1627 réponses à ce sujet

[KondorHawx]

I have done nothing here except plead for reason and perspective on the reality of the situation, the industry and the process of game development. I am not the one that is quite literally rejecting reality in favour of their opinion while using exaggerated terms like "vile" or accusations of being an EA employee just because I am not as angry as he is. I suggest you actually read this entire thread if that is really the impression you hold of my place in it.

 

Lulz. I've been reading and following this forum since page 7 lol...but thanks for playing

[Blue_Shayde]

I will play with winter tree but it is because I adore frost effects. I don't get design choices very often. Why is fire considered more damaging than ice. i would rather get burnt than frostbitten, I would prefer a fire blast in my face than ice spike. Walking through fire wall would be much more pleasant than ramming ice wall. I guess I miss frost spells in form of damage.

Actually, its weird but Fire being the highest damage tree for mages is pretty much the cliche in most games with magic. Its like that in every game. Fire is high damage, ice slows and damages, lightning paralyses...etc...

 

I guess its because people think of fire and they think agressiveness and destruction? Who knows...

 

Personally, my favorite trees are Ice and Lightning. Plus the Winter Stillness skill that lets your mana regeneration increase when standing still is like a must for all my mage characters in DAI. Having barrier and the skill in the barrier tree that reduces your aggro is also worth the 2 point investment into the barrier tree.

 

Of course, its good to have one fire skill, one lightning skill, and one ice skill just to deal with elemental affinities in some monsters. (despair demon, wrath demon...etc)

 

Finally, Ice Wall is stupid. It could be so useful, but you can't attack over it, so you pretty much lock yourself out of fighting if you place an ice wall before you to protect you.

[Xhaiden]

Lulz. I've been reading and following this forum since page 7 lol...but thanks for playing

 

Then you shoud know better. Also, it doesn't exactly bolster your argument to respond like a 12 year old on tumblr. I assume you are hoping you can just wave this away by acting "cool" or something. But the funny thing is we can just go back to page 7 and work out from there. Lets see:

 

Some intial thoughts:

 

This completely ruined elf for me and it just gets worse and worse the further you get into the game. It starts out looking a little odd in the starting armour. Then gets weird by Haven. Then becomes a full on crime against nature by Skyhold. I'm seriously surprised it made it into the final game given how evident it is.

 

I could swear the male elf model is improperly rigged to the female elf skeleton.

 

 

Honestly, I've officially shelved the game now while I wait for a patch to fix this. Which sucks. Because I really want to play it with a desire that borders on unhealthy perversion. But I don't want to be a human mage ( mainly because you're effectively saddled with the Human Noble origin even as a mage ) and male Qunari mage's just look silly. 

 

I want to be a mage and an elf. I want the entire world to look down upon me and regard me with a mixture of fear and disgust. So that I may jingle my elf berries in front of them as I smugly save the world.

 

Patch 2:

 

To be completely honest I have given up on the single player and have been playing the multiplayer exclusively. I haven't even finished the game on any char yet. I wanted to play an elf, but I can't unseen the broken arms or the strung out heroin addict physique. I got a ways into the game with a human rogue but was repeatedly irked by having no special dialogue options and having a noble origin so I gave up on that char. 

 

I considered Qunari, but they have the opposite problem to elves. They're giant hulking meat trucks whose heads are forever clipping through armour and clothing collars in cut scenes. 

 

They need to take about 50lbs off the Qunari and give it to the Elves. 

 

 

The bickering between me and Surinen did not start till page 32 and began just as a seemingly innoconous discussion on multiplayer:

 

 

We are approaching 5th week. No news(except for multiplayer, check the main page: guides! so that you can get persuaded into buying things through microtransaction system), no communication. We are left alone.

 

 

Eh, the mutliplayer is most likely a different team like ME3 so I can't shift any of this on them. Also, for the record the micro transaction system is even more lenient than ME3's to the point of being superfluous to multiplayer. Gold is easy to earn and the DLC even seems to have increased gold drops.

 

It feels more like the micro transactions are there just because they technically have to be. Like, well, it's EA so we have to technically monetize it I guess. >.>

 

 

From my perspective it is a team wasted. Elves are still bugged. It does not help when they advertise new ways to spend your real money and provide content for it, while the singleplayer suffers.

