733 réponses à ce sujet

[lastpawn]

I mean if you play a Dual wielder or almost any class, and you face same level enemies you always feel weak. How does it make sense in this case to have a supposedly hardest hitting DPS class do so little damage against a COMMON enemy and you having to slash and slash and ability, then slash and eventually they die. Yet the same enemy can hit you 2-4 times and you are dead or almost dead.

 

I don't have this exact complaint but...

 

It does rub me the wrong way that the only reason most enemies don't beat me is that they're dumb as a bag of bricks. Seriously if they just stopped going after my tank and attacked my mage or rogue, I'd lose. They're stronger, just stupid. I realize this is an MMO thing, but that doesn't make it a great mechanic.

 

What I'm saying is that even basic enemies seem to be stronger than our characters. Just, you know, really stupid.

[Marbazoid]

Playing on hard, I've found getting used to timing parry (even when you're behind an opponent) is pretty important, as well as mobility skills like hook and tackle and evade to escape from melee scrums. Frost flask from the tempest tree is good for soaking AoE damage, but it doesn't last very long.

 

The AI is bad at timing parry, so you will need to micromanage your dagger rogue if you play as one, otherwise I would stick to Varric or Sera as archer spec for the party rogue.

[lastpawn]

Playing on hard, I've found getting used to timing parry (even when you're behind an opponent) is pretty important, as well as mobility skills like hook and tackle and evade to escape from melee scrums. Frost flask from the tempest tree is good for soaking AoE damage, but it doesn't last very long.

 

The AI is bad at timing parry, so you will need to micromanage your dagger rogue if you play as one, otherwise I would stick to Varric or Sera as archer spec for the party rogue.

 

Wait a second, I thought parry didn't work for AOE "cleave" type attacks?

[Tyrith]

I'm playing through nightmare currently on my level 14 tempest and although i would agree melee dps in general in this game can be frustrating as hell i think its more to do with the AI being randomly stupid at times more than enemies being too unforgiving.

 

For example the 2hand berserker type enemies you can stun lock before they get guard up and kill them before they can even hit you, if they get guard up its going to suck because they become immune to CC effects but you can still deal with it unless your tanks AI decides they want a hug from you causing the enemy to start hitting you in the face.

 

I think its manageable for me because Tempest is so powerful compared to the other specializations for dual wield.atleast, i doubt any of the other classes or specializations can put out the single target damage that a tempest dual wield rogue can, but i haven't really played anything other than dual wield and archer and my dual wield does significantly more than my archer did.

 

I agree that the game would be easier for a full ranged setup but its alot less fun in my opinion.

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

It seems like Bioware took a page or two from Dark Souls when it comes to melee combat. Removal of defense stat (meaning whether an attack is a hit or miss is purely based on visual feedback), correctly timing blocks and parries (parries more so since it actively drains stamina), even limited healing. But the system kinda crumbles for rogues when they don't incorporate some reliable dodge mechanic as well, which true twitch-based action RPGs like Dark Souls will have. 

[Marbazoid]

Wait a second, I thought parry didn't work for AOE "cleave" type attacks?

 

It looks like all regular melee attacks can cleave, that's why dagger rogues are still taking damage even when they are perfectly flanking a target (you can literally parry an attack while you are facing an opponents back). Parry works for most physical attacks as long as you are facing the direction of the damage. I'm pretty sure it wont work on anything telegraphed though.

[ironhorse384]

It doesn't help that the loot drops are brutal as well. I've gotten like three purples so far and when I got them they were already obsolete. The crafting system is just plain garbage. Why they thought it was a good idea to separate you from your party, then have to strip gear off them , head back to Haven, use the four crafting tables at the blacksmith, head back to wherever I am in the story, and finally re-equip my characters. At least if I had some better gear it might not be too bad running with my DW rogue, Cass, and two mages but this is tough.

[Butters158]

It doesn't help that the loot drops are brutal as well. I've gotten like three purples so far and when I got them they were already obsolete. The crafting system is just plain garbage. Why they thought it was a good idea to separate you from your party, then have to strip gear off them , head back to Haven, use the four crafting tables at the blacksmith, head back to wherever I am in the story, and finally re-equip my characters. At least if I had some better gear it might not be too bad running with my DW rogue, Cass, and two mages but this is tough.

