733 réponses à ce sujet

[Shelled]

I'm about 23 hours in with dual-dagger rogue on nightmare.

 

It's just straight bad compared to everything else there is it seems. In origins you could make a rogue viable on the hardest difficulty by dumping points into cunning and making him a dodge-tank with high crit chance, but since you cannot allocate attribute points the way you want in inquisition so doing that strategy is no longer a viable.

 

1. I started getting 2-hit by enemies with 2handed weapons while I was behind them, apparently their swings allow them to hit enemies behind them or something. There are many melee attackers with aoe abilities as well like bears that have stomp just destroy rogue on nightmare, wolves have something similar. A pack of 3 wolves just disintegrated my melee rogue like it was nothing.

 

2. You have to be behind enemies to make melee rogue viable, but they almost want you to play this game like an action game because enemies don't stand in one spot like they do in origins when your tank is holding agro, they move around constantly, and the only way to play nightmare is with the tactical cam on, and with A.I completely off. So you constantly need to adjust sometimes to moving enemies to get behind them which equals a total loss of DPS every time you're not attacking but adjusting your position to the enemies to get behind them properly. Seems like warrior would be straight better at this point.

 

3. Warrior seems straight up better especially on nightmare. You can deal nice damage, act as an offtank which rogue cannot do, have AoE, and you have that new guard power which lets you basically gain free HP from abilities.

 

4. Stealth so far has been entirely useless for me other than using it to break agro but the rogue is dying so fast that it seems useless because if I can't get out of the way of an AoE ability in time it doesn't matter if I use stealth, its dead anyway.

5. They give you varric at the very beginning of the game who is already a rogue and ranged which is already better than dagger rogue.

6. There is a major problem with stealth in tactical mode, due to the way any character is set to auto-attack automatically in tactical mode if you use stealth you character still auto-attacks. It makes using stealth-based abilities a complete pain in the ass. If I use any kind of stealth-based ability it should automatically stop my character from auto-attacking but because of how poorly designed this game is it makes it a pain in the ass.

I'll continue playing to see if it gets any better or if I can respec my character to ranged or something, so far its been really awful though.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

There are repec items you can buy to change over to an Archer.

DA: I does seem like DA 2 in that the best party tends to be 1 tank + 3 ranged characters. 2 archers + 1 mage for more DPS or 2 mages + 1 archer for more Barrier and crowd control.

[Vortex13]

 

I'm about 23 hours in with dual-dagger rogue on nightmare.

 

It's just straight bad compared to everything else there is it seems. In origins you could make a rogue viable on the hardest difficulty by dumping points into cunning and making him a dodge-tank with high crit chance, but since you cannot allocate attribute points the way you want in inquisition so doing that strategy is no longer a viable.

 

1. I started getting 2-hit by enemies with 2handed weapons while I was behind them, apparently their swings allow them to hit enemies behind them or something. There are many melee attackers with aoe abilities as well like bears that have stomp just destroy rogue on nightmare, wolves have something similar. A pack of 3 wolves just disintegrated my melee rogue like it was nothing.

 

2. You have to be behind enemies to make melee rogue viable, but they almost want you to play this game like an action game because enemies don't stand in one spot like they do in origins when your tank is holding agro, they move around constantly, and the only way to play nightmare is with the tactical cam on, and with A.I completely off. So you constantly need to adjust sometimes to moving enemies to get behind them which equals a total loss of DPS every time you're not attacking but adjusting your position to the enemies to get behind them properly. Seems like warrior would be straight better at this point.

 

3. Warrior seems straight up better especially on nightmare. You can deal nice damage, act as an offtank which rogue cannot do, have AoE, and you have that new guard power which lets you basically gain free HP from abilities.

 

4. Stealth so far has been entirely useless for me other than using it to break agro but the rogue is dying so fast that it seems useless because if I can't get out of the way of an AoE ability in time it doesn't matter if I use stealth, its dead anyway.

