733 réponses à ce sujet

[Selea]

if its well-known please lead me to a discussion about it. I haven't been able to find any. There has to be something other then your word.

 

You don't need to take my word for it, simply make a test (for example in the Fallow Mire) and see it by yourself. It's not so difficult, isn't it?

 

It does the same effect Grappling Chain or Shield Bash does, knocking down an enemy (naturally when it works). Either the animation for staggering is the same as knocking down an enemy or the upgrade of PS definitely doesn't stun but knockdowns.

I played a full playthrough with a S&S warrior so either I got completely mad and saw a knockback instead of a stagger all the time I used the skill and it procced, or my game has become mad instead (a strange bug), or the tooltip is mistaken. It can perfectly be the first or the second, but given the status of the tooltips in the game I believe it is more probable the third.

Try it and let me know. I would actually prefer (apart the figure of the idiot) that it would stun instead of knocking back. Still if that's the case I have to understand why the thing happened in my playthrough (and it happened all the time consistently when I used PS on taunted enemies).

[teks]

I'll take the other guys word. He backed up his stuff. I just wanted to see if you had anything to back up your own words before I decided to do so.

[Selea]

I'll take the other guys word. He backed up his stuff. I just wanted to see if you had anything to back up your own words before I decided to do so.

 

The other guy never opposed the knockdown part. He just arose the exception that I was spreading disinformation because I didn't explicitly mention that you need to be damaged for it to happen.

Have you read a single thing of what I wrote, ffs? It's not so much to ask from another person you talk with to have him listen to what you say, isn't it? I don't think the thing is different just because we are not talking but writing. I explained everything to the detail in my replies to you of before and now you come up with a thing that proves without a doubt you actually didn't read a single word of what I posted.

You don't either know what he said and yet you even pretended to know that I wasn't correct and to back him up. Way to go, really.

Btw I don't care nor for your "backup" nor for anyone's else. Kindergarten has passed by a lot of time here and I don't need another person to agree with me to boost low self-esteem. Actually I usually prefer when people don't agree with me because if it happens often then it almost surely means that what you say is a banality or not worth the time you waste to say it. And in fact, also in this case, I was not wrong to think so. Losing the "support" of a person that doesn't either read what's being said before deciding whom to support? Call me mad but It's not surely a great loss in my book. I'm pretty happy you support the other guy instead. Feel free to support all the people that don't agree with me from now onwards.

[Selea]

Anyway, can we return on topic please?

Not that I'm not one of the people that helped the thread to go off-topic, but I hope to at last be one of those that will also help the same thread to return on track at this point.

So please if you don't like me or what I say or how I say it it's perfectly fine, but you can easily open another thread to talk about it instead.

[Hollerboller]

The other guy never opposed the knockdown part. He just arose the exception that I was spreading disinformation because I didn't explicitly mention that you need to be damaged for it to happen.

Have you read a single thing of what I wrote, ffs? It's not so much to ask from another person you talk with to have him listen to what you say, isn't it? I don't think the thing is different just because we are not talking but writing. I explained everything to the detail in my replies to you of before and now you come up with a thing that proves without a doubt you actually didn't read a single word of what I posted.

You don't either know what he said and yet you even pretended to know that I wasn't correct and to back him up. Way to go, really.

Btw I don't care nor for your "backup" nor for anyone else. Kindergarten has passed by a lot of time here and I don't need another person to agree with me to boost low self-esteem. Actually I usually prefer when people don't agree with me because if it happens often then it almost surely means that what you say is a banality or not worth the time you waste to say it. And in fact, also in this case, I was not wrong to think so. Losing the "support" of a person that doesn't either read what's being said before deciding whom to support? Call me mad but It's not surely a great loss in my book. I'm pretty happy you support the other guy instead. Feel free to support all the people that don't agree with me from now onwards.

You are correct sir. I play SnS Warrior and PS does knockdown enemies when they are taunted. Even without upgrade. 

 

Sorry for my bad english

[szemyq]

Since it looks like a lot of confusion arose about payback strike let me clarify what it does exactly.
PS without the upgrade will damage foes in a 360 radius around you and if you have been attacked during the last 5 seconds it will deal more damage and also knock them down. It does not matter if the enemy is taunted or not.
With the upgrade it will damage foes in a 360 radius around you and if you have been attacked during the last 5 seconds it will deal more damage, knock them down and if the enemy is taunted it will also stun them.
To judge this easily, you get a buff that looks exactly like the icon for PS if you are in the state when PS will deal more damage and knock affected enemies down. You do not have to loose health to get the buff, so if you get attacked during shieldwall or walking fortress you will get the buff. But if you do not have the buff, PS will not knock enemies down regardless if they are taunted or not.
Hope this helps.