 

 

Well, from mine, its not as I find multi quite enjoyable to kick around as do many people so ;p

 

But again, different team with a different development cycle. There's no reason the multiplayer team should delay the release of their work because the single player team screwed something up. Plus the multiplayer team is not working with the modular PC meshes or with the cutscene mode that are the problem in the single player game. So even if you did uproot them from their own work and forced them to work on the main game they might not actually be of much help. 

 

Besides, I highly doubt the issue is just a simple lack of resources on Bioware's end. It could be a lack of time ( due to management decisions or EA breathing down their necks ) or a lack of experience with the new engine or simply having to beat said new engine into doing what they want to begin with. The Frostbite engine is not an RPG engine, it was made to be an FPS engine, so a lot of DA:I still had to be built from the ground up. 

 

Then throw in the looming holiday season. 

 

 

There are no excuses. It should be shining. Time is one of resources and I expect them to drop everything until game is finished. That's it for me. I can listen to this kind of reasoning before game release 'we need more time, theres much to do'. After game release it should be ticking like a finest clock.

 

 

I'm presenting explanations, not excuses. I'm trying to be reasonable as being reasonable gets things accomplished easier than frothing hyperbole. Which typically gets you dismissed or ignored.

 

and that, as they say, is how this all began and I apparently began a pilgramage to reason. After that point ( which only spanned 2 pages or so ) a Bioware mod stepped in and things resumed normally. We didn't reply to one another directly. But Surinen began to sarcastically mention "reason" when not speaking to me from time to time.

 

Things resumed again on page 37 where we had an amiable discussion about publishers, Bethesda, Daggerfall, etc and what not even if we did disagree with each other. Our bickering did not resume until page 46 and lasted for about 2 pages again. Bringing the grand total of pages we have actually been bickering with each other to 4-5 or so out of 49.

 

So in closing, no, you have not been reading this thread since page 7. "Lulz".

 

 

[Xhaiden]

Actually, its weird but Fire being the highest damage tree for mages is pretty much the cliche in most games with magic. Its like that in every game. Fire is high damage, ice slows and damages, lightning paralyses...etc...

 

Yeah, it seems like just a cliche. Although in fairness DA:I makes fire more area denial then pew pew nuke like many games tend to do and Lightning is a great dps contributor as well. If they only had Fire, Ice and Lightning to work with, then yeah Ice is going to end up the crowd control / support one by the rules of gaming cliches.

 

I don't mind the Mage spell trees, just the stale mechanics where 95% of the abilities are ground target AoE cursors. Given that there are cone, pbaoe, aura, etc mechanics on other skills of other classes I don't see why Mage had to be so stale. Mage should have cone attacks, pbaoe attacks, auras, etc as well to encourage mobility and risk. Right now, most of the abilities are ground targetted AoEs and they all have the same casting range. Its not a very dynamic playstyle.

[LunaFancy]

So since the Dalish NPCs looking better than my guy in the same armour has depressed me enough to put the game down again, (will Lunafancy ever finish this game? Who knows- maybe if Bioware fox the elves...) I've decided to see if the warrior armour looks better from the start.

 

Being an idiot I decided to try to recreate Fenris ... Well, that was an endeavour and a half lol! 2 hrs later-  I give up, too hard by half I say! This is as good as I'll get it- though I'm chuffed to get the lyrium tatts looking alright.

 

Meet Fenriel  the two handed warrior, here's hoping he gets me through to the end of the game! Or at least until I can cope with Falandriel again. (Yess they all end in 'iel', I blame Katherine Kerr, ahhh Calonderial, you will always have a place in my heart alongside Rhodry.).

 

 

[Xhaiden]

So since the Dalish NPCs looking better than my guy in the same armour has depressed me enough to put the game down again, (will Lunafancy ever finish this game? Who knows- maybe if Bioware fox the elves...) I've decided to see if the warrior armour looks better from the start.

 

All the Dalish at the camp are wearing armour the PC can get. So....you had to put your character away because the other elves were sexier? >.>

 

Also, the Dalish guy that wants to join the Inquisition is wearing the male Dalish Warrior armour if you want to check it out in game and stare at him in awkward silence.

