733 réponses à ce sujet

[Inanna Athanasia]

I soooooooooooo agree with this. In Origins I beefed  up my Rogue's to be lock picking warriors. DA:2 was kind of a disappointment until I got the use of stuff like disappearing in front to stab in back and reverse grip and such. In this game, it completely sucks to be a Rogue. I hate the fighting and like OP, since you can not level points on attributes, it is even worse. I played all classes through the beginning and found the only one who really delivered for me was weapon and shield ( I realize this is due to my play style, but still). I am already irked and annoyed. I hate not being to open locks myself and since I can not stand Varric and I either have to chose a horrible fighting Rogue or deal with that annoying Dwarf even longer then I am forced too until I get another replacement. I was SO hyped for this game and so far it is just a huge disappointment. No matter how beautiful it is on xbox one, the fighting and other things make it hard to keep wanting to play.

[lastpawn]

i think you all are just looking at it wrong. If you're going to play on nightmare and NOT constantly micro and defend your main damage dealer something would be wrong with the game IMO.

 

But this is patently false. Just roll an archer.

[Shelled]

so I found out that you can't stealth in tactical mode while fighting or your guy just auto-attacks and breaks his stealth, making all the stealth abilities useless.

You can bypass this fundamental game design flaw if you use stealth or that teleporting backstab move that stealths you but you need to move your character away immediately afterwards in tactical mode or they will just break stealth. 

You can't que another ability up that relies on stealth immediately either, they will auto-attack instead right before using the ability. The only way to do it is use the ability that puts you into a stealth state then move the character away, then use the ability that requires stealth in tactical mode.

Epic failure bioware. I can't understand how the hell this tactical cam got past testing. It is absolutely god awful.

[ian823]

I play duel-weried rogue on nightmare too. Never have the problem,and is so fun play, I may need to tactical control a few tough fights, but most fights, I play like action game. I deal the highest damage in the party, My main skill are deathblow, flank-attack, and stealth. Usually, I will let cassandra charge first and stay sheild-wall. while I sneak to their ranged or mage with varric and solas follow my attack. while their healthy below 50%, flank-attack to become stealth, then deathblow, pretty much 1 shot magic and range, if not, just another 2 or hits. But will usually take another deathblow to kill tough enemy. the cd is only 8 sec. So my first 8 sec, I can do 450% plus stealth attack bonus. after 8 sec, I use flank attack again to become stealth and deathblow. If you die a lot with aoe, you should get evade, that will save you a lot.  

[Blessed Silence]

I find my DW rogue extremely slow and sloppy feeling compared to them in DA:O and DA2.

 

I can't stand it and will be making another character.  Good luck to those who enjoy them though,

[FuuTon]

How about Ranged Rogue? I've been playing archer on Nightmare and so far it's pretty tough. Have to abuse the AI's stupidity for some really hard fights.

[Zeekhan]

Just wanted to pop in here and say that I'm finding Melee Rogues to be really strong with the right set up.

 

The trick is 2xMasterwork Dual-Blade daggers with +Guard on Hit, or +Heal on kill. The attack animation changes entirely - your rogue will be making huge sweeping strikes hitting everything around him while generating guard and getting all the flanking damage goodness. It is _really_ strong.

[skokie29]

I'm about a lvl 8 DW Human Rogue playing on Hard. Started on Nightmare, was making it through the game, but switched to Hard because I wasn't sure what I was doing.

 

When it comes to mages, arches - they all get one shotted. Tactics usually include going stealth, walking up to either a mage or toughest enemy in game, performing backstrike.

 

Varric then does monster damage with long shot (name? the one that does more damage the further away he is) and my tank pulling aggro. I then back stab main all day.

 

Using the move where you appear behind the enemy is great way to close distance. And being able to vanish whenever in combat without being detected, especailly so early in the game, is a bit OP.

 

All that being said, I do find the Rogue a bit lacking. I sometimes feel he is the one in the party contributing the least. I'm not sure, really. At this point it has a lot to do with his weapons. I do wish I could duel wield swords ...

