733 réponses à ce sujet

[Andreas Amell]

For me the biggest problem is not having the switch weapons feature. I have to prepare beforehand from using a bow or using dual weapons.

 

My other observations are this:

 

1. Dual weapons style looks weak then too flashy after level 14. I thought they were going to bring that down a bit after the 2nd game.

2. I miss setting traps like in Origins. When I'm fighting around corridors I need those traps to hamper a rush of enemies.

3. The armor features for the rogues still don't impress me. I'll have to acquire more schematics and runes to play with it.

4. Being invisible is still the best trick.

[DV-01]

Played a Subterfuge Rogue to start then respeced full Double Daggers and haven't looked back. I still get stealth from Skirmisher and staying alive with Parry+ tree is more satisfiying then Shadow Strike.  I have access to the combat skills earlier, aggressive combat is actually more enjoyable then stealthing every two skills, Shadow Strike's animation doesn't make me feel rewarded for all that effort to get a stealth kill. Could feel more like a backstab causing stagger then a flip in the air.

Crossing into Sabotage for Stamina Passive and the Hook & Tackle - Poisons perhaps later, but only after my Tempest tree is fleshed out.

 

Assassin Spec - Knockout Bomb overlaps with Knockout Powder / Hidden Blades should feel more like Thousand Cuts - first hand / Mark of Death is very cool but I'm not sacrificing the rest of my tree for one skill and some good stealth passives.  Cole has that build, I use him for Assassin. Double Dagger / Sabo / Tempest

 

Interesting how my initial build keeps changing when I met the reality of how fun and rewarding the specs actually are in game instead of on paper.

Started with Mage to Necro to Rogue to Stealth to Assassin to Sabo to Tempest

[Loki_344]

I found out that shadow strike doesn't work properly. If you're in combat and use flank attack to go into stealth or even use stealth, and then try to use shadow strike, it doesn't actually work and the skill doesn't even activate. This has happened to me a lot. It makes the entire stealth tree useless...

 

It's worked for me. I get the appropriate damage bonus and everything. How do you mean this exactly?

 

As far as the topic goes I've been using a tempest specced with flank attack+, shadow strike+, punisher +, flask of fire +, flask of lightning +, and guard building dual-blades and have destroyed everything I've come across on hard difficulty. I think some of you are being a little hasty with your 'awful!" judgements.

[ironhorse384]

I'm getting some pretty huge damage hitting incapacitated enemies with shadow strike from behind.

[chriseggroll]

spinning blades while stealthed is like a poor man's hidden blades, can make a good combo with flanking strike if hidden blades is on cooldown.  You need Knife in the Shadows from the Assassin tree to make it worthwhile.  Same for Hidden Blades - never use not stealthed!

[lastpawn]

Again this is mainly because of Deathblow being so strong for example a normal melee crit for me on a sundered enemy is around 300 damage, for some reason even though the base damage with the upgrade states it does 300% + 3% for every 1% health missing, instead of lets say a 1% health enemy taking a Deathblow doing 597% weapon damage which in my current gear would do about 1.8k the 3% multiplies the 300% somehow to the point where at 50% health my Deathblow is doing around 1000% weapon damage (3k crits vs 300 crits for normal melee) and because when an enemy is below 50% health Deathblow hits twice that actually puts Deathblows actual weapon damage at 2000%+ maybe even hitting 3000% when the enemy is low enough health.

 

Wow! I didn't play around with Deathblow because, on paper, it does NOT seem like it should be doing this much damage. In fact, it should be doing close to what Twin Fangs does. I wonder what's going on?

 

One possibility is that the upgrade acts as a multiplier. Another is that it's a bug

[lastpawn]

I'm more frustrated by triggering Flank Attack on a sloped surface (e.g. hill) and watch my Rogue overshoot the target by about 8 billion meters and have to shlep all the way back to the fight.

 

Yeah this goes from funny to frustrating pretty quick. An easily replicable bug that was apparently too hard to fix before the game got out.

[FiveThreeTen]

I'm playing as a mage right now, but Cole is definitely the weakest of my party member (palying on Hard with FF on). I will still try a DW rogue for my next PT. Get the feeling that playstyle needs more monitoring.

[draken-heart]

I have been reading this thread, and what is everyone having trouble with DW rogue doing? Are you simply trying to stand there and hit, or are you playing the mobility game? If it is the former, I do not think that that is the right way to play. It is simple for all classes, I think:

• Warrior: I would rather take Warcry than an entire tree, mainly for the Guard. Without Guard, the warrior is just a corpse.
• Mage: Need barrier to be successful. Without it, party is gone.
• Rogue: Even archery is about mobility and positioning. always moving is the rogues defense.

[TobyJake]

More I read stuff like this, the more I feel like the devs want you to switch characters and play in real time more often. In other words, tac cam is for a basic battle start set up, and for the occasional situations where you need to cancel everything, perk everyone away and regroup. Otherwise, if you want a particular character to do something complicated (that would have been arrangeable with tactics and queued orders in Origins), take control of them and do it.