5. They give you varric at the very beginning of the game who is already a rogue and ranged which is already better than dagger rogue.

I'll continue playing to see if it gets any better or if I can respec my character to ranged or something, so far its been really awful though.

 

 

 

I am just starting out on Nightmare as a dual wielding dwarf and I would have to say that I agree with this.

 

 

A fight against even same level opponents is a grueling experience, and I am constantly going down from hits done by 2 handed foes while trying to stab them in the back, while Cassandra is hitting them from the front. 

[Back Lot Basher]

There are repec items you can buy to change over to an Archer.

DA: I does seem like DA 2 in that the best party tends to be 1 tank + 3 ranged characters. 2 archers + 1 mage for more DPS or 2 mages + 1 archer for more Barrier and crowd control.

 

I agree with this.  Because I started early on the EA pass trial, I got a good start on three classes:  2H Warrior, Mage, and Archer.  I'm playing on Nightmare, and went about halfway through the Hinterland quests with each.  When my party was set up with only Cassandra as the tank and then three ranged, it was very doable.  But when I played as a melee class, things seemed to fall apart all the time.  Not enough damage and crowd control.  Right now I'm sticking with me as the Fire and Lightning mage, Solas with Spirit and Ice, Varrick, and Cass.  I've been having my best success with that combo.  

[SpaceV3gan]

I haven't got far into the game yet, but from what I've seen most of the fights happen on large open areas were it is simply better to attack from a distance rather than getting up close.
Positioning your character manually with the keyboard is a mess, a waste of time and more often than not I lost my character inside crowds.
I started a new gameplay as a mage and it is much easier.

[Capeo]

Yeah, just playing on normal I can see the pitfalls of the DW rogue. Which sucks because that was going to be my nightmare class. Waaay too many enemies have the ability to hit you when you're flanking them even early in the game. And quite a few see threw your stealth in seconds. Not to mention maintaining a flanking position seems way harder in this game then prior ones for some reason. Might respec to an archer tonight and see how I like that.

[Shelled]

There are repec items you can buy to change over to an Archer.

DA: I does seem like DA 2 in that the best party tends to be 1 tank + 3 ranged characters. 2 archers + 1 mage for more DPS or 2 mages + 1 archer for more Barrier and crowd control.

Yeah I would have to agree at this point. 1 tank (cassandra) 2 mages (yourself being one of them) and varric is probably the best combination.

I will change into an archer if I can respec, because right now the rogue is just dying way too fast from melee AoE abilities on nightmare. 

Do you know where I can buy this item to respec?

[Capeo]

From the blacksmith. Your first one cost 1 gold. After that they're 345.

[lastpawn]

Heartbreaking stuff. Melee rogues are my favorite, but what can you do.

 

Then again, I haven't tried a melee rogue myself at Nightmare. Maybe it's doable with investment in Evade and Easy to Miss? Evade especially seems nice, with a 2 second CD and a decoy(?) upgrade.

[StrikeQ]

Yea I started with a dual wield rogue, on Hard difficulty. Only level 8 or so but will probably restart as a mage or warrior. I do fine and can do some pretty big hits (500+ damage, ~1.5k w/ shatter combo) but I get absolutely wrecked by anything, and with all the 360 AoE mobs do...

 

 

Heartbreaking stuff. Melee rogues are my favorite, but what can you do.

 

Then again, I haven't tried a melee rogue myself at Nightmare. Maybe it's doable with investment in Evade and Easy to Miss? Evade especially seems nice, with a 2 second CD and a decoy(?) upgrade.

 

Not sure if I have the Easy to Miss skill yet but I do have Evade (The jump/dodge one) and it is pretty bad. Since going by the description it either moves you away or towards the action based on some sort of logic. Well whenever I try to use it to dodge out of the aoe moves it just rolls me into the mob basically keeping me in place. (If it even goes off in time in the first place...)