 

Arguments about the Rogue being mainly used to attack mages and not the tanks is incorrect. In DA:O, I would OWN everyone with my DW Rogue. And I beat it on Nightmare start to finish + DLC.

 

In the end, a little disapointed with Rogue DW so far, but I'm sticking with it cause I like doing it from behind =D

[Lethys1]

There are repec items you can buy to change over to an Archer.

DA: I does seem like DA 2 in that the best party tends to be 1 tank + 3 ranged characters. 2 archers + 1 mage for more DPS or 2 mages + 1 archer for more Barrier and crowd control.

 

That is no answer.  I want to play as a melee rogue, except I also want to do it in a way that is feasible.  I have 2 archers already and it just feels like a waste to make myself a third.  I didn't want to be an archer.  I would've been a mage if I could actually respec and re-class, but that is not an option for lore and other reasons.

[Gel214th]

Just wanted to pop in here and say that I'm finding Melee Rogues to be really strong with the right set up.

 

The trick is 2xMasterwork Dual-Blade daggers with +Guard on Hit, or +Heal on kill. The attack animation changes entirely - your rogue will be making huge sweeping strikes hitting everything around him while generating guard and getting all the flanking damage goodness. It is _really_ strong.

Huh? You can get +guard for a Rogue? Haven't seen that yet. 

[Lethys1]

i started on nightmare to, then i realized i had no idea hat i was doing.

 

Then i tried Hard, and it occurred to me i still don't know the game well enough to play that mode.

 

The game has only been out for three days in the US, no one, none of us players that just purchased it are experts at it yet.

 

Give yourself a few months play time, start on normal understand the game more thoroughly before attempting nightmare.

 

just my 2 cents

 

I'm not an expert at this exact game specifically, but I've been playing it for many hours and the OP is absolutely correct so far.  I don't really want to re-roll so I keep trudging on, but the fact is that this game is the most imbalanced towards a particular spec for a single player game I've played in many years, and I am only assuming a worse one exists because I can't think of it.

 

Practically no health, little ability to avoid damage, stealth and dodge are both ineffective at avoiding hits, the DPS isn't high enough to justify this, it's too hard to hit enemies in flank (especially on tac cam, which automatically puts you in front of enemies always and misses skills repeatedly), you get hit from behind by massive AoE's with zero guard, and the problems continue.

 

Why isn't there an "EVADE" to take the place of guard and barrier?  That should be our defense.  Don't like healing?  Fine.  Then replace it with something better.  I really regret being a rogue but I'm so far into the game I don't want to start over at this point.  I kept going assuming it would get better and it's not.

[viperidae]

why are multiple people here talking about how "bad" evade is? together with fade step/combat roll it's probably the best ability in the game, ultra-low cooldown and if you don't have the reaction times of a sloth you can easily dodge things with it.

[Anelyn77]

Playing on hard DW rogue and I learnt on the move. 

 

1st) Disable autocast of any AoE damage abilities / CC from your party (supposing you play with FF on)

2nd) Never initiate, do a setup with your tank / mage / archer etc and flank hit the most important target

3rd) You killed 1st target, now you back up and restealth, you don't jump to next enemy, take a moment to examine the battlefield, the cooldowns etc

 

Yes bears are tough, but you can manually move away from their AoE attack since it has a long wind up. The charges from dogs and other enemies are easily prevented by good positioning.

 

Berserkers and other bosses with cleave / 360 attacks are not meant to be hugged non stop by a rogue, there are windows of opportunity when you go in, deliver a big chunk of damage, then jump back out. I just killed the boss in the mire to release the prisoners and he was immune to taunts / CC, carrying a big 2h, and all the jazz

 

I just ignored him with my main force (archer mage and DW rogue) had my tank go in and play, while I picked his adds apart with rest of the group, then finally focused on him when Cas knocked him down. He went from 80% to 10% in that very window of time so the damage a DW is putting out is insane (lvl 12 inq, lvl 11 party when I did this mission, mainly crafted gear). 2k+ Crits are common if you build her for that at this level, so 10k hp melts very fast

 

You need to always stay focused and keep track of what your party is doing and what enemy is doing, you can't just go behind something and press buttons.

