733 réponses à ce sujet

[Navek]

I don't know what Bioware was thinking.

 

 

 First, of course wouldn't know what BW is doing their a company that purpose is to make money by developing high-quality console, PC, and online role-playing games focused on rich stories, unforgettable characters, and vast worlds to discover. While they originally were a two-three man team now a business who has to answer to company director, vice-president, president, GM, CEO. Who may or may not be able to give them the things they believe would make their game a smash-hit because they answers to shareholders financial back them. Also so note that Bioware is a divison of EA. So even if they Bioware all come together and agree on something (ex. more time, developers need, or research) EA still has a say on the subject example DA:I multiplayer (wish it wasnt even in the game).

 

Bottomline you should not go judging just cause it upsets or angers you. While each gamers experience is different cast you decision with a bit of objectivity and believe Bioware all gaming companies are doing everything capable to give you the game you deserve and getting your monies worth. I have  only 120hr+ in game havent regret any of it.

 

 

I mean if you play a Dual wielder or almost any class, and you face same level enemies you always feel weak. How does it make sense in this case to have a supposedly hardest hitting DPS class do so little damage against a COMMON enemy and you having to slash and slash and ability, then slash and eventually they die. Yet the same enemy can hit you 2-4 times and you are dead or almost dead.

 

Second, just may be your build in how you make your rogue. *To many damaging moves no escapes or vice-versa. *Maybe your team composition doesnt support you rogues playstyle. I would like to know more before giving a better reason. Also if i remember correctly melee rogues in DA2 where too strong. I wanted to make a archer but DW was just so superior i never did. I have had a few issue 2H war/rogue with classes but after a few experimental spec i learn what worked for me, for AI and skills that were situational that may work on target A but not B.

 

 

They have the same problem that you get in MMO's. Like SWTOR.

Here I am playing a SITH LORD and I am suppose to be a bad$ss and yet I have to play whackamole with low level enemies for ever and ever.

It is so BORING.....

SWTOR............... I agree with that said tho loved the story gameplay/combat was meh tho. That said i dont understand where your coming from with this statement because earlier:

 

 

Give me DA2 combat where I felt like I WAS THE HERO, where I was better than random scrub enemies and could wipe out a whole group of them. 

????

[szemyq]

Ok, it does not. The tooltip is wrong and my game (and others of people in twitch.tv) is bugged.

Want to make a bet? Let's do a video. Taunt a group of enemies with Warcry and use Payback Strike on them. If you knock them down you give me 1000 dollars, elsewhere I give you the same sum to you. Deal?

Please say yes so I can buy myself a new PC.

 

 

 

 

 

so let me do some cost accounting for you:

 

- watching these videos - 1 minute

- losing a bet - 1000 dollars

- the ability to grasp meaning from reading - priceless

[Xantium]

The best party set up I've had in nightmare starting out would be two tanks, a ranged rogue and a mage. I can solo enemies now at any level due to having my OP gear, but early game, two tanks helps out a lot, because they still do decent damage while holding more enemies from your squishy party members, there also isn't as much stress on one tank. There were a lot of times where I used one tank early in the game and they could go from full guard to dead in a second flat. 

[teks]

The best party set up I've had in nightmare starting out would be two tanks, a ranged rogue and a mage. I can solo enemies now at any level due to having my OP gear, but early game, two tanks helps out a lot, because they still do decent damage while holding more enemies from your squishy party members, there also isn't as much stress on one tank. There were a lot of times where I used one tank early in the game and they could go from full guard to dead in a second flat. 

I do the same thing with a rogue instead of a second tank. He does far more DPS, takes out key opponents who could cause a problem before the battle even begins, and actually ends up having the same effect as a second tank. Instead of soaking up damage he is locking down opponents, and distracting others, who will all end up wasting time moving to attack, since he'll be stealthed again by the time they move in. I mean who said they have to hit you, as long as they are wasting time its all the same.

 

It takes far more interaction from the player though. I only do it because I'm the rogue.

[Navek]

Sleep spell is a must. AoE, puts group to sleep and after upgrade, next attack is auto crit. 

True its like an AOE version of fighting dirty from Origin. This skill is probably overlooked. CD 20s last 20s. I Abuse this 2 death whenever possible

[Selea]

 

so let me do some cost accounting for you:

 

- watching these videos - 1 minute

- losing a bet - 1000 dollars

- the ability to grasp meaning from reading - priceless

 

LOL.

