1627 réponses à ce sujet

[Xhaiden]

My character has a much smaller head, if that was the influence the chest would look bigger on him, not the other way round. It's the chest, perhaps the animation pulls it forward and makes it narrower? I don't know but the NPC is clearly broader and flatter. I wouldn't be surprised oif it turns out that the sinking arms and  narrow shoulders are all linked to some distortion of the torso that occurs because of the animation in the PC.

 

Possibly, the casual one foot forward pose the PC has has a few clipping issues with certain armours on ALL races as is. Hard to say without some mesh riggin' diggin' in the assets again. CheatEngine needs to look into a wireframe/textureless render mode. If we had a wireframe mode or a textureless render mode would clearly see any errant mesh deformation going on in real time.

[Xhaiden]

 Is it possible that the bad animations somehow degrade the model overtime? Like the arms and shoulders get sucked in a little in major cutscenes making the chest look smaller than it should be? Again this is a layman's perspective but with everything else in the thread, the animations seem to be root of it all. 

 

Its quite possible yes, and in fact now that you mention it the game does have a bug like this that I've seen where an animation frame gets stuck so to speak leaving the PC half stuck in a certain pose. It usually happens when transitioning in and out of combat. If an animation doesn't "return" back to the default pose the engine expects it to be in then begins a new animation then yes, horrific things can happen.

 

Additionally, the game is using some real time dynamic animations ( in regards to leg/foot placement vs terrain for example ) as well which have some intialization bugs. Which you may have occasionally noticed when first loading a zone or for a split second at the beginning of a cutscene. You or someone else's limbs will be horrifically contorted for a moment before moving into the proper place. You can see this in action when talking to Varric in Haven pretty often, he will half sink into the ground then his legs will snap to the terrain. Making it look like he's a certain stereotyping Russian dance as he bounces up and down.

 

So yes, acutally, it is possible the animation system itself is to blame instead of the art assets. In which case though it will be harder to fix too. ><

 

Eh, what the heck, let me run it by a coder colleague. I'm not a full on 100% code monkey myself.

 

Edit: Yep, quite possibly.

[tisdfogg]

Its quite possible yes, and in fact now that you mention it the game does have a bug like this that I've seen where an animation frame gets stuck so to speak leaving the PC half stuck in a certain pose. It usually happens when transitioning in and out of combat. If an animation doesn't "return" back to the default pose the engine expects it to be in then begins a new animation then yes, horrific things can happen.

 

Additionally, the game is using some real time dynamic animations ( in regards to leg/foot placement vs terrain for example ) as well which have some intialization bugs. Which you may have occasionally noticed when first loading a zone or for a split second at the beginning of a cutscene. You or someone else's limbs will be horrifically contorted for a moment before moving into the proper place. You can see this in action when talking to Varric in Haven pretty often, he will half sink into the ground then his legs will snap to the terrain. Making it look like he's a certain stereotyping Russian dance as he bounces up and down.

 

So yes, acutally, it is possible the animation system itself is to blame instead of the art assets. In which case though it will be harder to fix too. ><

 

Eh, what the heck, let me run it by a coder colleague. I'm not a full on 100% code monkey myself.

 

Edit: Yep, quite possibly.

 

Thanks for taking the time to ask a pro. And yes, I also recall the Russian dance bug, back then I thought it was hilarious, not so much anymore. 

 

If it's really that difficult to fix, I think modders and some neat workaround are our best bet. Seriously, if they could find a way to swap body models so I can put an elf head on a human body (like Sera for example), I can totally deal with the fact that I'm the only mega-buff/on steroids elf in Thedas.  

[Xhaiden]

Thanks for taking the time to ask a pro. And yes, I also recall the Russian dance bug, back then I thought it was hilarious, not so much anymore. 

 

If it's really that difficult to fix, I think modders and some neat workaround are our best bet. Seriously, if they could find a way to swap body models so I can put an elf head on a human body (like Sera for example), I can totally deal with the fact that I'm the only mega-buff/on steroids elf in Thedas.  