[Sevitan7]

The hitboxes are pretty bad for melee aoe attacks and Rogues, even flanking their enemies, will end up getting hit by AoE attacks. Worst, they don't have guard to mitigate the damage taken like warriors do. And plenty enemies come with melee aoe attacks that you are bound to eat even if you are not the target. Most of the enemies with those kind of attacks also tend to be immune to cc too (bosses/bears/enforcers) so being in melee with them is almost guaranteed damage unless you have barrier up at the right moment or micro manage your rouge every second of the encounter (even then, good luck avoiding the aoe with the sluggish movement).

The system is sort of stacked against melee rogues in this game so far. It requires far more micro management to pull off than its worth, considering the reward. Pick up a bow.

[Ou_Deis]

Wow, that "two-handed can hit enemies behind them" crap is annoying and ridiculous, wish there was a mod for it.

 

Can lots of CC prevent the AoE / two-handed effects? What if you only melee when enemies are incapacitated (or ambushed before they notice your party)?

 

Assassin's throwing daggers (ranged) and extra Knockout Powder are looking even better now....

 

If a mage casts barrier on your rogue, does the barrier move with you, or do you have to stay within its initial AoE? If it's cast on your tank, do you have to stay close to the tank to benefit from the barrier, is it difficult to maneuver while staying inside the barrier?

 

If you've got Flask of Lightning, is it easier to run away when an attack or AoE is coming? What about the Grappling Hook ability, can it be used effectively to dodge? Can Flask of Ice get you to 100% damage resistance?

 

When you use Spinning Blades, can enemies interrupt you in the middle of it and make it stop?

[Ou_Deis]

Most of the enemies with those kind of attacks also tend to be immune to cc too (bosses/bears/enforces) 

 

Are they immune to all CC or just some? Was planning on doing double daggers rogue with 2 mages specializing in CC, but if CC is useless against bosses, that will suck....

[Sevitan7]

Wow, that "two-handed can hit enemies behind them" crap is annoying and ridiculous, wish there was a mod for it.

 

Can lots of CC prevent the AoE / two-handed effects? What if you only melee when enemies are incapacitated (or ambushed before they notice your party)?

 

If a mage casts barrier on your rogue, does the barrier move with you, or do you have to stay within its initial AoE? If it's cast on your tank, do you have to stay close to the tank to benefit from the barrier, is it difficult to maneuver while staying inside the barrier?

 

If you've got Flask of Lightning, is it easier to run away when an attack or AoE is coming? What about the Grappling Hook ability, can it be used effectively to dodge? Can Flask of Ice get you to 100% damage resistance?

 

When you use Spinning Blades, can enemies interrupt you in the middle of it and make it stop?

Just wait until you die to bear when you are behind it even though it's clearly not hitting you. I swear, bears in this game even put the Skyrim bears to shame, they come with 360 aoe attacks of death.

And yea, most of the enemies that have magical 360 aoe attacks are immune to CC, bears included. They can be fear/panicked, but since that breaks on damage it's kind of a moot point.

In any case, if only the Inquisition could harness the power of the Bear, they would likely conquer the entire continent in a month.

 

Barriers stay on you once cast, but they tend to only last a few seconds. Against certain enemies, it's probably best to not cast it until you seem them telegraphic one of thier AoE attacks.

 

I have not used Flask of Lightning or Spinning blade so no comment.

[Shelled]

yeah I was just fighting a darkspawn alpha, its AoE warhammer attacks literally made my rogue completely useless. I had to kite with varric and solas the entire time (these things are harder than first boss lol I swear).

Meh, I am definitely going to respec into archer now. What's the point in using rogue if they just die in seconds to melee AoE? There seems to be some basic fundamental balance issues with that. I'm all about nightmare game modes but this game seems literally designed entirely to hate melee rogue LOL.