If I had the money I would actually give it to you just for a prize on digging your own grave by your smartassery.

You have come to me, wanting to attack me personally, and playing the card of the smartass to do so: you knew exactly that in a normal S&S gameplay PS knockdowns taunted enemies reliably because the "damaging" means "being hit" (it doesn't mean, as the term suggest, that you need to lose health, if an attack "damages" your guard then you are in the same way damaged, and simply put there's no way to not get hit at last once when you taunt enemies, either directly by them or by something else; naturally it can happen but in 9 cases out of 10 PS always knockback taunted enemies reliably) but since you wanted to absolutely attack me on something and you wanted to play the card of the smartass doing it then you insisted on the semantics of "damaged" and in the end you got buried by it.

I played along and made you do a video on the thing and you behaved exactly as I knew you would. You taunted and kited enemies after taunting them (because, you know, it makes perfect sense on normal gameplay to taunt normal enemies so they aggro on you and then waste the aggro kiting around, to then do PS after having wasted 3 seconds kiting; normal gameplay for sure) on an effort to demonstrate that you need to be "damaged" for PS to work, but that's NOT what you have proven, in fact. I never talked about not requiring to be hit, I talked about not requiring to be damaged, the term YOU used. If you did play normally then PS would have knocked down those taunted ghouls without you needing to get damaged (your term) since you have guard on, and you knew it perfectly and for this you kited them even when you have full guard (so you couldn't be damaged). This has proven without a doubt that you already knew in anticipation how things worked (i.e. that in normal S&S gameplay specifying the "damaged" part is almost completely irrelevant as it practically means "when you are hit" and there's no way to not get hit at all with a S&S build taunting enemies) and you just wanted to attack me personally by playing the smartass tactic. If you played normally in that video, without kiting with effort to go around the issue, then you would have knocked down those taunted ghouls. 

It's been amusing, but next time I suggest you to not underestimate who you are against because sometimes doing so can actually become your demise. In this instance your trying to play the smartass card in practice has demonstrated that your attempt was just a way to attack me personally using a total irrelevant exception in normal gameplay, just for the sake of having something to say.

So, next time you want to attack someone personally either:

1) Do so directly without trying to mask the thing as a debate on arguments exposed.

2) Find a better mask on which to hide behind because your attempt was exactly like going in a culinary forum and, since you don't like a certain person, insisting that s/he is wrong on a recipe because s/he doesn't explicitly state that microwaves are not to be used to put pets inside. Thank you for your great objection, without it nobody would have known. You don't usually taunt enemies on a S&S to then kite them around. So in normal gameplay the objection of "you need to be damaged" (given the game context where "damaged" means practically  "to be hit"; the only exception is when you have a barrier on, but anyway PS is a reliable way to knockdown enemies and everyone that plays S&S even for 10 minutes knows it) is completely and utterly irrelevant. Now, if you didn't know this then it would have been fine, but you knew it perfectly already (as it is demonstrated by the video) so it is quite obvious that it was just a silly masked attempt at attacking me personally. A shame that it fired back because semantically "damaged" doesn't mean "being hit" and so I was perfectly right anyway (redo the video, play normally, and you will not get damaged - since you have guard - but you will knockdown the ghouls anyway because naturally you will get hit at last once; I was right and you wrong). P.S: This btw is the case also for the Alexius fight where you get hit no matter what even if you stunlock him, at last by the aoes (but also this I guess you knew perfectly as the rest).

Now that your smartass attempt at a personal attack masked by an argument objection has failed miserably you can return to your cave, thanks.

[szemyq]

Payback strike causes a knockback if you have taken damage in the prior 5 secs OR to taunted enemies (so practically on everything because a pre-skyhold S&S build usually always uses Warcry).

You are a special snowflake, arent you?

It's not a "special strategy". It is normal gameplay of a S&S build as Shield Bash, Payback Strike on taunted enemies and Lunge & Slash from the back all cause knockdown. Given their low CD you can naturally (without doing anything special) lock Alexius to the ground for al the fight.

I would guess now is the time for you to deliver. Plz enlighten us and show us some normal sns gameplay, and lock alexius to the ground circling through the mentioned skills. I am eagerly waiting. If you dish it out you have to be able to take it. Seriously, get mature boy.

[EngineerEd]

Why does every thread about rogues end up in a pissing match???