 

I was pondering an elven warrior myself to run similar tests on the base armours. So far the medium armours still really suit elves the best. Light armours look pretty awful. But to be bluntly honest they look bad on everyone. Even on my human mage the first order of business was finding faction/race armour ASAP. My human mage had similar arm clipping issues in cut scenes when wearing some of the light armours.

 

They're well detailed but they're all basically sleeveless coats and adding arm upgrades to them doesn't add sleeves. They also billow out too much at the waist and clip the hands a lot.

[Lord Surinen]

Actually, its weird but Fire being the highest damage tree for mages is pretty much the cliche in most games with magic. Its like that in every game. Fire is high damage, ice slows and damages, lightning paralyses...etc...

 

I guess its because people think of fire and they think agressiveness and destruction? Who knows...

 

Personally, my favorite trees are Ice and Lightning. Plus the Winter Stillness skill that lets your mana regeneration increase when standing still is like a must for all my mage characters in DAI. Having barrier and the skill in the barrier tree that reduces your aggro is also worth the 2 point investment into the barrier tree.

 

Of course, its good to have one fire skill, one lightning skill, and one ice skill just to deal with elemental affinities in some monsters. (despair demon, wrath demon...etc)

 

Finally, Ice Wall is stupid. It could be so useful, but you can't attack over it, so you pretty much lock yourself out of fighting if you place an ice wall before you to protect you.

I share the same sympathies with you, I would add force/rift to it too. Frost is the most beautiful of all trees, frozen enemies emanate with such a beautiful stillness. I would like to capture them and put in Skyhold, only to shatter them during the parties. Better than fireworks! I will most probably max the whole winter tree, just for the sake of rules I follow in the games; if there is frost, then dominate it!

 

All of that waits for the broken-glued elvhes fix. 'yay'

[LunaFancy]

The Dalish in The Exalted Plains aren't broken, unlike my guy. Up until then I could pretend that his shoulders looked better in the Dalish set, but then I saw how normal shouldered elves looked in it and it just annoyed the crap out of me. Some of us are affected by poor design, you clearly aren't but that doesn't change the fact that I am.

 

Xhaiden, I don't know why you feel the urge to troll people on this thread, I really don't. If it's not an issue for you, then good for you carry on having a blast. However, not having the irits over it doesn't make you a superior being, it just makes you someone who isn't annoyed by forking out good money for a broken product.

 

I spent a lot of time in CC making my elf the way I wanted him top look and at no point did a ten year old boy's physique with broken arms factor into that plan. It would be bad enough if ALL the elves looked like it- but to find out it really is just the player character? That's just freaking rude. Like, here you go guys, your elf will look like s**t in comparison to all the rest- have fun with it.

 

Just because you don't understand or share a viewpoint, does not mean that point of view is invalidated, I really do think you need to let that idea sink in.

[supertouch]

This is my first male elf. The model looks ok to me

 

[Xhaiden]

The Dalish in The Exalted Plains aren't broken, unlike my guy. Up until then I could pretend that his shoulders looked better in the Dalish set, but then I saw how normal shouldered elves looked in it and it just annoyed the crap out of me. Some of us are affected by poor design, you clearly aren't but that doesn't change the fact that I am.

 

Xhaiden, I don't know why you feel the urge to troll people on this thread, I really don't. If it's not an issue for you, then good for you carry on having a blast. However, not having the irits over it doesn't make you a superior being, it just makes you someone who isn't annoyed by forking out good money for a broken product.

 

I spent a lot of time in CC making my elf the way I wanted him top look and at no point did a ten year old boy's physique with broken arms factor into that plan. It would be bad enough if ALL the elves looked like it- but to find out it really is just the player character? That's just freaking rude. Like, here you go guys, your elf will look like s**t in comparison to all the rest- have fun with it.

 

Just because you don't understand or share a viewpoint, does not mean that point of view is invalidated, I really do think you need to let that idea sink in.

 

Excuse me?

 

I am not trolling anyone. Disagreeing with someone is not trolling. I have also never disagreed that elves have problems, quite the opposite as I just clearly demonstrated a couple posts up. Nor have I ever said your viewpoint was invalid. I've been using my own time to do everything I can with what the game provides to help you get an elf you can look at. I did not test armour combinations and cutscenes nor track down better looking armours for elves so that I could "troll" you or invalidate your viewpoint. I was trying to help while we wait for patch 3. How is that trolling?