 

Design is my realm, not coding. I need to know something about everything but I defer to the programming gods on the nitty gritty. Once it goes past architecture and into scary things in parentheses I need to tag out. ;p

 

I actuallly find the human male too beefy to be honest. Which I think is one of the reasons elves seem so scrawny despite being the same proportions as DA2. Everyone else in Thedas beefed the hell up but the elves stayed the same. In fact come to think of It I'm willing to bet I know exactly what the problem is......yep!

 

The body proportions of the elf mesh are the same in DA2 and DA:I. But in DA:I the necks are shorter and the heads bigger. The elf body quite literally is too small for its head or visa versa. Elves were not playable in DA2 so they did not have to work with the character creator and what not. In DA:I their head size and features had to be normalized to the same assets and cinematic rigging as the other races. Which meant shorter necks and bigger heads:

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, the Human mesh proportions have been beefed up between the DA2 and DA:I human male mesh:

 

 

 

So there's your problem. Going from DA2 to DA:I, they kept the same elven body proportions while moving to the new head/neck size in DA:I. Whereas they increased the Human body proportions to match the new heads. In order to maintain proper proportion the Elven mesh should have likewise recieved an increase in bulk in the shoulders and arms.

 

That is why they look "wrong" even if you can't put your finger on the problem.

[KondorHawx]

Then you shoud know better. Also, it doesn't exactly bolster your argument to respond like a 12 year old on tumblr. I assume you are hoping you can just wave this away by acting "cool" or something. But the funny thing is we can just go back to page 7 and work out from there. Lets see:

 

Man, you are an incredibly unlikable and difficult person to communicate with . As you tried to prove with your own "12 year old on tumblr" response, reposting the numerous, previous comments, that you deem helpful and constructive, I say again, you are mostly negative (as proven even here), and seem to have a "I know better than you" type of vibe with some of your more recent responses. Therefore, I still hold my previous statement and suggestion that you please cool it down a bit and stop attacking everyone or telling them they're wrong. It's all passion and opinion, let it ride. I'm not waving anything away to be "cool" lol, that's silly. I want to wave it away because it stinks can we not all just get along already?

 

EDIT: I probably should have just PM'd you, sorry Xhaiden or anyone else annoyed by the bickering as we all well should be. On a side note, I'm not interested in continuing the conversation, so whether you're interested in accepting the cease fire or not, I'm going to stay out of any of the nonsense that anyone negatively posts from here on out. There are some good reads here still and honestly, I don't care about the rest

[KondorHawx]

Okay, for starters I can tell you that there's no problem with the Dalish light armour in PC vs NPC.

 

Is the problem with the Scout armour? Can you go stand next to Golden Halla guy with the scout armour on? He's wearing scout armour.

 

Edit: Nope, no problem:

 

 

So what's happening in your game that isn't in mine?

 

Also, perhaps think twice before slinging out a trolling accusation next time.

 

Hey, just an fyi Xhaiden, the player character in this shot (on the left) is indeed experiencing the inward-bendy, "broken arm" issue. That's exactly what everyone's talking about and actually, this is one of the least severe cases I've seen lol. The NPC looks like it's fine, but I can't really tell at that angle.

[KondorHawx]

Found another article on the upcoming Patch 3, but there's literally no new information here.

http://www.examiner....with-next-patch

 

Also ran into a fun little tidbit from IGN, but considering I haven't reached the end of the game due to the bug and my own personal choice, I did not read the article because it is said to contain major spoilers. I look forward to checking this out when I finish the game

READ AT YOUR OWN RISK GUYS! THE ARTICLE IN THE LINK CONTAINS END-GAME SPOILERS!

http://www.ign.com/a...n-a-huge-secret

[Xhaiden]

Man, you are an incredibly unlikable and difficult person to communicate with . As you tried to prove with your own "12 year old on tumblr" response, reposting the numerous, previous comments, that you deem helpful and constructive, I say again, you are mostly negative (as proven even here), and seem to have a "I know better than you" type of vibe with some of your more recent responses. Therefore, I still hold my previous statement and suggestion that you please cool it down a bit and stop attacking everyone or telling them they're wrong. It's all passion and opinion, let it ride. I'm not waving anything away to be "cool" lol, that's silly. I want to wave it away because it stinks can we not all just get along already?