That's the action aspect they're kind of forcing on you. I get that some people don't like it and it's not what they wanted, but it doesn't make sense to expect a revamp of a very complex system like that of DAO to be pushed for the mainstream. I think it's great when companies try and find a middle ground that appeals to a wide range of players. Maybe it worked this time, maybe it didn't. I think with a hand this big it will take a while, months maybe, before we can really determine if the whole battle system is just a failure or if it just isn't appealing to the tactical crowd that doesn't want to be pushed into real time button/mouse clicking fights.

Whatever happened to options? Give us the option or at least some info why this has been done. Being limited because a controller doesn't have enough buttons is stupid. I have a Razer KB and Mouse for F* sake

[Sriep]

Wow! I didn't play around with Deathblow because, on paper, it does NOT seem like it should be doing this much damage. In fact, it should be doing close to what Twin Fangs does. I wonder what's going on?

 

 

It is about the same except for the +3% damage per 1% of health lost. So at the minum health loss of 50% you are getting an extra 150% damage. In other words it does around twice the damage as twin blades depending on the enemies health. Great for finishing off big guys.

 

Edit: Ops of cource there are two twin blades, which evens out at around 67% damage taken so far. Err...

[EnderZak]

Not sure if part of the issue is PC controls versus console. But I started as DW rogue then decided to respec to archer.  I was spending all my time pausing the game, trying to re-position my rogue so he wasn't slashing the air. My issue with archer is I keep shooting arrows at everything as I mistakenly click the mouse to move.  20 years of clicking a mouse to move is hard to unlearn. 

[Shelled]

I have a theory on this.  I tend to micro my DW Rogue in the tac cam, which has auto-attack enabled.

 

I think that the moment Flank Attack or Steath is finished, the basic attack is started.  Even though I immediately pause and click on the Shadow Strike ability, I think the "basic attack" is queued and will execute anyway, canceling stealth and preventing the Shadow Strike ability from firing.

 

I've had better results by dropping out of Tactical mode to prevent the auto attack.

 

Unfortunately, this can have a side effect of Shadow Strike not triggering because the enemy has moved out of range.

 

YMMV

 

I'm more frustrated by triggering Flank Attack on a sloped surface (e.g. hill) and watch my Rogue overshoot the target by about 8 billion meters and have to shlep all the way back to the fight.

its not just that problem. I move my rogue away after using a ability that puts me in stealth and try to shadow strike and it just doesn't work. It seems like it only works if combat hasn't actually started. Such a disappointment and this skill isn't supposed to work like this in the first place.

Just ......... ugh.

Also yes, I've flung myself 20 feet forward on slopes using flank attack lmfao...

[DemGeth]

Played a Subterfuge Rogue to start then respeced full Double Daggers and haven't looked back. I still get stealth from Skirmisher and staying alive with Parry+ tree is more satisfiying then Shadow Strike.  I have access to the combat skills earlier, aggressive combat is actually more enjoyable then stealthing every two skills, Shadow Strike's animation doesn't make me feel rewarded for all that effort to get a stealth kill. Could feel more like a backstab causing stagger then a flip in the air.

Crossing into Sabotage for Stamina Passive and the Hook & Tackle - Poisons perhaps later, but only after my Tempest tree is fleshed out.

 

Assassin Spec - Knockout Bomb overlaps with Knockout Powder / Hidden Blades should feel more like Thousand Cuts - first hand / Mark of Death is very cool but I'm not sacrificing the rest of my tree for one skill and some good stealth passives.  Cole has that build, I use him for Assassin. Double Dagger / Sabo / Tempest

 

Interesting how my initial build keeps changing when I met the reality of how fun and rewarding the specs actually are in game instead of on paper.

Started with Mage to Necro to Rogue to Stealth to Assassin to Sabo to Tempest

This.

 

Though I'm not on nightmare yet how I play is steath big hit evade couple shots carefully to build up bar rinse and repeat.

 

Usually the two handers are easy to avoid they swing pretty slow and telegraph it once you get the rhythm down.  The rogues you go up against though....nasty.

[Lucrece]

For me what ruins dagger rogue is:

 

1) Terrain. I fight against the terrain and my party members bodyblocking me from getting on the mob's back more than I actually fight enemies. Missing twin fangs constantly, especially from stealth because enemies appear to move faster than you is infuriating.

 

So you spend all this time just trying to position behind a target to do damage and sunder armor, while the mages are happily nuking away and so are the warriors. Whatever big number you see on the screen is misleading because of how much time you wasted getting to that point.

 

Flanking Strike fails so much, terrain can completely screw it over and sometimes instead of teleporting behind a mob it just puts you in front of it with a single strike.

 

2) Poor AoE and group utility. Sleep Powder is pretty damn bad compared to freeze or paralyze

 

3) Some of the strongest enemies put Guard on themselves, which makes them immune to your sunder and poison.

 

If a demon puts on guard I might as well AFK until cassandra shield bashes all of it off. I am completely useless during that time.

 

Playing my rogue I just feel gimped.