 

Why does every pissing match on this forum have unbearably horrible spelling and grammar???

 

The world may never know.

[szemyq]

Ok salea you are right and i am wrong. My smartassery failed and yours succeeded. You can continue to be the king of this forum and i will crawl back to my cave. It is characteristically that you are fast on pointing your finger and calling out on other people, but hop into the role of the victim the moment someone gives contra. Anyway i knew it is a waste time trying to argue with you and already regret it.

To everyone else, sorry for spelling and grammar mistakes. I am not a native english speaker. I could write here in flawless german, but i doubt the majority of you would better understand what i am saying this way. Or is this a native speaking forum only? If i missed this part i am sorry, will leave this forum and not annoy you any longer.

Edit: @ engineered
The world is not america.

[Selea]

I would guess now is the time for you to deliver. Plz enlighten us and show us some normal sns gameplay,

 

So are you REALLY trying to insist that normal gameplay of a S&S is taunting normal enemies and then kiting around them? C'mon smartass, stop it already.
 

Plz enlighten us and show us some normal sns gameplay, and lock alexius to the ground circling through the mentioned skills. I am eagerly waiting. 

 

 

You can simply redo that video normally (i.e. without PURPOSELY kiting around after taunting enemies) and you will demonstrate already how "normal" gameplay with PS works. Normal gameplay simply means playing normally a role of a class and a S&S doesn't normally aggro normal enemies to then kite them around, isn't it?

As for Alexius, I repeat: there's no way to not get hit by him either by his attacks or the AOE, so you will NOT get damaged (because you have guard) but you can cycle PS + SB to knock him down repeatedly.

[Selea]

Ok salea you are right and i am wrong. My smartassery failed and yours succeeded. You can continue to be the king of this forum and i will crawl back to my cave. It is characteristically that you are fast on pointing your finger and calling out on other people, but hop into the role of the victim the moment someone gives contra. 

The victim at what? I am just pointing out that you wanted to attack me personally since you obviously don't like me and you tried to mask it with an argument, failing at it miserably.

Either grow some balls next time and attack me personally directly or find a better excuse on which to mask your personal attack as something relevant to the discussion.

If I was really playing the "victim" as you say, then I would have never suggested you to attack me directly instead next time.
 

[szemyq]

Anyway i have seen you arguing in various threads and you are by far the most unpolite person in this forum

I will leave this thread now. Have a good day.

[teks]

Any time you prove that someone is making an ass out of themselves. Its a personal attack. Espesially when they owe ya $1000 for it. This thread is amusing, but no longer useful.

[Selea]

Any time you prove that someone is making an ass out of themselves. Its a personal attack. Espesially when they owe ya $1000 for it.

 

If you re-play that "video" as a normal S&S instead than purposely kiting around taunted enemies so that you don't get hit (a thing you never do when you play a S&S) then I'm the one that is owed 1.000 dollars. Not that I cannot understand that for some people understanding that the "PS works only on damaged enemies" diatribe was just a masked attempt at a personal attack and that it had really nothing to do with it. It would be too good to be true if this wasn't the case. Intelligence is not surely a widespread virtue nowadays, especially on the web.

But naturally, guess what, can I make another bet? You are one of those that insist that the game is melee-unfriendly and DW rogues sucks, isn't it? If that's the case you are right, this thread is not more useful because you have been proven wrong over and over and over and over again, by videos and examples and the only card that remains to play is to try to pick up irrelevant side issues on the desperate attempt to have a point in there somewhere.

[teks]

But naturally, guess what, can I make another bet? You are one of those that insist that the game is melee-unfriendly and DW rogues sucks, isn't it? If that's the case you are right, this thread is not more useful because you have been proven wrong over and over and over and over again, by videos and examples and the only card that remains to play is to try to pick up irrelevant side issues on the desperate attempt to have a point in there somewhere.

Nope. I believe the opposite.

 

Your argument is completely unrelated to the subject at hand, and my stance on it has nothing to do with my opinion about melee and rogues.

Just calm down. If you believe these abilities knockdown, well, the burdon of proof is on you now. Your friend posted a video, and made his point. Can you actually demonstrate any contrary evidence of your own?

[Danadenassis]

Thanks for the thread, I worried it was something I missed or got completely wrong.

I must agree with most here. I wanted dagger wielding rogue to work, but with too little defenses it seems, even with guard on one of the daggers. I got for instance Sera using daggers and it is lots of revivals. My own rogue has to use bow for now.