 

I find it very challenging, rewarding and thrilling to play a DW rogue in DAI and I love the experience

[specter7237]

Playing on hard DW rogue and I learnt on the move. 

 

1st) Disable autocast of any AoE damage abilities / CC from your party (supposing you play with FF on)

2nd) Never initiate, do a setup with your tank / mage / archer etc and flank hit the most important target

3rd) You killed 1st target, now you back up and restealth, you don't jump to next enemy, take a moment to examine the battlefield, the cooldowns etc

 

Yes bears are tough, but you can manually move away from their AoE attack since it has a long wind up. The charges from dogs and other enemies are easily prevented by good positioning.

 

Berserkers and other bosses with cleave / 360 attacks are not meant to be hugged non stop by a rogue, there are windows of opportunity when you go in, deliver a big chunk of damage, then jump back out. I just killed the boss in the mire to release the prisoners and he was immune to taunts / CC, carrying a big 2h, and all the jazz

 

I just ignored him with my main force (archer mage and DW rogue) had my tank go in and play, while I picked his adds apart with rest of the group, then finally focused on him when Cas knocked him down. He went from 80% to 10% in that very window of time so the damage a DW is putting out is insane (lvl 12 inq, lvl 11 party when I did this mission, mainly crafted gear). 2k+ Crits are common if you build her for that at this level, so 10k hp melts very fast

 

You need to always stay focused and keep track of what your party is doing and what enemy is doing, you can't just go behind something and press buttons.

 

I find it very challenging, rewarding and thrilling to play a DW rogue in DAI and I love the experience

 

Can you please share your skill tree build with us?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

If people want to play as a melee character with the highest DPS, be a Knight Enchanter. 

[WillieStyle]

Playing on hard DW rogue and I learnt on the move. 

 

1st) Disable autocast of any AoE damage abilities / CC from your party (supposing you play with FF on)

2nd) Never initiate, do a setup with your tank / mage / archer etc and flank hit the most important target

3rd) You killed 1st target, now you back up and restealth, you don't jump to next enemy, take a moment to examine the battlefield, the cooldowns etc

 

Yes bears are tough, but you can manually move away from their AoE attack since it has a long wind up. The charges from dogs and other enemies are easily prevented by good positioning.

 

Berserkers and other bosses with cleave / 360 attacks are not meant to be hugged non stop by a rogue, there are windows of opportunity when you go in, deliver a big chunk of damage, then jump back out. I just killed the boss in the mire to release the prisoners and he was immune to taunts / CC, carrying a big 2h, and all the jazz

 

I just ignored him with my main force (archer mage and DW rogue) had my tank go in and play, while I picked his adds apart with rest of the group, then finally focused on him when Cas knocked him down. He went from 80% to 10% in that very window of time so the damage a DW is putting out is insane (lvl 12 inq, lvl 11 party when I did this mission, mainly crafted gear). 2k+ Crits are common if you build her for that at this level, so 10k hp melts very fast

 

You need to always stay focused and keep track of what your party is doing and what enemy is doing, you can't just go behind something and press buttons.

 

I find it very challenging, rewarding and thrilling to play a DW rogue in DAI and I love the experience

 

^This.  So much this.

[WillieStyle]

If people want to play as a melee character with the highest DPS, be a Knight Enchanter. 

 

Absolutely nothing in the game matches the dps of a Tempest DD rogue.  Nothing!

Mark of the rift x 4 plus Thousand cuts in 5 seconds?  Don't mind if I do.

[Gel214th]

Absolutely nothing in the game matches the dps of a Tempest DD rogue.  Nothing!

Mark of the rift x 4 plus Thousand cuts in 5 seconds?  Don't mind if I do.

 

Can you go Tempest with the Archer as well?

[brazen_nl]

Can you go Tempest with the Archer as well?

 

Sure thing.

