733 réponses à ce sujet

[cyph]

I need to get guard on hit.  My biggest issue is getting pin cushioned by archers when I'm on a roll.

 

Evade will help you escape arrows. If you're surrounded, go stealth.

[skokie29]

I guess i should leave the hinterlands im qlready on my third playthrough and realized mage and warriors (my first two playthroughs) were easy mode ...just trying tk get usedto the difficult difference between a rogue and those classes ...although at level. 8 my strongest dagger schematics only have 188 dps

 

Using the same schematics, you can get them to 216, you just need different material. Not sure which one, though. My guess is outside Hinterlands =D

[cyph]

Here's an example of flank attack (what I call backstab). One of the more useful moves for a rogue because it basically "teleport" you to the other side or automatic back side. If you're misfiring it, that means you're mashing the button before you position your rogue with movement toward the enemy. It appears that rogues gets less damage if you're in motion rather than standing still. 

 

The first boss on nightmare in real time. The trick is you don't stand in front of it as it's insta-kill. Stealth is super useful if you're being chased.  Also apparently, enemies can see through stealth if you're in stealth before they spawn which is a bug that should be corrected. I almost died from it. 

[lastpawn]

If you're misfiring it, that means you're mashing the button before you position your rogue with movement toward the enemy.

 

That, or you're at a different elevation from the enemy and you teleport over them. Or, though much less often, the ability just glitches and you ghost through the enemy doing nothing.

 

If you're not getting the elevation-teleport glitch, consider yourself fortunate. I can replicate it almost 100% of the time simply by being at a higher elevation and using Flank Attack on an enemy (the elevation difference might be very minor for this to occur). And no, it doesn't matter if I'm standing still or moving.

[snigiro]

I think you are underestimated the ability of melee rogues. They can dodge, parry, steath, and have high damage potential, among other things.

 

I just got done defeating I think the 2nd Dragon on nightmare with my melee Rogue and am Lv14 without having unlocked any of the 3 specialty skill trees. This shows a video of how a rogue only using Parry, Stealth, Flank Attack, and Twin Fangs can solo a Dragon, so they are in no way awful and are in fact very fun. Don't let this thread discourage anyone from playing melee rogue.

I am about to go learn Assassin Tree though~ I'm sure things would of been a lot smoother if I had say Assassin tree or Tempest 

[In Exile]

With a proper build Tank and the an high CC class (Riftmage, Necromage with Frost tree, any Rogue Specialisazion, a second tank ) on the player, you CAN win every single fight on your level even with brain dead AI.

Sorry, but invest in the tools at your disposal. The game is easy even on nightmare.

I didn't say (a) that the rogue wouldn't let you beat it on nightmare or ( that there aren't ways to basically get a rogue up to snuff. Just that I think it requires a lot more work than other classes, and in that regard there's a pretty big opportunity cost to it unless you really like the particular DA:I rogue playstyle. 

[ama8oi]

Altight so i just did heart shall burn as a dual dagger rogue if there is one thing dds suck at is against enemies that dont stop spawning lol

[ama8oi]

I think for me i dont like taking long to kill my target ...mages kill things multiple enemies a lot faster than a dd rogue but then again we are tqlking bout an aoe monster versus a single killing machine

[ama8oi]

I think my problem is that i try to play my dd rogue as an action oriented character similar to dynasty warriors ...i keep forgetting im squish without guard so i end up dying ...i ended up going to down to easy on heart shall burn cause i was so frustrated with myself not wanting to use tac cam against neverending enemi6es ...i just dont like tweaking what my companions should do

[Blackstork]

ITs good to use DW rogue on nightmare FF with spirit speced mage , as you get fast revives and could do alot of things with 1 hp actually., and aim for alot of party combos. Once you get specs things become much more easier. Also you in addition to fighting your dw rogues at 0 hp + barrier or stealth or flank or sleep , you should equip bees. Bees rock vs bosses. One of examples is Fiona, which rendered pretty easy and "useless" boss just with 2 well thrown bees flasks.