On the other hand is this the first game that I've enjoyed playing warrior (though, not gone far yet).

 

I also think that enemies seems bit too durable. Would have been more fun with more crowds, perhaps some swarm scenarios, but with more slaughter.

[Selea]

Can you actually demonstrate any contrary evidence of your own?

 

If you did read something I said I already demonstrated it. Playing normally Payback Strike knockdown reliably enemies because the "damaging" in the tooltip includes practically every hit (i.e. if the hit "damages" your guard then it counts as the character being "damaged", it doesn't mean that you need to get wounded as it can seem reading it the first time) and so in normal S&S gameplay you always knockback taunted enemies with Payback Strike, you need to do nothing specific and it happens by itself (there's simply no way to not get hit with a S&S). If Payback Strike worked exactly as the term "damaged" implies (i.e. you need to lose health) then the thing would be different as guard would protect you most of the time from getting damaged actively and hence the pointing out the exception (that you need to get damaged) would have actually a meaning strategically speaking.

As it is, instead, it is almost completely irrelevant to point out the "damage" part since in normal gameplay as a S&S you will get hit by something and so all enemies you taunt gets reliably knocked down with PS. Playing as a S&S practically everytime you use PS on a taunted enemy you knock it down and this everybody that has played the class knows. 

Just like if I was mentioning that Clean Burn actively reduces cooldown on spells on a Rift Mage and someone got there and insisted I was spreading disinfo because I didn't explicitly mention that to do so you need to cast spells. What would it be if not a personal attack? Tell me how that's relevant as practically speaking it's normal Rift Mage gameplay that you spam spells and so what I said is perfectly accurate and there's no point whatsoever (apart from a personal attack) on pointing out the exception. If everytime you talk of specific build synergies you had to explain every nitpicking elsewhere you get accused of spreading disinfo then you would be better to simply just not share, as it would take a page every single time you try to mention even a simple thing.
 

[GuyNice]

Thanks for the thread, I worried it was something I missed or got completely wrong.

I must agree with most here. I wanted dagger wielding rogue to work, but with too little defenses it seems, even with guard on one of the daggers. I got for instance Sera using daggers and it is lots of revivals. My own rogue has to use bow for now.

On the other hand is this the first game that I've enjoyed playing warrior (though, not gone far yet).

 

I also think that enemies seems bit too durable. Would have been more fun with more crowds, perhaps some swarm scenarios, but with more slaughter.

The AI is pretty terrible at controlling DW rogues. Try having your rogue AI buddies using bows while you control DW yourself. Also if you read the thread you would see that many people consider rogues to be very powerful. Melee variants do have a learning curve though.

[teks]

If you did read something I said I already demonstrated it. Playing normally Payback Strike knockdown reliably enemies because the "damaging" in the tooltip includes practically every hit (i.e. if the hit "damages" your guard then it counts as the character being "damaged", it doesn't mean that you need to get wounded as it can seem reading it the first time) and so in normal S&S gameplay you always knockback taunted enemies with Payback Strike, you need to do nothing specific and it happens by itself (there's simply no way to not get hit with a S&S). If Payback Strike worked exactly as the term "damaged" implies (i.e. you need to lose health) then the thing would be different as guard would protect you most of the time from getting damaged actively and hence the pointing out the exception (that you need to get damaged) would have actually a meaning strategically speaking.

As it is, instead, it is almost completely irrelevant to point out the "damage" part since in normal gameplay as a S&S you will get hit by something and so all enemies you taunt gets reliably knocked down with PS. Playing as a S&S practically everytime you use PS on a taunted enemy you knock it down and this everybody that has played the class knows. 

Just like if I was mentioning that Clean Burn actively reduces cooldown on spells on a Rift Mage and someone got there and insisted I was spreading disinfo because I didn't explicitly mention that to do so you need to cast spells. What would it be if not a personal attack? Tell me how that's relevant as practically speaking it's normal Rift Mage gameplay that you spam spells and so what I said is perfectly accurate and there's no point whatsoever (apart from a personal attack) on pointing out the exception. If everytime you talk of specific build synergies you had to explain every nitpicking elsewhere you get accused of spreading disinfo then you would be better to simply just not share, as it would take a page every single time you try to mention even a simple thing.
 