 

If you are flippant with me, I will be flippant with you. You get what you give. Also, yet again, my problem in the thread has been with Surinen. Not with "everyone". And we had reached a somewhat amiable cease fire until he started on about the multiplayer again. It was not a matter of "telling them they're wrong". It was things which were demonstratably false just by watching the game's credits. >.>

 

As for negativity, 95% of this thread is negative and mine was definately not the most severe. I have been trying to work with what the game gives us to come up with decent looking elves as well as figure out what exactly is going wrong. You know, constructive things.

 

I am quite willing to stop with all this, as its pointless and tiring, but I resent the mischaracterization of my intentions and positions in the thread. When the only thing I did in the first place was try to inject some common sense and understanding about how this stuff works behind the scenes. As well as ask that we keep things reasonable because reasonable is the best way to be heard. For that I've been accused of any number of things from being an EA/Bioware employee to some sort of vile apolegetic like we're talking about some sort of bitter sociopolitical issue instead of a video game.

 

I have gone back and forth from being showered in likes by the very people harping on me to being the Anti-Christ from one page to the next just because I didn't 100% agree with someone's anger at the game in a given moment. Its ridiculous.

 

 

Hey, just an fyi Xhaiden, the player character in this shot (on the left) is indeed experiencing the inward-bendy, "broken arm" issue. That's exactly what everyone's talking about and honestly, this is one of the least severe cases I've seen lol. The NPC looks like it's fine, but I can't really tell at that angle.

 

Yes, I know he is ( hence all my floundering around earlier trying to find armour to hide his shame >.< ). The default conversation pose in cinematics is the worst offender for it. I didn't say my PC was fixed, just that he wasn't different/worse from the NPCs in the Dalish camp. ( IE they were both.....yeah ).
 

[Xhaiden]

Found another article on the upcoming Patch 3, but there's literally no new information here.

http://www.examiner....with-next-patch

 

 

Yeah, nothing new there sadly. Though that multiplayer bug is horrific and should have been hotfixed a while ago. It has the multiplayer community kinda split in half as some people uninstalled the DLC to avoid it.

 

I'm growing curious ( impatient ) about EA's certification process in regards to patching the game. Since it doesn't seem like they can roll out hotfixes easily for some reason. I wonder if its technical ( Frostbite ) or bureacratic ( Certification processes ). I've never done anything with the Frostbite engine but I don't like the sound of it from what I've read into about it.

 

Really should have stayed with the Unreal engine. But EA bought Frostbite so everyone gets to use it now ( or else I guess ). It sounds like they're going to use it for ME4 as well. Which has me wary as they have a lot to iron out of it as is.

[tmp7704]

The body proportions of the elf mesh are the same in DA2 and DA:I. But in DA:I the necks are shorter and the heads bigger. The elf body quite literally is too small for its head or visa versa.

Argh. Must we really go through this again? :/



black mesh is Fenris' head in DA2. White mesh is male elf head in DAI. As you can see there's no difference in placement and size.

edit: it wouldn't surprise me if Fenris' neck "felt" longer on these screenshots due to the tattoo pattern. Lines like that affecting our perception of length are a common optical illusion.

[KondorHawx]

Yes, I know he is ( hence all my floundering around earlier trying to find armour to hide his shame >.< ). The default conversation pose in cinematics is the worst offender for it. I didn't say my PC was fixed, just that he wasn't different/worse from the NPCs in the Dalish camp. ( IE they were both.....yeah ).
 

My mistake, I misunderstood the post.

[tmp7704]

Hey, just an fyi Xhaiden, the player character in this shot (on the left) is indeed experiencing the inward-bendy, "broken arm" issue. That's exactly what everyone's talking about and actually, this is one of the least severe cases I've seen lol. The NPC looks like it's fine, but I can't really tell at that angle.

Oddly enough I think with this armour it's not the case of 'broken arm' but the arm is just given extra thickness around the shoulder, like with this guy:



male elf irl, zomg.

