733 réponses à ce sujet

[chriseggroll]

I don't play on nightmare, but I've always micromanaged my rogue, that's why I play a Rogue.  The AI cannot begin to play a rogue properly because it involves lots of positioning and timing.  For me essentials so far are the Flanking attack from Dual Daggers and the Shadow Strike from Subterfuge - you can use the two together for an awesome combo.  Assassin tree is great too - Hidden Blades is simply brutal and a lot of the passives in there make everything better.  I wish Spinning Blades wasn't so far down the Dual Daggers tree because it is great.  I might respec so I can go just a tad into Subterfuge->all in assassin and the rest in Dual Daggers or at least enough to grab that skill - it's like Hidden Blades but less damage per hit.  

 

Anyone else find that in tactical mode abilities miss a lot unless you wait until you're very close to an enemy?  Sortof frustrating, as I'm assuming it's not gonna use it until I'm within range~

[lastpawn]

I've been playing Rogue a bit more and while there are issues it's not altogether bad.

 

Having Evade helps A LOT. But that's like 1/8 of your abilities right there... something archers don't have to worry about.

 

2 Mages + Tank also helps A LOT. But that means no Varric, no Cole, no Sera. Kinda sucks if you like em.

 

Basic strategy:

Unless it's a normal enemy, I DO NOT stand behind them auto-attacking. I wait for the right moment to pull off Flank + Stealth + whatever (preferably into a combo), then get out of there. When I do screw up positioning, a barrier is usually there to save my ass (got 2 mages helping with that).

 

This is all before any substantial dips into the various specializations, and absolutely no FF. So take it with a grain of salt.

 

My sense is that Assassin spec would make the above playstyle better without significantly changing it, while Tempest would actually significantly alter how the Rogue plays. I'll actually probably try out Assassin first.

[Ashevajak]

I've noticed a certain quality of life improvement for my Inquisitor since recruiting Vivienne, I must admit.

 

Still got the hurt put on me pretty bad in the Therinfal Redoubt boss fight, but I survived it, first time around, minimal tactical pausing.  That definitely would not have happened with Varric in the party.

 

Also looking into these daggers which increase guard, mentioned earlier in the thread.  I'm still fairly early on in the game (level 8), but I can see a combination of those, healing weapons/equipment and two mages making things much, much easier.

 

Maybe the DW rogue is one of those classes that starts out hard, but ends up awesome.  You know, like mages are supposed to be.

[quebra]

Pretty much this, and if there are no ranged characters left to DPS on, my rogue is supposed to sit there and not do anything even though cassandra has agro against melee? 

That presumption is insanely dumb, especially when you can't even equip a bow in combat.

... and there is the question I've been wondering!

 

So, is there a quick weapons switch in combat between daggers and bows?  I seem to remeber that in DAO.  If not then this game is crippled.

[Terroriza99]

I play on nightmare and it's way too easy even with melee rogue. You might be doing a wrong combo of moves. I start with flank attack which causing me to go into cloak after the attack, then I shadow strike them. after shadow strike i will get a couple more hits in then either hit someone from the flank while they aggro a warrior, cast sleeping dust then hit some more and cloak out. or just cloak and go wait a second for timers to cool down.

[Shelled]

... and there is the question I've been wondering!

 

So, is there a quick weapons switch in combat between daggers and bows?  I seem to remeber that in DAO.  If not then this game is crippled.

I've tried to switch weapons in combat, it doesn't let you open the inventory screen when in combat and there is no weapon switching hotkey that I saw anywhere.

Definitely a downgrade in terms of design.

[ironhorse384]

... and there is the question I've been wondering!

 

So, is there a quick weapons switch in combat between daggers and bows?  I seem to remeber that in DAO.  If not then this game is crippled.

Nope, in fact, your inventory is locked during combat. You can't save, level, or change weapons and armor during a combat situation.

[lastpawn]

... and there is the question I've been wondering!

 

So, is there a quick weapons switch in combat between daggers and bows?  I seem to remeber that in DAO.  If not then this game is crippled.

 

There were no more buttons on controllers for this so we don't have the option.