 

Just tab through your characters in the upper right corner, no need to strip their gear.

 

On a somewhat related noted, anyone know a guarenteed place to get good dagger schematics? I'm on tier 2 stuff and I have Dagger of Sacrifice (which I've been using since like level 6 and I'm 12 now) but I want to find a better schematic before I start dumping my currently pretty limited mats into it.

[Enesia]

I have played mages and I disagree. Rogues are more powerful and way better.

 

I think out of all the classes, mages are the worse. Underpowered with low defense

[AlphaMagnum]

Can higher-level Rogues chime in regarding Tempest effectiveness?

 

Just looking at it, it seems like almost all the complaints about survivability and DPS can be solved by dedicated investment into this tree:

 

Survivability:

Flask of Frost = 5-8 seconds of 85% damage reduction = you take almost no damage

Flask of Lightning = 7-10 seconds of 99% time dilation = enemies do nothing

 

DPS:

Flask of Fire = 5-8 seconds of 0 cost/0 cooldown Twin Fangs or Deathblow

Thousand Cuts = The End

[Lebanese Dude]

Bump it down to hard. Nightmare mode demands you adapt to it. If micromanaging is too much then don't play it on Nightmare.

Nobody's forcing you.

I suggest picking up Tempest if you really want to play a melee rogue on Nightmare. Still has micromanagement but at least it's not as reactionary.

[BrettKing]

I've got a level 7 DW rogue and had absolutely no problem at all with him until I got to the envy demon. Tried to beat him at least ten times to no avail, and that was on normal. I've played enough of origins, though I'm definitely no DA combat expert, but still, that should not be happening. In my fury I finally respeced to archer and beat him on the first try without even breaking a sweat. There should not be such a night and day difference between any onne spec/role/class and another. Now I'm almost 20 hours into the game and am either stuck with a spec I never intended to play, or I have to reroll. That is, unless Bioware rolls out a patch in the next 24 hours. Very frustrating. 

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

You get a similar effect in DA 2 on nightmare. Any boss with a powerful AoE would obliterate a DW rogue if you did not evade the attack. Its still possible to beat nightmare with a DW rogue but its a heck of a lot easier with 1 tank and 3 ranged characters.

[mav805]

Evasion should be bumped too, it's only a 5% chance to proc, and it can't be upgraded, so it's utterly worthless. When enemies kill you in 1 or 2 hits it should be like a 25% chance.

[Phenix-De-Troy]

I think you are all trying to play DW rogue as warriors.

DW rogue main objective is to kill archers and mages, not going into the melee.
If your rogue is in contact with an enemy tank or damage dealer, then your are playing wrong.

[diagorias]

I think you are all trying to play DW rogue as warriors.

DW rogue main objective is to kill archers and mages, not going into the melee.
If your rogue is in contact with an enemy tank or damage dealer, then your are playing wrong.

They are awesome against mages and other ranged classes, the problem however is that once they are dead and you try to kill any kind of two-handed warrior, beast or boss, you are basically gonna die or do hardly any damage. All the immunities from said two-handed warriors and bosses makes they handicap even worse.

[viperidae]

i think you all are just looking at it wrong. If you're going to play on nightmare and NOT constantly micro and defend your main damage dealer something would be wrong with the game IMO. Knight-Enchanter to me feels exactly the same, now i might be playing on hard but to even survive a dragon fight i need to be using my fade step (gapcloser/escape) and fade cloak (momentary invul) perfectly or i'm GOING to die. a DW rogue is to do damage when it's safe to do so, if any of you have ever played a MOBA you will understand the tactics perfectly: you can't get stunned, you can't get hit, but you CAN get in, do a whole boatload of damage and then get out, which i think is what they were going for with the rogue gameplay.

[Coyote X Starrk]

So I am just playing on normal and I really don't like the micro managing. I JUST made a DW Rogue.

 

Should I switch to Archery? Or will I be okay on normal? 

 

Is Archery good later on? 