[brazen_nl]

I'll take the other guys word. He backed up his stuff. I just wanted to see if you had anything to back up your own words before I decided to do so.

 

Funny, it knocks down for me, too. Even without video proof! Gotta tell you, though, it took me ages to test this. I was really hesitant about testing it, too, since I'd rather put my trust in a random party in a random discussion on the Internet than testing it myself.

[Off Topic]

I didnt have read the tread completely, i just want to tell my experince.

My first playtrough was knight enchanter and i thought it was easy. now i am playing an assassin and the game gets a joke. DW Rouge is the most devastating Class imo. Sure in the beginning it is hard. But thats the same with most classes.

when i got around lvl 16.and some decent daggers, i laughed about ke. Just ignore the left side of the dagger tree. its useless. With KE it took me always about 10 minutes to slay a dragon and it was boring. With rouge i can crush them in 2 minutes without my companions dying and its a lot more fun.

[BubbleDncr]

I didnt have read the tread completely, i just want to tell my experince.

My first playtrough was knight enchanter and i thought it was easy. now i am playing an assassin and the game gets a joke. DW Rouge is the most devastating Class imo. Sure in the beginning it is hard. But thats the same with most classes.

when i got around lvl 16.and some decent daggers, i laughed about ke. Just ignore the left side of the dagger tree. its useless. With KE it took me always about 10 minutes to slay a dragon and it was boring. With rouge i can crush them in 2 minutes without my companions dying and its a lot more fun.

 

Yea...I've been playing my DW rogue on normal cos I heard it was difficult to play as. But now I'm level 15, crafted myself a good dagger, and killed a dragon in 3 minutes. Usually took me about 15-20 on my rift mage. 

 

I think I'm stupid or something, but I keep seeing people say that using Flask of Fire before Thousand Cuts is OP? I'm not understanding the relation between the two...

[GreyJedi727]

I'm sure someones said this, but try a Qunari, they have the 25% melee resistance going for them, then make sure you add in evasive abilities when you can (I may be thinking of Archers Leaping Shot actually...)

Bah, I don't know.

[Archie591]

I had a lot of trouble with my Single damage Rogue at first. Flanking wasn't easy, single target damage, even with a lot of bonuses didn't do as much damage as I hoped and I simply got killed very fast without contributing much myself.

 

Then I did a 180 and instead of going for the assassin type route I went for a duelist type. AOE damage daggers, all stats into passive abilities with the main usable activities being throwing knives and flank attack. This allows me to soften the enemy from afar - the knives do a ton of damage, then immediately jump to them and stab them in the back - also stealthing yourself infinitely in the process if you took the upgrade. At this point I have no aggro and have a good flanking position to attack anyone. I can then autoattack freely and soon throw more knives and flank attack someone again, once more stealthing infinitely.

 

Later I went for the tempest specialization and boy - things went much smoother then.

 

Fire Potion with uprade + throwing knives. 5 seconds of no cooldown knife ownage. Craft your daggers to have the 10% chance of hidden blades and you'll be guaranteed a proc of that as-well. Massive damage with 0 stamina cost. Add the "adds 3 guard on hit" proc on your second dagger and you'll have a ton of extra health if someone tries to fight back.

 

Later on, being a duelist with the crafted daggers, frost potion and lighting potion and all tempest uprades is ridiculously OP.

 

The lighting potion is so good because you can actually disrupt rifts and resurrect your party members while it ticks. It's basically a free revival and rift disruptor if needed. Awesome.

 

 

But yeah - being a single target assassin type Rogue never worked for me. It seemed like so much work to properly flank and sneak around in all the chaos and even with good single target abilities, I never felt I did enough damage to anyone. No consistent output compared to a brawler duelist.

[Navasha]

DW rogue starts out very hard compared to everything else.   However, by the time you get to level 10/11 and you get your specialization... its becomes just about as easy as every other class.

[Matth85]

DW rogue starts out very hard compared to everything else.

 

No? Far from it. A DW rogue got the easiest time at the earliest level. They lose out to Archers at about level 6-7 until specialization is gained. At that point it's more about gear than anything. If anything; mages got it the hardest at the early levels, followed by warriors who gets nothing. 

 

Rogues requires the highest amount of, erm, "skill" to play. Gear makes it easier. However, they are not worse than anybody early levels. In terms of efficiency, a dw rogue is on top the whole game. Hardest to play, highest risk of dying, but most efficient and highest damage. Almost seem fair.