[hexaligned]

I have had great success with my DW rogue.  They aren't meant to be front line fighters, hit and run attacks are what they are all about.  Stealthing around the battlefield and quickly taking out enemy archers and mages are what they excel at.  Waiting until an enemy has been disabled in some way, and then opening up out of stealth with combos that do stupid amounts of damage is pretty satisfying as well.  That being said: they ARE far less useful against bosses, but I think the spec itself is fine over all.

[ironhorse384]

I have had great success with my DW rogue.  They aren't meant to be front line fighters, hit and run attacks are what they are all about.  Stealthing around the battlefield and quickly taking out enemy archers and mages are what they excel at.  Waiting until an enemy has been disabled in some way, and then opening up out of stealth with combos that do stupid amounts of damage is pretty satisfying as well.  That being said: they ARE far less useful against bosses, but I think the spec itself is fine over all.

I agree , I'm having a lot more fun with my dw rogue now that I turned off his ai and found out, in another thread, that you can double right click the ground and he'll disengage his target while in tactical mode. Besides, someone has to protect the mages while the tank is otherwise indisposed.

[quebra]

I've tried to switch weapons in combat, it doesn't let you open the inventory screen when in combat and there is no weapon switching hotkey that I saw anywhere.

Definitely a downgrade in terms of design.

I thought I was being thicker than usual... You have to be kidding me?!?!?  In any @#*&^ Game you almost always have at least a secondary weapon slot you can swap between while in combat.

 

HUGE FAIL!!!!  FAAAAIIILLLLL!!!!

 

In recent news, BIOWARE was completely chewed up and shat out by EA.     Seriously, can we just get a remastered DAO, this is a big downgrade.

[Inanna Athanasia]

I soooooooooooo agree with this. In Origins I beefed  up my Rogue's to be lock picking warriors. DA:2 was kind of a disappointment until I got the use of stuff like disappearing in front to stab in back and reverse grip and such. In this game, it completely sucks to be a Rogue. I hate the fighting and like OP, since you can not level points on attributes, it is even worse. I played all classes through the beginning and found the only one who really delivered for me was weapon and shield ( I realize this is due to my play style, but still). I am already irked and annoyed. I hate not being to open locks myself and since I can not stand Varric and I either have to chose a horrible fighting Rogue or deal with that annoying Dwarf even longer then I am forced too until I get another replacement. I was SO hyped for this game and so far it is just a huge disappointment. No matter how beautiful it is on xbox one, the fighting and other things make it hard to keep wanting to play.

 

So I finished my 1st play through of main story. I have to say I did become somewhat happier with the Rogue. Once I got to level 10ish I had a few abilities I really liked and found a play style that really worked for me. I am still not happy with it and feel the Rogue was a huge let down, but it works. Once I got a feel for it it was better, however for my higher level of difficultly games I will probably go Warrior. I am not sure how I pay as a Rogue could handle harder enemies.

[BroBear Berbil]

I've tried to switch weapons in combat, it doesn't let you open the inventory screen when in combat and there is no weapon switching hotkey that I saw anywhere.

Definitely a downgrade in terms of design.

 

Yeah they chucked the weapon switching in DA2 but kept the ability to manually go into your inventory and change equipment. In Inquisition, however, they got rid of both, which is....astounding to me. I didn't realize I couldn't switch weapons until after I encountered a bear while both of my mages had ice staves equipped.

[Mikell]

More I read stuff like this, the more I feel like the devs want you to switch characters and play in real time more often. In other words, tac cam is for a basic battle start set up, and for the occasional situations where you need to cancel everything, perk everyone away and regroup. Otherwise, if you want a particular character to do something complicated (that would have been arrangeable with tactics and queued orders in Origins), take control of them and do it.

That's the action aspect they're kind of forcing on you. I get that some people don't like it and it's not what they wanted, but it doesn't make sense to expect a revamp of a very complex system like that of DAO to be pushed for the mainstream. I think it's great when companies try and find a middle ground that appeals to a wide range of players. Maybe it worked this time, maybe it didn't. I think with a hand this big it will take a while, months maybe, before we can really determine if the whole battle system is just a failure or if it just isn't appealing to the tactical crowd that doesn't want to be pushed into real time button/mouse clicking fights.

[brazen_nl]

In recent news, BIOWARE was completely chewed up and shat out by EA.     

 

Link, please?

[Tyrith]

I think assassin is better, especially when you get 9 seconds of nothing but pure critical hits when in stealth, might be better than tempest. You also get knockout bomb which seems extremely important in nightmare.