[Magma_Axis]

Hmm, i think this will be like a Vanguard situation in ME2. At launch, many condemn the class as useless in higher difficulties, but after a while it become the best class to clear Insanity

[Blackstork]

I am having no problems and i actually think it is fun to play dw rogue quiz.

 

1. Specializations. DW Rogues are late bloomers, and noone can compare his dps and sustainability with full tempest.

2. There also alot of utility and spammable detonators which working amazingly well with effects you party provide.

3. Certain skills are meant to beused with certain skills, if you plan well you do quite impressive damage with low risk. 

4. They do better damage overall above archers, and the thing that you need just barrier to apply stuff and do some nice skill combos . You have your tank with guard, and barriers go for your dw. And even while being late bloomer, Melee rogue could provide much more frequent impact detonators at start of the game.

 

I playing on Nightmare with FF on, and i do not have any problems. I also like to take on non-melee ranged enemy characters right when i start to warcry and taunt with my tank. 

[Terroriza99]

More I read stuff like this, the more I feel like the devs want you to switch characters and play in real time more often. In other words, tac cam is for a basic battle start set up, and for the occasional situations where you need to cancel everything, perk everyone away and regroup. Otherwise, if you want a particular character to do something complicated (that would have been arrangeable with tactics and queued orders in Origins), take control of them and do it.

That's the action aspect they're kind of forcing on you. I get that some people don't like it and it's not what they wanted, but it doesn't make sense to expect a revamp of a very complex system like that of DAO to be pushed for the mainstream. I think it's great when companies try and find a middle ground that appeals to a wide range of players. Maybe it worked this time, maybe it didn't. I think with a hand this big it will take a while, months maybe, before we can really determine if the whole battle system is just a failure or if it just isn't appealing to the tactical crowd that doesn't want to be pushed into real time button/mouse clicking fights.

 

This is the main thing I don't like about DAI. It's still probably the best game this year, dark souls 2 is close. By appealing to everyone else they made it way to easy and a bit boring for the real players. I don't see whats so complicated to have both systems.. Maybe the have the detailed tactics like in DAO built into this one, but you would not see it unless you were playing in nightmare. So many companies do this with games, they have something that works well and then change it too much. It does not seem overly complicated to have both ways applied with a simple option checked on or off. There could be a setting for Basic / Advanced tactic with a description. Dark Souls 2 did the same thing, they made the game ridiculously easy to appeal to more people and It was just too easy for a familiar player. I have about 55hrs so far in DAI and starting to lose interest, I haven't even made it that far really. I'm only lvl 12, but being so easy just really makes it like a crazy long story combat is just no real challenge and AI is basically half retarded. still a great game in the end, but it could of been the greatest.

[BananaBoy]

Not sure if this has been suggested yet, but craft a dagger or piece of armour with a masterwork slot that gives guard on hit. It might give DW rogues better survival. I have a dagger with that on DW Cole and he doesn't die anymore (although I have to micromanage him at times to have him leap away from an AoE or something).

[Nathonaws]

My opinion for any RPG game has always been that ranged is easier to play, simply because you can both avoid, and deal damage much easier. And that seems to be the case for Inquisition as well. This is why I'm currently running a triple mage + my melee rogue party, and I'm seriously considering respeccing to archer and picking up a tank. And yeah, the fact that you can't get high dodge anymore makes rogues a lot less viable, especially when things start hitting really hard.

 

But probably the biggest reason why melee in general is not that great is because the AI is very poor - it is almost impossible to get your melee characters to move out of dangerous stuff before it happens. The Redcliffe fight comes to mind, where the boss had an aoe thing that was impossible to dodge because the AI / Tactical cam is so poorly designed. I actually had 3 melee for that fight which made it very frustrating, and made me immediately switch to 3 ranged afterwards.

[Suhiira]

As a dwarf im torn between dual wield or warrior. How" tanky" can i be as a rogue dual wield.

 

Not at all vs AoE type opponents.

So-so vs everything else.

[Jackal19851111]

Use evade rather then stealth when you have aggro, jump around like a grasshopper. As for stealth/flanking, I found it best to exercise patience, wait until your enemies are committed before you attack (simple hammer + anvil tactics). They move around alot sure, thats why you wait till their stationery (or knocked down) - then use Twin Fangs on them to knock them down again + Hidden blades and they are pretty much finished. I am playing on hard though, not nightmare.

 

As for the enemies who use AOE, you should notice that only certain attacks of theirs are fully 360, their backs are still vulnerable and these enemies are alot slower then others. Like any other enemy you just have to watch its movements.

[gay_wardens]

I couldn't disagree more. I just poured dual wielding into Sera and literally was out of gold so I had to give her the shitty daggers the merchant sells in Haven, and I'm absolutely tearing everything up with Twin Fangs/Winters Grasp. Just wait until I get some REAL daggers.

 

My favorite playthrough of DA2 was a dual rogue with that shadow skill tree with decoy and gives stealth from smoke bombs which meant I had two different stealth abilities. 

 

I haven't fought a two handed warrior with her yet, but if it's really a problem I'll just use mages and shield bash to open up a window for Sera to attack.