233 réponses à ce sujet

[X2-Elijah]

 All right. I'll start up by saying that I never really considered Mass Effect 1 an rpg in the first place. Sure, it did make you play a role, and there was a somewhat decent level-up mechanic, as well as item customization. Despite that, going by the pure gameplay experience, ME1 felt (to me) as a common third-person shooter with basic rpg mechanics tacked on to it for the sake of better publicity.

Now, after reading through the threads and reviews, I see that in ME2, most of the rpg mechanics have been taken out or reworked to be even less notable (like the levelling system, the equipment/customization side, the combat, which now has no pretensis on anything but your twich reflex counting).

And, for the lack of a better term, I am concerned. It seems to me that ME2 is not an RPG in any way imaginable anymore - it is just a third-person shooter with a good plot. 
And this is a problem for me, because I can't stand shooters as such. The things that kept me on to ME1 was the plot and the rpg elements that compensated for a lack of aiming/mouse-killing skills and total lack of fps expertise. Now, I feel like I won't like ME2 at all.
For all this talk of 'improved combat', 'streamlined experience' - it's not what I had wanted. I wanted ME2 to be more of an rpg that the first one with a fixed (and not removed) vehicle part and equipment drops.. But Bioware chose to go the other way - because that's where the money is these days.

Or am I completely wrong, and ME2 is still a good, down-to-Earth RPG, and not a shooter with a plot?

[PingoBlack]

Why a new topic? One just like this is a meter away ...

[Marlina]

RPG = Role Playing game



To you, it means stats and stuff, like in Diablo. For others, it means a branching storyline. ME2 has a branching storyline. It's an RPG in that regard, more than it is in the stat-whoring way of Diablo.

[Fredvdp]

To me role playing is about playing a role and there are few games that do it as well as Mass Effect. I don't care about level, stats, inventory, etc. as long as I get to direct the story through my character.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Both.



/thread

[Teknor]

Seems like you deliberately opened a new topic so all shooter haters and/or RPG lovers would gather under your banner.

[adam_grif]

OP acts as though TPS and RPG are mutually exclusive. They aren't. It's both.

[Havokk7]

X2-Elijah wrote...
...in ME2, most of the rpg mechanics have been taken out or reworked to be even less notable (like the levelling system, the equipment/customization side, the combat, which now has no pretensis on anything but your twich reflex counting).

Those are not roleplaying mechanics, they are rollplaying mechanics, also known as wargame mechanics.

Roleplaying is where you play a role, making choices appropriate to the role; where those choices actually mean something in the game.

B

[Popstick]

What exactly is the point in trying to label it with some pointless genre tag? It's a game. And a bloody good one.

Modifié par Popstick, 25 janvier 2010 - 11:05 .

[X2-Elijah]

Alright, first off, my concern is a valid one - I didn't inted to start any flame wars, or troll around. Second, pardon me for not being precisely up-to-date with the specific applications of the terms used here and how they differ from other forums.



What I mean by an RPG is essentially a game like Dragon Age:Origins. Not sure how can I explain this even more. To me, it is a game with set rules, lots of mathematics behind your actions, character development, focus on plot, drop/loot lists and experience. A shooter, in my opinion, is a game that relies on your twitch skills, shooting accuracy and does not have character statistics that influence the mechanics - it relies on you, not your character.



I'd say that these two types are mutually exclusive. At least, up to a fair degree.

[Vulee94]

Fredvdp wrote...

To me role playing is about playing a role and there are few games that do it as well as Mass Effect. I don't care about level, stats, inventory, etc. as long as I get to direct the story through my character.

[smudgedhorizon]

For me the fact that most of the reviews have mentioned how RPG elements have been simplified/removed, just confirms that it has become less of an RPG and more of an action game.

Will have to see how this affects my enjoyment of the game. On paper, I'm not happy with the changes, but I'm willing to stay open minded.

[Marlina]

X2-Elijah wrote...

Alright, first off, my concern is a valid one - I didn't inted to start any flame wars, or troll around. Second, pardon me for not being precisely up-to-date with the specific applications of the terms used here and how they differ from other forums.

What I mean by an RPG is essentially a game like Dragon Age:Origins. Not sure how can I explain this even more. To me, it is a game with set rules, lots of mathematics behind your actions, character development, focus on plot, drop/loot lists and experience. A shooter, in my opinion, is a game that relies on your twitch skills, shooting accuracy and does not have character statistics that influence the mechanics - it relies on you, not your character.

I'd say that these two types are mutually exclusive. At least, up to a fair degree.

Mass Effect is a hybrid, so your position that they are mutually exclusive is just... misguided, in my opinion. 