[Urazz]

It seems like warriors are the only viable melee in DA:I.  For example, I've gone with a S&S Warrior, a 2 Hander Warrior, a range rogue, and a mage.

 

The 2 Hander Warrior will have the single target taunt and bull charge for guard generation and minor tanking,  He also has quite a few stuns and such to allow for minimizing hits taken as well.

 

 

So I am just playing on normal and I really don't like the micro managing. I JUST made a DW Rogue.

 

Should I switch to Archery? Or will I be okay on normal? 

 

Is Archery good later on? 

From what I've seen Archery is best overall since melee rogues lack minor self heals or good passive dodge abilities but on normal you can get away with almost anything in my opinion. Hell, I've done some basic questing with 2 warriors and 2 rogues and it worked fine.

[dimvision]

Game still too early I'd say... Maybe there's some broken piece of gear+build that makes dual wielding rogues broken that people doesn't know about.

[yankblan]

I think you are all trying to play DW rogue as warriors.

DW rogue main objective is to kill archers and mages, not going into the melee.
If your rogue is in contact with an enemy tank or damage dealer, then your are playing wrong.

 

I like this; when you face a group of enemies, the stalker is always targeting my ranged party members.

 

On a side note, I'm at level 8 or 9 with an archer in the Redcliff castle when you go to recruit the mages (I won't say more!), but when I finish it, I'll make a separate save, respec to DW and try it for a while in the Hinterlands or on the coast, just to see what people are talking about.

 

I played through DA2 as a DW rogue, but I like to change roles when I try a new RPG (played Origins as a S&S tank, Diablo as a mage).  I tried archer in Origins and it was awful.  People have nostalgia for Origins, and while there is a lot of things to like, the ability tree and the abilities themselves really sncked bad; the mage cones spells, the subterfuge class, the lock picking, ranger, animals class for Morrigan; ugh!!!

 

What is funny too is that 2 took a lot of flack, and since Inquisition came out, you'd thought it was the second best game of all time behind Origins.

 

I'll try a DW, and yes, concentrate on the range enemies, and then support my tank.  I'm thinking there will probably a patch down the line to nerf the AoE weapons, or increase the chance of dodging those when flanking or from behind.

[Phenix-De-Troy]

They are awesome against mages and other ranged classes, the problem however is that once they are dead and you try to kill any kind of two-handed warrior, beast or boss, you are basically gonna die or do hardly any damage. All the immunities from said two-handed warriors and bosses makes they handicap even worse.

Well in that case, just don't attack the big guy with your rogue.
Just stand position far from him and let your tank + range finish him.
I'm also pretty sure DW rogue has some range attacks (dagger throw or something)

[Mick Creedy]

Im level 15 and playing a DW rogue on hard. The best way I've managed to play is like Phenix said, take out ranged then once thats done wait on CD's, stealth and blow all abilities on heavier enemies and then burn out and wait.
Its slow, but using this method ive been able to tackle two dragons thus far without much issue ( a few deaths) but the rez feature makes that moot point (love that new feature). I see it as, the grp can maintain the sustainable dmg, I'll just weave in and out for the burst. I did, at first try and maintain dps on heavier targets, died all the time, switched to a Subtlety rogue type and it's gotten to be more manageable.

[pyre]

I think you are all trying to play DW rogue as warriors.

DW rogue main objective is to kill archers and mages, not going into the melee.
If your rogue is in contact with an enemy tank or damage dealer, then your are playing wrong.

 

But wouldn't it be better to play a damage dealing class/spec that doesn't have a "you're doing it wrong" restriction?

 

Are mages or DPS warriors restricted in such a way where they shouldn't be attacking a large # of enemy types?

[Shelled]

But wouldn't it be better to play a damage dealing class/spec that doesn't have a "you're doing it wrong" restriction?

 

Are mages or DPS warriors restricted in such a way where they shouldn't be attacking a large # of enemy types?

Pretty much this, and if there are no ranged characters left to DPS on, my rogue is supposed to sit there and not do anything even though cassandra has agro against melee? 

That presumption is insanely dumb, especially when you can't even equip a bow in combat.