[yankblan]

The hitboxes are pretty bad for melee aoe attacks and Rogues, even flanking their enemies, will end up getting hit by AoE attacks. Worst, they don't have guard to mitigate the damage taken like warriors do. And plenty enemies come with melee aoe attacks that you are bound to eat even if you are not the target. Most of the enemies with those kind of attacks also tend to be immune to cc too (bosses/bears/enforcers) so being in melee with them is almost guaranteed damage unless you have barrier up at the right moment or micro manage your rouge every second of the encounter (even then, good luck avoiding the aoe with the sluggish movement).

The system is sort of stacked against melee rogues in this game so far. It requires far more micro management to pull off than its worth, considering the reward. Pick up a bow.

 

Playing as archer, so don't know, but one suggestion(?): Put your mage or one of your 2 mages with Mana treshold at 20%; put Barrier spell at deactivated (meaning you have to use it manually), and take control of your mage to cast barrier on your rogue/warrior (they should be clumped) when you need it; use evade abilities when the barrier is off (or put your mage on protect your character).

 

Maybe worth a shot; don't know if it still is too much micromanagement for your taste.

[Sevitan7]

That's exactly what I have been doing, but the truth is, the damage they do is not worth the micromanagement. I'd rather just have another warrior/mage or rouge archer instead. Also, Warriors also have guard to mitigate this damage, and Shield user can block the AoE attacks too. A barrier will only prevent one of those attacks and multiple others will likely hit your rogue while it's on cool down.

It's really just not worth the effort.

I actually bought this game for the micromanagement, because combat is my favorite part of Dragon Age Origins and 2. The terrible tactical interface and changes to the mechanics are definitely a disappointment though.

[Shelled]

That's exactly what I have been doing, but the truth is, the damage they do is not worth the micromanagement. I'd rather just have another warrior/mage or rouge archer instead. Also, Warriors also have guard to mitigate this damage, and Shield user can block the AoE attacks too. A barrier will only prevent one of those attacks and multiple others will likely hit your rogue while it's on cool down.

It's really just not worth the effort.

I actually bought this game for the micromanagement, because combat is my favorite part of Dragon Age Origins and 2. The terrible tactical interface and changes to the mechanics are definitely a disappointment though.

This is the problem. Micromanaging with this current tac cam is not an easy thing to do and in the end doing all the micromanaging for a melee rogue probably isn't worth it. They just don't have the health. Believe me, I was using barrier and revive kiting against this dark spawn alpha but it was pointless, my rogue just disintegrated against it even when cassandra had agro.

[DWard]

i started on nightmare to, then i realized i had no idea hat i was doing.

 

Then i tried Hard, and it occurred to me i still don't know the game well enough to play that mode.

 

The game has only been out for three days in the US, no one, none of us players that just purchased it are experts at it yet.

 

Give yourself a few months play time, start on normal understand the game more thoroughly before attempting nightmare.

 

just my 2 cents

[Sevitan7]

Yea, sadly this game is suffering from the MMO issue of "screw you melee dps." With no way for them to avoid damage and with 360 aoe's being so common these guys really don't have much of a niche. In the past games they could avoid some of it simply through the defense stat (and no 360 hitboxes on regular enemies), but since that doesn't exist and all hits are automatic (a bit too much inspiration drawn from Dark Souls and Skyrim there guys) rogues are just kind of meh.

 

This wouldn't be so bad if you could at least still CC those kind of enemies. Making things like bears with 360 aoe attacks immune to CC is a bit overkill for poor rogues.

[Shelled]

Evasion is useless, 5% chance to activate? You may as well sign a death certificate. Evade is equally as useless. They do these aoe attacks so frequently that dodging it is pointless, it would mitigate so much damage using evade that you may as well go archer instead. Waste stamina on evade instead of attacking with melee, making your dps drop drastically.

I can see evade being very useful for a archer but on a melee rogue its pointless.