Dragon Age is as you described. Mass Effect, on the other hand, has:
Character development, focus on plot, experience, BUT it also has twitch skills and shooting accuracy. It relies on BOTH you AND your character. See? A hybrid. You should totally play Deus Ex if you want a good example. Or Vampire Bloodlines.

Bottom line is, I think you're expecting something else. If you want a standard D&D-style adventure, with lots of stats and stuff, you should play something else. Mass Effect is about the story, and now also the fun "twitch" combat (though I sincerely doubt it's gonna be twitch. Counter Strike and unreal tournament is twitch. Gears of War isn't.)

[Sharn01]

I personally believe that an RPG is a game where the character's abilities determine success or failure and not the player's.

I think ME is an intensly story driven shooter. There is nothing wrong with this and I will be in line at midnight tonight to pick up my preorder, but its not technicly an rpg.



That being said I am ok with the RPG title for the game, as video games in general have a difficult time emulating RPG's, and I do not feel Mass Effect is any further off from being close enough as many other games labeled as RPG. It is definately closer to an RPG then any JRPG game, since it allows character customization and choices that effect the storyline.

[RyuKazuha]

It's neither a shooter, nor a RPG, it's different, unique and a great game.

[SurfaceBeneath]

X2-Elijah wrote...

set rules: Check. Mass Effect 2 has a set of rules that determine combat
lots of mathematics behind your actions: Same as one really. You shoot someone, the modifiers of your weapon are added together and subtracted from enemy defenses
character development: Check, Mass Effect 2 does this better than the first.
focus on plot: Check again. Probably a better plot than 1. That's all up to personal preference, but certainly its presentation of that plot IS better.
drop/loot lists: ME2 does not have this. But ME1's implimentation was so god awful that it was a good omission. Instead, your inventory is based on your ship instead of your backpocket
experience: Yep. Earned after each mission complete instead of by kill which actually reward a less "kill em all" mentality of the first one

A shooter, in my opinion, is a game that relies on your twitch skills: ME1 required twitch skills and shooting accuracy: You still had to aim at the enemy to hit them in ME1, no matter how high/low your stats were. Pausing is still in both games.
does not have character statistics that influence the mechanics: Every shooter actually has those mechanics, but their usually hidden. ME1 and 2 have about the same.
it relies on you, not your character: Again, ME1 required you both aim at the opponent AS WELL AS succeed at an invisible roll. ME2 removes that last part.

I hope this addresses your concerns.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 25 janvier 2010 - 11:28 .

[X2-Elijah]

Yes, it does - thank you.

Apparently, ME2 is not the kind of RPG I am looking for, though, so I'll have to give it a pass..

[SurfaceBeneath]

X2-Elijah wrote...

Yes, it does - thank you.
Apparently, ME2 is not the kind of RPG I am looking for, though, so I'll have to give it a pass..

Not sure why you'd be keeping up on the development of ME2 if you didn't like ME1, but whatevs.

Good luck in your future journeys.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 25 janvier 2010 - 12:23 .

[vashts1985]

So.. Is this an RPG or Third-person shooter?

why do you care so much what its labeled?

[X2-Elijah]

I don't. By the question I asked what 'kind' of game experience it provides, not what label it has. I wanted to know if it will play like an old-fashion traditional rpg (somethign along the lines of Fallout 3, at least), or like a third-person shooter, like Gears of war.



The majority of people here seemed to understand the question. Why didn't you?

[SurfaceBeneath]

X2-Elijah wrote...
I wanted to know if it will play like an old-fashion traditional rpg (somethign along the lines of Fallout 3, at least), or like a third-person shooter, like Gears of war.

It plays more like Mass Effect 1.... 

[Wazzler]

If you didn't like the first one, probably pass on it. I love it though and think it's an improvement over the first in terms of gameplay. The aquiring of items in an inventory and stuff felt out of place for this type of game.



You still aquire upgrades, ability points and research etc. But no longer will you come across "vendor trash" if you get my meaning.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

vashts1985 wrote...

So.. Is this an RPG or Third-person shooter?

why do you care so much what its labeled?

I don't think he cares what it is labeled, he cares what it IS.

ME1 = rpg with shooter elements.
ME2 = shooter with rpg elements

Not everybody likes games that are primarily shooters.

[Sharn01]

If you considered Fall Out 3 an RPG then I would think ME2 is right up your ally.



While I liked FO3 it did not have much RPG to it. I am still disappointed that Charisma was the universal dump stat no matter how you played the game while in the previous games it could give you a whole new way to play almost the entire main story. Not that FO3 was not superior to its predecessor's as a game in general, it was superior as a game, but far inferior as an RPG.