 

My next play will be manual controll rogue with smaller party than 4 (2-3 characters only), previous was tact nightmare ff on party control one.

[Zenthar Aseth]

Altight so i just did heart shall burn as a dual dagger rogue if there is one thing dds suck at is against enemies that dont stop spawning lol

No, they do not suck at that. You shouldn't instantly make sweeping statements just because you're either not playing well or the build you're using isn't very good. Rogues are great against enemies that don't stop spawning.

[10K]

Archer Master Race!!

[Matth85]

Altight so i just did heart shall burn as a dual dagger rogue if there is one thing dds suck at is against enemies that dont stop spawning lol

Rogues are one of the best classes to take out never-ending-spawn of enemies. You stealth on CD and take out archers/mages without any stress. They won't ever get a arrow off. Compare that to a warrior, who can get 3-shot by archers, or a mage who can get almost instantly killed by archers. 

 

It's simple. If you get hit as a rogue, you play wrong. There are not a single situation in the game that require you to get hit, and even if that happens: You can evade, stealth or parry. 

 

I think my problem is that i try to play my dd rogue as an action oriented character similar to dynasty warriors ...i keep forgetting im squish without guard so i end up dying ...i ended up going to down to easy on heart shall burn cause i was so frustrated with myself not wanting to use tac cam against neverending enemi6es ...i just dont like tweaking what my companions should do

 You are, in other words, playing like a warrior? .... 

[Lucrece]

Flank attacks is used to get close to the enemy. If you're doing it right, it shouldn't fail. Evade is to get away quickly against enemies with AOE attacks. You mentioned that your movement is too slow yet you're able to dodge AOE attacks just by re-positioning? 

 

 

Not repositioning. Positioning WELL. I use stealth+hook and chain to go eliminate the archers/mages and then for larger 360 opponents like giants and dragons I position at minimum range for flank and when an attack is coming my way I use frost or lightning flask. You can also use hook and chain into a different enemy to avoid attacks from one enemy.

 

If I'm doing flank attack right that means I'm fighting on a flat surface with no elevation differences. You might call that working but I don't if I can't reliably get it to work and grant me the stealth at the end of the strike half the time against distant enemies at different elevation levels while hook and chain works no matter what and costs me no stamina.

[TheImmortalBeaver]

I'm actually curious whether or not there's a consensus on the usefulness of the dual dagger tree itself. I just started a dagger rogue playthrough on Nightmare, and from what I've seen, the dagger specific skills just don't seem very useful, with less utility than the other rogue trees like Subterfuge and without enough damage-dealing potential to make up for it. But, I'm somewhat new to playing a rogue so I'm curious as to what you guys think.

[Corto81]

I'm actually destroying stuff on my DD rogue.

On Normal it was a stroll, on Hard you gotta be a bit more careful, on NM you got be a LOT more careful, but it's still by far the biggest damage and it's not THAT much of an issue timing your charge-to-backstab ability (can't remember the name now) and Parry.

 

There are still serious issues though.

If you use Cole, or if you leave your character on his own for literally 3 seconds, he's dead.

 

Every other class has something that gives you a bit more time to assume control over another companion, DD rogue.. Doesn't.

Seriously. You leave him alone for 3 seconds, he WILL die.

 

...

 

As for tactics etc.... Ded game, yo.

Once you the Hidden Blades proc on your high-damage weapons, on Normal and Hard you literally HOLD ATTACK BUTTON TO WIN.

[PsychicHammer]

You get a similar effect in DA 2 on nightmare. Any boss with a powerful AoE would obliterate a DW rogue if you did not evade the attack. Its still possible to beat nightmare with a DW rogue but its a heck of a lot easier with 1 tank and 3 ranged characters.

In DA2 you could roll DW without a tank and zero points in con. A single point in Stealth was all you needed to steamroll everything with murder dps. Is it possible to do it in DAI? As in, relying on damage 100% ("if they're dead, they can't hurt you" approach).

[Matth85]

In DA2 you could roll DW without a tank and zero points in con. A single point in Stealth was all you needed to steamroll everything with murder dps. Is it possible to do it in DAI? As in, relying on damage 100% ("if they're dead, they can't hurt you" approach).