(it doesn't show with the NPC because of different angle, not because he's lacking that detail)

[Xhaiden]

black mesh is Fenris' head in DA2. White mesh is male elf head in DAI. As you can see there's no difference in placement and size.

 

Interesting, but not as clear cut as it appears. The problem is Fenris's mesh is not a variable mesh with deformations such as face shapes applied. The CC clearly alters the size and shape of the skull and neck. Model scaling and in game appearence is ultimately handled by code and rigging not just by the straight mesh. Nevermind that Fenris had better rigging and posture than our slouching ape elves. Plus, placement is definately different as the elves in DA2 had long, slender almost ridiculous gazelle necks. Merril was almost a giraffe:

 

 

Merril's armour is actually available in DA:I so we can compare:

 

 

 

and Fenris's rigging and posture makes a big difference:

 

 

 

Fenris stands straighter and curves his shoulders back slightly in a more lith/agile posture. While the DA:I elf is just using the same animation and posture as every other male.

[Xhaiden]

Oddly enough I think with this armour it's not the case of 'broken arm' but the arm is just given extra thickness around the shoulder, like with this guy:

 

Round about, yeah. The Dalish scout armour adds bulk to the chest but the physique is too slender so there's no where for that bulk to go. The arms don't naturally rest further outward with the extra thickness of the armour under the arm/armpit. So the arms clip through the armour and look glued to the sides. Its like putting football armour on that guy. It would make his arms look scrawny.

 

The same problem is actually present in the human male model with the upper arms being too close to the chest. You can see it clipping into the chest in the default stance:

 

 

 

Its just not as noticable because the arms have more outward bulk than the elf.

 

( Also damn, Cole is ripped ).

[Tielis]

Okay, for starters I can tell you that there's no problem with the Dalish light armour in PC vs NPC.

 

Is the problem with the Scout armour? Can you go stand next to Golden Halla guy with the scout armour on? He's wearing scout armour.

 

Edit: Nope, no problem:

 

 

So what's happening in your game that isn't in mine?

 

Also, perhaps think twice before slinging out a trolling accusation next time.

 

That's not the broken animation.  This is:

 

Spoiler

[Xhaiden]

That's not the broken animation.  This is:

 

Yes, we mentioned that but we weren't discussing that in exactly. There are no cinematics in the Dalish camp for the stick up my ass default conversation pose to come into. This was a matter of posture outside of the engine's cinematic mode. So a screenie of an elf suffering cinematic collarbone implosion syndrome would not have worked as comparison.

 

The Frostbite engine has a seperate cinematic mode which is the cause of a lot of our woes. In it, all characters use the same skeleton and animation regardless of race or gender. With some slight alterations to camera height and angle to acocunt for taller and shorter races. It also framelocks to 30 fps. So all and all its kind of butt and is the source of a lot of the current woes.

[tisdfogg]

Design is my realm, not coding. I need to know something about everything but I defer to the programming gods on the nitty gritty. Once it goes past architecture and into scary things in parentheses I need to tag out. ;p

 

I actuallly find the human male too beefy to be honest. Which I think is one of the reasons elves seem so scrawny despite being the same proportions as DA2. Everyone else in Thedas beefed the hell up but the elves stayed the same. In fact come to think of It I'm willing to bet I know exactly what the problem is......yep!

 

The body proportions of the elf mesh are the same in DA2 and DA:I. But in DA:I the necks are shorter and the heads bigger. The elf body quite literally is too small for its head or visa versa. Elves were not playable in DA2 so they did not have to work with the character creator and what not. In DA:I their head size and features had to be normalized to the same assets and cinematic rigging as the other races. Which meant shorter necks and bigger heads:

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, the Human mesh proportions have been beefed up between the DA2 and DA:I human male mesh:

 

 

 

So there's your problem. Going from DA2 to DA:I, they kept the same elven body proportions while moving to the new head/neck size in DA:I. Whereas they increased the Human body proportions to match the new heads. In order to maintain proper proportion the Elven mesh should have likewise recieved an increase in bulk in the shoulders and arms.