[Wulfsten]

Okay so having played Dual Wield Rogue for about 40 hours now on Nightmare, and at about level 15, I can say the following:

 

Melee Rogue is very tough if you don't have a specific plan. If you're just bumming around looking for flank damage you're not going to do well. You need a specific strategy to avoid damage and to deal damage.

 

The setup I've got now is as follows:

 

- Tempest specialisation

- Pretty good daggers, nothing amazing. One made of Stormheart, the other of Serault Glass, both with Critical Chance improving grips (my crit chance is at 40%)

- Knives skill from the Poison/Traps tree.

 

The plan here is to activate Flask of Fire as soon as combat begins. This allows you to spam Knives 4-5 times, doing fairly massive damage on 2-3 enemies and sundering them. The rest of your party (I have a 2H Warrior and a Sword and Board tank) charges in while you're spamming your knives and draws aggro. When your Flask runs out you just start circling the edge of the melee, looking for a flank to start attacking, preferably with spinning blades. If you have Ice Flask use that as well to pretty much keep you safe. Once Flask of Fire cools down you just do it again.

 

Very simple plan, doesn't require optimised builds or equipment beyond just common sense, and requires a decent amount of situational awareness, but nothing insane.

 

I'm currently having no trouble at all with same-level popcorn fights, I'm able to deal with all challenging/boss fights with proactive use of potions and tonics, and am regularly mopping up over-leveled (level 17) random encounters too.

 

The reason Dual Wield Rogue seems more difficult is that you need to have a plan for dealing with enemy attacks before you can succeed, whereas an archer just stays out of combat entirely. DW Rogue needs to either use Flask of Ice or Stealth or Evasion to avoid attacks, which requires more forethought and active engagement in fights. I tried Archer rogue and it was pretty boring, honestly. It's still okay, because you still have to choose targets intelligently, try to get to higher ground, or keep distance to get your Long Shot bonus active, but you just feel so removed from the action.

 

Dual Wield Rogue is absolutely viable, and actually quite effective, as long as you have a strategy. There are others that work besides the above one. I'm pretty sure an Assassin with Hidden Blades (a ridiculously powerful skill) would also be effective.

[UniformGreyColor]

TL:DR.

 

I'm playing a DW rogue and haven't gotten to Skyhold yet and I'm Lvl 11 (yes, on NM). What I'v found works really well is just as your party goes into combat, go into stealth and flack a mage or archer with SS then follow that up with TF then FA to go back into stealth to wait for CD and stamina to get restored. At this point most enemies will be going after your tank if you have WC and/or challenge. Basically the key to surviving is to not get hit at all, and to hit em hard and fast. Also if you're having trouble on nightmare wait to continue the main quest until you are at the top of the recommended levels on your pc.

I usually have Viv in my party who is an Ice/spirit mage so Winters grasp+ and Twin Fangs does a ton of damage; with the previous Stealth plus Shadow Strike you'll have at the very least 1 mage/archer dead before taking hardly any damage. As far as AoE goes, there are moments of opportunity that can really play in your favor. For the Envy encounter, I just kept my distance from it until I could rattle off my combo and used dispel as soon as I saw it start to go for its AoE. Then hit em hard and away into the shadows I go. Rinse repeat. The trick to staying alive with DW is just that, prioritize staying alive. One last thing, gear. I always try to have really good gear through crafting.

[roadrunnerNM]

Well, I've definitely picked up some tips reading this thread. But my problem with DW rogue is that the positioning is so funky ... I go into stealth, move around to flank or go behind the enemy. I find myself automatically hitting pause (which I re-mapped to Space bar) to judge if I'm the right distance for Shadow Strike; if yes, trigger SS, unpause ... and enemy moves away or I've misjudged distance, and SS fails ... Ugh. It's painful. I tried respeccing to archer, which is a lot easier, but doesn't really fit my character concept (Carta bad@ss).

[zeypher]

A question, Does the tricks of trade passive from artificers boost all damage by 10%? or just status effects?

[Gaz83]

Will two daggers with +3 guard on hit work?

 

Or - like with sword and shield - do the masterworks have to be different? (IE +2 and +3)

[zeypher]

same tier masterworks do not stack, different tiers stack. SO +3 guard on one and +5 of another works

[UniformGreyColor]

Well, I've definitely picked up some tips reading this thread. But my problem with DW rogue is that the positioning is so funky ... I go into stealth, move around to flank or go behind the enemy. I find myself automatically hitting pause (which I re-mapped to Space bar) to judge if I'm the right distance for Shadow Strike; if yes, trigger SS, unpause ... and enemy moves away or I've misjudged distance, and SS fails ... Ugh. It's painful. I tried respeccing to archer, which is a lot easier, but doesn't really fit my character concept (Carta bad@ss).