 

My frustrations with Surinen also stem from his repeated rejection of how the game was developed and perception that he was somehow victimized by multiplayer. Not from a disagreement over whether or not the elves are broken. ( Well, that and he's been acting like a bigot, sexist and sociopath in other threads. -.- ) I suggest that you, like Kondor, need to pay more attention to the thread if this is the conclusion you have arrived at.

 

As for your current problem, I genuinely did not notice any difference in the Dalish NPCs vs my PC nor did you indicate in your original post that you were referring to a technical problem instead of just an aesthetic one. I thought you were unhappy with your elf's look and fubar because there's no method yet to change your appearence post character creator. Do you have any comparison screenshots of this? If there is a difference its actually very noteworthy in tracking down exactly what's going wrong and the more information we can provide the better.

[Xhaiden]

Okay, for starters I can tell you that there's no problem with the Dalish light armour in PC vs NPC.

 

Is the problem with the Scout armour? Can you go stand next to Golden Halla guy with the scout armour on? He's wearing scout armour.

 

Edit: Nope, no problem:

 

 

So what's happening in your game that isn't in mine?

 

Also, perhaps think twice before slinging out a trolling accusation next time.

[LunaFancy]

This is my first male elf. The model looks ok to me

 

 

They all start out okay in the mercenary coat, wait til you hit haven and the game changes your armour on you.

[Lord Surinen]

Okay, for starters I can tell you that there's no problem with the Dalish light armour in PC vs NPC.

 

Is the problem with the Scout armour? Can you go stand next to Golden Halla guy with the scout armour on? He's wearing scout armour.

 

Edit: Nope, no problem:

 

 

So what's happening in your game that isn't in mine?

 

Also, perhaps think twice before slinging out a trolling accusation next time.

PC for sure has broken right arm and it looks as if NPC too

[Blue_Shayde]

*sigh* Can we all just stop arguing and attacking each other? Everyone has their own opinion. Some people are more angry at Bioware then others, but that doesn't give anyone a right to defend Bioware like a paid employee.

 

If you guys want to argue about what is right or wrong to say about Bioware or assume about Bioware, or who is right and who is wrong, start a different topic and argue it.

 

You people are going to get this topic shut down if you keep this up.

 

 

I'm not wanting to be a horn blower here like a few others, but this is starting to get silly.

 

 

 

Also, those Dalish elves look broken from that angle in the picture as well.

[Lord Surinen]

*sigh* Can we all just stop arguing and attacking each other? Everyone has their own opinion. Some people are more angry at Bioware then others, but that doesn't give anyone a right to defend Bioware like a paid employee.

 

If you guys want to argue about what is right or wrong to say about Bioware or assume about Bioware, or who is right and who is wrong, start a different topic and argue it.

 

You people are going to get this topic shut down if you keep this up.

 

 

I'm not wanting to be a horn blower here like a few others, but this is starting to get silly.

 

 

 

Also, those Dalish elves look broken from that angle in the picture as well.

Really, there is no end to fractures in this game when it comes to elvhes.

[LunaFancy]

No doubt I will regret not just walking away from this thread at this point, but here we go- having taken considerable effort to have both of them in the same shot and facing the 'camera' at the same angle in the same pose...

 

 

You can see that the NPC has a broader chest and so correspondingly broader shoulders and is generally more adult looking than my guy (on the right).

 

Here is not quite so well matched angles. but closer and better lighting. It appears that the player model has a more tubular chest which is effectively reducing breadth of frame in the upper torso.

 

 

At any rate- the NPC looks better than the PC. At least to my eyes.

[Xhaiden]

*sigh* Can we all just stop arguing and attacking each other? Everyone has their own opinion. Some people are more angry at Bioware then others, but that doesn't give anyone a right to defend Bioware like a paid employee.

 

Sigh, your plea would ring more true without you doing the same thing.

 

Bioware needs to hurry up and fix this so we can talk about something else. -.-
 

[Xhaiden]

At any rate- the NPC looks better than the PC. At least to my eyes.