Yes and no. You can oblitirate certain targets in a single combo (Twin fangs - death blow), especially if the target is frozen first. But generally you need to work a little for your damage. 

 

------------

Unrelated to the poster above!

 

I say it again, though, for anybody wondering why their roguisitor keeps dying: If you get hit, you play wrong. Almost all enmies that do AoE cleave/frontal cleave attacks for a tell for it. A mauler might hit you with his swings, but is vulnerable for a second afterwards. He might smack all around him, meaning you run away. A dragon will lift his foot before smacking you, or give you a tell before he swipes his tail. 

 

Some tactic is required. I almost want to recommend Monster Hunter(The game) to anybody not understand the points of tactic and "Window of opportunity". A dead dps is no dps. Jump in, do your combo, get out, repeat. No damage taken, boss dead. No need for guard on hit or any of that, just pure strategic damage. 

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Does any bow skill work with dagger and vice versa?

[PsychicHammer]

Does any bow skill work with dagger and vice versa?

I'm guessing that some passives might work regardless of weapon type.

[Zenthar Aseth]

Yes and no. You can oblitirate certain targets in a single combo (Twin fangs - death blow), especially if the target is frozen first. But generally you need to work a little for your damage. 

 

Twin Fangs - Shadow Strike works as well.

[DetcelferVisionary]

Only problems I'm having is the hit box issue.  DW rogues are not strong against 2h, but so what?  Can't be strong against everything and honestly on nightmare no class is perfect against all situations so I fail to see the point here.  Respecing multiple times is a certainty on nightmare to counter zones and dragons...   as if it's a bad thing.  

THAT IS WHY ITS CALLED...   NIGHTMARE.

 

My DW rogue destroys targets with ease.  It's easy as long as you understand your combos.  Just remember,  you play 2nd fiddle to mage setups.  Money is not in short supply,  respec frequently.

[mutantspicy]

Evade will help you escape arrows. If you're surrounded, go stealth.

Yeah no doubt!  My problem is perhaps waiting too long to jump out.  But also, I've been using death blow too early, which means I'm running around in circles waiting for my cool down.   In fact I just respec'd and traded mercy killing for death blow, because I think that's been killing my strategy.  

 

This has been a great thread. Even tho it started negative.  I think the biggest reason for all the complaints is that Bioware is attempting something unique here, the concept of action strategy has many of us confused.  This is not DnD where you have the luxury of sitting around with a joint plotting your next 4 moves. Instead its plan ahead, but prepared to react quickly when it doesn't work.  I can't help but lol at all the complaints about flank attack tho.  Like its even feasible to flank up hill, or when your enemy backed into a corner. Sure old school games you exploit coding flaws which would allow you to get away with such shenanigans, but time moves on and games are changing to more realistic physics.  Not saying the game is perfect by any means, but I applaud the concept.  It still needs work.  Like attacking prone characters should be minus to defense  instead swinging wildly in the air for instance.  And where's  "coup de grace"  on a sleeper, should be a talent.

[mutantspicy]

What's the feeling on AOE daggers?  I've been trying one in my main hand, and while the animations seem like it makes more convenient to get the hit boxes when you do get the opportunity to unleash a barrage of normal attacks, my feeling is that I'm sacrificing my ability to stealth one hit damagewise.

[ent1]

The fact that a few people have made it work does not mean it's not terrible. In fact it's evidence that it is. Regardless of player skill, the fact is that you are dancing around hitboxes, having to hold down attack and position yourself just right, while an archer can just stand back and do about the same damage. Add to that the fact that companions always follow you into battle, so you are constantly having to reposition (with the gutted interface for doing so) while carefully managing your own positioning. It is much harder than other options, and if you can manage it, hats off to you, but one class is not supposed to be harder than others. Classes are supposed to be different without a steep difficulty gradient between them, and melee rogue fails this test badly.

 

Granted, DA2 had the same problem, but you could make a non weapon-specific build and switch between bow and daggers as needed, which you cannot do here.