You also get hidden blades which you can use with cloak of shadows / so thats 6 hits at 300% extra damage which are also critical hits.

Tempest only has 2 things that seem good, slow time and thousand cuts. Nothing that helps your party in terms of survival though. Flask of frost seems like a death sentence for your rogue.

 

You know you can take elixir of frost without the upgrade that taunts everything right? so you take 85% less damage for 8 seconds and freeze anything close to you aswell, i literally have no idea how that could be a death sentence at all.

 

Also Hidden blades looks amazingly good when you look at it i agree and my initial plan was to go assassin however at best Hidden blades in my current gear (my gear isn't amazing) does about 900 damage per crit so over 6 hits thats around 5.4k damage, deathblow however at or below 50% of an enemies health hits twice and currently crits for around 3-3.5k per hit and going upto 4.5k+ at lower health, also with Elixir of fire you can get off 4-5 deathblows in 8 seconds.which at minimum is around 28k damage in 8 seconds.

 

Playing around with my companions and testing out the damage they can do (pretty sure the inquisitor would do more just based on stats) the only class that comes close and possibly beats Tempest rogue on pure burst damage is Reaver and that requires you to spam Dragon-Rage which is going to end up with you dying

 

And that is purely talking about damage dealing, with elixir of frost, elixir of lightning and stealth a Tempest rogue can pick off hard to kill targets before they even act and control large battles very easily.

 

For example 2hand warrior type enemies have been mentioned alot in this thread and i can tell you i have not had a single problem with them since i unlocked Tempest, just open with elixir of lightning and burn them down before they can even react, you can quite literally run into a group of enemies are Tempest pop elixir of lightning pick off a few enemies pop stealth into elixir of fire and a group of 5-6 level 20 enemies will be dead by the time the elixir runs out.

 

Again this is mainly because of Deathblow being so strong for example a normal melee crit for me on a sundered enemy is around 300 damage, for some reason even though the base damage with the upgrade states it does 300% + 3% for every 1% health missing, instead of lets say a 1% health enemy taking a Deathblow doing 597% weapon damage which in my current gear would do about 1.8k the 3% multiplies the 300% somehow to the point where at 50% health my Deathblow is doing around 1000% weapon damage (3k crits vs 300 crits for normal melee) and because when an enemy is below 50% health Deathblow hits twice that actually puts Deathblows actual weapon damage at 2000%+ maybe even hitting 3000% when the enemy is low enough health.

 

I am currently trying to get a decent crit build that also has a good amount of armour pen for the dragons because if i can negate the armour they have I'm pretty sure i can kill a 200k health nightmare difficulty dragon in under a minute with a double tempest group.

[RamonNZ]

There have been some excellent posts on how to use a DW rogue and on nightmare difficulty. Thanks for all that have answered this and talked about the Tempest spec - it helps the rest of us out, and gives me something to look forward to.

 

It appears that the rogue can become pretty godly once Tempest is applied. And worse case scenario people could always use a bow rogue until later on if they don't want to adapt and take the time to learn on how to use him correctly.

 

As for those who took this thread to complain about the game being terrible - really? after like 1-6 days people have already decided that and haven't even taken the time to learn how to play it properly, or those who decide to play on nightmare from day 1 and say it's too hard? Nightmare is meant to be very hard, where a bunch of weakling enemies can demolish you if you make a mistake. That's a good thing. Better nightmare be too hard than too easy.

 

DAI is definitely not DAO remade, but if you take the time to learn it it seems to be enjoyable in it's own way, and a good game.

[stterrius]

like some people already said.  DW rogue in Nightmare is viable.  The problem for me its just too much micromanagement to be worth it. 

A DW rogue weakness is the Big Meele characters. Dragons, 2H Warriors and other people like that.  Usually its best just to avoid those and go for the squishy ones (Like a assassin would).  

Archers, mages and other small meeles have no chances against your stunlock (Stealth last kill, dagger First skill).   Start with the punch in his cheek, go again with 2 daggers in his back, put him to sleep and repeat until he is dead, and the best its super easy to make it viable, at lv6-8 you already have your core build and cand just work around it. 

And he will not go for you even once as hits from the back have -100% agro!

 

Against big meeles you need to stay away from them and hit and run.  