 

Not sure what to tell you. Your elf looks kind of odd to me as well. Not in regards to chest size exactly as I didn't see that with my elf next to him, but....I can't really put a finger on it. What preset did you start with? ( Lord I hope the preset/face shapes aren't doing something too ).

[Blue_Shayde]

 

You can see that the NPC has a broader chest and so correspondingly broader shoulders and is generally more adult looking than my guy (on the right).

 

Here is not quite so well matched angles. but closer and better lighting. It appears that the player model has a more tubular chest which is effectively reducing breadth of frame in the upper torso.

 

 

At any rate- the NPC looks better than the PC. At least to my eyes.

The first image, the npc elf does look way better. The second image, they look almost exactly the same...but the npc elf is still a bit broader and more filled out in his body size.

[Xhaiden]

The first image, the npc elf does look way better. The second image, they look almost exactly the same...but the npc elf is still a bit broader and more filled out in his body size.

 

<insert camera adds 10lbs joke here>

 

Actually, the Dalish elf seems to be standing at sort of full attention while the PC is doing his kind of one foot forward casual thing ( which tends to make his hand clip some armours, even on other races ). Maybe thats it.

[LunaFancy]

The first image, the npc elf does look way better. The second image, they look almost exactly the same...but the npc elf is still a bit broader and more filled out in his body size.

 

Yes, in the second one their angles are different, but you can clearly see that the pc elf has a more rounded, tubular shape to the torso which makes it narrower. Since the width of the shoulders/chest and over all weediness is my main issue with the model- I was miffed to see the NPC did not suffer the same deformity. If I'd been given the NPC model for my elf, I wouldn't have any complaints at all.

 

Anyway, my point has been made and as such, I rest my case.

[Blue_Shayde]

But so far the modders seemed to have only found one base male elf model. So I'm not sure why the npc would look fuller. Maybe its the effect of your PC's head and hair? The lighting? The angle?

 

Who knows...

[tisdfogg]

Yes, in the second one their angles are different, but you can clearly see that the pc elf has a more rounded, tubular shape to the torso which makes it narrower. Since the width of the shoulders/chest and over all weediness is my main issue with the model- I was miffed to see the NPC did not suffer the same deformity. If I'd been given the NPC model for my elf, I wouldn't have any complaints at all.

 

Anyway, my point has been made and as such, I rest my case.

 

Been following the thread for updates on the situation for some time and for what it's worth I agree with LunaFancy here. Before I straight up deleted my male elf I distinctly remember comparing him to some male elf NPC and something seemed way off. Back then I thought it was the different armour but seeing the screenshots now... Anyway I may just start an elf playthrough to try and replicate this in the Dalish camp. This may totally seem like a stupid question but bear in mind that I have no knowledge of programming whatsoever (seems like Xhaiden does): Is it possible that the bad animations somehow degrade the model overtime? Like the arms and shoulders get sucked in a little in major cutscenes making the chest look smaller than it should be? Again this is a layman's perspective but with everything else in the thread, the animations seem to be root of it all. 

[LunaFancy]

My character has a much smaller head, if that was the influence the chest would look bigger on him, not the other way round. It's the chest, perhaps the animation pulls it forward and makes it narrower? I don't know but the NPC is clearly broader and flatter. I wouldn't be surprised oif it turns out that the sinking arms and  narrow shoulders are all linked to some distortion of the torso that occurs because of the animation in the PC.

[Xhaiden]

But so far the modders seemed to have only found one base male elf model. So I'm not sure why the npc would look fuller. Maybe its the effect of your PC's head and hair? The lighting? The angle?

 

Who knows...

 

Yeah, thats why I was curious what preset he used. The jaw, neck and hair have a huge affect on the perception of the shoulders ( and general masculinity ) on elves. The neck in particular is something there's no slider for but does vary in thickness between presets/face shapes. Preset 4 in particular looks like a 14 year old girl because of the skinny neck and jaw line.

 

From the char pic Luna posted it looks like he/she is using one of the skinnier neck/jaw presets.

 

Where are my screenshots.....just using my elf mage as an example:

 

 

 

 

The neck and jaw width are so important on male elf its not funny. As is avoiding the bigger/wider hairstyles ( and thus the bobble head look ).