 

I had a ton of problems with this as well. I found using SS in real time works way better in terms of actually hitting your target as opposed to tac cam trying to do it. Your char will even bridge the gap sometimes if you're just a bit further than right next to them. Flank Attack is also really good at closing the distance between you and an enemy; you will most likely (not always) be right behind them after doing so, so you can go strait to SS after that. Having upgrades on both SS and FA, you can deal lots of damage without taking much while using stealth to move around the battlefield. Add Twin Fangs and Deathblow and you a real enemy finisher. I also would try to grab the passive that reduces you flanking threat by 100% so you can just keep auto attacking the NPCs until, you'r ready for Deathblow; then that enemy is about done and if not a few auto attacks while their on the ground and that will put them 6ft under for sure.

[squidney2k1]

On my Dagger Rogue nightmare playthrough, I had a helluva time until I got to Skyhold & my sspecialization.

There are a LOT of tough fights early since you simply don't have enough points to invest in your Passives in order to fully utilize stealth & survivability. Plenty of times I had to kite around while burning regen poitions or micro-manage way more than I was used to. First playthrough too where I actually frequently used Pitch Potions which help a TON.

But now I'm an Assassin and just finished Here Lies the Abyss and a couple of Dragons without any trouble.

I was surprised that it is proving to be more difficult than my 2H Warrior nightmare run.

[Nebel Slayn]

Well, I certainlly haven't read all 24 pages, so I apologize if what I'm about to say has been said before. That being said, I think DW Rogue is a lot of fun and I'm so happy I chose it as my first class. Early on, it was a bit of a challenge. However, after learning the mechanics of the game and some enemy behavior things got a lot easier. I use two mages and a tank as my companions and I just constantly keep up a barrier on Cassandra and I. With this, the game feels like easy mode even though I play on nightmare. Being an assassin, going in and out of stealth constantly, and killing enemies left and right is super satisfying for me. I love micromanaging everything and then just ripping enemies apart with my rogue once I've issued commands to everyone else.  Sometimes my ranged get hit though, and I have to use one of my two barriers on my two mages. Then, I have them both use fade step in the direction of my tank, and I have my tank come pick up the enemies atking my mages...In the meantime, If I have to, I'll use evade with my rogue to get away from incoming damage while my mage gets barrier ready. As others have said, if you get hit as a rogue, you can get killed in 1-3 hits easily. I realized this early on and started thinking "Well, how can I NOT get hit then?" And, there ya have it, this is the plan I came up with. I normally don't have to use evade much because I have  + guard on hit on my rogue, or I have a barrier ready...but it's still nice to have it on my skillbar in case of emergencies. Eventually, I'll have +guard on hit on all my classes and then the game will really be broken haha. 

P.S. I read some people complaining about Rogues being squishy. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but, in my opinion, rogues should be squishy. You're supposed to be playing a high-risk/high-reward character.

[Mimicry]

 I just completed a solo nightmare playthrough with a melee rogue, here are my impressions:

 

 The most important thing you can do before playing a melee rogue is to accept the fact that unlike previous Dragon Age games you will NOT be an untouchable evasion machine. Playing a melee rogue in Inquisition is about finesse and patience, not brute force. That being said, melee rogues do suffer from some issues that need to be addressed - however it's not nearly as bad as some of the comments in this thread make it out to be. 

 

 The two things that need fixing are:

 1. Melee hit boxes on enemies - there are several issues that fall into this category - being unable to hit knocked down enemies; desire demons being able to move to locations (usually slopes of some kind) where they cannot be hit, etc.

 2. Low mobility - Evade is a terrible skill, easily the worst mobility skill in the game when compared with Mage/Warrior ones.

 

 Stealth can be buggy, yes, but that's definitely made up for by the fact that unlike previous Dragon Age games, it no longer has any levels, and for the low, low cost of one measly attribute point you can stealth past most any enemy in the game.

 

 Beyond that it's all a matter of preparation and expectation. As mentioned previously if you think your melee rogue will be an invincible tornado of death, you will mostly be disappointed. But if you're willing to use tactics and bring unseen death to your foes, this is the class for you!

[Moritsuna]

Has anyone calculated what the highest damage skill to spam with flask of fire is? I can't tell if it's twin fangs, spinning blades, deathblow, or shadow strike (with mercy killing)

[ImDedicatedToMyApologies]

I have a melee rogue (Sera) in my party but I don't play as her. And it ends up enemies focus on my player character and Cass, and she does not die very often. maybe u guys should try letting AI control your melee rogue and see how it works.