I'm sorry I thought you were claiming these skills procced a knockdown effect as opposed to stagger like their tooltip says.

 

Ok I went back to make sure, yes, thats what your trying to say.

"Want to make a bet? Let's do a video. Taunt a group of enemies with Warcry and use Payback Strike on them. If you knock them down you give me 1000 dollars, elsewhere I give you the same sum to you. Deal?"

I just wanna make sure I understand these skills right. I saw in the videos that they didn't knockdown, but you are saying they do. Do they? Is there any evidence of this?

Do you think maybe your getting stagger and knockdown mixed up? It'd be cool if it did. That would be crazy strong with a twohander teammate.

[Xantium]

I do the same thing with a rogue instead of a second tank. He does far more DPS, takes out key opponents who could cause a problem before the battle even begins, and actually ends up having the same effect as a second tank. Instead of soaking up damage he is locking down opponents, and distracting others, who will all end up wasting time moving to attack, since he'll be stealthed again by the time they move in. I mean who said they have to hit you, as long as they are wasting time its all the same.

 

It takes far more interaction from the player though. I only do it because I'm the rogue.

That's understandable. CC is great on nightmare, but the only plus about this build is you don't have to have any interaction if you're the mage, other than an occasional barrier or such, just minimal interaction.

[Selea]

I'm sorry I thought you were claiming these skills procced a knockdown effect as opposed to stagger like their tooltip says.

 

Ok I went back to make sure, yes, thats what your trying to say.

"Want to make a bet? Let's do a video. Taunt a group of enemies with Warcry and use Payback Strike on them. If you knock them down you give me 1000 dollars, elsewhere I give you the same sum to you. Deal?"

I just wanna make sure I understand these skills right. I saw in the videos that they didn't knockdown, but you are saying they do. Do they? Is there any evidence of this?

Do you think maybe your getting stagger and knockdown mixed up? It'd be cool if it did. That would be crazy strong with a twohander teammate.

 

In the video Payback Strike doesn't knockdown because the author purposely avoided getting hit by choosing an encounter with no ranged attacks happening and kiting around after taunting the enemies before using Payback Strike (so as to be absolutely sure not get hit for 5 seconds prior to using it). If you play normally (i.e. you taunt and stand there, attacking, as you normally do) then you will reliably knockdown with PS because there's no way you will not get hit by either the enemies you are fighting directly or also some ranged attack (if ranged attackers are present) for a total of 5 seconds prior to using PS. There's simply almost no way for it to happen on normal S&S gameplay if you don't do it purposely (5 seconds in game is a lot of time when you are in the middle of melee surrounded/attacked by enemies with at least cone attacks).

Yes, it can happen that you use PS on a taunted enemy and you don't knockdown with it but it is a rare occurrence (the classical exception that confirms the rule) and in 9 out of 10 cases in normal gameplay of a warrior it will happen just because "damaged" simply means "being hit" in practice (you don't need to be damaged in the sense of losing health, also lowering your guard counts as being "damaged"). Simply put there's no way playing a warrior normally to not get hit by something for more than 5 seconds (either if for just a coincidence), so you will knockback all taunted enemies using Payback Strike in a reliable way. Just like playing a Rift Mage you will lower your spells CDs with Clean Burn in a reliable way and the only way for it to not happen is for you to purposely stop casting spells (even if you have the mana for it).

When you play as a S&S warrior practically everytime you use PS you will knockback taunted enemies. The only real instance it can not happen (and so you actively notice it) is when you attack a single enemy that has not AOE/cone attacks (depending your positioning) as that enemy is actively targeting another party member even if you taunted him. If he doesn't switch the attack to you (or damage you in other ways) then more than 5 seconds can pass after which either if taunted he will not be knocked down from you using PS.

As for "stagger vs. knockdown": in the tooltip it says "stun" but actually Payback Strike knockdowns the target instead. Also for Grappling Chain is the same thing. Now it remains to be seen if it is a tooltip error or a bug but I think it's the former just because a stun effect on something like Payback Strike that's so easy to proc (as I explained) would be really almost broken (you could practically make a strong combo - even by yourself, with Lunge and Slash - reliably out of it every 8 seconds on multiple targets as warrior attacks are in a cone). Knockback is a good CC effect for sure but it doesn't count as the target being "incapacitated" and so you cannot proc combos with it. Btw it can also be that it is indeed a bug and PS should indeed stun, but it is also a bug that the effect works outside of you getting damaged in the true sense of the word (i.e. losing health). It can certainly be that's the case. Actually it this would be the case PS would be extremely powerful on a Reaver build, for example.