 

Spoiler

[mirto]

I'm playing a DW Rogue, I think it's a lot of fun. I like how my character can't just go in Rambo style, I do it with Cassandra at times and it's boring. After reading this thread though, I'm worried about being 1-hit later on by higher level enemies. I'm level 6 currently at it's going pretty good on hard difficulty. I don't mind micro-managing, but dying everytime an enemy swings a huge sword would completely ruin the fun I am currenty having. I'll keep this thread in mind and think about restarting as a warrior :/

[nelly21]

My experience has been very different.

 

I found the DW rogue to be very good. You do MASSIVE burst damage coupled with the ability to remove yourself from the fight almost instantly. I believe the problem may be that people are expecting to play the class in the same way as other games. You shouldn't simply stand behind an enemy holding down the auto attack button and using an ability whenever it cools down. Sneak up behind someone and hit them then move on. You should be moving around, killing off weakened enemies quickly and burst damaging the bigger enemies to help your tank. 

 

I definitely understand the complaint with AI melee rogues. They're a mess. 

[bdm13]

Just wanted to pop in here and say that I'm finding Melee Rogues to be really strong with the right set up.

 

The trick is 2xMasterwork Dual-Blade daggers with +Guard on Hit, or +Heal on kill. The attack animation changes entirely - your rogue will be making huge sweeping strikes hitting everything around him while generating guard and getting all the flanking damage goodness. It is _really_ strong.

 

Completely agree with this. Guard on hit IS the key to running a DW rogue on nightmare. Because of your fast attack speed, you build guard at an insane rate. You are nearly unkillable if you play it correctly. 

 

Also, I am about 25 hours into using the tempest spec on nightmare, and it is making the game fairly easy. You can almost always have a flask running and that makes a huge difference:

 

1. With flask of frost, you are near invincible

2. With flask of lightning, the dilation is so ridiculous you can attack without taking nearly any damage

3. With flask of fire, you can continuously use flank, which effectively keeps you in stealth/behind an enemy. 

 

It is worth noting that prior to opening up the tempest spec and getting some guard on hit, my rogue was VERY weak on NM, but that changed almost immediately. I think the DW rogue is a lot like vanguard in ME2, early on they were weak and squishy, but once you found the correct upgrades and got used to the style, they could clear a room at a ridiculous pace. 

[specter7237]

Can people who are enjoying them please post some of your Rogue builds???

[StingingVelvet]

 

I'm about 23 hours in with dual-dagger rogue on nightmare.

 

2. You have to be behind enemies to make melee rogue viable, but they almost want you to play this game like an action game because enemies don't stand in one spot like they do in origins when your tank is holding agro, they move around constantly, and the only way to play nightmare is with the tactical cam on, and with A.I completely off. So you constantly need to adjust sometimes to moving enemies to get behind them which equals a total loss of DPS every time you're not attacking but adjusting your position to the enemies to get behind them properly. Seems like warrior would be straight better at this point.

 

 

This is a big issues with the game in general, and why you can't just pretend it's still Origins style tactical combat like you could with DA2. Originally I tried managing my whole team like I did before but the moving and such just make it impossible.

 

That said, playing it as an action game with my dual-wield rogue, I find her highly effective. I kind of bounce around from one enemy to the next getting a few backstabs in and then a powerful attack. I also love sneaking up behind every massive armored enemy and sundering their armor with stealth strike. It makes me feel more involved and tactical with the battle than playing a warrior would.

[RandomHomey]

I, too, have found that the DW rogue on nightmare difficulty is a very viable combination. However, it took a lot of time and making many mistakes to figure out a viable approach.

 

To those of you who are having bad experiences, instead of using your bad experiences as a reason to wrongly cry fowl, accept that you are likely doing a lot of things wrong and accept the challenge of reviewing everything about what you think should be the way things work and critically think about them.

 

Lower the difficulty level until you learn the ropes.

 

I really never understand why so many people have to have guides to play a game that is designed to let the experience of discovery be a big part of the allure within the journey.