Hidden step or "decoy" is useless for a melee rogue when we have stealth, because cassandra HAS agro, the problem is the AoE which massacres rogue, so the decoy would be useless for melee rogue.

[Sevitan7]

To be frank, I think in their desire to make an action rpg, someone simply didn't think through how action rpg mechanics mesh with the old system. It doesn't exactly.

 

The game simply works better with a sword and board tank + 3 ranged characters more than anything else sadly.

[Sriep]

(TANK(CASS) + DAGGER(ME) + MAGE  + ARCHER)

What I usally do is first thing stealth, then move across the battlefield to enemy archers and start doing flank and two prong attacks on them. Only playing on hard though, so maybe does not work so well on nightmare.

[finc.loki]

I don't know what Bioware was thinking.

 

 

I mean if you play a Dual wielder or almost any class, and you face same level enemies you always feel weak. How does it make sense in this case to have a supposedly hardest hitting DPS class do so little damage against a COMMON enemy and you having to slash and slash and ability, then slash and eventually they die. Yet the same enemy can hit you 2-4 times and you are dead or almost dead.

 

WHAT THE F!!!!

 

How does that make any sense. They made it all so very boring. Then the potion based system that is restricted as well. Sigh....

 

Give me DA2 combat where I felt like I WAS THE HERO, where I was better than random scrub enemies and could wipe out a whole group of them. The only challenge should be elites, bosses etc. I much preferred the DA2 combat. Only they should also have had the Origins tac system.

 

They have the same problem that you get in MMO's. Like SWTOR.

Here I am playing a SITH LORD and I am suppose to be a bad$ss and yet I have to play whackamole with low level enemies for ever and ever.

It is so BORING.....

 

Bioware has completely lost the touch of what makes a game fun. Why not just listen to the fan of what was great about previous games and do that. Why this new heal system based on pure annoyance. There is NO strategy behind it.

Their whole schtick about you prepare before you fight or plan ahead. HOW ???? You will 100% guaranteed take damage and you WILL 100% guaranteed run out of your potions. So the whole combat becomes not about the FUN in combat, but about "do I have to run back to camp again"....

 

I have zero faith ME4 will be any better, it will likely be half as long and twice as much multiplayer and less RPG and just on rails dialogue.

[yankblan]

I don't know what Bioware was thinking.
 
 
I mean if you play a Dual wielder or almost any class, and you face same level enemies you always feel weak. How does it make sense in this case to have a supposedly hardest hitting DPS class do so little damage against a COMMON enemy and you having to slash and slash and ability, then slash and eventually they die. Yet the same enemy can hit you 2-4 times and you are dead or almost dead.
 
WHAT THE F!!!!
 
How does that make any sense. They made it all so very boring. Then the potion based system that is restricted as well. Sigh....
 
Give me DA2 combat where I felt like I WAS THE HERO, where I was better than random scrub enemies and could wipe out a whole group of them. The only challenge should be elites, bosses etc. I much preferred the DA2 combat. Only they should also have had the Origins tac system.
 
They have the same problem that you get in MMO's. Like SWTOR.
Here I am playing a SITH LORD and I am suppose to be a bad$ss and yet I have to play whackamole with low level enemies for ever and ever.
It is so BORING.....
 
Bioware has completely lost the touch of what makes a game fun. Why not just listen to the fan of what was great about previous games and do that. Why this new heal system based on pure annoyance. There is NO strategy behind it.

Their whole schtick about you prepare before you fight or plan ahead. HOW ???? You will 100% guaranteed take damage and you WILL 100% guaranteed run out of your potions. So the whole combat becomes not about the FUN in combat, but about "do I have to run back to camp again"....
 
I have zero faith ME4 will be any better, it will likely be half as long and twice as much multiplayer and less RPG and just on rails dialogue.

See, I think the opposite. Slashing through a see of weaklings doesn't give me satisfaction. I prefer less, but more rewarding battles.