I gived up a DW Rogue against the dragon.  The dragon itself demands a lot of micro and while the rogue worked against most i just dont wanted to micro that much anymore, but its fun. 

 

 

[wicked cool]

As a dwarf im torn between dual wield or warrior. How" tanky" can i be as a rogue dual wield. Ive already started one playthrough as a mage so archer barely interests me

[yankblan]

I am playing a Rogue on Nightmare and it is a nightmare. A nightmare of micromanaging the battle, which is what i want in a supremely hard difficulty setting. I switched to archer from DW because I found that while DW was very effective when used as an always in motion fighter it was a level of micromanagement that was too high for me. I plan to switch down to Hard difficulty once I "beat the game" as I feel that will be my default setting.
 
It has been experience (limited experience as the game is just out) that not all difficulty levels are equal with both playstyles. Tactical seems to be a MUST for nightmare and a chore for casual. Action mode seems to be the go to mode for the game on the lower difficulties because it is fast and the game isn't very punishing damage wise and the tac cam just slows the game down.
 
I like that difficulty level actually require different tactics. I know that rogues are often used as the "mindless" dps roll but on harder difficulties they just can't be mindless. They require as much if not more attention to detail then tanks. I applaud Bioware for putting mechanics that require DPS to be tactical to survive.
 
My archer rogue requires mobility and tactics but it is less demanding than the DW rogue. Moving my ranged characters to safetly is easier so on nightmare i took the easy way out as its already micromanagement intensive i wanted to reduce the work load on myself.
 
I think is it a sign of success that nightmare is so demanding on the player as far as I can tell DW rogue isn't "broken" its just more demanding than people expected on nightmare.

Of all classes, tank require the less. Just queue guard/threat generators all day. Support mages & rogues always require more involvement because of AoE, CC and buffs.

[yankblan]

How does this help the rest of your party, or if you are not controlling the Dual Wield Rogue? What happens to them?

 

That is so easy to answer;  I never switch to another character without tacticam, because I'm too fidgety/never sure of the order or the number of presses I need to say, switch from me to Blackwall.

 

So, if you want to switch to your mage to cast a specific spell, go in tacticam, order your rogue to step back 5-10 feet, then switch to your mage, and from there do whatever.

 

I suggest use mage spell, switch back to character, then go live.  If you advance the action from another character, your rogue could very well jump back up into the bear's grasp.

[yankblan]

There were no more buttons on controllers for this so we don't have the option.

 

Nope, nothing to do with it.  In previous games you used the radial menu to switch weapon sets.

 

Same wrong assumption made on why you can't have more than 8 spells for PC; in previous games consoles were limited to 6, while PC had a bunch.

[Gigamantis]

That's a shame.  I've played through the prologue as a Dagger Rogue and actually found it very effective, but if everything is dishing out tons of 360 AoE damage later on then flanking is useless. 

 

I don't think any RPG has managed to balance squishy melee DPS classes effectively.  They're always just suicide soldiers that would be far more effectively replaced by Ranged DPS; even if you figure out a way to make them technically viable it's usually not worth it. 

[Shelled]

I found out that shadow strike doesn't work properly. If you're in combat and use flank attack to go into stealth or even use stealth, and then try to use shadow strike, it doesn't actually work and the skill doesn't even activate. This has happened to me a lot. It makes the entire stealth tree useless...

[Khevar]

I found out that shadow strike doesn't work properly. If you're in combat and use flank attack to go into stealth or even use stealth, and then try to use shadow strike, it doesn't actually work and the skill doesn't even activate. This has happened to me a lot. It makes the entire stealth tree useless...

 

I have a theory on this.  I tend to micro my DW Rogue in the tac cam, which has auto-attack enabled.

 

I think that the moment Flank Attack or Steath is finished, the basic attack is started.  Even though I immediately pause and click on the Shadow Strike ability, I think the "basic attack" is queued and will execute anyway, canceling stealth and preventing the Shadow Strike ability from firing.

 

I've had better results by dropping out of Tactical mode to prevent the auto attack.

 

Unfortunately, this can have a side effect of Shadow Strike not triggering because the enemy has moved out of range.

 

YMMV

 

I'm more frustrated by triggering Flank Attack on a sloped surface (e.g. hill) and watch my Rogue overshoot the target by about 8 billion meters and have to shlep all the way back to the fight.