaps it came up early in development that no one liked Solas and Sera as they were, because they were hideous distorted elf-things and no playtester or focus group could like them and thus they were buffed up to more human proportions.  But why wasn't this consideration extended towards player avatars?  It's almost like they don't care.  Almost.

[Kiitosu]

Perhaps it came up early in development that no one liked Solas and Sera as they were, because they were hideous distorted elf-things and no playtester or focus group could like them and thus they were buffed up to more human proportions.  But why wasn't this consideration extended towards player avatars?  It's almost like they don't care.  Almost.

Sera has human body, i don't really remember but i think she is unable to equip elven armour. Sera is exactly human with pointy ears.

Solas has the same problems as PC elf, it's just his default outfit hides his weird narrow shoulders better.

[tmp7704]

Not quite, that's actually the entire problem. They maintain the same stance from about half way down the pelvis. But their pelvis is not as wide as the human model's and it narrows towards the top. So they need to be somewhat bowlegged to have the same stance as the human model. That's why it looks so weird.

I went as far as to make measurement, and the width difference at the top of the pelvis is 10% I'm sorry, I can't help but consider such minor difference to result in a complaint how it'd make them "not functional bipeds"... downright absurd. Not in the least because this difference doesn't actually affect the hip joints and legs (and their stance) in general.

Whether that looks "weird" is another matter, and like I mentioned it looking "weird" may well be the whole point why it's not a 100% copy of human proportions. It's not the whole model being squeezed in this way though, the line where the taper starts is roughly along the bottom line of their underwear.

As for the shoulders, when the elf model is not trying to fist its own kidneys, the shoulders are really tight to the body to the point where the pectoral muscles are deformed and anatomically incorrect ( which is also what's given the male elf pseudo breasts ).
 
As was already demonstrated most of the model's problem could be fixed by simply adjusting the width of the upper body to give a proper, functional anatomy to the poor bastard.

The body is made more narrow, that much is clear. But i'll reiterate: this may well be an actual intention and attempt to make some sort of "alien looking" anatomy for a species that isn't after all human, by deviating it from the "proper" human proportions. Thus giving it the "proper" human proportions could be viewed as counter-intuitive by some. And I really don't think the changes they have gone with make the resulting character less functional.

In any case I'd refrain from taking such differences as a sign "they don't know how to do stuff right", because they do get this stuff quite right in the models which are actually supposed to appear human.

[Lord Surinen]

All is wonderful and blazing, but my dear elflings. this is not a time nor place to discuss design choice behind DAII elves.

 

Let's focus on our plight, deep, mind corrupting broken and glued arms. What we currently have is broken, We want a fix for male elves because they are unplayable within RP frame. What is botched, should be fixed.

[Kiitosu]

Well.. One thing we are sure about that they are working on patch.

I hope they do understand what they must fix first. 

Game Of The Year can't have playable race broken like that. No rights. No excuses. No.

[Lord Surinen]

Well.. One thing we are sure about that they are working on patch.

I hope they do understand what they must fix first. 

Game Of The Year can't have playable race broken like that. No rights. No excuses. No.

Indeed. GOTY with playable race broken would be beyond riciulous, especially after they have not provided us with the teased elf models. There is a lot of elf fans and definately majority of them do not come to forums, possibly many of them dropped male elves in favour of other races because they could not stand them.

[The Lovlend]

The ancient elven robes fixes the shoulder for male mage elven inquisitors for the most part. Nothing can save you from the default outfit though.

[Lord Surinen]

The ancient elven robes fixes the shoulder for male mage elven inquisitors for the most part. Nothing can save you from the default outfit though.

Yes, it saves you in the open world, but enter cutscene and your arms will be glued to the ribcage. Being forced to use one armour is horrible.

[Blue_Shayde]

A 10% size difference in the shoulders is all it takes for the arms to function incorrectly on the elf model.

 

Also, as a female, I can tell you that our shoulders are still usually at the same width as our hips, not less.

 

Regardless of what you claim as alien, Bioware promised that the elves would look great in this game. Not only do they not, but because of the botched modeling job, their arm rigging gets snapped to the chest and causes all sorts of unfortunate bugs and clipping.

 

Yes, it saves you in the open world, but enter cutscene and your arms will be glued to the ribcage. Being forced to use one armour is horrible.

 

Agreed. I went so long with just the DLC armor. Now I never want to take off the warden battlemage armor. That and it looks so damn awesome I just want to beat the game in it.

[Lord Surinen]

Agreed. I went so long with just the DLC armor. Now I never want to take off the warden battlemage armor. That and it looks so damn awesome I just want to beat the game in it.

I want to start the game. My playthough has already been delayed by 2.5 weeks.

[tmp7704]

Also, as a female, I can tell you that our shoulders are still usually at the same width as our hips, not less.

They aren't more narrow on the elf model as well. You can see it pretty easily on the picture few posts upthread.

And no, I don't think it's the smaller width that is causing the problem with the elf model, because it happens with certain meshes which implies weighting/skinning issues with these specific meshes, rather than the skeleton in general. Additionally keep in mind that you don't see this sort of problems with female models of other races, even though their shoulder and hips width are close to what we get with the male elves.

Regardless of what you claim as alien, Bioware promised that the elves would look great in this game. Not only do they not, but because of the botched modeling job, their arm rigging gets snapped to the chest and causes all sorts of unfortunate bugs and clipping.

What looks 'great' and what doesn't can be quite debatable, and for elves in particular we've seen these debates happening regularly since DA:O launch. It's a separate issue from the 'noodle arms' render bug which we've been told is being investigated. I'm pretty certain this is something they can fix without having to rework the character proportions (something which would involve considerably more work, as it'd mean having to rework all elf armours, rigs, animations and testing of all affected cinematics. Instead of just few affected meshes)

[Lord Surinen]

They aren't more narrow on the elf model as well. You can see it pretty easily on the picture few posts upthread.

And no, I don't think it's the smaller width that is causing the problem with the elf model, because it happens with certain meshes which implies weighting/skinning issues with these specific meshes, rather than the skeleton in general. Additionally keep in mind that you don't see this sort of problems with female models of other races, even though their shoulder and hips width are close to what we get with the male elves.

What looks 'great' and what doesn't can be quite debatable, and for elves in particular we've seen these debates happening regularly since DA:O launch. It's a separate issue from the 'noodle arms' render bug which we've been told is being investigated. I'm pretty certain this is something they can fix without having to rework the character proportions (something which would involve considerably more work, as it'd mean having to rework all elf armours, rigs, animations and testing of all affected cinematics. Instead of just few affected meshes)

Rework, more work? Did they put any work in male elf models? They must do it or one of the main races will remain broken. Game Of The Year, yes?

[tmp7704]

Did they put any work in male elf models?

Nope, all the armour meshes, animations and everything associated with the male elves just appeared on their hard drives out of thin air. No one lifted a finger to make it happen.

Hyperbole is fun, isn't it.