 

That is why they look "wrong" even if you can't put your finger on the problem.

 

Agreed on human model. Then again, If I have a choice between a big, ripped dude and someone who has a body of teenage girl with severe case of anorexia, it's gotta be the gym enthusiast. I understand the desire to have a uniquely looking race in the game, I really do. But what is so unique in looking malnourished? Alas, we will never know but I doubt even the guys over at BioWare HQ, are satisfied how things turned out. The funny thing is that I am really playing more often as a human, for example the whole Mass Effect series was very cool from humie perspective, and I wouldn't pick any other race, even if available, other than to just mess around. It's just that DA universe humans are dull (especially in DA:I). Ironic really. 

[Lord Surinen]

Oddly enough I think with this armour it's not the case of 'broken arm' but the arm is just given extra thickness around the shoulder, like with this guy:

[censored]

male elf irl, zomg.

(it doesn't show with the NPC because of different angle, not because he's lacking that detail)

His hands look much better than elvhen. It is best shown in the area near the elbow. What m I looking at anyway. ugh

[Fredward]

Yah know, despite the pajama moobs and weird broken arms in some armors I think the male elf model is actually my favourite. Everything else is beefcake city and heroes are ALWAYS beefcakes. It's refreshing to play someone whose too skinny, especially when the alternatives are the usual fantasy hero fare.

[Blue_Shayde]

I'm with you, Fred. If it wasn't for the broken arms and the slightly larger head, I still love the elf model. Really not a huge fan of beefcake characters...specially when they are a mage.

 

 

As for that article, its interesting, but I think they are taking it a little to literally. There is proof otherwise against it...but who knows. Damn it all if the blame really does come down to the elves.

[Xhaiden]

Yah know, despite the pajama moobs and weird broken arms in some armors I think the male elf model is actually my favourite. Everything else is beefcake city and heroes are ALWAYS beefcakes. It's refreshing to play someone whose too skinny, especially when the alternatives are the usual fantasy hero fare.

 

Likewise, I end up playing elves or even female chars in a lot of RPGs because they're usually the ones with the normal physique. Instead of Roll Fizzlebeef up there.

[Blue_Shayde]

Likewise, I end up playing elves or even female chars in a lot of RPGs because they're usually the ones with the normal physique. Instead of Roll Fizzlebeef up there.

Amusingly enough, I never play females if I can. (and I'm a girl. ) I guess I get more invested in dressing up my man character and staring at him for hours then a female. xD

 

Only reason I'll be playing a female dwarf is because Harding is so frickin awesome that she inspired me. And only reason I'll be playing a female elf is for the Solas story. If I can even stomach another playthrough of this game after I beat it....

[Xhaiden]

Amusingly enough, I never play females if I can. (and I'm a girl. ) I guess I get more invested in dressing up my man character and staring at him for hours then a female. xD

 

Unamusingly enough, when I have to mangina in online games I am oft mistaken for a real female behind the character. Because my female characters are realistic looking and not dressed like wandering strippers. >.>

 

Then I get hit on by creepy guys.

[Xhaiden]

Luna, if you need more armour choices it turns out Warden armour works for elves and you can get unique guranteed drops of it from dragon slaying:

 

Specifically;

 

In Peace, Vigilance ( Heavy ). Murder the dragon in Storm Coast:

( If this can't beef up Elf shoulders nothing can. >.> )

 

 

 

 

In Death, Sacrifice ( Medium ), murder the Crestwood Dragon:

 

 

 

In War, Victory ( Light ), Murder the Emerald Graves dragon:

 

 

 

Additionally, try Sturdy Prowler ( Medium ):

 

[Xhaiden]

Starting up an Elf warrior to see if I can get my paws on some of this and see how it looks.

 

We might not be able to fix the arms, but by god we can dress sexy as **** to distract ourselves.

 

Edit: Ouch, okay maybe not. The intial heavy armours are really badly affected aren't they? I got arm glued hunched forward cretin posture in every single cutscene.

 

Man, only some medium armour / Dalish armour is relatively safe isn't it?