[Peregrinus]

I think that being able to swap from melee to ranged would have resolved the whole problem.

[teks]

In the video Payback Strike doesn't knockdown because the author purposely avoided getting hit by choosing an encounter with no ranged attacks happening and kiting around after taunting the enemies before using PS (so as to be absolutely sure not get hit for 5 seconds prior to using it). If you play normally (i.e. you taunt and stand there, attacking, as you normally do) then you will reliably knockdown with PS because there's no way you will not get hit by either the enemies you are fighting directly or also some ranged attack (if ranged attackers are present) for a total of 5 seconds prior to using PS. There's simply almost no way for it to happen on normal S&S gameplay if you don't do it purposely (5 seconds in game is a lot of time when you are in the middle of melee surrounded/attacked by enemies with at least cone attacks).

Yes, it can happen that you use PS on a taunted enemy and you don't knockdown with it but it is a rare occurrence (the classical exception that confirms the rule) and in 9 out of 10 cases in normal gameplay of a warrior it will happen just because "damaged" simply means "being hit" in practice (you don't need to be damaged in the sense of losing health, also lowering your guard counts as being "damaged"). Simply put there's no way playing a warrior normally to not get hit by something for more than 5 seconds (either if for just a coincidence), so you will knockback all taunted enemies using Payback Strike in a reliable way. Just like playing a Rift Mage you will lower your spells CDs with Clean Burn in a reliable way and the only way for it to not happen is for you to purposely stop casting spells (even if you have the mana for it).

When you play as a S&S warrior practically everytime you use PS you will knockback taunted enemies. The only real instance it can not happen (and so you actively notice it) is when you attack a single enemy that has not AOE/cone attacks (depending your positioning) as that enemy is actively targeting another party member even if you taunted him. If he doesn't switch the attack to you (or damage you in other ways) then more than 5 seconds can pass after which either if taunted he will not be knocked down from you using PS.

I can't really follow your walls of text.
http://www.fraps.com/
This is a link to a recording program which you can use to domonstrate these skills doing knockdown. I have only ever seen the skill stagger. I really feel you are getting the two mixed up, and if you can provide some evidence I would appreciate it.

Or at least explain where this knockdown effect comes from. Is it part of another skill? Is it a bug? has there been discussions about this?

 

I've even googled this, and found little on the subject one person siad it can knock down that I found, most say it stuns and counters knockdown.

[Selea]

I can't really follow your walls of text.
http://www.fraps.com/
This is a link to a recording program which you can use to domonstrate these skills doing knockdown. I have only ever seen the skill stagger. I really feel you are getting the two mixed up, and if you can provide some evidence I would appreciate it.

Or at least explain where this knockdown effect comes from. Is it part of another skill? Is it a bug? has there been discussions about this?

 

Payback Strike knockdowns when it procs, it doesn't stagger (i.e. stuns). It is a well known tooltip error (as the one in Grappling Chain that has the same exact type of mistake) I fear you are exchanging it for another skill or maybe the enemy you remember you stunned with it got stunned from another effect or had an animation for knockdown similar to the one of stun (wraiths for example are so; the knockdown on them is very similar to the stun effect, also Rage Demons).

I don't understand what's so difficult in reading what others write (it's also usually education to do so). Anyway, the short (really short) summary is: PS+ (you need the upgrade for it to happen) knockdowns taunted (by you) enemies if you are or were "damaged" (in the most ample sense of the term in the game context, meaning also if your guard gets damaged - and this is from where all the diatribe of before arose, since in practical terms this means "all the time") up to 5 seconds prior to using the skill (i.e. if you use PS on a taunted enemy and you got damaged 4 seconds prior then you will knockdown, but not if you got damaged 6 seconds before using it).

You can easily test it by yourself with Cassandra or Blackwall without me having to create a video for a simple things as this, isn't it? Just travel to Fallow Mire, enter the water with one of the two, get hit by a skeleton a couple of times then taunt and use PS on it. You will see that the skeleton will get knocked down and not staggered by PS. Same as it happens with Grappling Chain, either if the tooltip also there says that you stun wiht the upgrade.

[teks]

if its well-known please lead me to a discussion about it. I haven't been able to find any. There has to be something other then your word.